Tank: "It's not my job to debuff." Yeah, right...

LadyNalcarya · November 2016

heng14rwb17_ESO wrote: »

By the way,most of the pro would have gotten their gears fron vet dung alr.

So just be glad u can complete the daily vet dung pledge.

There are people who are on vMA leaderboards, but dont have the weapons they wanted.
Also there are people who got something super rare (bsw sharp staff, for example) on their first dungeon run.
Despite a popular opinion, not all good players are no lifers and can (or want to) grind everything for days. Even if some are willing to, RNGesus might be cruel to them.

And ofc, there's not just "elites" and "scrubs". There are players of all skill levels and with different ingame goals.

Dubhliam · November 2016

DoccEff wrote: »

Does anyone know if there is a an option to put people on an ignore list for the forums? Someone in this discussion is posting so much crap that I don't even want to be able to see it anymore.

Profile>Edit Profile>Ignore list
Or you can click on a person's name to look at their profile, where you can ignore them in the upper right corner.

Kolache · November 2016

With all the people that show up in PUGs in their wide range of levels/CPs, and their wide range of ability to contribute to their picked role in any meaningful way, I'm amazed that people would rant about a tank that stayed alive, kept agro, and minded the boss mechanics. Are you guys somehow usually getting the dream-team pugs that I'm not getting 4 times a day?

I mean really, if your biggest problem with ESO pugs is a tank that does all of the above but doesn't apply a debuff? Hell at least that's in your power to fix by simply slotting another ability. It's not like a good tank in a bad pug can simply slot 1 skill to instantly fill the DPS gap (that often far far far exceeds even the best of debuffs), or another skill to play the healer role at the same time.

I'd say it's also solvable by simply not pugging and playing with friends, but it's really so much easier than that isn't it? I use pierce armor because it makes sense to me. I really don't give a sh** what skills you're using--you figure out how to do more damage if more damage needs to be done. Should we start checking for DPS to use the right weapon enchants/poisons too?

This was posted a few days ago on an MMO review site:

Fired up ESO again for the Orsinium event. Wandered around a bit, did some quests. Was having a good time, I wondered why I stopped playing.

Then I got into a random Heroic Dungeon group. They complained that my DPS was too low after the first boss and kicked me from the group.

Oh, yeah, thats why I stopped playing. The horrible community.

Uninstalled for good this time.

If this is the kinda reaction people have to a high level "can't effectively tank/damage/heal", how do you think people will respond to a more specific "you slotted the wrong skills" and necessity to squeeze a tiny bit more efficiency out of a PUG? PUGs are srsbsns, you know...

Alp · November 2016

There isn't really a guide for tanking in the game. I've never debuffed an enemy on my sorcerer stamina tank.. I can taunt and keep myself alive, even reviving the others when we were close to wiping more than a few times.

This game is starting to bother me with the "you have to play the one perfect way we decided was right" thing. Tanking is already boring as it is. It's just resource managing and poking the enemies.. There is only space for so many skills on a bar.

newtinmpls · November 2016

Zypheran wrote: »

'conform to your role' or 'conform to MY view of your role'
Also, where are these 'rules of the role'??

Well... good point.

Recently I was with a group that could do decent DPS, but we couldn't finish a particular challenge because no one had any crowd control or lockdowns. I was running a templar, so I was SoL; the sorc didn't have dark-whatever-the-heck, the DK had no talons; it was bad.

I will have to make sure that my templar gets her hands on Webs from the Undaunted, it would be better than nothing.

newtinmpls · November 2016

Autolycus wrote: »

If I enter a PUG with a tank that uses only Inner Fire and just stands there, I would rather have literally any other role to replace him/her.

And if that is literally all that is happening, you would be right.

But say if the tank is using Inner fire and a lockdown to hold the aggro, and is wearing Ebon (there's a group buff) and getting the job done, then why whine about it?

And before anyone has a fit about my use of the word "whine" - if the job is getting done, then yes, I think that word fits.

OTOH, any group (PUG or no) does better when they each know what to contribute. So if there are two DK's do we know which one is going to throw out glowy weapons? Better to have that conversation than to end up with both or neither. If one Tamplar is healing and the other is DPS, and they are both used to running repentance - what then? Or if for whatever reasons, one has the stamina/magicka shard morph and the other has the other morph?

I think generally things go better with conversation.

And maybe a Margarita... but that's a whole other conversation.

newtinmpls · November 2016

AtmaDarkwolf wrote: »

I'd be ok with this. As someone who has DPSed for as long as ive played(IE from beta to now) and have ONLY RECENTLY attempted to do that most difficult of jobs / roles (Tanking) and the other most difficult task of healing, I can say I AM SICK of tanks (And to a lesser, a MUCH lesser degree, healers) going on about 'HOW MUCH SKILL IT TAKES TO TANK...'(or heal) and that DPSing is easy and ANY twit can do it...

