Maintenance for the week of January 5:
· [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
The Meta Isn't Always Fun - Do Your Own Thing
-
Judgedread101071✭✭✭Although i would agree that 20K dps is high enough to get you through almost everything in the game when it comes to end-game content then it is concidered quite low.
Take vr MoL for example.There are mechanics in there that if you dont kill the boss fast enough it's a wipe no matter how well you play the mechanics.
1st boss you r left without pillars to hide.
2nd bosses u will be overwealmed by adds.
3rd boss after lunar phase u will most probably die from archers.
So if you are aiming for that type of content then 20k is pretty low.
If you dont care about end-game content then 20 k is fine.Edited by Judgedread101071 on October 31, 2016 10:07AM0 -
Cherryblossom✭✭✭✭✭
✭i gonna cut through chase, 20k dps is not low, 20k dps is on point for a non-cheater. only way to beat the 20k dps mark is literally this thing called animation cancelling. now you can say all you want zos dont, care, but news flash, why would zos care when if they did away with animation cancelling most of the game's pop would leave. btw on top of the *** with 1t that tells you the game is dying, the fact they would allow cheating such as animation canceling to exist is also a sign of game dying. you can say i am wrong all you want but end of story is animations were put on skills for a reason, and to bypass those reasons is the definition of cheating.
It's misinformation like this that leads to people being scrubs. If you weave ability's in the right order and wear gear that best compliments your setup it's super easy to break 20k dps.
I sort of disagree, max dps is not about weave really, although light attacks add about 9% to your dps, it's really about continous up time on dots and group buffing and debuffing.
a good DPS has a rotation that means they lay down their dots, do there main attack, then rinse and repeat like a robot until the boss is dead.
If you look at @Asmael parse, you will see that nearly 80% of his damage is from dots (yes I'm including standard as a dot) benefiting from high crit. I'm hoping that Asmael has a combat Metrics parse to show the buffs he had up during this parse or at least one which shows people what they should be looking for.
0 -
SammyPeer✭✭Why did this post become a discussion about the aboutness of meta instead of a celebration of the game's great diversity of options for build types?3 -
Enslaved✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Diversity still exists, but only depending on what you do in game. For normal questing, you can be anything, even a Stam DK Vampire Nord Tank with a bow.
In PvP, diversity is still possible, if you have great, well coordinated guild with TS or discord. Not every Tom, *** and Harry need to be in cheesiest of meta builds, many skills that are not that much used are great for defending keeps, taking resources very fast while in 2-3 ppl teams etc. Main problem in PvP is that everyone wanna be a 1v9000 hero, or they zerg mindlessly, using same skills and get nuked by a single NB bomber or something. Even zerging can be tweaked to be absolutely unstoppable, if only ppl used diversity that sets and skills offer to them.
For group PvE, most of the ppl play safe, and they expect same behavior fro their teammates. And, tbh, some builds simply outperform others.
And for vMA, you have just a few builds that work. Its a fact, pigeon hole there is real, stinky and narrow af.0 -
Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Since when have casuals ever saved a game while keeping it challenging and interesting?This thread is a brilliantly shining example of why it's harmful for ZOS to cater to elitists, who'll alienate and scare off paying customers. Basically, hostile minorities (obnoxious PvP duel trolls, hardcore elitists, et cetera) will kill a game faster than anything else. They killed Champions Online. They killed Battleborn. And if ZOS isn't careful, they'll kill ESO.
I can't stop worrying about this. I keep seeing the pattern repeating, over and over. So many games have died thanks to this.
As a side note, I happen to own Battleborn and am rank 100. What killed that game is most certainly not elitists nor casuals, but terrible marketing, terrible quality control and terrible matchmaking.2 -
daedalusAI✭✭✭✭✭Why did this post become a discussion about the aboutness of meta instead of a celebration of the game's great diversity of options for build types?
Well you have to look at both sides of the coin: on one side you indeed have the possibility to create a somewhat unique build which carries you through quests easily - but if you ramp up the difficulty you'll notice that most of those unique builds are just so inferior compared to "meta" build or rather "improved" builds where every skill/set/weapon used just clicks and forms an amazing unity.
So at the end of the day only a select few builds survive the challenges ahead and with it you are somewhat forced to adapt your unique build or you will get left behind.
Or do you see a unique build focused around something like blade cloak as its main damage ability to do good in challenging content?Edited by daedalusAI on October 31, 2016 11:39AM0 -
Nerouyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WuffyCerulei wrote: »Magicka builds: you HAVE to be Altmer, Breton, or Dunmer. Stamina builds: you HAVE to be Orc or Redguard. Yes, these races all have decent passives for their builds, but it leaves everything feeling the same.
