Other players pinching your mats/runes

moonbat · November 2016

"It's not yours until it's in your inventory"

When I played EQ1, anyone could loot a dead mob, regardless of whether or not they killed it. One time, my guild got 40 people together and we killed a rare boss spawn. Some enterprising fellow ran up and looted the contents of the dead boss before the loot could be handed out to the raid.

According to the logic of 'it's not yours until it's in your inventory', and 'if game mechanics allow it, then it's ok", what the ninja looter did was righteous and just, since he *technically got to loot the dead boss before anyone else*.

Now, what if everyone went around doing this? What if people, given access to guild banks, all decided to steal the contents of their guild banks (because they can, and since 'can' = righteous and just, they can't possibly be acting unethically, since 'game mechanics allow it")

This is why pro-social as opposed to anti-social behaviour is encouraged, even in a video game.

STEVIL · November 2016

Cryptical wrote: »

Looks to me like all the people defending node poaching would be just fine with getting kicked from a group and getting the 15 minute penalty, because it's not their dungeon.

Maybe the rest of us should take notes on these names, so as to show our displeasure with those who lack consideration for others.

@STEVIL seems particularly interested in concocting rigged scenarios to try and cover a lack of consideration. 2 people are running toward 1 chest, with ogres there. One person fights the ogres, the node poacher waits till then to avoid the chest guards and poached the chest.

It's a matter of one person sacrificing the other to get the node. Morally, not unlike when Shane shot Otis, sacrificing Otis for himself.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MFzEWXTTnBU

I honestly have no idea how you can get to the dungeon concept from anything i wrote. Several times in fact iirc, i referenced this would change if one was part of a group or had any arrangement with the parties involved.

Either way tho, if i though others conduct was in violation of the rules in any way, i would report it to the appropriate enforcers. Running to the forums after a loss for namecalling - not good form by the way i was taught.

As for the thinly veiled threat since i dont group with those i do not know except on extremely rare occasions, not gonna worry. But i gotta say its not surprising to see such a response.

As for the bold: In what world is the node gatherer in your example "sacrificing" anyone else?
1 - The node chest gatherer NCG did not have any control over the ogre fighter OF so he did not in anyway force them into the ogre fight. the ogre fighter willingly fought the ogres on his own accord.
2 - if the OF beat the ogres the OF lived (read was not sacrificed) amd got the rewards they earned by killing the ogres (drop-kill and XP)
3 - if the OF lost to the ogres, they didn't earn anything except what they got. At that point, the NCG may have to fight the ogres or may not, either way if NCG got to the chest and got it, they earned it.

Somehow you construe this as the OF being sacrificed by the NCG, with no explanation as to how that describes "one person sacrificing the other". it certainly can be seen rationally as a case where (assumed) one doesn't help another. But "one person sacrificing the other"... we dont even know if the OF dies at the ogres hands.

STEVIL · November 2016

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Let's all agree that there's one thing worse than OP's gripe:

People who leave the *** worms and crawlers.

thats funny.

STEVIL · November 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

The thread in general refers to crafting nodes, thus I refer to them. IC is a completely different story, it looks like it's been especially designed to encourage griefing and agressivity. The chests being a good example of it. I still enjoy playing in it, but IF AND ONLY IF I have turned off chat and set my personal sensitivity to absolutely not expect any kind of social behaviour in there, from anyone. IC is a battlefield, a no-law-land, and that's it. Some people enjoy it for that, other people loathe it for that.

isnt IC a PVP zone where there is the additional aspect of actually taking stuff from other players and gambling with the more you carry that can be taken the more you earn built in for its takeaway hostile mechanics?

has the "others should do as i want" meme been extended there as well?

Stoopid_Nwah · November 2016

All this over 6 ancestor silk or a chest full of garbage? Geez, you know guys you'd get a lot more in your inventory if you didn't sit around on the forums calling "node-stealers" morons, rude, etc and then try to get an angry mob ready with pitchforks to go after them, make a list, and never group with them.

