Still no auction house, seriously??

Lucius_Aelius · November 2016

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

This system definitely needs some work but I firmly believe it should stay essentially as it is. As always my main suggestions to make it better are to completely rework the search interface to allow for proper searches to be made in addition to filters for the results (and for searches to be remembered when going from ine trader to the next), and for players to be able to sell in any trader they want for a higher automatic cut to the Guild who owns it (with a new permission for Guilds to allow those with it to set minimum prices for all items sold at that Guild's Trader to prevent non-Guild members from undercutting Guild members).

That's not all a perfect fix, but it solves a lot of the problems people have with it, and I think these conversations about improvements would be a lot less divisive and more constructive if that's the system we were playing with and looking to make better. Ultimately though I think this Guild Trader system is better for this game certainly than any auction house could be, and that decentralized is the best way to go. You should always have to work for it and talk to different traders if you want the best deals, or work for getting things yourself if that's too much trouble, having things too readily available for cheap would only serve to cheapen the experience of playing the game altogether and acquiring loot for yourself.

improved trade ui.... absolutely

use a trader while not being a member of that guild... no

fixed minimum prices... absolutely not.

Fixed minimum prices set by the Guild Officers to prevent undercutting, what could be wrong with that? It's not the most important aspect but I'm curious as to why you'd say that, and just saying "no" with zero justification for your position is less than meaningless.

And what do you have against players being able to get some good out of this system without being in a trade guild themselves? It's the number 1 complaint that people have which this would effectively solve in one move that (especially with minimum prices) has no drawbacks for the Guilds who are currently benefiting from this system, everyone wins and nobody loses. So again, why? Just saying "no" means less than nothing, support your position with specific, logical arguments for why you don't agree or don't bother posting at all, as it stands your first response is a pointless waste of space.

jedtb16_ESO · November 2016

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

This system definitely needs some work but I firmly believe it should stay essentially as it is. As always my main suggestions to make it better are to completely rework the search interface to allow for proper searches to be made in addition to filters for the results (and for searches to be remembered when going from ine trader to the next), and for players to be able to sell in any trader they want for a higher automatic cut to the Guild who owns it (with a new permission for Guilds to allow those with it to set minimum prices for all items sold at that Guild's Trader to prevent non-Guild members from undercutting Guild members).

That's not all a perfect fix, but it solves a lot of the problems people have with it, and I think these conversations about improvements would be a lot less divisive and more constructive if that's the system we were playing with and looking to make better. Ultimately though I think this Guild Trader system is better for this game certainly than any auction house could be, and that decentralized is the best way to go. You should always have to work for it and talk to different traders if you want the best deals, or work for getting things yourself if that's too much trouble, having things too readily available for cheap would only serve to cheapen the experience of playing the game altogether and acquiring loot for yourself.

improved trade ui.... absolutely

use a trader while not being a member of that guild... no

fixed minimum prices... absolutely not.

Fixed minimum prices set by the Guild Officers to prevent undercutting, what could be wrong with that? It's not the most important aspect but I'm curious as to why you'd say that, and just saying "no" with zero justification for your position is less than meaningless.

And what do you have against players being able to get some good out of this system without being in a trade guild themselves? It's the number 1 complaint that people have which this would effectively solve in one move that (especially with minimum prices) has no drawbacks for the Guilds who are currently benefiting from this system, everyone wins and nobody loses. So again, why? Just saying "no" means less than nothing, support your position with specific, logical arguments for why you don't agree or don't bother posting at all, as it stands your first response is a pointless waste of space.

my stuff.... i choose the price

my post.... i choose what i do and do not say.

Lucius_Aelius · November 2016

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

This system definitely needs some work but I firmly believe it should stay essentially as it is. As always my main suggestions to make it better are to completely rework the search interface to allow for proper searches to be made in addition to filters for the results (and for searches to be remembered when going from ine trader to the next), and for players to be able to sell in any trader they want for a higher automatic cut to the Guild who owns it (with a new permission for Guilds to allow those with it to set minimum prices for all items sold at that Guild's Trader to prevent non-Guild members from undercutting Guild members).

That's not all a perfect fix, but it solves a lot of the problems people have with it, and I think these conversations about improvements would be a lot less divisive and more constructive if that's the system we were playing with and looking to make better. Ultimately though I think this Guild Trader system is better for this game certainly than any auction house could be, and that decentralized is the best way to go. You should always have to work for it and talk to different traders if you want the best deals, or work for getting things yourself if that's too much trouble, having things too readily available for cheap would only serve to cheapen the experience of playing the game altogether and acquiring loot for yourself.

improved trade ui.... absolutely

use a trader while not being a member of that guild... no

fixed minimum prices... absolutely not.

Fixed minimum prices set by the Guild Officers to prevent undercutting, what could be wrong with that? It's not the most important aspect but I'm curious as to why you'd say that, and just saying "no" with zero justification for your position is less than meaningless.

And what do you have against players being able to get some good out of this system without being in a trade guild themselves? It's the number 1 complaint that people have which this would effectively solve in one move that (especially with minimum prices) has no drawbacks for the Guilds who are currently benefiting from this system, everyone wins and nobody loses. So again, why? Just saying "no" means less than nothing, support your position with specific, logical arguments for why you don't agree or don't bother posting at all, as it stands your first response is a pointless waste of space.

my stuff.... i choose the price

my post.... i choose what i do and do not say.

Okay, good luck finding a decent trading guild then since all the good ones have minimum prices set for the highest selling items anyway, as well as rules against undercutting (albeit something that the officers have to manage themselves in the current system), and also this is the easiest argument I've ever won because if you have nothing to back up your position then everything you've said is utterly meaningless and can justly be completely ignored by myself and everyone else alike. Get back to me when you decide to join us adults in an actual conversation with something besides "nuh-uhhh."

Solus · November 2016

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

This system definitely needs some work but I firmly believe it should stay essentially as it is. As always my main suggestions to make it better are to completely rework the search interface to allow for proper searches to be made in addition to filters for the results (and for searches to be remembered when going from ine trader to the next), and for players to be able to sell in any trader they want for a higher automatic cut to the Guild who owns it (with a new permission for Guilds to allow those with it to set minimum prices for all items sold at that Guild's Trader to prevent non-Guild members from undercutting Guild members).