That's the game by design. Don't blame the players.
Personally I hate the existing racial passives and cringe every time I see the loading screen which tells me that altmer make the best spellslingers. Not that I have anything against altmer. I'm perfectly happy to have pointy ears. But it sucks that the game literally, transparently and measurably makes some races better at some builds - even if only a little. Sure it won't matter for most of the game's PvE. But in trials and PvP... every little bit counts.
Many players also have a healthy desire to be their best. Especially if others are relying on them in teams.
Ultimately I chose to just make what I wanted though. Racials change but until recently we were stuck with our chosen race and now have to pay a hefty sum to change it.1 -
frethopper✭✭✭I play one char, and have done since the game first started, and it's a mainly defensive build. I appreciate that this may not be the 'right' way to play the game successfully, and complete the content, but its the way 'I' like to play, and I'm a paying customer just like everyone else.1 -
Bobby_V_Rockit✭✭✭✭✭
✭In what way is the meta not fun? Being able to clear content effectively is the most fun a game can be0 -
Kendaric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »In what way is the meta not fun? Being able to clear content effectively is the most fun a game can be
It may be for you, but other players have different things they consider fun.3 -
daedalusAI✭✭✭✭✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »In what way is the meta not fun? Being able to clear content effectively is the most fun a game can be
It's not fun when the top-performing abilities and sets are so far ahead of the rest you question the developers ability to maintain a balance of some sort across everything.Edited by daedalusAI on October 31, 2016 12:00PM3 -
Mordenkainen✭✭✭✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »In what way is the meta not fun? Being able to clear content effectively is the most fun a game can be
An example: I like magic. But I also like Bosmer. Bosmer suck at magic by end-game measuring in ESO because as some folks already said - Every bit counts in Trials, racial passives included. so in Trials you go with the Meta or you're not in Trials.
Or that's what I understand.
I play in fact a bosmer magicka night blade and pull close to 30k dps in dungeons and trials. Yeah, I'm almost breaking my fingers on my keyboard doing that, but I love the way my playstyle looks.
Not everyone is into playing his keyboard like a piano though. That's the point of it.
I myself would also be happy if I could wield a frost staff without stopping to be viable.I simply like frost more as element and fire is horribly overplayed in 90% of all games in existence.
Not every person defines fun the way the next does. It's definitely difficult to balance this, but not impossible. I find threads like this should be looked at more often by ZOS.2 -
SammyPeer✭✭daedalusAI wrote: »Well you have to look at both sides of the coin: on one side you indeed have the possibility to create a somewhat unique build which carries you through quests easily - but if you ramp up the difficulty you'll notice that most of those unique builds are just so inferior compared to "meta" build or rather "improved" builds where every skill/set/weapon used just clicks and forms an amazing unity.
So at the end of the day only a select few builds survive the challenges ahead and with it you are somewhat forced to adapt your unique build or you will get left behind.
Or do you see a unique build focused around something like blade cloak as its main damage ability to do good in challenging content?
Sorry @daedalusAI I may have not been quite as specific as I had hoped. I was refering to the OPs thread heading and original post, the point of which was, and I will try to explain my interpretation of said post here.
The meta isn't always fun, seems pretty straight forward, doing that which has been discussed, trialed, refined and picked apart by scores or hundreds of people isn't always going to be the way that everyone gets the most enjoyment out of something.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy fine tuning builds and getting high DPS/crits/heals/buffs and whatnot. I even see it as an essential part of the game for achieving success in a competitive way. The OP was talking about why we should be able to have discussions about builds that don't revolve around getting the most *something* out of that build. But are just fun and maybe even a tad exciting to play and learn and master.
Not saying that meta isn't better just that it can be fun to try something new.3 -
Bobby_V_Rockit✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »In what way is the meta not fun? Being able to clear content effectively is the most fun a game can be
It may be for you, but other players have different things they consider fun.
For example? I'm pretty sure enjoying content is pretty much the main reason people play games at all... the meta just makes more of that content accessible.
To go against the meta simply because of some illogical need to be different is in fact spite (by definition: without regard to someone or something; even though another course had been prescribed; ignoring a warning.). Its the same as saying "I love cheeseburgers but so does everyone else, so I wont eat them"...
Seems people want to deliberately gimp themselves in order to be special...Edited by Bobby_V_Rockit on October 31, 2016 12:07PM0 -
Kendaric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »In what way is the meta not fun? Being able to clear content effectively is the most fun a game can be
It may be for you, but other players have different things they consider fun.