I guess I'm just not buying it when some of you say you don't care when nodes get "stolen". I've seen a lot more entitlement and rude behaviour coming from a lot of you.

moonbat · November 2016

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

All this over 6 ancestor silk or a chest full of garbage? Geez, you know guys you'd get a lot more in your inventory if you didn't sit around on the forums calling "node-stealers" morons, rude, etc and then try to get an angry mob ready with pitchforks to go after them, make a list, and never group with them.

I guess I'm just not buying it when some of you say you don't care when nodes get "stolen". I've seen a lot more entitlement and rude behaviour coming from a lot of you.

Screwing people over is wrong, even if it is a 10cent candybar that is stolen, by way of analogy.

We are discussing the overall *concept*, and not the relative value of loot.

EDIT:

And if it's "just 6 ancestor silk" then why are YOU entitled to take it as someone is clearing the mobs so you don't have to, when YOU could just move along to the next node? This is why I say that the people defending this are behaving like entitled children. If it's "just worthless loot' then you can give others a wide berth should you see them fighting on top of a node, vs taking it whilst they are occupied (and the only reason that you have the opportunity to take the node is because they are fighting the mobs, saving YOU the trouble of having to do it yourself)

anitajoneb17_ESO · November 2016

STEVIL wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

The thread in general refers to crafting nodes, thus I refer to them. IC is a completely different story, it looks like it's been especially designed to encourage griefing and agressivity. The chests being a good example of it. I still enjoy playing in it, but IF AND ONLY IF I have turned off chat and set my personal sensitivity to absolutely not expect any kind of social behaviour in there, from anyone. IC is a battlefield, a no-law-land, and that's it. Some people enjoy it for that, other people loathe it for that.

isnt IC a PVP zone where there is the additional aspect of actually taking stuff from other players and gambling with the more you carry that can be taken the more you earn built in for its takeaway hostile mechanics?

has the "others should do as i want" meme been extended there as well?

I think it is (or should be) possible to discuss an issue without the debate straight away being changed into a demand or an accusation.
I was merely pointing out the fact that overland crafting nodes and IC chests are not exactly comparable (although "stealable" in similar ways) due to the very nature of IC being a zone of competition (and not cooperation) between players.
That being said, the issue with the IC chests is a little bit odd, because in IC you're supposed to fight mobs (any) and players of other colors. The design of the chests makes them stealable by people of your own color, and most likely by the people you're grouped with (and supposed to cooperate), so yeah that makes for a lot of not very pleasant situations.
But as I said, IC is a zone without laws nor morals and should remain that way.

moonbat · November 2016

There are chests outside of IC that are tied to mobs. You have to fight the 'bandits' off before you can loot the chest. While fighting the bandit off any player can walk up and take the chest. But I guess they are entitled to it, since 'they got to loot it first'.

AuldWolf · November 2016

This isn't a people problem, this is a gameplay problem.

It's like with public duelling. Give people the tools to be sociopathic, and they'll often take you up on that. For example, if you allow people to do PvP duels in town, a nontrivial contingent of people will take it upon themselves to find out where RP events are being held to duel there, they'll also find the towns where people do crafting and duel right on top of the crafting stations. If you give people the tools to be horrible, they'll be horrible. This is a lesson I hope ZOS has learned, and I hope they're having internal talks as to what to do about the duelling.

This is about nodes, though, but the same truth still applies. If you give people this power, a nontrivial contingent of people will abuse it. If someone can steal your node, that contingent will. They might not even need it, or want it, they'll do it because it gives them this little sensation of power in their bellies and they like it far, far too much. It allows them control over another, even in an abstract sense. If the game allows for it, there are many horrible people out there who'll ensure it'll happen.

So the solution is to take the ability to cause strife away.

In this case, nodes should be instanced to the player. So if three people head to an ore node, all three can mine it. The technology for instancing already exists in this game, there's loads of evidence of this, even in nodes. So that cannot be denied. The technology exists. It's just a choice for ZOS whether they implement per-player instanced nodes or not. They really should. GW2 did this, and it removed so much of the strife from gathering. It was even nice to see other people gathering around, sometimes you'd end up gathering with them and roleplaying.

