The Meta Isn't Always Fun - Do Your Own Thing

WuffyCerulei · October 2016

A lot of times, I see 99.99% of builds for ESO are very much meta and dry-cut. Magicka builds: you HAVE to be Altmer, Breton, or Dunmer. Stamina builds: you HAVE to be Orc or Redguard. Yes, these races all have decent passives for their builds, but it leaves everything feeling the same. You don't see much with creative builds anymore. It's all Twice-Born this or Vicious Ophidian that. People, get creative with your builds. Wanna be a butt-kicking khajiit magicka templar with high damage or a tanky altmer, you can find many ways to get that build to work. Heck, I'm getting a magicka khajiit sorcerer with 40k magicka and 20k dps. Don't let it seem you have to do a meta build to be good. ESO has many many possibilities with builds, especially with One Tamriel.

leepalmer95 · October 2016

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

A lot of times, I see 99.99% of builds for ESO are very much meta and dry-cut. Magicka builds: you HAVE to be Altmer, Breton, or Dunmer. Stamina builds: you HAVE to be Orc or Redguard. Yes, these races all have decent passives for their builds, but it leaves everything feeling the same. You don't see much with creative builds anymore. It's all Twice-Born this or Vicious Ophidian that. People, get creative with your builds. Wanna be a butt-kicking khajiit magicka templar with high damage or a tanky altmer, you can find many ways to get that build to work. Heck, I'm getting a magicka khajiit sorcerer with 40k magicka and 20k dps. Don't let it seem you have to do a meta build to be good. ESO has many many possibilities with builds, especially with One Tamriel.

20k dps is pretty low.

danno8 · October 2016

You don't have to do anything. It's all a matter of what you want to do, and whether or not you will be running content with other people that will expect you to be as efficient as possible.

If trial leaderboards aren't your thing you are free to do whatever you want. All other content in the game can be done with sub-optimal builds.

Apherius · October 2016

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

A lot of times, I see 99.99% of builds for ESO are very much meta and dry-cut. Magicka builds: you HAVE to be Altmer, Breton, or Dunmer. Stamina builds: you HAVE to be Orc or Redguard. Yes, these races all have decent passives for their builds, but it leaves everything feeling the same. You don't see much with creative builds anymore. It's all Twice-Born this or Vicious Ophidian that. People, get creative with your builds. Wanna be a butt-kicking khajiit magicka templar with high damage or a tanky altmer, you can find many ways to get that build to work. Heck, I'm getting a magicka khajiit sorcerer with 40k magicka and 20k dps. Don't let it seem you have to do a meta build to be good. ESO has many many possibilities with builds, especially with One Tamriel.

stamina , you have to be kajiith too .

and 20K dps is pretty low ^^"

CultOfMMO · October 2016

do anything you want if you don't want any part of end game content. No one is judging you, it's a game after all, so w/e makes you happy.

But please don't come to vet trials without everything optimized

20k single target static fight is pretty damn low but will still get you through 90% of the game.

SaibotLiu · October 2016

I dont follow that meta crap. Of course some things will be OP at any particular time, but it will always change eventually, and then you're back to the drawing board again. No one is always on the cutting edge, always the one to figure stuff out. If you're a competetive person and you expect to play well, you can play with mostly anything and you'll find a way to make it work. Because there is no substitute for having the intangible quality of knowing how to win. You cant get that skill from a metabuild.

There's never going to be a perfect build either, no matter how many numbers you crunch, or how many guides you rip your setup from, there's someone with a build that can specialize in beating you. Back at launch I noticed early the dkvamps were ruling pvp. So I developed something based around cc to stiffle them. My dps was awful, but it worked for what I wanted to do.

Asmael · October 2016

Sure, you can do your own thing. Well you won't be able to run for top scores, but that can get you thru 95% of the content, so go ahead.

Did you know that 20k DPS is pretty low?

Elsonso · October 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

A lot of times, I see 99.99% of builds for ESO are very much meta and dry-cut. Magicka builds: you HAVE to be Altmer, Breton, or Dunmer. Stamina builds: you HAVE to be Orc or Redguard. Yes, these races all have decent passives for their builds, but it leaves everything feeling the same. You don't see much with creative builds anymore. It's all Twice-Born this or Vicious Ophidian that. People, get creative with your builds. Wanna be a butt-kicking khajiit magicka templar with high damage or a tanky altmer, you can find many ways to get that build to work. Heck, I'm getting a magicka khajiit sorcerer with 40k magicka and 20k dps. Don't let it seem you have to do a meta build to be good. ESO has many many possibilities with builds, especially with One Tamriel.