For example? I'm pretty sure enjoying content is pretty much the main reason people play games at all... the meta just makes more of that content accessible.
To go against the meta simply because of some illogical need to be different is in fact spite (by definition: without regard to someone or something; even though another course had been prescribed; ignoring a warning.). Its the same as saying "I love cheeseburgers but so does everyone else, so I wont eat them"...
Seems people want to deliberately gimp themselves in order to be special...
@Bobby_V_Rockit The meta is for people who are interested in endgame activities. People may not be interested in vet dungeons/trials and/or PvP, for example I've got no interest in either of them (never even been to a normal dungeon). I play to explore, read the lore, quest, craft and roleplay. So tell me... why exactly should I care about the meta?1 -
BlanketFort✭✭✭✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »In what way is the meta not fun? Being able to clear content effectively is the most fun a game can be
It may be for you, but other players have different things they consider fun.
For example? I'm pretty sure enjoying content is pretty much the main reason people play games at all... the meta just makes more of that content accessible.
To go against the meta simply because of some illogical need to be different is in fact spite (by definition: without regard to someone or something; even though another course had been prescribed; ignoring a warning.). Its the same as saying "I love cheeseburgers but so does everyone else, so I wont eat them"...
Seems people want to deliberately gimp themselves in order to be special...
Well that was quite a jump to that conclusion. People find different play styles fun. It's not because of spite, although I can imagine that that is a possibility, but I doubt it is the rule of thumb. An example: I prefer to play DPS with DW and S&B. Tons of fun, for me. Stopped doing it because people refused to do vet content with that build. Hence, I succumbed to the meta.
Is the meta effective? Yes.
Is it fun for me? Hell no. It is dull. I prefer charging things and generating so much ultimate in a short time to smash mobs with.
I tried and tried and tried, but I simply didn't find a way to make my preferred build viable enough (for a DD) and I stuck with the meta, because I also understand that my enjoyment (in playing how I want) may come at the expense of others' fun. Still, I hate the meta and the pressure (basically the requirement from others) to use it.1 -
Dymence✭✭✭✭✭
✭i gonna cut through chase, 20k dps is not low, 20k dps is on point for a non-cheater. only way to beat the 20k dps mark is literally this thing called animation cancelling. now you can say all you want zos dont, care, but news flash, why would zos care when if they did away with animation cancelling most of the game's pop would leave. btw on top of the *** with 1t that tells you the game is dying, the fact they would allow cheating such as animation canceling to exist is also a sign of game dying. you can say i am wrong all you want but end of story is animations were put on skills for a reason, and to bypass those reasons is the definition of cheating.
"I don't know how to get higher than 20k dps so everyone that gets higher than that must be cheating"
Most sound logic 2016
2 -
Uriel_Nocturne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
I agree with you (and your intent for this post) wholeheartedly, OP.WuffyCerulei wrote: »A lot of times, I see 99.99% of builds for ESO are very much meta and dry-cut. Magicka builds: you HAVE to be Altmer, Breton, or Dunmer. Stamina builds: you HAVE to be Orc or Redguard. Yes, these races all have decent passives for their builds, but it leaves everything feeling the same. You don't see much with creative builds anymore. It's all Twice-Born this or Vicious Ophidian that. People, get creative with your builds. Wanna be a butt-kicking khajiit magicka templar with high damage or a tanky altmer, you can find many ways to get that build to work. Heck, I'm getting a magicka khajiit sorcerer with 40k magicka and 20k dps. Don't let it seem you have to do a meta build to be good. ESO has many many possibilities with builds, especially with One Tamriel.
I've never done the whole "Meta-race-to-the-top" build thing, and frankly, IMHO it is silly to me.
I know and understand why it is an attractive way for some people to play, it just doesn't appeal to me in any way.
I build my characters based on what I think is "fun", and in the manner that makes playing the game as much fun as I can possibly squeeze out of this game.
I don't run any "end-game" content. I don't do PvP, Trials, Group Dungeons, the Maelstrom Arena, nor any of the Undaunted pledges. I simply play and RP happily in my own little bubble. It does aggravate me when I have someone who does run that end-game content tell me that I'm "playing the game wrong", especially when I'm commenting on a post that has nothing to do with end-game content.
If that's the way that person wants to play, that's fine. More power to them.
But I don't play that content, I have no desire to play that content, so how does my method of play affect them in any way?
