alexkdd99 wrote: »

Ahnastashia wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Ahnastashia wrote: »

Can you name one really good trading guild that does not charge a weekly fee or doesn't have a you must sell X amount weekly requirement to stay in it?

I can name several on PC NA.

Simply put, many people do like the guild trader store system.

But, don't take my word for it ... do a search in the forums on Auction House threads.

Or, better yet, join a guild and find out for yourself.

I am in a guild. Several guilds. I was wondering when the white knights would come out in force. All I'm suggesting is for ZOS to actually allow they player base a choice. See how long the guild trader store option would really last if there was an actual option for something else.

All the people who love the guild trader system could have a blast doing what they love.. and for the people who would opt to use an central auction house.. we would be happy too. Is there some reason that would not be a best of both worlds?

Wouldn't work as auction house would just drop all prices incredibly fast. As someone else pointed out, just search forum for the countless threads of people debating this.

Auction house is incredibly easy to be manipulated. Yes the traders can be also but it is a whole lot harder to do. I would not count on traders going anywhere anytime soon.

This idea that it take forever to find things is untrue. If you are looking for anything that is not some obscure item you can easily find it in any main hub. Now if you are looking for a cheaper price then that is on you.

Also if you cant pay the 5k a week then you really didn't have anything worth selling to begin with.

As you pointed out, guild trader stores can be manipulated as well. It is a little more time consuming, but hey, I don't doubt that there are people who probably do it anyway. For example, take Joe, the guild trader baron, who routinely visits all the "best spot" trader stores and buys all the goodies he sees for as low of a price as he can. He then takes all his goodies, and resells them at his trader (and his guild store is in the best spot because he has mega money), for much more than what he bought them for. Basically, it's the same concept of auction house barons but in ESO, you have the added PITA of X requirement to be in whatever guild to be able to participate in the system. True, people can sell in zone chat, but as mentioned before, that is not really a great option.

Once again, the idea is that ZOS allow both systems to see what the player base really wants and utilizes. I personally don't see them doing that, which is unfortunate, but as someone else in the forums said.. ESO is their toy, and they can do with it as they wish. In the end, ZOS makes all the decisions, and I can as a player, live with that, or just move on.

For right now, I'm still interested in ESO enough to stay, despite the fact that I'm not "thrilled" with the guild trader store option. I'm in a few trading guilds that have weekly sell requirements that I can live with (for now), and if I have added things I want to sell over the sell requirement for the week, the items seem to sell fairly quickly, so the guild master(s) are doing a good job I think. I just feel bad that the guild master(s) have to work so hard to maintain the guild trader stores in the first place.

But for absolute certain, the guild trader store system is not what is keeping me coming back to ESO. And when I do finally move on, it won't be something I fondly "miss". I wonder how many people new to ESO just left once they understood all about the guild trader system. I have no numbers for that, and have no idea if people left or not.. but I do wonder if ESO did an exit interview sort of thing when people stopped playing and listed their guild trader store system as well as other possible reasons people stopped playing as exit survey options.. I wonder what information that would reveal to them? *shugs* Makes ya think... huh? Well, it makes me think...

I don't mind the guild trader system overall. It helps diversity and player interaction.

The problem is the horrendously bad user interface. I use the awesome guild store and master merchant add-ons (PC) which makes it easier, but it still sucks. I feel bad for console players.

I really hope ZOS updates this system and the ui significantly.

Tandor wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

<snip> Also if you cant pay the 5k a week then you really didn't have anything worth selling to begin with. <snip>

It's such a shame when people view a game's public trading system in that elitist way. It shouldn't matter whether you have something worth a few gold or many hundreds of thousands of gold, or whether you sell one thing per month or a hundred things per week, game economies thrive on players being able to buy and sell pretty well anything at any time and free of restriction.

Ummmm you can. You can sell anything through trade window, cod, and guild stores. Nothing stops you from selling things to anybody in the game. There is nothing elitist about what I said. If you don't have anything that anybody wants then why would you even try selling anything.

Seems people really have a problem with others not wanting to purchase their garbage. You can sell to anybody that wants what you have easily.

If you want the automation of using a trader then it cost, that's all there is to it. And you can't blame others because you don't have anything worth trading, which if you can't make 5k then I would say that is the case.

Can I vote for having an actual search system on the guild traders? Play on PS4 here, and it is abysmal... Want to look for a specific purple crafting motif? Well good luck searching through page, after page, after... page... of one's you don't want on each individual store... It's mind numbingly stupid.