20k dps is pretty low.

Most of my characters barely get 15k single target, and then only if the combat is entirely burst and the target goes down right away. And.. I don't care, because even 4-8k average DPS during a long combat from a level 10 is sufficient for the vast majority of the game.

magnusthorek · October 2016

I try to learn the "whys" behind these builds and dometimes I go after the items mentioned but often, due medical reasons, I can't rotate perfectly like the elite players do, maximizing the potential of the build.

Am I a bad player because of this? Of course not!

Have I completed vHRC or vMoL? Of course not because 1) Apparently only those pulling 30~35k DPS are eligible to get into a team for that; and 2) There's no one I know in my timezone willing to spend 3~4 hours trying to fo it.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

susmitds · October 2016

Wut? Orc for Stamina PvE? No Khajiit? LOL, you missed the meta it seems.

WuffyCerulei · October 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

A lot of times, I see 99.99% of builds for ESO are very much meta and dry-cut. Magicka builds: you HAVE to be Altmer, Breton, or Dunmer. Stamina builds: you HAVE to be Orc or Redguard. Yes, these races all have decent passives for their builds, but it leaves everything feeling the same. You don't see much with creative builds anymore. It's all Twice-Born this or Vicious Ophidian that. People, get creative with your builds. Wanna be a butt-kicking khajiit magicka templar with high damage or a tanky altmer, you can find many ways to get that build to work. Heck, I'm getting a magicka khajiit sorcerer with 40k magicka and 20k dps. Don't let it seem you have to do a meta build to be good. ESO has many many possibilities with builds, especially with One Tamriel.

20k dps is pretty low.

20k single target. And ya gotta understand, I don't min/max and make complete glass cannons, so yeah.

WuffyCerulei · October 2016

Asmael wrote: »

Sure, you can do your own thing. Well you won't be able to run for top scores, but that can get you thru 95% of the content, so go ahead.

Did you know that 20k DPS is pretty low?

Single target. Trash mobs easily pull in more.

Abeille · October 2016

Okay that's what I think...

If you are going to participate on end game group content, you will have other people depend on you. Then, it is better to have at least one character that conforms to the meta, because you don't want to let people down. Because failing isn't fun. Well, at least I don't find failing fun. I find it embarrassing.
But! You have up to 11 more slots to do anything you want! Well, 7 if you don't buy more slots, but still! Plenty of room to play around with whatever crazy build you want.

My characters are based on archetypes. I took the ones with race/build combinations that conform to the meta, like "The Altmer Mage", and min/max them.
Then I do whatever I want with the others. I have a Nord Magicka Sorcerer that uses ice staff and an Argonian Stamina Sorcerer that uses bow/great sword + pets. My Magicka Templar, who is a healer, is an Imperial. You won't find them in your end game group, but you might see me derping around with them over the world.

Woeler · October 2016

Problem is people play stupid builds and then DEMAND that the most difficult content be completable with it.

You wanna play a pet sorcerer hybrid with bow, fine with me, go do normal dungeons, but stay away from difficult content.

lordrichter wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

A lot of times, I see 99.99% of builds for ESO are very much meta and dry-cut. Magicka builds: you HAVE to be Altmer, Breton, or Dunmer. Stamina builds: you HAVE to be Orc or Redguard. Yes, these races all have decent passives for their builds, but it leaves everything feeling the same. You don't see much with creative builds anymore. It's all Twice-Born this or Vicious Ophidian that. People, get creative with your builds. Wanna be a butt-kicking khajiit magicka templar with high damage or a tanky altmer, you can find many ways to get that build to work. Heck, I'm getting a magicka khajiit sorcerer with 40k magicka and 20k dps. Don't let it seem you have to do a meta build to be good. ESO has many many possibilities with builds, especially with One Tamriel.

20k dps is pretty low.

Most of my characters barely get 15k single target, and then only if the combat is entirely burst and the target goes down right away. And.. I don't care, because even 4-8k average DPS during a long combat from a level 10 is sufficient for the vast majority of the game.

LOL.

Mush55 · October 2016

Zos's dreaded play as you want, if your just running about the world do as you want but if your going to do any vet dungeons then at least think of the strain you may be putting on your fellow players as some of the dungeon bosses have receive quite a health boost.

Seen some pretty ridiculous set ups as in healer in full heavy useing 2 hand sword and bow and bow wielding magic sorcs it may be ok for questing but not for group content.