If a PvP-centric player wants to chase the Meta and continually race to the top, that's fine. Do that. More power to you.
But don't tell me I'm wrong because I don't play that way. I'm playing this MMO the way I want to play it, and in the most fun manner to my perception. I don't duck into end-game/Meta threads and tell those people who enjoy that that they're playing the game wrong, so please don't do it to me.
That's really all I ever ask.
Just let me play in peace, because I have no interest in end-game content or the Meta, so how I play will never affect what you are trying to do at the end-game.
twitch.tv/vampire_nox
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say no to Crown Crates!2 -
Rune_Relic✭✭✭✭✭
✭Diversity still exists, but only depending on what you do in game. For normal questing, you can be anything, even a Stam DK Vampire Nord Tank with a bow.
In PvP, diversity is still possible, if you have great, well coordinated guild with TS or discord. Not every Tom, *** and Harry need to be in cheesiest of meta builds, many skills that are not that much used are great for defending keeps, taking resources very fast while in 2-3 ppl teams etc. Main problem in PvP is that everyone wanna be a 1v9000 hero, or they zerg mindlessly, using same skills and get nuked by a single NB bomber or something. Even zerging can be tweaked to be absolutely unstoppable, if only ppl used diversity that sets and skills offer to them.
For group PvE, most of the ppl play safe, and they expect same behavior fro their teammates. And, tbh, some builds simply outperform others.
And for vMA, you have just a few builds that work. Its a fact, pigeon hole there is real, stinky and narrow af.Lava_Croft wrote: »
Since when have casuals ever saved a game while keeping it challenging and interesting?This thread is a brilliantly shining example of why it's harmful for ZOS to cater to elitists, who'll alienate and scare off paying customers. Basically, hostile minorities (obnoxious PvP duel trolls, hardcore elitists, et cetera) will kill a game faster than anything else. They killed Champions Online. They killed Battleborn. And if ZOS isn't careful, they'll kill ESO.
I can't stop worrying about this. I keep seeing the pattern repeating, over and over. So many games have died thanks to this.
As a side note, I happen to own Battleborn and am rank 100. What killed that game is most certainly not elitists nor casuals, but terrible marketing, terrible quality control and terrible matchmaking.daedalusAI wrote: »Why did this post become a discussion about the aboutness of meta instead of a celebration of the game's great diversity of options for build types?
Well you have to look at both sides of the coin: on one side you indeed have the possibility to create a somewhat unique build which carries you through quests easily - but if you ramp up the difficulty you'll notice that most of those unique builds are just so inferior compared to "meta" build or rather "improved" builds where every skill/set/weapon used just clicks and forms an amazing unity.
So at the end of the day only a select few builds survive the challenges ahead and with it you are somewhat forced to adapt your unique build or you will get left behind.
Or do you see a unique build focused around something like blade cloak as its main damage ability to do good in challenging content?
All sides of the argument all saying the same thing.
You have the new players that dont want to face a 10 year grind wall before they become competitive and even then they cant catch up anyway as the veterans are advancing too.
You have the casuals after horizontal progression to ensure there is an even playing field between all players.
You have the hardcore players that want constant progression toward godhood regardless if the rest of the playerbase get left behind and have no chance of completing the constantly upgraded content that they find easy through massive buffs.
Everybody is fighting their own corner to preserve their own way of playing the game and their own personality.
Nobody is going to be happy unless you find a way to forward for everyone.
What we need is endless progression and the ability to specialise with more and more buffs becoming available (progression).
But we also need to do that in a way that doesnt result in a massive power gap between new and old players and content that is simply gated from new players or casual players.
Enabling players to gain access to and stack ever more buffs and power doesnt work.
Using soft caps to control that power gap kills progression in the process but level the playing field so also doesnt work.
The only way you can square this circle is to enforce instant negative debuffs with every positive buff.
1. This means you can stack to your hearts desire and become more and more unique and specialised gaining more abilties over time (endless progression). The only limit is how much you want to sacrifice to get where you want to be.
2. This means any new player with no buffs sits midway between the buffs and counterbuffs of maxed out veteran players so has no problem with content other than limited options (there is no scaling issue).
3. This means casual players who cant or wont invest into extreme builds can still progress through any content without any scaling issues whatsoever.
4. This means there are endless possibilities for any build, hyrbid or not...and all of which are competitive so dont require players to be kicked with 'bad builds' as 'bad builds' simply dont exist. There is only a variety of extreme and unique build styles that are strong in certain aspects and weak in others...not overall build power.