That's not all a perfect fix, but it solves a lot of the problems people have with it, and I think these conversations about improvements would be a lot less divisive and more constructive if that's the system we were playing with and looking to make better. Ultimately though I think this Guild Trader system is better for this game certainly than any auction house could be, and that decentralized is the best way to go. You should always have to work for it and talk to different traders if you want the best deals, or work for getting things yourself if that's too much trouble, having things too readily available for cheap would only serve to cheapen the experience of playing the game altogether and acquiring loot for yourself.

improved trade ui.... absolutely

use a trader while not being a member of that guild... no

fixed minimum prices... absolutely not.

Fixed minimum prices set by the Guild Officers to prevent undercutting, what could be wrong with that? It's not the most important aspect but I'm curious as to why you'd say that, and just saying "no" with zero justification for your position is less than meaningless.

And what do you have against players being able to get some good out of this system without being in a trade guild themselves? It's the number 1 complaint that people have which this would effectively solve in one move that (especially with minimum prices) has no drawbacks for the Guilds who are currently benefiting from this system, everyone wins and nobody loses. So again, why? Just saying "no" means less than nothing, support your position with specific, logical arguments for why you don't agree or don't bother posting at all, as it stands your first response is a pointless waste of space.

my stuff.... i choose the price

my post.... i choose what i do and do not say.

Okay, good luck finding a decent trading guild then since all the good ones have minimum prices set for the highest selling items anyway, as well as rules against undercutting (albeit something that the officers have to manage themselves in the current system), and also this is the easiest argument I've ever won because if you have nothing to back up your position then everything you've said is utterly meaningless and can justly be completely ignored by myself and everyone else alike. Get back to me when you decide to join us adults in an actual conversation with something besides "nuh-uhhh."

where is this a thing? Im in ETU and spicy economics. Both in Rawl'Kha I set a price for something (was one of the few who had spriggan sharp weapons for sale in the first few days, and spriggan jewelry) and now that my stuff has been posted and sitting for a week or more, people will literally post the same thing for THOUSANDS less than what its worth.

So i had to re-enter my items so they would sell. If they put an item for 35k i put it for 34,999k. Thats my "EFF YOU" to those people. seriously that screws the economy of what we find. Sure you could find the same items for less in chat, but those people doing that are artificially deflating the price of the items. like you couldve just did what i did and make it one gold less than what i posted. That way you STILL sell for the high price, but also before me. I dont care if people do that. The stuff i post usually sell within a week. sometimes less.

Pallmor · November 2016

Let me summarize again, for people who seem to be missing my point:

1) You shouldn't have to join a guild just to sell stuff in the game.

2) I don't consider spamming chat to be a reasonable alternative.

As for the suggestion that there be an option to sell stuff at a vendor as a non-member (with the guild taking a bigger cut), I would be okay with that. Anything beats either being forced to join a trade guild or manually spamming chat with a hundred items.

Korah_Eaglecry · November 2016

Selling at less than one gold than what another is listing is not harming the economy. Just your wallet. If you feel you dont have to fluctuate your prices to stay COMPETITIVE with your competitors than your loss of profits are on you. Theres many things that go into the value of an item and one individual does not get to be the end all be all to what anything is worth within the game world economy. At the end of the day that guy that listed for one less gold is going to walk away with profit. And you wont. Theres nothing about the system that demands he be "fair" to you or that your idea of "fair" is actually fair to him.

SaibotLiu · November 2016

Solus wrote: »

So i had to re-enter my items so they would sell. If they put an item for 35k i put it for 34,999k. Thats my "EFF YOU" to those people. seriously that screws the economy of what we find.

My f you comes when I dont buy stuff listed for one gold cheaper. If you're going to undercut it had best be by a reasonable amount to be worth my trouble browsing it. I see price listings like that and intentionally buy the one priced conventionally and generally assume the one gold undercutter is a cad.

Solus · November 2016

SaibotLiu wrote: »

Solus wrote: »

So i had to re-enter my items so they would sell. If they put an item for 35k i put it for 34,999k. Thats my "EFF YOU" to those people. seriously that screws the economy of what we find.

My f you comes when I dont buy stuff listed for one gold cheaper. If you're going to undercut it had best be by a reasonable amount to be worth my trouble browsing it. I see price listings like that and intentionally buy the one priced conventionally and generally assume the one gold undercutter is a cad.

Your logic makes no sense. So its okay to screw over guild mates and completely destroy the economy of an item just to quickly sell something, instead of everyone agreeing to a set price? What trouble browsing? oh you mean the one minute it took to type in your item and clicking a few buttons.

Dont want to over work you too much. Im mad because people take something thats worth 50k and sell it for 20k. [snip] those people. Not only are you not getting your moneys worth, by selling something cheaper than what it's worth, but you screw literally everyone else that is selling the same item, not only in your guild, but everyone else, other traders whos prices are similar.

Solus · November 2016

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Selling at less than one gold than what another is listing is not harming the economy. Just your wallet. If you feel you dont have to fluctuate your prices to stay COMPETITIVE with your competitors than your loss of profits are on you. Theres many things that go into the value of an item and one individual does not get to be the end all be all to what anything is worth within the game world economy. At the end of the day that guy that listed for one less gold is going to walk away with profit. And you wont. Theres nothing about the system that demands he be "fair" to you or that your idea of "fair" is actually fair to him.

Im talking about people that sell something for 20k when the norm is 50k. My item was posted a long time ago, and someone else comes in and completely low balls everyone else. Which has happened to me. Someone even tried ripping me off by saying a certain weapon goes for 150k, sold the same weapon at the trader for 375k

SaibotLiu · November 2016

Solus wrote: »

SaibotLiu wrote: »

Solus wrote: »

So i had to re-enter my items so they would sell. If they put an item for 35k i put it for 34,999k. Thats my "EFF YOU" to those people. seriously that screws the economy of what we find.

My f you comes when I dont buy stuff listed for one gold cheaper. If you're going to undercut it had best be by a reasonable amount to be worth my trouble browsing it. I see price listings like that and intentionally buy the one priced conventionally and generally assume the one gold undercutter is a cad.

Your logic makes no sense. So its okay to screw over guild mates and completely destroy the economy of an item just to quickly sell something, instead of everyone agreeing to a set price? What trouble browsing? oh you mean the one minute it took to type in your item and clicking a few buttons.