It's funny to me that ZOS claims to be a 'social' MMO so often, and yet they have one of the most antisocial MMO elements standing proud front and centre -- non-instanced nodes. If GW2 can do it, so can ESO.

anitajoneb17_ESO · November 2016

AuldWolf wrote: »

This isn't a people problem, this is a gameplay problem.
.../...
It's funny to me that ZOS claims to be a 'social' MMO so often, and yet they have one of the most antisocial MMO elements standing proud front and centre -- non-instanced nodes. If GW2 can do it, so can ESO.

I kind of disagree with the "instance everything" approach. Loot is already instanced, bags and containers too. If nodes and chests are also instanced, it means we have the "whole world" at our disposal, which no other player can impact. That would result in us sharing the same world only graphically.
In order for the world to feel alive and the game to feel like an MMO, we need player interactions that have consequences. This is what this type of design achieves with the nodes and chests being lootable by one player and then gone for others, until respawn.

If we want to play a social game, we have to deal with the good and the bad in "social". Else we could play single-player games or Co-op games. We cannot (and imho shouldn't) ask from ZOS to implement "filters" that would force everyone to be nice (and again, "nice" according to whose standards ?) . We're humans playing an MMO, which means we want to interact with other humans. There's good and bad in humans. Let's deal with it as humans and not ask from yet another layer of software to deal with it for us. It would be boring.

That said, I wholeheartedly agree with you on the duelling thing, that's infuriating, and unlikely to cool down, as we initially hoped. I really wish ZOS will ban duelling from town entirely.

Lava_Croft · November 2016

moonbat wrote: »

"It's not yours until it's in your inventory"

When I played EQ1, anyone could loot a dead mob, regardless of whether or not they killed it. One time, my guild got 40 people together and we killed a rare boss spawn. Some enterprising fellow ran up and looted the contents of the dead boss before the loot could be handed out to the raid.

According to the logic of 'it's not yours until it's in your inventory', and 'if game mechanics allow it, then it's ok", what the ninja looter did was righteous and just, since he *technically got to loot the dead boss before anyone else*.

Now, what if everyone went around doing this? What if people, given access to guild banks, all decided to steal the contents of their guild banks (because they can, and since 'can' = righteous and just, they can't possibly be acting unethically, since 'game mechanics allow it")

This is why pro-social as opposed to anti-social behaviour is encouraged, even in a video game.

Taking the contents of a resource node while someone else is there fighting mobs is in no way, no matter how you look at it, comparable to stealing. Taking the loot from a mob you just killed can be. So, if you could take someone else's dropped loot in ESO and someone would walk by and steal the loot from the mobs you just killed at the resource node, then you would have a fair comparison.

Joy_Division · November 2016

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

The OP has a peculiar definition of what is "yours."

Just because other people's concept of that term differs, does not automatically make them rude, immature, jerks, or insensitive.

You have a funny definition of rude. It is what it is though. If you don't see a problem with some of the actions taken by other players on this subject, you may be part of the problem.

Let's try and put this into a different light. And yes I will use an extreme examlpe. Let's say you are on the last round of VMA. Now right before you get to the coveted chest, someone comes in and takes it before you get there. It wouldn't make them rude at all right?

Yeah, it's funny in that I don't base rudeness solely on a single action in a video game. You have zero clue what's going on with the other person or what is motivating them to do that.

You say I am part of the problem when you judge people on ignorance. The irony.

And your example stinks because I am in a solo instance and the only way the chest appears if I complete acual content. It's not in the open world that spawns randomly.

FortheloveofKrist · November 2016

danno8 wrote: »

2004 called, it wants it's thread back.

Seriously though, it's impolite (when done purposely), but there is nothing to be done.

Move on, don't get worked up over it.