There are NO advantages to it and MANY, MANY disadvantages.

It was made by ZoS to be a gold sink and that is it's only purpose. It literally offers NOTHING of value.

A centralized system would be:
1 - Easier to sell things
2 - Easier to buy things
3 - Faster access to a larger selection of items
4 - Remove the forced auctions/raffles/etc. to make room for REAL guild activities like dungeon crawls, training, PvP, etc.
5 - Allow a guild to focus on helping the players instead of making money for the next vendor bid
6 - Requires GUILDS to work for the players - not PLAYERS to work for the guilds

There are literally NO (I mean NO) disadvantages to a centralized auction system. Having one place to go or one vendor per city to go to saves time, space, lowers prices and encourages a thriving economy while reducing zone sales chatter.

[Edit to remove baiting]

Zerok wrote: »

collettd101 wrote: »

It sucks having to go all over the world checking traders in every city trying to find a particular item.

The part in bold is why the guild trader system exists in the first place.

ZOS intends you to spend the most possible time in game, even if you don't like it.

You are partially correct in the sense that moving from trader to trader makes it difficult for any one player to camp on the "Auction House" with an automated program that does nothing but watch and buy stuff.

ookami007 wrote: »

There are literally NO (I mean NO) disadvantages to a centralized auction system. Having one place to go or one vendor per city to go to saves time, space, lowers prices and encourages a thriving economy while reducing zone sales chatter.

I don't mind them. If I can't meet the weekly quota, oh well, I'll move down to an easier guild that still gives me a place to unload loot at a higher price than the trash merchants.

Fact is I feel this creates an extra gold sink that is consistently removing large sums from the economy, keeping the value of gold at a relatively stable level. Housing is a temporary payment that can get rid of player gold for only a little while before it all comes back. A centralized market house would remove the need to pay millions for high traffic locations, meaning millions of gold that aren't getting removed from an economy where the players literally print more money every day. More gold per player, means prices go up, and that means less well off players will need to grind/sell more just to afford what they want, which means even more gets introduced to the economy, driving prices further up.

I wish I could sell my 'wares' at ANY guild trader whether I'm a member of that guild or not. It is a win-win situation. I can sell all my stuff at once without having to bank my overflow (or vendor it) and the guild benefits from the taxes.

I really would prefer global AH. Don't want a few people control whole markets? Put limit on number of transactions per day.

So limit the number of transactions per day, so now would be punished by a limit? AH is not a good way to go. Way to easy for a few people to control.

Example:
4 people with 30 mil ea = 120 mil
Alloy 20k ea
So 120 mil ÷ 20k = 6 thousand alloys
Now 6 thousand alloys are now off the market at 20k ea, now they want 40k ea.
4 people just cornered the market with almost no effort. That precious gold upgrade will now cost you double. And if you think that doesnt happen you're crazy. I've seen it first hand, I've watched people snipe items off an auction house faster then you can hit your button. Ah it would never happen right? Wrong some people get off on in game gold.

Edited for math.

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

To be brutefully honest. My personally opinion is the guild traders offers so little if not nothing to the majority of the players. The guild trader system would've been nice if the markets was not so free, and so corrupt. However the oh so minority will fight us tooth and nail to keep there monopoly and free gold most of which they use to monopolize off of other items and send prices into the stratosphere.

It's my honest opinion now that the guild trader system in it's current form. Is more of a huge torn in the side of myself and maybe many many many other gamers playing this game. I think it's time ZOS that we get rid of it for a centralize auction house system.

If these people want to play boardroom trader dominion there are many other MMOs that will allow for that game play.

After taking a step back for a few minutes I'm going to say these few things. Yes I do see how AH can be monopolized.

But on the same hand I also see the fact that some of these trading Lords and Ladies that are the most successful. Are the ones who does nothing outside of working IRL but getting on VoIP chatting with their officers and some of their select members.Then proceed to spend most if not their whole time hours just walking to and from guild traders flipping those decent priced items and then put them up for dumb prices. While the rest of us is trying to advance our ESO progression. Some of these people have been playing since around release, yet highest characters are not even lvl 50. Because they don't do anything else in the game but make other people's lives a miserable hell, by doing nothing but guild trader stuffing and price flipping.