Dont want to over work you too much. Im mad because people take something thats worth 50k and sell it for 20k. [snip] those people. Not only are you not getting your moneys worth, by selling something cheaper than what it's worth, but you screw literally everyone else that is selling the same item, not only in your guild, but to everyone else

It's nothing to do with logic, it's principle. If you want your item to sell first then actually entice me to buy yours first by giving a proper price cut, or put it at the same price and Ill flip a coin. By undercutting by such a ridiculous amount you're showing that you're unwilling to actually take less gold and hence havent earned more consideration for your sale than those you mean to compete with. So no sale for you.

lol Speaking of terrible logic. If you're so convinced of the true value of an item then put your money where your mouth is and buy it at more than half price and resell. People join trade guilds to sell stuff, not this altruistic vision of helping other members that you're on about whilst hurling profanities at them. lol Yeah sounds like you just wanna help your poor guildies.

And typing something and a couple of clicks is worth more than one gold to me. So yes stop wasting my time with *** undercuts.

Solus wrote: »

Im talking about people that sell something for 20k when the norm is 50k. My item was posted a long time ago and someone else comes in and completely low balls everyone else. Which has happened to me. Someone even tried ripping me off by saying a certain weapon goes for 150k, sold the same weapon at the trader for 375k

If your item was posted "a long time ago" and hasnt sold, you priced it too high. So other members of your trade guild are obligated to use your price as a guide and also not sell their items. Plz tell us more.

Solus · November 2016

SaibotLiu wrote: »

Solus wrote: »

SaibotLiu wrote: »

Solus wrote: »

So i had to re-enter my items so they would sell. If they put an item for 35k i put it for 34,999k. Thats my "EFF YOU" to those people. seriously that screws the economy of what we find.

My f you comes when I dont buy stuff listed for one gold cheaper. If you're going to undercut it had best be by a reasonable amount to be worth my trouble browsing it. I see price listings like that and intentionally buy the one priced conventionally and generally assume the one gold undercutter is a cad.

Your logic makes no sense. So its okay to screw over guild mates and completely destroy the economy of an item just to quickly sell something, instead of everyone agreeing to a set price? What trouble browsing? oh you mean the one minute it took to type in your item and clicking a few buttons.

Dont want to over work you too much. Im mad because people take something thats worth 50k and sell it for 20k. [snip] those people. Not only are you not getting your moneys worth, by selling something cheaper than what it's worth, but you screw literally everyone else that is selling the same item, not only in your guild, but to everyone else

buy it at more than half price and resell. People join trade guilds to sell stuff, not this altruistic vision of helping other members that you're on about whilst hurling profanities at them.

And typing something and a couple of clicks is worth more than one gold to me. So yes stop wasting my time with *** undercuts.

Solus wrote: »

Im talking about people that sell something for 20k when the norm is 50k. My item was posted a long time ago and someone else comes in and completely low balls everyone else. Which has happened to me. Someone even tried ripping me off by saying a certain weapon goes for 150k, sold the same weapon at the trader for 375k

If your item was posted "a long time ago" and hasnt sold, you priced it too high. So other members of your trade guild are obligated to use your price as a guide and also not sell their items. Plz tell us more.

Just FYI, because by your response it sounds like you arent in a trade guild, listings stay for 30 days. Ive never had anything stay for more than half of that time. So if something sits, its not because i priced something too high, its because other people have spammed items at a lowball price.

If MM states an item is worth something, I take the average (which it conveniently gives me) and round it up. When someone prices something at, for example 15k, (like a spriggan's ring in purple) and they go for 30k easy i actually do buy out every single one that is underpriced and price it accordingly. What makes me mad is when people obviously dont know what they are doing when they post stuff (they dont do research, they dont look and see what others post, they just slap on some number and call it good) and dont know what they are doing. Low balling the rest of the guild doesnt make us happy, because you as the customer think "Oh this must be what this is going for now!"

And no. It isn't. People dont understand that if everyone kept pricing consistent and looked at other listings that everyone would make more money.

Just because someone sold a spriggan mace sharpened for 7k (yes, that did happen) doesnt mean thats what they go for.

Every day when i log on i usually sell out about 10-15 items per trade guild. The ones that sit are usually sharpened weapons, but i know that those arent in abundance. So my 375k per weapon stays, and yes they dont sell every day, they still do sell, as nobody is finding a ton of those.

Glurin · November 2016

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

Fixed minimum prices set by the Guild Officers to prevent undercutting, what could be wrong with that?

You could learn some real world history to find out the answer to that question if you really want to know.

SublimeSparo · November 2016

Skcarkden wrote: »

Pallmor wrote: »

I just came back to ESO after having been off playing Neverwinter for a long time, and I forgot the most annoying aspect of this game: no auction house. So I'm sitting on a pile of purple and gold loot with no way to sell it unless I find a trade guild.

I forgot how much it SUCKS SUCKS SUCKS SUCKS to play an MMO without an auction house, or any sort of decent trade system for us casual players to sell our stuff. Guess I'll have to sell my rare motifs, recipes, and sets to a freaking vendor for 17 gold. Woo hoo!!

Well, a least ESO finally got events--after just 2.5 years. Maybe by sometime in 2020, they'll add an option for us to trade stuff too.

Unfortunately you get these players who believe the 'game' *is* all about walking and arduously searching for a very specific item without proper search functions of search memory or search favourites to speed up the process (I'm sure these fools will also argue that being able to set favourite search items would be too much and ruin the 'game'). They even make stupid excuses against it too like "rich people will just buy everyone low and sell higher if it's all in one easy place to find" so where would all this money go then? say if i listed multiples of one item and some rich dude bought it all and re-sold for higher... would i not have sold anything? i would now have money and be able to buy things too, but they like to argue as if itss one sided and that if a rich guy buys everything and re-lists it, that they automatically get a sale even though people would eventually learn "other times people have sold it lower, i can wait"

It's not like these rich elite can just buy any item and list it for the max of 2.1b and be guaranteed to have a sale, but the Anti-AH fun police like to talk in ways that leads to that thought when they claim "the rich will just buy everything and resell for more" while ignoring the fact the people selling also get money out of it, and the gold sink in the AH fee would also eventually help with that.

Hell, I don't even care if their implied claims were fully true, because at least i have an easier access to a tool to sell my items.

right now? on console especially it's annoying, we FINALLYget text chat, and you know what? it's just garbage for the most part, although on PS4 i know how to link several items into one message, and know you can use the d-pad left/right to view each item linked in a single chat message, no one else seems to except the few asking me how i did it and i told them.

Chat's just endless item links and an AH would help reduce that but OH NO, the care bears who got into an action adventure game cry because they got into a game solely for being a trader and don't want to lose control and scream how they would leave if it were ever fixed.

edited to remove inflammatory comments

Teach me. Please.