It.

Does.

Not.

Its boring. you got that (As is healing)

I disagree. I started with DPS too; the game is geared toward it, it's easy, and the more you explore the more you rotate, the better you get until the complexity of stacking too much stuff makes your head explode.

Healing is harder. First you have the "increased situational awareness" since you can't properly aim healing springs (as an example) unless you know where everyone is (thank Daedra for nameplates). Then you have the monitor magicka regen (much easier for a DPS than healer) then you add in shards/repentance to top off resources for others (if you are doing Templar - which is so thankless that I prefer to do Sorc/Pet healing).

Tanking is even harder. You are so focused on the main aggros that it's hard to see the rest. You juggle protecting everyone; watching for new opponents, the fancy bosses that lose or interrupt aggro, the annoying DPS that 1-catch aggro, then 2-run toward the healer [insert facepalm].

Permablock? I've never heard of anyone actually doing that.

I ran by chance with one of the most amazing tanks I ever met and I wish I'd friended him or her. Told us before every boss "stand here, I'll be bringing the mobs/bosses" so that we could lockdown and AoE. My gods it was amazing. I want to be that kind of tank when I "grow up".

newtinmpls · November 2016

NativeJoe wrote: »

When I've been asked to tank trials, I explain what I'm going to use, and they usually don't care, they just want to get through the trial with a tank that doesn't die, and will actually respond to them in teamspeak and react to the situation as it progresses.

Bold added by me

One of the smartest and most relevant points anyone has made here.

Jeremy · November 2016

Dubhliam wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

If you want me to pick reduce ressit morph over increase armor one, just to booost your slacky skiny dps arses, then you are wrong.

Does your tank build actually need the Minor Resolve that Ransack gives you in order to hit the mitigation hard cap? I'm used to tank builds that go a little bit over the resistance needed to hit the hard cap without any Minor Resolve buffs.

No. But when ppl force me to do smth because is a must i`l refuse to do it. And i found it funy when dd or even a healer try to educate tank how to play.

"Even a healer"? Wtf man.
I play a healer and tank, healed and tanked all trials and dungeons. I cant even express how silly your posts are.
What kind of attitude is it? "Someone asked me to do X - Oh noes, Ill never do that, theyre just some dds and healers, I will never listen to them!". Thats not what a team player (and a good tank is always a team player) would say.

Being a team player does not mean you let other players boss you around and tell you how to play.

I would be tempted to react in exactly the same fashion if someone tried to force me to do something also. I would refuse just out of principle alone - even if what they were demanding was an intelligent option.

You get better results when one asks nicely and doesn't try to force or push their own opinions onto someone else.

What are you? Three?

It is not just three year olds who have an issue with others thinking they have some right to order you about and tell you exactly how to play your games. That would probably include most adults as well (though you might be the exception and enjoy complete strangers demanding that you play like they want. I don't know).

Mature individuals usually know how to ask something nicely or with respect.

And if anything is acting like a 3 year old it is having a tantrum on a video game simply because another player does not slot an ability you like. Which is essentially what happened in this situation.

The bottom line here is this: if you want people to respond to your suggestions in a constructive manner - then suggest them in a respectful way. Otherwise, you have nothing but yourself to blame for what comes after.

Jeremy · November 2016

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

If you want me to pick reduce ressit morph over increase armor one, just to booost your slacky skiny dps arses, then you are wrong.

Does your tank build actually need the Minor Resolve that Ransack gives you in order to hit the mitigation hard cap? I'm used to tank builds that go a little bit over the resistance needed to hit the hard cap without any Minor Resolve buffs.

No. But when ppl force me to do smth because is a must i`l refuse to do it. And i found it funy when dd or even a healer try to educate tank how to play.

"Even a healer"? Wtf man.
I play a healer and tank, healed and tanked all trials and dungeons. I cant even express how silly your posts are.
What kind of attitude is it? "Someone asked me to do X - Oh noes, Ill never do that, theyre just some dds and healers, I will never listen to them!". Thats not what a team player (and a good tank is always a team player) would say.

Being a team player does not mean you let other players boss you around and tell you how to play.

I would be tempted to react in exactly the same fashion if someone tried to force me to do something also. I would refuse just out of principle alone - even if what they were demanding was an intelligent option.

You get better results when one asks nicely and doesn't try to force or push their own opinions onto someone else.