1992 called, and it's want's its overused joke formula back.

moonbat · November 2016

Lava_Croft wrote: »

moonbat wrote: »

"It's not yours until it's in your inventory"

When I played EQ1, anyone could loot a dead mob, regardless of whether or not they killed it. One time, my guild got 40 people together and we killed a rare boss spawn. Some enterprising fellow ran up and looted the contents of the dead boss before the loot could be handed out to the raid.

According to the logic of 'it's not yours until it's in your inventory', and 'if game mechanics allow it, then it's ok", what the ninja looter did was righteous and just, since he *technically got to loot the dead boss before anyone else*.

Now, what if everyone went around doing this? What if people, given access to guild banks, all decided to steal the contents of their guild banks (because they can, and since 'can' = righteous and just, they can't possibly be acting unethically, since 'game mechanics allow it")

This is why pro-social as opposed to anti-social behaviour is encouraged, even in a video game.

Taking the contents of a resource node while someone else is there fighting mobs is in no way, no matter how you look at it, comparable to stealing. Taking the loot from a mob you just killed can be. So, if you could take someone else's dropped loot in ESO and someone would walk by and steal the loot from the mobs you just killed at the resource node, then you would have a fair comparison.

The *concept* here is that some people believe that they are entitled to enrich themselves off of the labour of another. This applies to both scenarios.

STEVIL · November 2016

moonbat wrote: »

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

All this over 6 ancestor silk or a chest full of garbage? Geez, you know guys you'd get a lot more in your inventory if you didn't sit around on the forums calling "node-stealers" morons, rude, etc and then try to get an angry mob ready with pitchforks to go after them, make a list, and never group with them.

I guess I'm just not buying it when some of you say you don't care when nodes get "stolen". I've seen a lot more entitlement and rude behaviour coming from a lot of you.

Screwing people over is wrong, even if it is a 10cent candybar that is stolen, by way of analogy.

We are discussing the overall *concept*, and not the relative value of loot.

EDIT:

And if it's "just 6 ancestor silk" then why are YOU entitled to take it as someone is clearing the mobs so you don't have to, when YOU could just move along to the next node? This is why I say that the people defending this are behaving like entitled children. If it's "just worthless loot' then you can give others a wide berth should you see them fighting on top of a node, vs taking it whilst they are occupied (and the only reason that you have the opportunity to take the node is because they are fighting the mobs, saving YOU the trouble of having to do it yourself)

yes - screwing someone over is wrong.

being first to win a chest/race-node is not screwing someone over (unless you are breaking a prior agreement.)

"Entitled children?"

baffling that those wanting to throw that around so much want to apply it to the one who met the get-stuff conditions as opposed to the one who came close but not quite - esp with then follow-up with "go on net and gripe and malign the one who got it" added for flavor.

moonbat · November 2016

STEVIL wrote: »

moonbat wrote: »

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

All this over 6 ancestor silk or a chest full of garbage? Geez, you know guys you'd get a lot more in your inventory if you didn't sit around on the forums calling "node-stealers" morons, rude, etc and then try to get an angry mob ready with pitchforks to go after them, make a list, and never group with them.

I guess I'm just not buying it when some of you say you don't care when nodes get "stolen". I've seen a lot more entitlement and rude behaviour coming from a lot of you.

Screwing people over is wrong, even if it is a 10cent candybar that is stolen, by way of analogy.

We are discussing the overall *concept*, and not the relative value of loot.

EDIT:

And if it's "just 6 ancestor silk" then why are YOU entitled to take it as someone is clearing the mobs so you don't have to, when YOU could just move along to the next node? This is why I say that the people defending this are behaving like entitled children. If it's "just worthless loot' then you can give others a wide berth should you see them fighting on top of a node, vs taking it whilst they are occupied (and the only reason that you have the opportunity to take the node is because they are fighting the mobs, saving YOU the trouble of having to do it yourself)

yes - screwing someone over is wrong.

being first to win a chest/race-node is not screwing someone over (unless you are breaking a prior agreement.)

"Entitled children?"

baffling that those wanting to throw that around so much want to apply it to the one who met the get-stuff conditions as opposed to the one who came close but not quite - esp with then follow-up with "go on net and gripe and malign the one who got it" added for flavor.