SublimeSparo · November 2016

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Zolron wrote: »

.I've stated many times that I am pro-AH( not necessarily global). I mainly solo pve quest, enjoy the immersion, the lore, the vastness of Tamriel, the liveliness of seeing others run around, PVP, the list goes on, but tend to dis-like the politics of guilds ( at least in other games). I also dont subscribe to the opinion that everything will be bought up instantly and re-sold at a higher price monopoly theory ( plz don't go here, not my point ! )

Serious question here though...What would be wrong if they added a rogue vendor ( as someone else mentioned in this thread), one in each Capital city maybe? This vendor would allow ANYONE to list their wares for sale..Could this be abused ? I currently can't see how and consider this the best of both worlds maybe??

** Puts on flame retardant suit ** !!!!!

I suggested that before. But the Biggers guilds could just buy out the wares and put a strangle hold on things. I've seen post like this from the pc side, guilds buying out kiosks and not put anything there for sale. so yeah anything they do could be manipulated.

My point to this entire thread was not pro/anti AH. I'm not for AH, but the fact that the OP made it sound like he has no options to sell his stuff. He has options, he chooses not to use them. He could certainly use other options than guild trader, I sell alot of stuff through zone chat.

So basically due to the monopoly certain guilds/ people/ guild alliances have already established and how much money they have generated they already essentially control the markets, and have the power to deny other guilds from even getting a kiosk.
No wonder people don't want a global AH, with such a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. Why have to price competitively with the guild next door when you can just stop them getting kiosk's and selling to the public at all.

SaibotLiu · November 2016

Solus wrote: »

SaibotLiu wrote: »

Solus wrote: »

SaibotLiu wrote: »

Solus wrote: »

So i had to re-enter my items so they would sell. If they put an item for 35k i put it for 34,999k. Thats my "EFF YOU" to those people. seriously that screws the economy of what we find.

My f you comes when I dont buy stuff listed for one gold cheaper. If you're going to undercut it had best be by a reasonable amount to be worth my trouble browsing it. I see price listings like that and intentionally buy the one priced conventionally and generally assume the one gold undercutter is a cad.

Your logic makes no sense. So its okay to screw over guild mates and completely destroy the economy of an item just to quickly sell something, instead of everyone agreeing to a set price? What trouble browsing? oh you mean the one minute it took to type in your item and clicking a few buttons.

Dont want to over work you too much. Im mad because people take something thats worth 50k and sell it for 20k. [snip] those people. Not only are you not getting your moneys worth, by selling something cheaper than what it's worth, but you screw literally everyone else that is selling the same item, not only in your guild, but to everyone else

buy it at more than half price and resell. People join trade guilds to sell stuff, not this altruistic vision of helping other members that you're on about whilst hurling profanities at them.

And typing something and a couple of clicks is worth more than one gold to me. So yes stop wasting my time with *** undercuts.

Solus wrote: »

Im talking about people that sell something for 20k when the norm is 50k. My item was posted a long time ago and someone else comes in and completely low balls everyone else. Which has happened to me. Someone even tried ripping me off by saying a certain weapon goes for 150k, sold the same weapon at the trader for 375k

If your item was posted "a long time ago" and hasnt sold, you priced it too high. So other members of your trade guild are obligated to use your price as a guide and also not sell their items. Plz tell us more.

If MM states an item is worth something, I take the average (which it conveniently gives me) and round it up. When someone prices something at, for example 15k, (like a spriggan's ring in purple) and they go for 30k easy i actually do buy out every single one that is underpriced and price it accordingly. What makes me mad is when people obviously dont know what they are doing when they post stuff (they dont do research, they dont look and see what others post, they just slap on some number and call it good) and dont know what they are doing. Low balling the rest of the guild doesnt make us happy, because you as the customer think "Oh this must be what this is going for now!"

Wait, you just said that you buy up peoples stock when they are grossly underpriced and resell them, which is a legit practice and Ive done it myself. But then you go on to say it makes you mad when people underprice their stuff. That doesn't make any sense. If I was profiting from someone doing that I dont think it would make me mad at the same time.

I dont think you're being that honest about your motivations here. If people believe something is worth this much and someone is selling it for that much, then that's how much it is worth to those parties irrespective of outside commentary. If that practice is hurting your sales how is that even anyone elses problem? It's not. It seems you are having an issue moving one particular kind of item, and you're most likely the one overvaluing it.

silvermistktralasub17_ESO · November 2016

The reason that the poster is upset about people selling underpriced is that it interferes with tools like the Tamriel Trade thingy and MM, both of which give you averages, and if someone or three is selling something vastly underpriced, it skews the numbers. I've been in a guild that had to correct for someone selling tempers vastly underpriced about about a year ago. We got together, agreed on a base line, and started adjusting things by holding a contest for the people who sold a certain amount of gold tempers. It readjusted MM, though it took time to do that. It's something that's easy to skew, and hard to fix, in many cases.

Skcarkden · November 2016

LaiTash wrote: »

Skcarkden wrote: »

LaiTash wrote: »

Actually many games nowdays are trying to get away from AH if they're not designed to be a quick money grab. Surely AH makes life simplier for casuals, but they're bad for the game in the long run (just as any other thing that was designed purely with casuals in mind).

So which games have removed AH ?

I see people like to say games are leaving the AH concept, without actually naming any that have actually had an AH system and removed it.

Let me think: albion online (local auctions only), moonlight blade (La2 style), star citisen, chronicles of elyria, path of exile... want more?

As for new MMO's doing some things differently or not at all, doesn't mean it's for a good reason, sometimes you get a company who does things different just because they think they can do no wrong

As for old MMO holding for their dated AH mechanics it doesn't mean it's for a good reason as well. They can do whatever they want in brand new games, but if the game was here for several years already, making such changes is a bad move, because you have the population who already embrace the game as it is. That's the other reason why zeni will never add AH. Or open PvP. Or whatever.

Star Citizen never had an AH, so... back to my actual question, which games do you refer to which *removed* their AH?

Please note, to correctly answer this question the games you list have to have had an AH-like system and actually removed it, listing one that has never had it just won't count.

While at it, what's La2 style exactly?

Yes, ZoS did infact say they'll never add AH, they also said they'll never do gamble boxes so unless it's for legal matters of false advertising, i see no point in quoting ZoS on what they say.