First of all, some people tend to think that even a very friendly advice is a despicable insult.
Secondly, sometimes "I play MY way and you have no right to give me advices!!!!11!!" blocks everyone's progress. Time is precious, and it doesnt make any sense to make things more complicated for everyone including yourself.
For example, I did a Spindle 1 pug the other day, when it was a pledge. Our tank was kinda squishy but it wasnt a problem until the last boss. He just refused to dodge her big aoe... And died every time she did it. Groups dps wasnt extremely high, so rezzing him all the time significantly slowed us down.
Or many times when I pugged WGT (I know its stupid, but I had some horrendous rng with Spc set), and dds/tank jsut refused to pick the pinion. Just out of principle, yes.
And many other failed runs, where various team members caused wipes because they didnt want to listen.
So... I honestly dont think this kind of "principles" works in group content. Sometimes it requires compromises.

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

If you want me to pick reduce ressit morph over increase armor one, just to booost your slacky skiny dps arses, then you are wrong.

Does your tank build actually need the Minor Resolve that Ransack gives you in order to hit the mitigation hard cap? I'm used to tank builds that go a little bit over the resistance needed to hit the hard cap without any Minor Resolve buffs.

No. But when ppl force me to do smth because is a must i`l refuse to do it. And i found it funy when dd or even a healer try to educate tank how to play.

"Even a healer"? Wtf man.
I play a healer and tank, healed and tanked all trials and dungeons. I cant even express how silly your posts are.
What kind of attitude is it? "Someone asked me to do X - Oh noes, Ill never do that, theyre just some dds and healers, I will never listen to them!". Thats not what a team player (and a good tank is always a team player) would say.

read the coment above your last/ cant change morphs for dungeon runs most of then can be run without tank even. With curent CP sistem and with litle skills from the platyer every tank build is viable / i mean you can do trials with pvp tanking build wuthout problems./ I dont need sm1 to teach me how to play. If everything is smooth in dungeon then no reason to spend money or to min max only to finish it 2-5 min faster....

Actually, the tank in question didnt even have the skill, morphed or not.
And the morph doesnt matter that much as long as someone can apply ele drain or both dds are stamina based. So ofc no need to respec a pvp char just for some random dungeon runs. But it doesnt even make sense to use only exclusively undaunted taunt - its expensive, and puncture is dirt cheap.
I disagree about "tanking trials in pvp builds". Normal trials maybe, but a proper trial setup boosts the team so much its just stupid to neglect that just because you want to be unique. You just need to see the difference between trial pug and an optimized run.

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

If you want me to pick reduce ressit morph over increase armor one, just to booost your slacky skiny dps arses, then you are wrong.

Does your tank build actually need the Minor Resolve that Ransack gives you in order to hit the mitigation hard cap? I'm used to tank builds that go a little bit over the resistance needed to hit the hard cap without any Minor Resolve buffs.

No. But when ppl force me to do smth because is a must i`l refuse to do it. And i found it funy when dd or even a healer try to educate tank how to play.

"Even a healer"? Wtf man.
I play a healer and tank, healed and tanked all trials and dungeons. I cant even express how silly your posts are.
What kind of attitude is it? "Someone asked me to do X - Oh noes, Ill never do that, theyre just some dds and healers, I will never listen to them!". Thats not what a team player (and a good tank is always a team player) would say.

Being a team player does not mean you let other players boss you around and tell you how to play.

I would be tempted to react in exactly the same fashion if someone tried to force me to do something also. I would refuse just out of principle alone - even if what they were demanding was an intelligent option.

You get better results when one asks nicely and doesn't try to force or push their own opinions onto someone else.

First of all, some people tend to think that even a very friendly advice is a despicable insult.

I stopped you here because you are setting up a misleading premise that is not relevant to my comments. Because that is not what happened here.

Offering friendly advice is different than telling another player it's their job to use the ability you want them to. Which is what happened here.

I have no problems with friendly suggestions. What I do have a problem with is when certain players believe they have a right to tell others exactly how to play - and then throw a tantrum when they aren't obeyed.

newtinmpls · November 2016

Jeremy wrote: »

The bottom line here is this: if you want people to respond to your suggestions in a constructive manner - then suggest them in a respectful way. Otherwise, you have nothing but yourself to blame for what comes after.

And they may be polite... and say 'no' anyway.

Jeremy · November 2016

newtinmpls wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

The bottom line here is this: if you want people to respond to your suggestions in a constructive manner - then suggest them in a respectful way. Otherwise, you have nothing but yourself to blame for what comes after.

And they may be polite... and say 'no' anyway.

True.

And in that case - the person who made the polite suggestion should accept that the player does not wish to follow their advice.

But I'll guarantee you - 9 times out of 10 - if you treat the player with respect he or she will respond better to the advice, and the odds of you getting them to try out your suggestion is at least 100x better.

newtinmpls · November 2016

Jeremy wrote: »

But I'll guarantee you - 9 times out of 10 - if you treat the player with respect he or she will respond better to the advice, and the odds of you getting them to try out your suggestion is at least 100x better.