5. Content scaling becomes much more accurate. No more Vet soloing 4 man content due to the auto-gimping system.
Anything is viable...no more your build aint good enough to play with us crap.
Mix it up in group anyway you want with a lighting mage or a rogue healer.
Ultimately play any imaginary character you like, through any content and bring something completely unique to every group.....YOU!Edited by Rune_Relic on October 31, 2016 1:32PMAnything that can be exploited will be exploited3 -
Foxic✭✭✭✭✭Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
I agree with you (and your intent for this post) wholeheartedly, OP.WuffyCerulei wrote: »A lot of times, I see 99.99% of builds for ESO are very much meta and dry-cut. Magicka builds: you HAVE to be Altmer, Breton, or Dunmer. Stamina builds: you HAVE to be Orc or Redguard. Yes, these races all have decent passives for their builds, but it leaves everything feeling the same. You don't see much with creative builds anymore. It's all Twice-Born this or Vicious Ophidian that. People, get creative with your builds. Wanna be a butt-kicking khajiit magicka templar with high damage or a tanky altmer, you can find many ways to get that build to work. Heck, I'm getting a magicka khajiit sorcerer with 40k magicka and 20k dps. Don't let it seem you have to do a meta build to be good. ESO has many many possibilities with builds, especially with One Tamriel.
I've never done the whole "Meta-race-to-the-top" build thing, and frankly, IMHO it is silly to me.
I know and understand why it is an attractive way for some people to play, it just doesn't appeal to me in any way.
I build my characters based on what I think is "fun", and in the manner that makes playing the game as much fun as I can possibly squeeze out of this game.
I don't run any "end-game" content. I don't do PvP, Trials, Group Dungeons, the Maelstrom Arena, nor any of the Undaunted pledges. I simply play and RP happily in my own little bubble. It does aggravate me when I have someone who does run that end-game content tell me that I'm "playing the game wrong", especially when I'm commenting on a post that has nothing to do with end-game content.
If that's the way that person wants to play, that's fine. More power to them.
But I don't play that content, I have no desire to play that content, so how does my method of play affect them in any way?
If a PvP-centric player wants to chase the Meta and continually race to the top, that's fine. Do that. More power to you.
But don't tell me I'm wrong because I don't play that way. I'm playing this MMO the way I want to play it, and in the most fun manner to my perception. I don't duck into end-game/Meta threads and tell those people who enjoy that that they're playing the game wrong, so please don't do it to me.
That's really all I ever ask.
Just let me play in peace, because I have no interest in end-game content or the Meta, so how I play will never affect what you are trying to do at the end-game.
In all fairness there are plenty of casual players who tell min maxers they play the game wrong as well. With the #1 point always being "I don't min Max, I play for fun". Passive aggressively stating that min maxers like me aren't having funMechanically Challenged, PCNA competitive raid guild
Head of The Council of Raiders
First NA vAS Hardmode(#2 world)
World First Immortal Redeemer & Saintly Savior
All #1 Trial scores Clockwork City patch0 -
SolidusPrime✭✭✭✭My entire guild is RL friends that have played since launch.
None of us have ever looked up the "perfect" builds, or gave two *** about what they were supposed to be. No number crunching, or changing race to mix/max. No DPS counters.
We've done practically every piece of content in the game, without issue. Anyone that tells you you need that crap to play end game is full of it, and you're probably better off playing without them anyway.5 -
Kelces✭✭✭✭✭Rune_Relic wrote: »Diversity still exists, but only depending on what you do in game. (...)
Exactly. PvP is always like this:
Every game I played has this same problem...You reveal yourself best in how you play.
Kelces - Argonian Templar
Farel Donvu - Dark Elf Sorcerer
Navam Llervu - Dark Elf Dragonknight
Aniseth - Wood Elf Warden
Therediel - Wood Elf Templar
Nilonwy - Wood Elf Nightblade
Jurupari - Argonian Warden
Kú-Chulainn - Argonian Sorcerer
PC - EU
For the Pact!4 -
Uriel_Nocturne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
I agree with your point, and that's wrong to do as well.TotallyNotVos wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
I agree with you (and your intent for this post) wholeheartedly, OP.WuffyCerulei wrote: »A lot of times, I see 99.99% of builds for ESO are very much meta and dry-cut. Magicka builds: you HAVE to be Altmer, Breton, or Dunmer. Stamina builds: you HAVE to be Orc or Redguard. Yes, these races all have decent passives for their builds, but it leaves everything feeling the same. You don't see much with creative builds anymore. It's all Twice-Born this or Vicious Ophidian that. People, get creative with your builds. Wanna be a butt-kicking khajiit magicka templar with high damage or a tanky altmer, you can find many ways to get that build to work. Heck, I'm getting a magicka khajiit sorcerer with 40k magicka and 20k dps. Don't let it seem you have to do a meta build to be good. ESO has many many possibilities with builds, especially with One Tamriel.