I'm curious to hear your actual reason for why AH is allegedly 'dated' other than the fact it's clear you made that response to counter my point that just because a new-to-MMO's dev decides to make different choices doesn't mean it's a good move.

Ironic that you consider a game that has an AH as only a 'cash grab' game but not a game that refuses to have an ah but is actually doing cash grabbing choices such as crates. would you like to explain why AH is a 'cash grab'? Or can i just assume you're plainly anti-AH for no apparent reason?

Skcarkden · November 2016

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

This system definitely needs some work but I firmly believe it should stay essentially as it is. As always my main suggestions to make it better are to completely rework the search interface to allow for proper searches to be made in addition to filters for the results (and for searches to be remembered when going from ine trader to the next), and for players to be able to sell in any trader they want for a higher automatic cut to the Guild who owns it (with a new permission for Guilds to allow those with it to set minimum prices for all items sold at that Guild's Trader to prevent non-Guild members from undercutting Guild members).

That's not all a perfect fix, but it solves a lot of the problems people have with it, and I think these conversations about improvements would be a lot less divisive and more constructive if that's the system we were playing with and looking to make better. Ultimately though I think this Guild Trader system is better for this game certainly than any auction house could be, and that decentralized is the best way to go. You should always have to work for it and talk to different traders if you want the best deals, or work for getting things yourself if that's too much trouble, having things too readily available for cheap would only serve to cheapen the experience of playing the game altogether and acquiring loot for yourself.

improved trade ui.... absolutely

use a trader while not being a member of that guild... no

fixed minimum prices... absolutely not.

Fixed minimum prices set by the Guild Officers to prevent undercutting, what could be wrong with that? It's not the most important aspect but I'm curious as to why you'd say that, and just saying "no" with zero justification for your position is less than meaningless.

And what do you have against players being able to get some good out of this system without being in a trade guild themselves? It's the number 1 complaint that people have which this would effectively solve in one move that (especially with minimum prices) has no drawbacks for the Guilds who are currently benefiting from this system, everyone wins and nobody loses. So again, why? Just saying "no" means less than nothing, support your position with specific, logical arguments for why you don't agree or don't bother posting at all, as it stands your first response is a pointless waste of space.

No.

I mean, giving pricing power to the guild officer/owner is too far.

At least it made sense in runescape when they introduced the Grand Exchange (AH but with a more appropriate/accurate name), there is the average price an item typically sells for, and originally you could only deviate the price up or down by 5% of the average price, and the average would adjust accordingly based on how much someone sells below or above the average.

the 5% limit was eventually removed when the limits on trading directly from player to player was lifted again (a game where they weren't afraid to change their minds and admit to mistakes or bad choices)

But giving players the power to control what someone else sells their own items for? heck. no.

TERMINAT0R_XVII · November 2016

I would not rather let a handful of people monopolize that kind of system. I prefer Guild traders because its very hard to monopolize the market that way. If someone puts a temp alloy up in an auction house style trading for 40k everyone else does the same and no one would be able to get any. If you put it up for 10k one of those guys buys it up then re-lists it for 40k, effectively monopolizing the market. the trading system would be forever broken if it happened. Everyone would rather farm the materials, communication would be in the gutter, you see where I'm going with this? I would not like two WoWs thank you. I like this system, My lifetime gold count is apps 2.8mil since I started last year and looking forward to them improving Guild traders to the best they can be.

If you still want it after reading this then you must either be a WoW Fanboy who hates all other mmos, a troll looking to start conflicts or you have VERY little understanding how the trading system works.

LaiTash · November 2016

Skcarkden wrote: »

So which games have removed AH ?

I never said it's being removed. I said it's not being added to newer games.

Ironic that you consider a game that has an AH as only a 'cash grab' game but not a game that refuses to have an ah but is actually doing cash grabbing choices such as crates

YEEEEAH, 2 years after release they add RNG crates containing cosmetic items.

would you like to explain why AH is a 'cash grab'?

Because echonomic-wise it's a stupid mechanics designed only to appeal to casual players, because casual players like it when everything is the way it was in WOW. If i see a dev that prefer drawing more players even if it means bad economy, i say their game is a cash grab.

jedtb16_ESO · November 2016

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

This system definitely needs some work but I firmly believe it should stay essentially as it is. As always my main suggestions to make it better are to completely rework the search interface to allow for proper searches to be made in addition to filters for the results (and for searches to be remembered when going from ine trader to the next), and for players to be able to sell in any trader they want for a higher automatic cut to the Guild who owns it (with a new permission for Guilds to allow those with it to set minimum prices for all items sold at that Guild's Trader to prevent non-Guild members from undercutting Guild members).

That's not all a perfect fix, but it solves a lot of the problems people have with it, and I think these conversations about improvements would be a lot less divisive and more constructive if that's the system we were playing with and looking to make better. Ultimately though I think this Guild Trader system is better for this game certainly than any auction house could be, and that decentralized is the best way to go. You should always have to work for it and talk to different traders if you want the best deals, or work for getting things yourself if that's too much trouble, having things too readily available for cheap would only serve to cheapen the experience of playing the game altogether and acquiring loot for yourself.

improved trade ui.... absolutely

use a trader while not being a member of that guild... no

fixed minimum prices... absolutely not.

Fixed minimum prices set by the Guild Officers to prevent undercutting, what could be wrong with that? It's not the most important aspect but I'm curious as to why you'd say that, and just saying "no" with zero justification for your position is less than meaningless.

And what do you have against players being able to get some good out of this system without being in a trade guild themselves? It's the number 1 complaint that people have which this would effectively solve in one move that (especially with minimum prices) has no drawbacks for the Guilds who are currently benefiting from this system, everyone wins and nobody loses. So again, why? Just saying "no" means less than nothing, support your position with specific, logical arguments for why you don't agree or don't bother posting at all, as it stands your first response is a pointless waste of space.

my stuff.... i choose the price

my post.... i choose what i do and do not say.