And I would suspect that if you start out with a "I could run X or Y, which does anyone prefer" it might start the conversation out on a very "lets coordinate things" note.

LadyNalcarya · November 2016

Jeremy wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

If you want me to pick reduce ressit morph over increase armor one, just to booost your slacky skiny dps arses, then you are wrong.

Does your tank build actually need the Minor Resolve that Ransack gives you in order to hit the mitigation hard cap? I'm used to tank builds that go a little bit over the resistance needed to hit the hard cap without any Minor Resolve buffs.

No. But when ppl force me to do smth because is a must i`l refuse to do it. And i found it funy when dd or even a healer try to educate tank how to play.

"Even a healer"? Wtf man.
I play a healer and tank, healed and tanked all trials and dungeons. I cant even express how silly your posts are.
What kind of attitude is it? "Someone asked me to do X - Oh noes, Ill never do that, theyre just some dds and healers, I will never listen to them!". Thats not what a team player (and a good tank is always a team player) would say.

Being a team player does not mean you let other players boss you around and tell you how to play.

I would be tempted to react in exactly the same fashion if someone tried to force me to do something also. I would refuse just out of principle alone - even if what they were demanding was an intelligent option.

You get better results when one asks nicely and doesn't try to force or push their own opinions onto someone else.

First of all, some people tend to think that even a very friendly advice is a despicable insult.
Secondly, sometimes "I play MY way and you have no right to give me advices!!!!11!!" blocks everyone's progress. Time is precious, and it doesnt make any sense to make things more complicated for everyone including yourself.
For example, I did a Spindle 1 pug the other day, when it was a pledge. Our tank was kinda squishy but it wasnt a problem until the last boss. He just refused to dodge her big aoe... And died every time she did it. Groups dps wasnt extremely high, so rezzing him all the time significantly slowed us down.
Or many times when I pugged WGT (I know its stupid, but I had some horrendous rng with Spc set), and dds/tank jsut refused to pick the pinion. Just out of principle, yes.
And many other failed runs, where various team members caused wipes because they didnt want to listen.
So... I honestly dont think this kind of "principles" works in group content. Sometimes it requires compromises.

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

If you want me to pick reduce ressit morph over increase armor one, just to booost your slacky skiny dps arses, then you are wrong.

Does your tank build actually need the Minor Resolve that Ransack gives you in order to hit the mitigation hard cap? I'm used to tank builds that go a little bit over the resistance needed to hit the hard cap without any Minor Resolve buffs.

No. But when ppl force me to do smth because is a must i`l refuse to do it. And i found it funy when dd or even a healer try to educate tank how to play.

"Even a healer"? Wtf man.
I play a healer and tank, healed and tanked all trials and dungeons. I cant even express how silly your posts are.
What kind of attitude is it? "Someone asked me to do X - Oh noes, Ill never do that, theyre just some dds and healers, I will never listen to them!". Thats not what a team player (and a good tank is always a team player) would say.

read the coment above your last/ cant change morphs for dungeon runs most of then can be run without tank even. With curent CP sistem and with litle skills from the platyer every tank build is viable / i mean you can do trials with pvp tanking build wuthout problems./ I dont need sm1 to teach me how to play. If everything is smooth in dungeon then no reason to spend money or to min max only to finish it 2-5 min faster....

Actually, the tank in question didnt even have the skill, morphed or not.
And the morph doesnt matter that much as long as someone can apply ele drain or both dds are stamina based. So ofc no need to respec a pvp char just for some random dungeon runs. But it doesnt even make sense to use only exclusively undaunted taunt - its expensive, and puncture is dirt cheap.
I disagree about "tanking trials in pvp builds". Normal trials maybe, but a proper trial setup boosts the team so much its just stupid to neglect that just because you want to be unique. You just need to see the difference between trial pug and an optimized run.

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

If you want me to pick reduce ressit morph over increase armor one, just to booost your slacky skiny dps arses, then you are wrong.

Does your tank build actually need the Minor Resolve that Ransack gives you in order to hit the mitigation hard cap? I'm used to tank builds that go a little bit over the resistance needed to hit the hard cap without any Minor Resolve buffs.

No. But when ppl force me to do smth because is a must i`l refuse to do it. And i found it funy when dd or even a healer try to educate tank how to play.

"Even a healer"? Wtf man.
I play a healer and tank, healed and tanked all trials and dungeons. I cant even express how silly your posts are.
What kind of attitude is it? "Someone asked me to do X - Oh noes, Ill never do that, theyre just some dds and healers, I will never listen to them!". Thats not what a team player (and a good tank is always a team player) would say.