AzuraKin · October 2016

i gonna cut through chase, 20k dps is not low, 20k dps is on point for a non-cheater. only way to beat the 20k dps mark is literally this thing called animation cancelling. now you can say all you want zos dont, care, but news flash, why would zos care when if they did away with animation cancelling most of the game's pop would leave. btw on top of the *** with 1t that tells you the game is dying, the fact they would allow cheating such as animation canceling to exist is also a sign of game dying. you can say i am wrong all you want but end of story is animations were put on skills for a reason, and to bypass those reasons is the definition of cheating.

Asmael · October 2016

AzuraKin wrote: »

i gonna cut through chase, 20k dps is not low, 20k dps is on point for a non-cheater. only way to beat the 20k dps mark is literally this thing called animation cancelling. now you can say all you want zos dont, care, but news flash, why would zos care when if they did away with animation cancelling most of the game's pop would leave. btw on top of the *** with 1t that tells you the game is dying, the fact they would allow cheating such as animation canceling to exist is also a sign of game dying. you can say i am wrong all you want but end of story is animations were put on skills for a reason, and to bypass those reasons is the definition of cheating.

Confirmed, light attacks added the extra 38k DPS.

Waffennacht · October 2016

AzuraKin wrote: »

i gonna cut through chase, 20k dps is not low, 20k dps is on point for a non-cheater. only way to beat the 20k dps mark is literally this thing called animation cancelling. now you can say all you want zos dont, care, but news flash, why would zos care when if they did away with animation cancelling most of the game's pop would leave. btw on top of the *** with 1t that tells you the game is dying, the fact they would allow cheating such as animation canceling to exist is also a sign of game dying. you can say i am wrong all you want but end of story is animations were put on skills for a reason, and to bypass those reasons is the definition of cheating.

Did you know we are in 2016 almost 2017? "Animation Cancelling is not suppose to exist!" is so 2015

br0steen · October 2016

AzuraKin wrote: »

i gonna cut through chase, 20k dps is not low, 20k dps is on point for a non-cheater. only way to beat the 20k dps mark is literally this thing called animation cancelling. now you can say all you want zos dont, care, but news flash, why would zos care when if they did away with animation cancelling most of the game's pop would leave. btw on top of the *** with 1t that tells you the game is dying, the fact they would allow cheating such as animation canceling to exist is also a sign of game dying. you can say i am wrong all you want but end of story is animations were put on skills for a reason, and to bypass those reasons is the definition of cheating.

Zos's official stance on animation canceling was that is was an unintended side effect of the combat mechanics, but adds an interesting depth of skill for the game. So they kept it.

So based on those who made the game, you could argue the animations ARE there for a reason like you said. The reason? To animation cancel. /Dropmic

leepalmer95 · October 2016

AzuraKin wrote: »

i gonna cut through chase, 20k dps is not low, 20k dps is on point for a non-cheater. only way to beat the 20k dps mark is literally this thing called animation cancelling. now you can say all you want zos dont, care, but news flash, why would zos care when if they did away with animation cancelling most of the game's pop would leave. btw on top of the *** with 1t that tells you the game is dying, the fact they would allow cheating such as animation canceling to exist is also a sign of game dying. you can say i am wrong all you want but end of story is animations were put on skills for a reason, and to bypass those reasons is the definition of cheating.

Animation cancelling isn't cheating.

You have like 8 characters how cant you do it yet.

Ani cancelling is one of the only things that requires a small amount of skill in this increasing casual friendly game.

Woeler · October 2016

AzuraKin wrote: »

i gonna cut through chase, 20k dps is not low, 20k dps is on point for a non-cheater. only way to beat the 20k dps mark is literally this thing called animation cancelling. now you can say all you want zos dont, care, but news flash, why would zos care when if they did away with animation cancelling most of the game's pop would leave. btw on top of the *** with 1t that tells you the game is dying, the fact they would allow cheating such as animation canceling to exist is also a sign of game dying. you can say i am wrong all you want but end of story is animations were put on skills for a reason, and to bypass those reasons is the definition of cheating.

Removed inappropriate gif

Myrrdinn2014 · October 2016

I truly do miss the older days MMO's like Everquest. There your healer healed your dps dps'd and your tank tanked. As long as the stuff died no one gave a *** how fast it was killed or who did the most damage...IT DIED. Nowdays with dps mods and everything else under the sun its just a major pissing contest and reason to just be an elitist prick and kick people cause they dont have the time to spend in a video game like you do. If the stuff dies who the hell cares who did what dps it died and you didnt that should be all that mattes. And yeah before you even say it ESO does not have mechanics harder then EQ ever had so dont even bother playing that card nowday MMO's are so dumbed down its not even remotely funny.