Okay, good luck finding a decent trading guild then since all the good ones have minimum prices set for the highest selling items anyway, as well as rules against undercutting (albeit something that the officers have to manage themselves in the current system), and also this is the easiest argument I've ever won because if you have nothing to back up your position then everything you've said is utterly meaningless and can justly be completely ignored by myself and everyone else alike. Get back to me when you decide to join us adults in an actual conversation with something besides "nuh-uhhh."

your patronising attitude so typifies posters who come with an idea they think brilliant and original when, in fact, it is old hat and crap. by hey, it's the internet and twas ever thus.

first trade guilds.... i have been a member of several of the top guilds on pc eu. prices were never fixed, the only lower limit was nothing less than 100 gold other than recipes - a sensible rule to keep the vendor trash out.

no longer in a trade guild because i stopped playing this game to play fallout 4 when it was released and left the guilds before i stopped playing. started playing again at the beginning of june but not yet joined any guilds because i find i can sell stuff without difficulty.

fixed minimum prices? as another poster pointed out if you think that is a good idea you haven't been paying attention. fixed pricing is also one of the reasons i am against a centralized ah..... it would make it far too easy for individuals or cartels to corner markets and fix the price on them - fun for the people doing it but not for everyone else.

and the mouldy cherry on the rotting cake.... players able to use the trader of a guild they are not a member of. why? just join a guild ffs. it doesn't hurt, it isn't difficult. it is part of the game. if you are so inept that you can't sell stuff off your own bat the guild store or trader will take care of it for you. of course the core problem with the precious snowflakes saying - i can't sell my stuff 'cos i'm not in a trade guild - is usually the stuff they are trying to sell.

the key to trading is offering stuff that people want to buy at a reasonable price in the right location. how do you do that?

do a bit of research.

Agobi · November 2016

silvermistktralasub17_ESO wrote: »

The reason that the poster is upset about people selling underpriced is that it interferes with tools like the Tamriel Trade thingy and MM, both of which give you averages, and if someone or three is selling something vastly underpriced, it skews the numbers. I've been in a guild that had to correct for someone selling tempers vastly underpriced about about a year ago. We got together, agreed on a base line, and started adjusting things by holding a contest for the people who sold a certain amount of gold tempers. It readjusted MM, though it took time to do that. It's something that's easy to skew, and hard to fix, in many cases.

So,if someone manages to sell a bunch of stuff at much higher prices...do you get together and adjust the prices back down to the "correct" price? Or is the new higher price suddenly the right one?

A tool that displays an average is just that,a tool..not the holy grail of all prices ever™
Something sold at less than average isnt "underpriced" in my book

But I guess pricemanagement is one way to inflate costs for buyers and make some players rich

Tandor · November 2016

LaiTash wrote: »

Skcarkden wrote: »

So which games have removed AH ?

I never said it's being removed. I said it's not being added to newer games.

Ironic that you consider a game that has an AH as only a 'cash grab' game but not a game that refuses to have an ah but is actually doing cash grabbing choices such as crates

YEEEEAH, 2 years after release they add RNG crates containing cosmetic items.

would you like to explain why AH is a 'cash grab'?

Because echonomic-wise it's a stupid mechanics designed only to appeal to casual players, because casual players like it when everything is the way it was in WOW. If i see a dev that prefer drawing more players even if it means bad economy, i say their game is a cash grab.

Given that the purpose of One Tamriel - and the switch to B2P before it - was to draw in more players, and given also that the economy in ESO is at best bad and at worst non-existent at least for most people, it's difficult to see how the switch to an auction house or other alternative to the present highly restrictive trading system could make the game any more of a cash grab. I've seen lots of criticisms made of auction houses before, but I've not previously seen them described as a cash grab!

So far as in-game gold is concerned, however, the few really successful trading guilds are undoubtedly running the present trading system as a cash grab which is why they're so resistant to change

!

jedtb16_ESO · November 2016

Tandor wrote: »

LaiTash wrote: »

Skcarkden wrote: »

So which games have removed AH ?

I never said it's being removed. I said it's not being added to newer games.

Ironic that you consider a game that has an AH as only a 'cash grab' game but not a game that refuses to have an ah but is actually doing cash grabbing choices such as crates

YEEEEAH, 2 years after release they add RNG crates containing cosmetic items.

would you like to explain why AH is a 'cash grab'?

Because echonomic-wise it's a stupid mechanics designed only to appeal to casual players, because casual players like it when everything is the way it was in WOW. If i see a dev that prefer drawing more players even if it means bad economy, i say their game is a cash grab.

Given that the purpose of One Tamriel - and the switch to B2P before it - was to draw in more players, and given also that the economy in ESO is at best bad and at worst non-existent at least for most people, it's difficult to see how the switch to an auction house or other alternative to the present highly restrictive trading system could make the game any more of a cash grab. I've seen lots of criticisms made of auction houses before, but I've not previously seen them described as a cash grab!

So far as in-game gold is concerned, however, the few really successful trading guilds are undoubtedly running the present trading system as a cash grab which is why they're so resistant to change !

that would only be true if membership of one of those guilds was the only way to trade

LaiTash · November 2016

Tandor wrote: »

LaiTash wrote: »

Skcarkden wrote: »

So which games have removed AH ?

I never said it's being removed. I said it's not being added to newer games.

Ironic that you consider a game that has an AH as only a 'cash grab' game but not a game that refuses to have an ah but is actually doing cash grabbing choices such as crates

YEEEEAH, 2 years after release they add RNG crates containing cosmetic items.

would you like to explain why AH is a 'cash grab'?

Because echonomic-wise it's a stupid mechanics designed only to appeal to casual players, because casual players like it when everything is the way it was in WOW. If i see a dev that prefer drawing more players even if it means bad economy, i say their game is a cash grab.

Given that the purpose of One Tamriel - and the switch to B2P before it - was to draw in more players, and given also that the economy in ESO is at best bad and at worst non-existent at least for most people, it's difficult to see how the switch to an auction house or other alternative to the present highly restrictive trading system could make the game any more of a cash grab. I've seen lots of criticisms made of auction houses before, but I've not previously seen them described as a cash grab!

While i agree 1T is a cash grab, just because it's bad already doesn't mean it needs to become worse. Last time i was buying the gear i needed i bought a piece for a couple of thousands, then my gf said she just saw that for a few hundreds. If there was an AH, i'd just buy it for those few hundreds, most likely less. If i could find it, of course, because that price is already close to vendor trash, and with AH it would be even lower.

So far as in-game gold is concerned, however, the few really successful trading guilds are undoubtedly running the present trading system as a cash grab which is why they're so resistant to change !

At least there is some competition in this game after all.

Tandor · November 2016

LaiTash wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

LaiTash wrote: »

Skcarkden wrote: »

So which games have removed AH ?

I never said it's being removed. I said it's not being added to newer games.

Ironic that you consider a game that has an AH as only a 'cash grab' game but not a game that refuses to have an ah but is actually doing cash grabbing choices such as crates

YEEEEAH, 2 years after release they add RNG crates containing cosmetic items.

would you like to explain why AH is a 'cash grab'?