Being a team player does not mean you let other players boss you around and tell you how to play.

I would be tempted to react in exactly the same fashion if someone tried to force me to do something also. I would refuse just out of principle alone - even if what they were demanding was an intelligent option.

You get better results when one asks nicely and doesn't try to force or push their own opinions onto someone else.

First of all, some people tend to think that even a very friendly advice is a despicable insult.

I stopped you here because you are setting up a misleading premise that is not relevant to my comments. Because that is not what happened here.

Offering friendly advice is different than telling another player it's their job to use the ability you want them to. Which is what happened here.

I have no problems with friendly suggestions. What I do have a problem with is when certain players believe they have a right to tell others exactly how to play - and then throw a tantrum when they aren't obeyed.

Hmm but topicstarter says:

DoccEff wrote: »

The phrase I was using (don't have this part screenshotted so I can't quote it 1 to 1) was something like: "can you pls use the other taunt to debuff the boss?"

I dont see anything wrong with that, honestly.

Edit: ofc it was tank's right to ignore the topicstarter. But he also had a right to refuse playing with this tank... And that's what unique bow healers, tanks with 0 support and dds that pull less dps than average tank should understand.

Dubhliam · November 2016

Jeremy wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

If you want me to pick reduce ressit morph over increase armor one, just to booost your slacky skiny dps arses, then you are wrong.

Does your tank build actually need the Minor Resolve that Ransack gives you in order to hit the mitigation hard cap? I'm used to tank builds that go a little bit over the resistance needed to hit the hard cap without any Minor Resolve buffs.

No. But when ppl force me to do smth because is a must i`l refuse to do it. And i found it funy when dd or even a healer try to educate tank how to play.

"Even a healer"? Wtf man.
I play a healer and tank, healed and tanked all trials and dungeons. I cant even express how silly your posts are.
What kind of attitude is it? "Someone asked me to do X - Oh noes, Ill never do that, theyre just some dds and healers, I will never listen to them!". Thats not what a team player (and a good tank is always a team player) would say.

Being a team player does not mean you let other players boss you around and tell you how to play.

I would be tempted to react in exactly the same fashion if someone tried to force me to do something also. I would refuse just out of principle alone - even if what they were demanding was an intelligent option.

You get better results when one asks nicely and doesn't try to force or push their own opinions onto someone else.

What are you? Three?

It is not just three year olds who have an issue with others thinking they have some right to order you about and tell you exactly how to play your games. That would probably include most adults as well (though you might be the exception and enjoy complete strangers demanding that you play like they want. I don't know).

Mature individuals usually know how to ask something nicely or with respect.

And if anything is acting like a 3 year old it is having a tantrum on a video game simply because another player does not slot an ability you like. Which is essentially what happened in this situation.

The bottom line here is this: if you want people to respond to your suggestions in a constructive manner - then suggest them in a respectful way. Otherwise, you have nothing but yourself to blame for what comes after.

When I start going to driving school, and somebody tells me I should drive on the right side of the road, I don't intentionally go drive the left side of the road because...
well *** them!

Cherryblossom · November 2016

I'm confused, are you saying the tank was using Ransack? rather than Pierce armour? Or was he not using sword and shield?
Inner light gives a synergie which deals damage, which will also increase damage, were you not using it?

If this is the case you know he can't change mid dungeon right? Also why shouldn't he use a skill that means he survives longer.

Also I believe that the one hand and shield skill is bugged and removes elemental drain.

On another note, not sure why he had so much health.

Dubhliam · November 2016

Cherryblossom wrote: »

I'm confused, are you saying the tank was using Ransack? rather than Pierce armour? Or was he not using sword and shield?
Inner light gives a synergie which deals damage, which will also increase damage, were you not using it?

If this is the case you know he can't change mid dungeon right? Also why shouldn't he use a skill that means he survives longer.

Also I believe that the one hand and shield skill is bugged and removes elemental drain.

On another note, not sure why he had so much health.

The guy was using Inner Fire only.
He didn't have Puncture, let alone any morph of it.

If the boss is debuffed, the group's DPS will benefit passively by around 10%.
If one of the DDs has to press a Synergy, he actually loses DPS because the damage from the Inner Fire synergy is lower than ANY damage skill that DD could have used during that one second instead. The other DD does not lose DPS, because only one can activate a Synergy for each Inner Fire cast. Unless the tank was spamming Inner Fire, meaning he would lose all of his resources really fast, because Inner Fire costs over 4k mag or stam.

And finally, NO, it does not remove Elemental Drain.