You are not 'the first to win it' if the *only* reason you can loot it is because another person kindly cleared all of the mobs for you. You are desperately trying to justify your *right* to fill your bags at the expense of another who actually put in the work. If it's 'just worthless ancestor silk' you really seem bothered by the fact that your RIGHT to waltz in and take stuff that other people worked to clear the mobs around might be challenged.

STEVIL · November 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

The thread in general refers to crafting nodes, thus I refer to them. IC is a completely different story, it looks like it's been especially designed to encourage griefing and agressivity. The chests being a good example of it. I still enjoy playing in it, but IF AND ONLY IF I have turned off chat and set my personal sensitivity to absolutely not expect any kind of social behaviour in there, from anyone. IC is a battlefield, a no-law-land, and that's it. Some people enjoy it for that, other people loathe it for that.

isnt IC a PVP zone where there is the additional aspect of actually taking stuff from other players and gambling with the more you carry that can be taken the more you earn built in for its takeaway hostile mechanics?

has the "others should do as i want" meme been extended there as well?

I think it is (or should be) possible to discuss an issue without the debate straight away being changed into a demand or an accusation.
I was merely pointing out the fact that overland crafting nodes and IC chests are not exactly comparable (although "stealable" in similar ways) due to the very nature of IC being a zone of competition (and not cooperation) between players.
That being said, the issue with the IC chests is a little bit odd, because in IC you're supposed to fight mobs (any) and players of other colors. The design of the chests makes them stealable by people of your own color, and most likely by the people you're grouped with (and supposed to cooperate), so yeah that makes for a lot of not very pleasant situations.
But as I said, IC is a zone without laws nor morals and should remain that way.

I agree with much of what you just said.
i am very nonplussed by the open name calling and post-loss maligning that seems to be acceptable for this subject.
I can not say all that much about IC because all in all my experience there is limited but it seems to me to be a very intentionally designed player-v-player takeaway competition and so... those with issues with others getting "their stuff" or "fair" etc referencing IC seems really out there.

moonbat · November 2016

One last point.

I always give other players a wide berth if I see them going for the same node. If i see someone fighting a group of mobs over a node or a chest, I leave them be. I leave them be precisely because NODES ARE PLENTIFUL and missing out on some nodes won't hurt.

However, I find it fascinating that certain spoiled brats of the 'me me me me' generation can't live without getting every single node. If someone is fighting mobs over a node, they *must* claim it for themselves. They are the narcissistic children who cannot live without their precious imaginary loots. And here they are, defending their 'right' to grief others, because they desperately need that 6 ancestor silk.

It's time to look in the mirror, the selfish, petty one is YOU.

Cryptical · November 2016

Lava_Croft wrote: »

moonbat wrote: »

"It's not yours until it's in your inventory"

When I played EQ1, anyone could loot a dead mob, regardless of whether or not they killed it. One time, my guild got 40 people together and we killed a rare boss spawn. Some enterprising fellow ran up and looted the contents of the dead boss before the loot could be handed out to the raid.

According to the logic of 'it's not yours until it's in your inventory', and 'if game mechanics allow it, then it's ok", what the ninja looter did was righteous and just, since he *technically got to loot the dead boss before anyone else*.

Now, what if everyone went around doing this? What if people, given access to guild banks, all decided to steal the contents of their guild banks (because they can, and since 'can' = righteous and just, they can't possibly be acting unethically, since 'game mechanics allow it")

This is why pro-social as opposed to anti-social behaviour is encouraged, even in a video game.

Taking the contents of a resource node while someone else is there fighting mobs is in no way, no matter how you look at it, comparable to stealing. Taking the loot from a mob you just killed can be. So, if you could take someone else's dropped loot in ESO and someone would walk by and steal the loot from the mobs you just killed at the resource node, then you would have a fair comparison.