I've never done the whole "Meta-race-to-the-top" build thing, and frankly, IMHO it is silly to me.
I know and understand why it is an attractive way for some people to play, it just doesn't appeal to me in any way.
I build my characters based on what I think is "fun", and in the manner that makes playing the game as much fun as I can possibly squeeze out of this game.
I don't run any "end-game" content. I don't do PvP, Trials, Group Dungeons, the Maelstrom Arena, nor any of the Undaunted pledges. I simply play and RP happily in my own little bubble. It does aggravate me when I have someone who does run that end-game content tell me that I'm "playing the game wrong", especially when I'm commenting on a post that has nothing to do with end-game content.
If that's the way that person wants to play, that's fine. More power to them.
But I don't play that content, I have no desire to play that content, so how does my method of play affect them in any way?
If a PvP-centric player wants to chase the Meta and continually race to the top, that's fine. Do that. More power to you.
But don't tell me I'm wrong because I don't play that way. I'm playing this MMO the way I want to play it, and in the most fun manner to my perception. I don't duck into end-game/Meta threads and tell those people who enjoy that that they're playing the game wrong, so please don't do it to me.
That's really all I ever ask.
Just let me play in peace, because I have no interest in end-game content or the Meta, so how I play will never affect what you are trying to do at the end-game.
In all fairness there are plenty of casual players who tell min maxers they play the game wrong as well. With the #1 point always being "I don't min Max, I play for fun". Passive aggressively stating that min maxers like me aren't having fun
My post was from my point of view and nothing more. I was only describing what I've experienced over on the "carebear" side of the game. lol
What I was trying to point out in my post is: just let everyone play.
Whether you're chasing the Meta for end-game, or you're a "hardcore" RP-PvE player, or someone in the middle of those, just let people play.
The only "wrong" way to play an MMO, is to tell people on any side of the game that they're "playing wrong".
Everyone should just let everyone else play how they want.
twitch.tv/vampire_nox
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say no to Crown Crates!1 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
I agree with your point, and that's wrong to do as well.TotallyNotVos wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
I agree with you (and your intent for this post) wholeheartedly, OP.WuffyCerulei wrote: »A lot of times, I see 99.99% of builds for ESO are very much meta and dry-cut. Magicka builds: you HAVE to be Altmer, Breton, or Dunmer. Stamina builds: you HAVE to be Orc or Redguard. Yes, these races all have decent passives for their builds, but it leaves everything feeling the same. You don't see much with creative builds anymore. It's all Twice-Born this or Vicious Ophidian that. People, get creative with your builds. Wanna be a butt-kicking khajiit magicka templar with high damage or a tanky altmer, you can find many ways to get that build to work. Heck, I'm getting a magicka khajiit sorcerer with 40k magicka and 20k dps. Don't let it seem you have to do a meta build to be good. ESO has many many possibilities with builds, especially with One Tamriel.
I've never done the whole "Meta-race-to-the-top" build thing, and frankly, IMHO it is silly to me.
I know and understand why it is an attractive way for some people to play, it just doesn't appeal to me in any way.
I build my characters based on what I think is "fun", and in the manner that makes playing the game as much fun as I can possibly squeeze out of this game.
I don't run any "end-game" content. I don't do PvP, Trials, Group Dungeons, the Maelstrom Arena, nor any of the Undaunted pledges. I simply play and RP happily in my own little bubble. It does aggravate me when I have someone who does run that end-game content tell me that I'm "playing the game wrong", especially when I'm commenting on a post that has nothing to do with end-game content.
If that's the way that person wants to play, that's fine. More power to them.
But I don't play that content, I have no desire to play that content, so how does my method of play affect them in any way?
If a PvP-centric player wants to chase the Meta and continually race to the top, that's fine. Do that. More power to you.
But don't tell me I'm wrong because I don't play that way. I'm playing this MMO the way I want to play it, and in the most fun manner to my perception. I don't duck into end-game/Meta threads and tell those people who enjoy that that they're playing the game wrong, so please don't do it to me.
That's really all I ever ask.
Just let me play in peace, because I have no interest in end-game content or the Meta, so how I play will never affect what you are trying to do at the end-game.