There is no excuse for not using any morph of Puncture as a tank, stop trying to justify it.

xblackroxe · November 2016

UrQuan wrote: »

mrowmrif2 wrote: »

I had a similar experience of derrrrrrp a couple weeks ago in VoM1... some dps from the grouping tool pug i was in didnt tell us he needed the quest, so my two friends and i were steamrolling it. Dude proceeded to tell us off out of nowhere, which was shocking. "F*** YOU! You ruined this whole dungeon for me! I am trying to read the story but you keep moving on!" Thanks for letting us know in advance? Here we thought he was just dragging his ass between rooms...

But unlike your tank, our *** hung around through the end boss for completion. Yay awkward silence... it isnt like we were going to kick the poor antisocial newblet... but certainly yet another case against running anything with random people.

That's on you and your friends as much as it's on him. Should he have mentioned at or near the beginning of the dungeon that he's doing the quest and wants to take the time to read all the story? Yes. Should you ask at the start of any dungeon with people you don't always run with whether anyone is doing the dungeon quest? Yes. Should you have noticed that he was always standing at the locations where he'd be interacting with quest NPCs and not rushing between rooms and realized he was doing the quest? Yes.

This is a case where both parties were in the wrong, and as a result both parties had a bad experience.

I'm sorry but i have to disaggree on this one.

If you want to do smth different other than a normal dungeon run (kill trash kill boss repeat till done) open your mouth and say so.
I'm not gonna open my map and look where everybody is all the time and neither do I know all the quest locations by heart. So don't tell me its my fault that a guy that doesn't open his mouth has to skip quest.

Asardes · November 2016

I use Inner Fire on just a handful of boss fights in this game:
- Kinlord Rilis in BC2, mostly on the daedroths
- Vila Theran in FG2, as melee taunt is not available at all times
- Nerien'eth in CoH2, mostly on the ghosts
- Ash Titan and his adds in CoA2, because the adds need to be kited around while avoiding damage from their AoE
- The dwarven Centurions in Volenfell, because they have a nasty AoE that can't always be blocked
- Iskra the Omen in VoM that jumps around a lot.
- Molag Kena in WGT, just before the shield breaks, to have aggro as soon as she becomes vulnerable
- Ibomez, mostly to grab any stray atronachs, and Lord Warden Dusk in ICP, because he teleports around and it may take time to reach and melee taunt, especially with portals moving, also useful to grab aggro on all shades - only ones takes damage at a time so only that one needs debuff
- Velidreth in CoS, just once, when emerging from the labyrinth, to be sure she doesn't attack other players
- The axes in AA, until they move away from the group, may reuse it once or twice because stamina is very precious in that fight, they don't take damage themselves, so debuff is not necessary.

117Dios · November 2016

So, I'm still grasping the basics for the tank role and I have only 1 bar for it, but as far as it goes it is:

-S&B: the skill that makes the enemy do less damage
- Puncture
- Green Dragon Blood
- Igneus Weapons
- Chocking talons
- Magma Shell (Planning to switch to the Horn from Assault skill line)

am I right in thinking that the tank's job is to keep the DDs alive by not making them receive damage, unlike the healers that mend the damage they receive?

Back on track, I noticed that the majority of people are not A-holes, but I usually found the nasty minority during my runs as Healer. No idea why, seems that if you talk as a healer you are more prone to get bashed.

Asardes · November 2016

It's best to have frequently used skills on one bar, and and the ones you use less often on the other bar, so you switch less often

My bar combo for thash looks like this:

Main bar:
1. Pierce Armor
2. Heroic Slash
3. Unrelenting Grip / Absorb Magic
4. Ingenous Shields
5. Dragon Fire Scales / Shuffle
U. Magma Shell

Back Bar:
1. Noxious Breath
2. Choking Talons / Ring of Preservation / Retreating Maneuver
3. Ingenous Weapons / Green Dragon Blood
4. Cinder Storm / Resolving Vigor
5. Volatile Armor
U. Standard of Might / Aggressive Warhorn

On a standard trash pull I do something like:
1. Ingenous weapons to buff everyone (major sorcery and brutality for almost 40s and minor brutality for 20s for the group)
2. Cinder storm from a distance to slow them and grab aggro temporarily (70% speed reduction for 20s)
3. Choking talons to root them and debuff them (minor maim for 4 s)
4. Noxious Breath to debuff them for physical AoE (Major Fracture, same as Puncture/Ransack for 8s)
5. Volatile Armor to add one more DoT and buff my resistance (Major Ward and Major Resolve for 20s)
6. Switch bar and chain any stragglers and taunt immediately with pierce armor
7. Pierce armor everything, starting with the bigger ones
8. Heroic slash on the bigger ones, interrupt any channels
9. Ingenous shields or dragon fire scale to defend from attacks that can't be interrupted

Sometimes I also drop an ult if I consider the trash pull is dangerous enough. Usually from heavy attack and heroic weaving, using earthen heart abilities and Bloodspawn I generate ~5 ult/sec on average and I'm able to drop a standard or a horn every 50s or so in sustained fights.