Rohamad_Ali · October 2016

I have just resigned to this completely . I PvE and grind cp , seldom log in Cyrodiil anymore . Some people love these proc sets so they are happy copying builds . It is so much easier doing my own thing and not caring . I quit asking people to take me on dungeon runs and just solo what I can .

Doctordarkspawn · October 2016

The problem is more setups are not viable, and the game never tells you important steps to maximize DPS, such as animation cancling and buff management, (Which the game does a terrible job of giving help with, with the default UI. When the default UI has a bufftracker, we may finally be able to rest. And by that I mean a decent one, not the visual effects we have now.)

I'd love to make 2handed DPS. I like tanky DPS. But their not viable and if it's not meta people are not interested on working on it. ZOS has allways done this, be it with DPS or tanks, we are pidgeon holed not because it's 'meta'. It became meta because it was one of the only things to be proven effective. (Sidenote, if anyone has a setup for 2H in PVE that pulls 20 or higher DPS holla at me, I''d love to see it.)

You are preaching to the chior, I wish ZOS would overhaul their system and give us sample builds or even fighting styles full of preselect abilities just to give some friggin clue on how to build characters. Many of my friends hate this game not because it's not fun, but because it almost takes joy in not telling you how to hit the DPS numbers it should be hitting.

So yeah, the Meta will dissapear when the game allows more things to be viable. But under our current staff team, it will never happen.

TLDR: I hear you. But until ZOS gives us rigid classes or makes higher DPS easier to achieve or starts actually teaching how to achieve it, people will go with what has been proven to work. We saw great strides with the weapon ultimates, further outlining and giving tools. But until we get more skill lines, or more ways to hit high DPS with fewer buffs, we will see the same old thing.

magnusthorek · October 2016

"Interesting side of combat mechanics" are another words for "we don't [SNIP] care, let us concentrate on Cron Store [SNIP] now"

Soafee · October 2016

The people that actually care about getting things done "as perfect as possible" are always going to tell you that you're wrong no matter how much you try to make sense of it.

When the game stops being fun and starts being about numbers is when I think you should leave the game and find something else. It ruins game play for everyone around you when you expect other people to have certain criteria to play with you. This is especially bad for new players that are learning the game.

Some posts on this are sad.. "I stopped trying to play with others and just do my own thing." in a MMO.. In a game that you're suppose to play with others.. Elite players have ruined the game for them. Gaming anxiety is a real thing.. No one likes being yelled at or cussed at or called bad.

I had a moment of "Screw this game, I'm leaving" last night when a player cussed at me for not doing a dungeon mechanic in a dungeon I had never done before, even after telling them I had never done it before. It was a spider boss and on the last phase you have to move out of the way of the spikes or you get one shot and die. I didn't even think to barrel roll out of the way because I'm so new to this game. He could of just told me "Try dodging out of the way" instead of jumping and I would have but he was already set on me leaving so they "could find someone that knows how to play the game"... I wasn't the only one that died to the mechanic either, I just happened to be the death that made our tank leave. I truly hope that he got to finish the dungeon since he only cared about that and nothing else. Just himself.

Then I had an awesome experience with another tank. They explained fights perfectly and helped me when I needed it. We finished the dungeon, no one left after we died a couple of times. I even added them as a friend. That's what this game is about. It gets lost after people play for a while and expect things out of random people and damn them if they don't do it perfectly or exactly how they would do it.

Elsonso · October 2016

Woeler wrote: »

Problem is people play stupid builds and then DEMAND that the most difficult content be completable with it.

You wanna play a pet sorcerer hybrid with bow, fine with me, go do normal dungeons, but stay away from difficult content.

lordrichter wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

A lot of times, I see 99.99% of builds for ESO are very much meta and dry-cut. Magicka builds: you HAVE to be Altmer, Breton, or Dunmer. Stamina builds: you HAVE to be Orc or Redguard. Yes, these races all have decent passives for their builds, but it leaves everything feeling the same. You don't see much with creative builds anymore. It's all Twice-Born this or Vicious Ophidian that. People, get creative with your builds. Wanna be a butt-kicking khajiit magicka templar with high damage or a tanky altmer, you can find many ways to get that build to work. Heck, I'm getting a magicka khajiit sorcerer with 40k magicka and 20k dps. Don't let it seem you have to do a meta build to be good. ESO has many many possibilities with builds, especially with One Tamriel.