In all fairness there are plenty of casual players who tell min maxers they play the game wrong as well. With the #1 point always being "I don't min Max, I play for fun". Passive aggressively stating that min maxers like me aren't having fun
My post was from my point of view and nothing more. I was only describing what I've experienced over on the "carebear" side of the game. lol
What I was trying to point out in my post is: just let everyone play.
Whether you're chasing the Meta for end-game, or you're a "hardcore" RP-PvE player, or someone in the middle of those, just let people play.
The only "wrong" way to play an MMO, is to tell people on any side of the game that they're "playing wrong".
Everyone should just let everyone else play how they want.
This doesn't work. Letting everyone play how they want leads to a 5 hour Vet Helra run. People have the right to use whatever build they want, but they don't have the right to impose that on other players. Play however you want, but don't get upset when you get excluded because of your stamina force pulse build.Edited by timidobserver on October 31, 2016 2:05PMV16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)0 -
Uriel_Nocturne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Thank you for proving the very point of my original post (the one before the one you quoted).timidobserver wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
I agree with your point, and that's wrong to do as well.TotallyNotVos wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
I agree with you (and your intent for this post) wholeheartedly, OP.WuffyCerulei wrote: »A lot of times, I see 99.99% of builds for ESO are very much meta and dry-cut. Magicka builds: you HAVE to be Altmer, Breton, or Dunmer. Stamina builds: you HAVE to be Orc or Redguard. Yes, these races all have decent passives for their builds, but it leaves everything feeling the same. You don't see much with creative builds anymore. It's all Twice-Born this or Vicious Ophidian that. People, get creative with your builds. Wanna be a butt-kicking khajiit magicka templar with high damage or a tanky altmer, you can find many ways to get that build to work. Heck, I'm getting a magicka khajiit sorcerer with 40k magicka and 20k dps. Don't let it seem you have to do a meta build to be good. ESO has many many possibilities with builds, especially with One Tamriel.
I've never done the whole "Meta-race-to-the-top" build thing, and frankly, IMHO it is silly to me.
I know and understand why it is an attractive way for some people to play, it just doesn't appeal to me in any way.
I build my characters based on what I think is "fun", and in the manner that makes playing the game as much fun as I can possibly squeeze out of this game.
I don't run any "end-game" content. I don't do PvP, Trials, Group Dungeons, the Maelstrom Arena, nor any of the Undaunted pledges. I simply play and RP happily in my own little bubble. It does aggravate me when I have someone who does run that end-game content tell me that I'm "playing the game wrong", especially when I'm commenting on a post that has nothing to do with end-game content.
If that's the way that person wants to play, that's fine. More power to them.
But I don't play that content, I have no desire to play that content, so how does my method of play affect them in any way?
If a PvP-centric player wants to chase the Meta and continually race to the top, that's fine. Do that. More power to you.
But don't tell me I'm wrong because I don't play that way. I'm playing this MMO the way I want to play it, and in the most fun manner to my perception. I don't duck into end-game/Meta threads and tell those people who enjoy that that they're playing the game wrong, so please don't do it to me.
That's really all I ever ask.
Just let me play in peace, because I have no interest in end-game content or the Meta, so how I play will never affect what you are trying to do at the end-game.
In all fairness there are plenty of casual players who tell min maxers they play the game wrong as well. With the #1 point always being "I don't min Max, I play for fun". Passive aggressively stating that min maxers like me aren't having fun
My post was from my point of view and nothing more. I was only describing what I've experienced over on the "carebear" side of the game. lol
What I was trying to point out in my post is: just let everyone play.
Whether you're chasing the Meta for end-game, or you're a "hardcore" RP-PvE player, or someone in the middle of those, just let people play.
The only "wrong" way to play an MMO, is to tell people on any side of the game that they're "playing wrong".
Everyone should just let everyone else play how they want.
This doesn't work. Letting everyone play how they want leads to a 5 hour Vet Helra run. People have the right to use whatever build they want, but they don't have the right to impose that on other players. Play however you want, but don't get upset when you get excluded because of your stamina force pulse build.
Had you read it, you would see that your response was/is unnecessary.
But thank you, again, for illustrating what I was saying.
twitch.tv/vampire_nox
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say no to Crown Crates!3 -
Snit✭✭✭✭✭
✭Play as you like. It's your time.
But please don't queue for vet dungeons with an awful build. Because now you're infringing on others' time. If you want to play a altmer, pure-archer DPS, good on you. I hope it's fun. That doesn't mean I want to carry you through ICP or Mazzatun because you're effectively useless in difficult content.