Yes, it is theft. Theft of the mob-killer's time and theft of any gold for any armor damage / item charge and theft of opportunity. The mob-killer expended real time toward defeating the mob, the poacher did not.

The poacher didn't earn it by defeating the mobs that were stationed to attack a person harvesting the node.

It is theft just like emptying a guild bank and leaving is theft. Just because the game allows it doesn't mean it is the right thing to do, and you can try to rationalize away the fact that it is theft all you want.

STEVIL · November 2016

AuldWolf wrote: »

This isn't a people problem, this is a gameplay problem.

It's like with public duelling. Give people the tools to be sociopathic, and they'll often take you up on that. For example, if you allow people to do PvP duels in town, a nontrivial contingent of people will take it upon themselves to find out where RP events are being held to duel there, they'll also find the towns where people do crafting and duel right on top of the crafting stations. If you give people the tools to be horrible, they'll be horrible. This is a lesson I hope ZOS has learned, and I hope they're having internal talks as to what to do about the duelling.

This is about nodes, though, but the same truth still applies. If you give people this power, a nontrivial contingent of people will abuse it. If someone can steal your node, that contingent will. They might not even need it, or want it, they'll do it because it gives them this little sensation of power in their bellies and they like it far, far too much. It allows them control over another, even in an abstract sense. If the game allows for it, there are many horrible people out there who'll ensure it'll happen.

So the solution is to take the ability to cause strife away.

In this case, nodes should be instanced to the player. So if three people head to an ore node, all three can mine it. The technology for instancing already exists in this game, there's loads of evidence of this, even in nodes. So that cannot be denied. The technology exists. It's just a choice for ZOS whether they implement per-player instanced nodes or not. They really should. GW2 did this, and it removed so much of the strife from gathering. It was even nice to see other people gathering around, sometimes you'd end up gathering with them and roleplaying.

It's funny to me that ZOS claims to be a 'social' MMO so often, and yet they have one of the most antisocial MMO elements standing proud front and centre -- non-instanced nodes. If GW2 can do it, so can ESO.

Dueling - agree. But lets be even more inclusive..

Any action you take in the game for the purpose of disrupting others play - especially if you do it repeatedly to the same person - that is inappropriate and wrong and in fact iirc is maybe violating the vague conditions of TOS. I wont even make an exception for PVP. A PVP is a fight for fun zone. if you find a way to make it unfun for others and do so deliberately for that purpose thats not PVP just harassment (though it might be hard to objectively differentiate the two.)

But getting to a node someone else thinks they have a pre-claim dibs on and taking it (exclude IC some say their stuff is different) is not the bolded. it can be of course, just like many many other legal things can be.

And its not stealing your node - its not your node. Its not earned by crying dibs or by fighting ogres.

STEVIL · November 2016

Lava_Croft wrote: »

moonbat wrote: »

"It's not yours until it's in your inventory"

When I played EQ1, anyone could loot a dead mob, regardless of whether or not they killed it. One time, my guild got 40 people together and we killed a rare boss spawn. Some enterprising fellow ran up and looted the contents of the dead boss before the loot could be handed out to the raid.

According to the logic of 'it's not yours until it's in your inventory', and 'if game mechanics allow it, then it's ok", what the ninja looter did was righteous and just, since he *technically got to loot the dead boss before anyone else*.

Now, what if everyone went around doing this? What if people, given access to guild banks, all decided to steal the contents of their guild banks (because they can, and since 'can' = righteous and just, they can't possibly be acting unethically, since 'game mechanics allow it")

This is why pro-social as opposed to anti-social behaviour is encouraged, even in a video game.

Taking the contents of a resource node while someone else is there fighting mobs is in no way, no matter how you look at it, comparable to stealing. Taking the loot from a mob you just killed can be. So, if you could take someone else's dropped loot in ESO and someone would walk by and steal the loot from the mobs you just killed at the resource node, then you would have a fair comparison.

Agree

Bouldercleave · November 2016

Personally I try and not grab nodes or chests that someone else is OBVIOUSLY heading to or fighting over. That is just my own personal moral compass.