On my last note. This whole issue with the guild traders and these interesting individuals who only fun comes from making other people's lives unreasonably harder. This can be overturned a little bit by the Devs. of this game by reverting the Ninja Nerf on the drop rate of all of the purple and gold mats in the game. Since coming back to ESO in 1T after about a month or 2 not playing ESO I've noticed that the drop rates of the upgrade mats are horrendous. Which is also driving prices through the roof. Before leaving I was getting gold mats on a 150 raw mats/gold mat. ratio, now I'm seeing a patterning of having to refine 300 to over 500 raw mats to get one gold upgrade mat.

So some of this is on ZOS themselves for ninja nerfing the drop rates of the upgrade mats. so much with 1T.

Sorry but the first part makes no sense. Guild masters running and buying up stuff? The members are the ones who sell the majority of items. The player sets the price in my guilds not the gm.

Second they did not nerf drop rates they actually buffed them. My ratio is about 1 in 100. 400 to 500 mats is not near enough sample size to say they nerds anything. Last night I refined 100 ore from writ boxes, 3 gold alloys. Just sayin.

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

So limit the number of transactions per day, so now would be punished by a limit? AH is not a good way to go. Way to easy for a few people to control.

Example:
4 people with 30 mil ea = 120 mil
Alloy 20k ea
So 120 mil ÷ 20k = 6 million alloys
Now 6 million alloys are now off the market at 20k ea, now they want 40k ea.
4 people just cornered the market with almost no effort. That precious gold upgrade will now cost you double. And if you think that doesnt happen you're crazy. I've seen it first hand, I've watched people snipe items off an auction house faster then you can hit your button. Ah it would never happen right? Wrong some people get off on in game gold.

Resources are not finite, and trying to corner the market on an ever replenishing item is like trying to hold sand in your fist.

If I am harvesting and supplying the market with alloys at 20k, I don't care if anyone buys them up and tries to resell them at a higher price. If someone snipes them off the market at the 20k that I'm listing it, then I win. I sold it fast and I sold it at the price I asked.

There is NOTHING on the market that cannot be obtained personally.

I agree with the selling price but it doesn't change the fact that being able to corner the market with an AH is easier than it is with a guild trader. And I have stated before, if you don't want to farm for yourself than pay the price. In my above example 6 million alloys could be taken off the market easier than they can now.

So you sell your alloys for 20k great for you, but not for the others that are complain about guild prices, so if we could stay on topic, that would be great.

Stopnaggin wrote: »

So limit the number of transactions per day, so now would be punished by a limit? AH is not a good way to go. Way to easy for a few people to control.

Example:
4 people with 30 mil ea = 120 mil
Alloy 20k ea
So 120 mil ÷ 20k = 6 million alloys
Now 6 million alloys are now off the market at 20k ea, now they want 40k ea.
4 people just cornered the market with almost no effort. That precious gold upgrade will now cost you double. And if you think that doesnt happen you're crazy. I've seen it first hand, I've watched people snipe items off an auction house faster then you can hit your button. Ah it would never happen right? Wrong some people get off on in game gold.

You get an F in math for today. 120m/20k=6000. Your theory is great with a finite supply. You have thousands of players resupply in the market each day. Price fixing only works when you control the supply as well. Know why gas prices arent $50 a gallon, because the supply isn't controlled.

odysseus33 wrote: »

Stopnaggin wrote: »

So limit the number of transactions per day, so now would be punished by a limit? AH is not a good way to go. Way to easy for a few people to control.

Example:
4 people with 30 mil ea = 120 mil
Alloy 20k ea
So 120 mil ÷ 20k = 6 million alloys
Now 6 million alloys are now off the market at 20k ea, now they want 40k ea.
4 people just cornered the market with almost no effort. That precious gold upgrade will now cost you double. And if you think that doesnt happen you're crazy. I've seen it first hand, I've watched people snipe items off an auction house faster then you can hit your button. Ah it would never happen right? Wrong some people get off on in game gold.

You get an F in math for today. 120m/20k=6000. Your theory is great with a finite supply. You have thousands of players resupply in the market each day. Price fixing only works when you control the supply as well. Know why gas prices arent $50 a gallon, because the supply isn't controlled.

Bad example:

What 3 Factors Do Traders Use To Set Oil Prices?
There are three main factors that commodities traders look at when developing the bids that create oil prices.

First, is current supply in terms of output. This has historically been controlled by OPEC quotas.