So a proper tank actually has a rotation. I use those 9-10 skills within 15-20s, sometimes even faster, debuffing and slowing enemies, buffing the other group members damage and/or stats, shielding them and doing a small amount of DoT. A tank that just taunts and blocks is just dead weight. If he uses just inner fire even more so.

UrQuan · November 2016

xblackroxe wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

mrowmrif2 wrote: »

I had a similar experience of derrrrrrp a couple weeks ago in VoM1... some dps from the grouping tool pug i was in didnt tell us he needed the quest, so my two friends and i were steamrolling it. Dude proceeded to tell us off out of nowhere, which was shocking. "F*** YOU! You ruined this whole dungeon for me! I am trying to read the story but you keep moving on!" Thanks for letting us know in advance? Here we thought he was just dragging his ass between rooms...

But unlike your tank, our *** hung around through the end boss for completion. Yay awkward silence... it isnt like we were going to kick the poor antisocial newblet... but certainly yet another case against running anything with random people.

That's on you and your friends as much as it's on him. Should he have mentioned at or near the beginning of the dungeon that he's doing the quest and wants to take the time to read all the story? Yes. Should you ask at the start of any dungeon with people you don't always run with whether anyone is doing the dungeon quest? Yes. Should you have noticed that he was always standing at the locations where he'd be interacting with quest NPCs and not rushing between rooms and realized he was doing the quest? Yes.

This is a case where both parties were in the wrong, and as a result both parties had a bad experience.

I'm sorry but i have to disaggree on this one.

If you want to do smth different other than a normal dungeon run (kill trash kill boss repeat till done) open your mouth and say so.
I'm not gonna open my map and look where everybody is all the time and neither do I know all the quest locations by heart. So don't tell me its my fault that a guy that doesn't open his mouth has to skip quest.

It's called common courtesy. I'm sorry you don't believe in it.

cbaudersub17_ESO · November 2016

117Dios wrote: »

No idea why, seems that if you talk as a healer you are more prone to get bashed.

The following training video may help furnish an answer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DxS7eT_ky4

A training video on being a tank exists, also.

Jeremy · November 2016

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

If you want me to pick reduce ressit morph over increase armor one, just to booost your slacky skiny dps arses, then you are wrong.

Does your tank build actually need the Minor Resolve that Ransack gives you in order to hit the mitigation hard cap? I'm used to tank builds that go a little bit over the resistance needed to hit the hard cap without any Minor Resolve buffs.

No. But when ppl force me to do smth because is a must i`l refuse to do it. And i found it funy when dd or even a healer try to educate tank how to play.

"Even a healer"? Wtf man.
I play a healer and tank, healed and tanked all trials and dungeons. I cant even express how silly your posts are.
What kind of attitude is it? "Someone asked me to do X - Oh noes, Ill never do that, theyre just some dds and healers, I will never listen to them!". Thats not what a team player (and a good tank is always a team player) would say.

Being a team player does not mean you let other players boss you around and tell you how to play.

I would be tempted to react in exactly the same fashion if someone tried to force me to do something also. I would refuse just out of principle alone - even if what they were demanding was an intelligent option.

You get better results when one asks nicely and doesn't try to force or push their own opinions onto someone else.

First of all, some people tend to think that even a very friendly advice is a despicable insult.
Secondly, sometimes "I play MY way and you have no right to give me advices!!!!11!!" blocks everyone's progress. Time is precious, and it doesnt make any sense to make things more complicated for everyone including yourself.
For example, I did a Spindle 1 pug the other day, when it was a pledge. Our tank was kinda squishy but it wasnt a problem until the last boss. He just refused to dodge her big aoe... And died every time she did it. Groups dps wasnt extremely high, so rezzing him all the time significantly slowed us down.
Or many times when I pugged WGT (I know its stupid, but I had some horrendous rng with Spc set), and dds/tank jsut refused to pick the pinion. Just out of principle, yes.
And many other failed runs, where various team members caused wipes because they didnt want to listen.
So... I honestly dont think this kind of "principles" works in group content. Sometimes it requires compromises.

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

If you want me to pick reduce ressit morph over increase armor one, just to booost your slacky skiny dps arses, then you are wrong.

Does your tank build actually need the Minor Resolve that Ransack gives you in order to hit the mitigation hard cap? I'm used to tank builds that go a little bit over the resistance needed to hit the hard cap without any Minor Resolve buffs.

No. But when ppl force me to do smth because is a must i`l refuse to do it. And i found it funy when dd or even a healer try to educate tank how to play.