I'm simply not that type of person. I don't step on people in real life, why would I feel it's ok to do it in the game?

What others do in game is completely indicative of how they are in RL, and that is something for them to come to grips with - not me. I'll continue to do my thing as I see fit. At the end of the day the only one that I see when I look in the mirror is me (or my wife if she is sneaking up behind me)...

Lava_Croft · November 2016

moonbat wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

moonbat wrote: »

"It's not yours until it's in your inventory"

When I played EQ1, anyone could loot a dead mob, regardless of whether or not they killed it. One time, my guild got 40 people together and we killed a rare boss spawn. Some enterprising fellow ran up and looted the contents of the dead boss before the loot could be handed out to the raid.

According to the logic of 'it's not yours until it's in your inventory', and 'if game mechanics allow it, then it's ok", what the ninja looter did was righteous and just, since he *technically got to loot the dead boss before anyone else*.

Now, what if everyone went around doing this? What if people, given access to guild banks, all decided to steal the contents of their guild banks (because they can, and since 'can' = righteous and just, they can't possibly be acting unethically, since 'game mechanics allow it")

This is why pro-social as opposed to anti-social behaviour is encouraged, even in a video game.

Taking the contents of a resource node while someone else is there fighting mobs is in no way, no matter how you look at it, comparable to stealing. Taking the loot from a mob you just killed can be. So, if you could take someone else's dropped loot in ESO and someone would walk by and steal the loot from the mobs you just killed at the resource node, then you would have a fair comparison.

The *concept* here is that some people believe that they are entitled to enrich themselves off of the labour of another. This applies to both scenarios.

The concept is broken because it implies that the resource node already belongs to the person who is nearby it. This is not comparable to the loot coming from a mob you just killed. Comparing it to 'stealing' is even more ludicrous.

moonbat · November 2016

Lava_Croft wrote: »

moonbat wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

moonbat wrote: »

"It's not yours until it's in your inventory"

When I played EQ1, anyone could loot a dead mob, regardless of whether or not they killed it. One time, my guild got 40 people together and we killed a rare boss spawn. Some enterprising fellow ran up and looted the contents of the dead boss before the loot could be handed out to the raid.

According to the logic of 'it's not yours until it's in your inventory', and 'if game mechanics allow it, then it's ok", what the ninja looter did was righteous and just, since he *technically got to loot the dead boss before anyone else*.

Now, what if everyone went around doing this? What if people, given access to guild banks, all decided to steal the contents of their guild banks (because they can, and since 'can' = righteous and just, they can't possibly be acting unethically, since 'game mechanics allow it")

This is why pro-social as opposed to anti-social behaviour is encouraged, even in a video game.

Taking the contents of a resource node while someone else is there fighting mobs is in no way, no matter how you look at it, comparable to stealing. Taking the loot from a mob you just killed can be. So, if you could take someone else's dropped loot in ESO and someone would walk by and steal the loot from the mobs you just killed at the resource node, then you would have a fair comparison.

The *concept* here is that some people believe that they are entitled to enrich themselves off of the labour of another. This applies to both scenarios.

The concept is broken because it implies that the resource node already belongs to the person who is nearby it. This is not comparable to the loot coming from a mob you just killed. Comparing it to 'stealing' is even more ludicrous.

Incorrect. The underlying concept is the same - in both cases the looter is only able to loot the node and/or dead boss mob because someone else went to the effort of killing it.

Stoopid_Nwah · November 2016

moonbat wrote: »

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

All this over 6 ancestor silk or a chest full of garbage? Geez, you know guys you'd get a lot more in your inventory if you didn't sit around on the forums calling "node-stealers" morons, rude, etc and then try to get an angry mob ready with pitchforks to go after them, make a list, and never group with them.

I guess I'm just not buying it when some of you say you don't care when nodes get "stolen". I've seen a lot more entitlement and rude behaviour coming from a lot of you.

Screwing people over is wrong, even if it is a 10cent candybar that is stolen, by way of analogy.

We are discussing the overall *concept*, and not the relative value of loot.