Because echonomic-wise it's a stupid mechanics designed only to appeal to casual players, because casual players like it when everything is the way it was in WOW. If i see a dev that prefer drawing more players even if it means bad economy, i say their game is a cash grab.

Given that the purpose of One Tamriel - and the switch to B2P before it - was to draw in more players, and given also that the economy in ESO is at best bad and at worst non-existent at least for most people, it's difficult to see how the switch to an auction house or other alternative to the present highly restrictive trading system could make the game any more of a cash grab. I've seen lots of criticisms made of auction houses before, but I've not previously seen them described as a cash grab!

While i agree 1T is a cash grab, just because it's bad already doesn't mean it needs to become worse. Last time i was buying the gear i needed i bought a piece for a couple of thousands, then my gf said she just saw that for a few hundreds. If there was an AH, i'd just buy it for those few hundreds, most likely less. If i could find it, of course, because that price is already close to vendor trash, and with AH it would be even lower.

I'm not actually of the view that any part of the game is a "cash grab" as such, not least because that is a pejorative term and at worst such things are revenue-raising which is not an unreasonable approach for any commercial undertaking especially for game developers running B2P or F2P games. I was, however, simply referring to those who do regard some aspects of the game as a cash grab and saying that it's difficult to see how those people can argue that an auction house would be even more of a cash grab - indeed, you indicate that you would buy stuff cheaper in an auction house so it would be less of a cash grab in terms of in-game gold.

Tandor wrote: »

So far as in-game gold is concerned, however, the few really successful trading guilds are undoubtedly running the present trading system as a cash grab which is why they're so resistant to change !

LaiTash wrote: »

At least there is some competition in this game after all.

No more than under any other trading system, and arguably less given that the system is severely restricted at any one time in practical terms to the relatively few sellers that can get a kiosk and the relatively few buyers that are prepared to sink the time into searching for what they want - most probably just snap something up as soon as they see it rather than establishing whether it's cheaper elsewhere, and that isn't effective competition.

I'm not necessarily in favour of an auction house in ESO, but I am very much in favour of having a public trading system that is open to all without guild membership, bidding for kiosks, must-have addons that aren't available across all platforms, or other arbitrary restrictions on participation. If that can be achieved by opening up the present system then that's fine.

NewBlacksmurf · November 2016

CromulentForumID wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Pallmor wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

The majority of eso players do just fine with the existing trade system (especially since zeni stopped sabotaging bids with the maintenance time). The majority of people who want an AH just because they're used to it from other games and don't want to adapt to a different structure.

I like most of the ways that ESO chooses to differentiate themselves from mmo generica - the guild stores instead of auction house, the lack of player inspection, the decision (so far) not to put advantage-giving weapons and gear in tbe cash shop.

L2Adapt

Did it ever occur to you that the reason that other MMO's have auction houses is that they work and players like them?

I'd actually have to disagree with you there.

They don't work, they just are what you want cause you don't like the system this game offers.

Actually, they do work, they just may not be better, or what you prefer.

Both sides of this argument are extremely prone to blatant hyperbole.

See above: VAST MAJORITY of players do not want an auction house. Despite the fact that there is a new thread every week

@CromulentForumID

No they actually don't work. It's literally why I'm real world situations there are groups in charge of preventing a monopoly.
A global auction house positions players with the most gold and time to control the entire games market

It allow price fixing, and encourages separation
Ppl stop helping others for the possibility of profits.

Today in this game it's already bad enough that ppl have resorted to guild fees and traders go for millions per week just to have a trader most often with no valueable items worth purchasing

Let's also look at the reality of how things occur. This game drops a lot of items all the time.
A global auction house or even faction auction house creates a flood of items which overtime become worthless and a select few that become over priced due to the above.

Regardless of how many do or don't want an auction house, it's literally been proven throughout history to be a bad thing.

This game allows small and large groups of people to create closed markets. It also allows them to open that market with trader options. That's proven in real life and in games over the years to be a much better system. The issue most have with this is that they don't want to play with others so that's the actual issue. It's not an auction house.

It's not about preferance, real business knowledge applies and real businesses do not all throw all items in one place for the entire world to access. That's why there are different currencies, different stores and different ways to shop and present items to potential customers. We aren't all the same

Consider this game is more solo friendly and the use of guilds in those other games you suggest was great due to an auction house, the guilds only served value for endgame content.

You also didn't see ppl in multiple guilds.
The only issue is if you're in trader guilds vs real guilds you may want auction house because you're spending all your time trying to get something or make money off others.

Pallmor · November 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Regardless of how many do or don't want an auction house, it's literally been proven throughout history to be a bad thing

You know I used to hear that mantra and accepted it as true, until I actually went and played a game (Neverwinter) that had an Auction House and realized it was B.S. I sold tons on stuff on the AH in that game and never had to join a trade guild or pay any weekly dues. I never once thought I was being "cheated" or "undersold" when I sold stuff. And there was a LOT more variety of goods available for players at better prices and better selection than you would ever find at any guild trader in ESO.

Take for example, lower level gear. In ESO, decent vet gear below CP 160 is almost impossible to find, because the trade guilds are all dominated by end-game players and the few bits and pieces below CP 160 that get put up are few and far between. And because they're so rare, no one even bothers searching around for them, which means they don't sell, which creates a self-fulfilling axiom that anything below CP 160 is worthless. In Neverwinter, by contrast, you could find gear at pretty much any level in the AH. Since every player, endgame or not, has equal access to the AH, there is a market for gear at every level (and plenty of selection to choose from).

As for the charge of price fixing, I suspect there is WAY more of that in a game where a few select trade guilds effectively control the entire market than there EVER will be in a game with an Auction House that anyone and everyone has equal access to.

Sadly, I think that ZOS has bought into the propaganda that Auction Houses are always a bad thing as well. But I can tell you that I would take an AH over the existing system in ESO any day of the week. And I say that both as a buyer AND a seller who has experienced both systems.

jedtb16_ESO · November 2016

Pallmor wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Regardless of how many do or don't want an auction house, it's literally been proven throughout history to be a bad thing

You know I used to hear that mantra and accepted it as true, until I actually went and played a game (Neverwinter) that had an Auction House and realized it was B.S. I sold tons on stuff on the AH in that game and never had to join a trade guild or pay any weekly dues. I never once thought I was being "cheated" or "undersold" when I sold stuff. And there was a LOT more variety of goods available for players at better prices and better selection than you would ever find at any guild trader in ESO.