20k dps is pretty low.

Most of my characters barely get 15k single target, and then only if the combat is entirely burst and the target goes down right away. And.. I don't care, because even 4-8k average DPS during a long combat from a level 10 is sufficient for the vast majority of the game.

LOL.

Well, it is true, even if it shouldn't be.

I've never had a character that could pull 40k. I did have one that could pull 25k, but the reward for doing that is non-existent. Before One Tamriel, I could solo world bosses and public dungeon bosses. I could go all out for the max DPS I could manage, or I could just do what was necessary to kill the boss. The reward was the same, whether I was running 25k or 12k. The only difference was time. I rarely died, and I am not in a hurry. Why knock myself out on timing, making sure stuff is always up, and all of that, when it really does not change the reward or the outcome?

So, along comes One Tamriel, and along comes Witches Festival, and here I am with an account that I rarely use with a Breton MagPlar that I rarely play. A little Level 7 guy with one bar, no CP, that started life as a StamPlar months and months ago and still has attribute points in Stam. I have been playing Collect the Plunder for the last couple days. I am not even sure what level he is now (does not matter) but thanks to the flood of people around Plundering, he has done quite a few dark anchors, with several generals, and has killed all the bosses in at least one public dungeon. With a pitiful 5k DPS, 8k when the stars align, he can solo all normal overworld mobs, trash mobs in delves, trash mobs in public dungeons, and even solo delve bosses. It is hard to solo delve bosses right now, but that is because of all the people around. I have not tried to solo public dungeon bosses, and have not had the need to. Thankfully, I cannot solo world bosses. He would not be able to solo a group dungeon, but that is OK.

No, I do not use animation canceling (at least not deliberately). Yes, I use food. No, I do not really use potions. I have food and few spell power potions from my main account. My equipment is "fair" but I am focusing on sets that benefit magicka and spells rather than wearing whatever drops.

I figure that if I applied myself, he could easily do more DPS with the gear and spells he has. Tell me, what reason do I need to run this guy for more DPS when he is more than adequate for what he is doing?

Doctordarkspawn · October 2016

To the people going "Game is fine, git gud scrubs"

It's not fine. It's reallly not. Just because the system quote "Works" Unquote does not mean it's a good system. Ramping up the difficulty and demanding players do the hardest content to maximize DPS when it should -only- be needed for trials, (And oh god was this game in better shape before those ever came around) and not dungeons.

With One Tamriel, ZOS has *** the happy ballance they were going for, and now no one is happy. I wish, that they would look at the mess they created and fix it sooner rather than later. For now, I wait for them to make the build I have made, have fought hard to make viable and fun, to be made unplayable so I can leave this game. I dont have any other MMO's to go to, so, this will simply be....where I leave.

LaiTash · October 2016

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

A lot of times, I see 99.99% of builds for ESO are very much meta and dry-cut. Magicka builds: you HAVE to be Altmer, Breton, or Dunmer. Stamina builds: you HAVE to be Orc or Redguard. Yes, these races all have decent passives for their builds, but it leaves everything feeling the same. You don't see much with creative builds anymore. It's all Twice-Born this or Vicious Ophidian that. People, get creative with your builds. Wanna be a butt-kicking khajiit magicka templar with high damage or a tanky altmer, you can find many ways to get that build to work. Heck, I'm getting a magicka khajiit sorcerer with 40k magicka and 20k dps. Don't let it seem you have to do a meta build to be good. ESO has many many possibilities with builds, especially with One Tamriel.

You're absolutely correct, but the mmo community is now too spoiled to let you play comfortably the way you want without everyone *** about you're not doing 30k dps min.

There are also a lots of DPS checks in this game, however, but you can still do most vet dungeons with 20k.

ZOS_DaryaK · October 2016

We removed an image from a post because it referenced real world politics.

Xjcon · October 2016

AzuraKin wrote: »

i gonna cut through chase, 20k dps is not low, 20k dps is on point for a non-cheater. only way to beat the 20k dps mark is literally this thing called animation cancelling. now you can say all you want zos dont, care, but news flash, why would zos care when if they did away with animation cancelling most of the game's pop would leave. btw on top of the *** with 1t that tells you the game is dying, the fact they would allow cheating such as animation canceling to exist is also a sign of game dying. you can say i am wrong all you want but end of story is animations were put on skills for a reason, and to bypass those reasons is the definition of cheating.

It's misinformation like this that leads to people being scrubs. If you weave ability's in the right order and wear gear that best compliments your setup it's super easy to break 20k dps.