EDIT:

And if it's "just 6 ancestor silk" then why are YOU entitled to take it as someone is clearing the mobs so you don't have to, when YOU could just move along to the next node? This is why I say that the people defending this are behaving like entitled children. If it's "just worthless loot' then you can give others a wide berth should you see them fighting on top of a node, vs taking it whilst they are occupied (and the only reason that you have the opportunity to take the node is because they are fighting the mobs, saving YOU the trouble of having to do it yourself)

are you even thinking about what you are writing? Do you not realize that no one here has name-called or expressed aggressive rude behavior except for those of you complaining about nodes being "stolen"? It is indeed just 6 ancestor silk so I'm just going to take it if I'm there. Am I going to run across the map to get a chest while someone fights an ogre or two? No, that's a waste of my time, but if I come to a spot where someone is fighting and there's a node, yeah I'll take it. It's comical though that you think the *only* way we can get loot is if all of you self-sacrificing individuals can kill the mobs for us. If you weren't there killing the mobs, I would just kill them in one or two hits and take the loot OR cloak, take the loot, and be on my way.

And if I gave everyone I saw in game a "wide berth" I would have almost nowhere to go. This is an mmo, perhaps a single player game would be better suited so you can have all of the loot you want?

Btw, I agree screwing people over is wrong, but quit trying to compare real life actual crime (stealing) to a video game with imaginary mats that aren't owned by any of us.

Morgha_Kul · November 2016

Ah, the node ninjas.

It happens in every game with crafting nodes, or chests of treasure or what have you. I've even seen people standing around, WAITING for someone else to engage the "guards" at a node, so they can then go in and steal it out from under them.

There's not really anything you can do about it, unfortunately. It's frowned upon, but there's not really any way to prevent it or enforce the unspoken rule that you shouldn't do it. Thus, many people do it, regardless.

It may be that players are unaware (though, I kind of doubt this). This has been an UNSPOKEN rule for a long, long time. What I often do is just send the player a tell, or if I can't, I'll make a comment about it in zone chat, reminding them that they shouldn't do it again. Frequently, they'll offer to give me what they looted (I always decline the offer), which suggests it wasn't done malevolently, but rather done in ignorance. Such players likely won't do it again.

The REAL node ninjas won't listen and will just carry on, but there's nothing to be done about that. There are lots of nodes out there, just go find another.

moonbat · November 2016

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

I'm just going to take it if I'm there.

"Me me me me me me me me me!!"

Sheezabeast · November 2016

When I'm fighting a mob that moves around, I stand over the node and make the mob come to me. The nodes where the mobs don't move so much, I try to dps them down fast so I can get the node faster. I do get my nodes pinched, but standing over them sends a pretty clear message.

Stoopid_Nwah · November 2016

moonbat wrote: »

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

I'm just going to take it if I'm there.

"Me me me me me me me me me!!"

And you're calling us entitled children?

anitajoneb17_ESO · November 2016

moonbat wrote: »

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

I'm just going to take it if I'm there.

"Me me me me me me me me me!!"

Not more or less "me me me me me" than you. Sorry but that's the truth. Because you engaging the fight with the mobs is what makes YOU unable to collect the node. It's not what makes the "ninja farmer" able to collect it. Because you can get almost any node without engaging the fight (with the CP passive, and sometimes with cloaking).

I reckon some people are opportunistic griefers, but making EVERYONE that takes "your" node from you one of them, is far too stretched.

Engaging mobs near a node does NOT make it YOUR node. Simple as that.

What should hardcore farmers like myself do ? Carefully check aroung each node that someone is not fighting mobs, potentially with the intent to farm said node ? Sorry, but when I farm, I'm more or less on "automation" mode. Don't ask me to take you into account just because you're there. If I take "your" node, it's not to grief you, it's not to annoy you, in fact it has nothing to do with you. It's just that I'm farming nodes, and here's one.

Sometimes people steal "my" nodes (the ones I'm aiming for) and I don't make a fuss out of it.