"Even a healer"? Wtf man.
I play a healer and tank, healed and tanked all trials and dungeons. I cant even express how silly your posts are.
What kind of attitude is it? "Someone asked me to do X - Oh noes, Ill never do that, theyre just some dds and healers, I will never listen to them!". Thats not what a team player (and a good tank is always a team player) would say.

read the coment above your last/ cant change morphs for dungeon runs most of then can be run without tank even. With curent CP sistem and with litle skills from the platyer every tank build is viable / i mean you can do trials with pvp tanking build wuthout problems./ I dont need sm1 to teach me how to play. If everything is smooth in dungeon then no reason to spend money or to min max only to finish it 2-5 min faster....

Actually, the tank in question didnt even have the skill, morphed or not.
And the morph doesnt matter that much as long as someone can apply ele drain or both dds are stamina based. So ofc no need to respec a pvp char just for some random dungeon runs. But it doesnt even make sense to use only exclusively undaunted taunt - its expensive, and puncture is dirt cheap.
I disagree about "tanking trials in pvp builds". Normal trials maybe, but a proper trial setup boosts the team so much its just stupid to neglect that just because you want to be unique. You just need to see the difference between trial pug and an optimized run.

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

If you want me to pick reduce ressit morph over increase armor one, just to booost your slacky skiny dps arses, then you are wrong.

Does your tank build actually need the Minor Resolve that Ransack gives you in order to hit the mitigation hard cap? I'm used to tank builds that go a little bit over the resistance needed to hit the hard cap without any Minor Resolve buffs.

No. But when ppl force me to do smth because is a must i`l refuse to do it. And i found it funy when dd or even a healer try to educate tank how to play.

"Even a healer"? Wtf man.
I play a healer and tank, healed and tanked all trials and dungeons. I cant even express how silly your posts are.
What kind of attitude is it? "Someone asked me to do X - Oh noes, Ill never do that, theyre just some dds and healers, I will never listen to them!". Thats not what a team player (and a good tank is always a team player) would say.

Being a team player does not mean you let other players boss you around and tell you how to play.

I would be tempted to react in exactly the same fashion if someone tried to force me to do something also. I would refuse just out of principle alone - even if what they were demanding was an intelligent option.

You get better results when one asks nicely and doesn't try to force or push their own opinions onto someone else.

First of all, some people tend to think that even a very friendly advice is a despicable insult.

I stopped you here because you are setting up a misleading premise that is not relevant to my comments. Because that is not what happened here.

Offering friendly advice is different than telling another player it's their job to use the ability you want them to. Which is what happened here.

I have no problems with friendly suggestions. What I do have a problem with is when certain players believe they have a right to tell others exactly how to play - and then throw a tantrum when they aren't obeyed.

Hmm but topicstarter says:

DoccEff wrote: »

The phrase I was using (don't have this part screenshotted so I can't quote it 1 to 1) was something like: "can you pls use the other taunt to debuff the boss?"

I dont see anything wrong with that, honestly.

Edit: ofc it was tank's right to ignore the topicstarter. But he also had a right to refuse playing with this tank... And that's what unique bow healers, tanks with 0 support and dds that pull less dps than average tank should understand.

But it didn't end there. The OP went on to tell the tank that it was his job to do as he asked, and that all the other tanks did it, suggesting that he was somehow lacking by comparison. It put a negative spotlight on the tank (implying that he was the cause for the wipe)- and I can understand why he took offense and left.

What I think really happened here is that the healer got frustrated because of the wipe and took it out on the tank. The debuff or whatever was just the excuse he or she used.

I have been in a lot of groups where the DPS was not strong enough to kill the adds before that boss killed the targeted player. That's one of the more difficult bosses for pugs. City of Ash II has a couple too. So does Dark Shade Caverns II. So players who are easily aggravated and expect flawless pug runs should probably refrain from using the dungeon finder to do these. Newer DPS who are still learning the ropes are likely going to have problems in these.

Runkorko · November 2016

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/303338/so-i-was-a-tank-read-if-your-not-a-tank#latest

Read it and keep silence.

Saraya · April 2017

I got through eight pages and had thought of a good long post (not that kids can be bothered to read) that would respectfully approach all points and counter points.

Then it dawned on me, why bother? All the whiners in here are probably members of antifa, and you can't reason with five year olds.

I did however make my decision on a morph choice which I was actually searching for before finding this thread, so all is good! Thanks college kids and hipsters.

[Deleted User] · April 2017

The user and all related content has been deleted.

wolfdoggie_ESO · April 2017

But... What about Magicka Ice Tank?

ZOS_Bill · April 2017

This thread has been closed since it's from several months ago and may contain outdated information. If there are no active threads on this topic you are welcome to start a new one.