Take for example, lower level gear. In ESO, decent vet gear below CP 160 is almost impossible to find, because the trade guilds are all dominated by end-game players and the few bits and pieces below CP 160 that get put up are few and far between. And because they're so rare, no one even bothers searching around for them, which means they don't sell, which creates a self-fulfilling axiom that anything below CP 160 is worthless. In Neverwinter, by contrast, you could find gear at pretty much any level in the AH. Since every player, endgame or not, has equal access to the AH, there is a market for gear at every level (and plenty of selection to choose from).

As for the charge of price fixing, I suspect there is WAY more of that in a game where a few select trade guilds effectively control the entire market than there EVER will be in a game with an Auction House that anyone and everyone has equal access to.

Sadly, I think that ZOS has bought into the propaganda that Auction Houses are always a bad thing as well. But I can tell you that I would take an AH over the existing system in ESO any day of the week. And I say that both as a buyer AND a seller who has experienced both systems.

two points....

1) the trade guilds control the entire market. rubbish. this would only be possible if the only way to trade goods was via a trade guild.

2) action houses are entirely gameable as was demonstrated in swtor and other games.

the fact that the guild traders are decentralized makes it very difficult to corner a market on them. difficult but not impossible. but adding the fact that you don't have to use a trade guild to trade does make it impossible. centralized auction houses on the other hand are easy to manipulate all it take is a lot of money time, and patience.

Kalifas · November 2016

BlanketFort wrote: »

Where is everyone basing the fact that most players are ok with the current trading system? On account of how many forums posts were made against it? For it? Have you guys gone and asked every single player in-game? I reckon some of us just accept it, doesn't mean we like it, and keep mouths shut in fear of being flamed like the OP. Ah the hell, why hide.

what is so wrong with people complaining about it? They have the right to voice their dissatisfaction just as much as those who like the system have every right to defend it. Or is this a tactic so that you can keep on saying "Most people are happy with the current system! Everyone else who dislikes it is just lazy!" ?

Im 50/50 on guild traders but I have my gripes with it. For one, it's a hassle to have to cough up the weekly dues to be part of a decent trading guild. I can imagine that this is not a hindrance for those who have all the time in the world to play, but for those with a lot more on their plate, schedule and time-wise, it is not fun to first:
1) spend nearly an hour looking for the best price you can get for an item (nevermind that you may not even find that item listed anywhere!). Lots of wayshrine hopping, having to deal with the ridiculous UI (console!), go back to a trader you found the best price for, realise it's already been bought by someone else.
2) gather things to sell. I'd rather spend my time enjoying the aspects of the game that are fun for me, than being stressed about weekly dues and therefore allocating the little play-time I have on farming stuff. I bet you'll say "but 5k a week is not much, you filthy dirt-poor pleb argonian!" I say to you:
3) everyone spends their gold differently. Some like to spend it in taverns, buying npcs a drink, some like to re-spec nearly 200 skillpoints, attribute points, and champion points at least 4 times a week to experiment with their builds, like I do. So yeah, 5k hits my wallet like a Blackhole.
And then you say "go play the game more! Plenty of ways to make cash!" Well..
4) have I mentioned that not all of us have unlimited time to play? Or.. how about being cash poor and asset rich (I'm a hoarder, sue me)? Some players mostly use the system to Shop rather than to sell, and buying stuff in this game, through the current system in vanilla UI, can be a huge time sink. Time: A luxury for the unemployed/students/youngsters/etc, a rare treat for those who are otherwise.

It works for some, it doesn't for others. I don't give a s** what system they use, I just hope it's more time-friendly than this *** we currently have. It's easy to use to sell, no argument there. But as a buyer looking for uncommon items and a time-limit, it's a huge hassle.

I am self-sufficient, but there are things I'd rather not waste a thousand hours on trying to get. So I am "forced" to partake in a system that only serves me as a huge time-sink. And after all that searching, apparently a waste of time because no trader has it posted. F*** great.

Don't tell me to play another game. I love ESO, I enjoy many aspects of it, but the trading system isn't one of them and I have my right to voice my opinion and post that opinion on a thread in the forums so I can enjoy being hated on by people who are only capable of seeing their own point of view, or unable to fathom the cons because it benefits them.

I'm sure the current system has its benefits to the game economy, it is more difficult to manipulate the economy, but not impossible. Many have succeeded, so it's not a fool-proof system, after all. but let's not kid ourselves into thinking it is the greatest, most convenient, and efficient way to trade.

As for those who say having an AH would make ESO like every other game... come on, don't do that. That is just downright insulting to the game. Even if ESO had an AH, it won't make it a clone of WoW or gw2. ESO is an amazing game and it has many many qualities and quirks that separates it from other MMOs. That sounds like you just want to keep the system out of spite. Perhaps AH -is- a bad idea and would do more harm than good, especially in the long run, but guild traders are obviously also not the ultra solution. I'd like a bazaar. That would be fun. We'd still have to hit up every trader but without dozens of wayshrine hopping, searching out a trader in the middle of nowhere.

Edit: swear words. I thought that'd be edited automatically.
And to add that I am not exactly pro AH, I'm just pro time-saving. Seriously, If I could quit my job and not bother about responsibilities and be happy living under a bridge, powering my TV and xbox with a hamster, i wouldn't even be on this thread as my only issue with the current system in place, is how time consuming it is.

The AH versus current argument will go on forever or cease if a standard AH is implemented. The forums while they are nice to give feedback, are a small portion of the playerbase. Most casual players don't even visit here. So anyone listing proof of polls saying an AH is not wanted by the majority or is wanted by the majority is not accurate. One fact that cannot be argued is most gamers are about convenience versus forsaking that for immersion, because most gamers are casual. Firor believes this and this is why Enlightenment, Account Wide Champion Points, Console Chat, Console UI additions, duty finder and One Tamriel have come to be.

AH may not be the best option for some players. But AH became a thing for the same reason fast travel, mounts, and respecs became a thing. Convenience. I think ZoS is being stubborn about wanting to keep things as is. Maybe they are right or wrong.

I think some different way of doing the economics is coming. And this has nothing to do with whether I like it or not. The whole game got gutted and changed to attract casuals, so I don't see one feature being immune to that in the quest for attracting casuals.

Below I list an alternative way, that tries to give convenience without tossing the baby in the bathwater.

City Of Merchants