TESO does a bad job of preparing players for endgame PvE. There's a core conflict between the "play as you like" balance of overworld and quest content and the challenging fights in vet dungeons and trials. Happily, most players seem willing to learn once they see that.
Edited by Snit on October 31, 2016 2:16PMSnit AD Sorc
Ratbag AD Warden Tank
Goblins AD Stamblade0 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
My response was directed at the base cause of the conflict in this thread. Players getting excluded from endgame groups for not using an endgame build.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Thank you for proving the very point of my original post (the one before the one you quoted).timidobserver wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
I agree with your point, and that's wrong to do as well.TotallyNotVos wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
I agree with you (and your intent for this post) wholeheartedly, OP.WuffyCerulei wrote: »A lot of times, I see 99.99% of builds for ESO are very much meta and dry-cut. Magicka builds: you HAVE to be Altmer, Breton, or Dunmer. Stamina builds: you HAVE to be Orc or Redguard. Yes, these races all have decent passives for their builds, but it leaves everything feeling the same. You don't see much with creative builds anymore. It's all Twice-Born this or Vicious Ophidian that. People, get creative with your builds. Wanna be a butt-kicking khajiit magicka templar with high damage or a tanky altmer, you can find many ways to get that build to work. Heck, I'm getting a magicka khajiit sorcerer with 40k magicka and 20k dps. Don't let it seem you have to do a meta build to be good. ESO has many many possibilities with builds, especially with One Tamriel.
I've never done the whole "Meta-race-to-the-top" build thing, and frankly, IMHO it is silly to me.
I know and understand why it is an attractive way for some people to play, it just doesn't appeal to me in any way.
I build my characters based on what I think is "fun", and in the manner that makes playing the game as much fun as I can possibly squeeze out of this game.
I don't run any "end-game" content. I don't do PvP, Trials, Group Dungeons, the Maelstrom Arena, nor any of the Undaunted pledges. I simply play and RP happily in my own little bubble. It does aggravate me when I have someone who does run that end-game content tell me that I'm "playing the game wrong", especially when I'm commenting on a post that has nothing to do with end-game content.
If that's the way that person wants to play, that's fine. More power to them.
But I don't play that content, I have no desire to play that content, so how does my method of play affect them in any way?
If a PvP-centric player wants to chase the Meta and continually race to the top, that's fine. Do that. More power to you.
But don't tell me I'm wrong because I don't play that way. I'm playing this MMO the way I want to play it, and in the most fun manner to my perception. I don't duck into end-game/Meta threads and tell those people who enjoy that that they're playing the game wrong, so please don't do it to me.
That's really all I ever ask.
Just let me play in peace, because I have no interest in end-game content or the Meta, so how I play will never affect what you are trying to do at the end-game.
In all fairness there are plenty of casual players who tell min maxers they play the game wrong as well. With the #1 point always being "I don't min Max, I play for fun". Passive aggressively stating that min maxers like me aren't having fun
My post was from my point of view and nothing more. I was only describing what I've experienced over on the "carebear" side of the game. lol
What I was trying to point out in my post is: just let everyone play.
Whether you're chasing the Meta for end-game, or you're a "hardcore" RP-PvE player, or someone in the middle of those, just let people play.
The only "wrong" way to play an MMO, is to tell people on any side of the game that they're "playing wrong".
Everyone should just let everyone else play how they want.
This doesn't work. Letting everyone play how they want leads to a 5 hour Vet Helra run. People have the right to use whatever build they want, but they don't have the right to impose that on other players. Play however you want, but don't get upset when you get excluded because of your stamina force pulse build.
Had you read it, you would see that your response was/is unnecessary.
But thank you, again, for illustrating what I was saying.
Just read your previous post and I don't even understand how a problem exists for you. If you do no group content, how do you even get into a situation where people comment on your build? I can't imagine some endgame player randomly barging into your RP circle to tell you how bad your build is.V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)4 -
FoolishHuman✭✭✭✭✭The problem is when people don't just play their own character, but also look and judge how others play. Once the first MMOs had dps meters and inspection of other players it all went downhill.
Now it's all about "wasting" someones time, which is really just 10 minutes or so more and it doesn't even make sense because playing the game in itself can't be a "waste" when it is already recreational. Then people brought the term "work" into games, suddenly it's not about having fun and recreation anymore and people that play for those reasons are "scrubs" and "carebears".
And noone is explaining anything anymore. I've played a few dungeons here and not once had anyone explained any mechanics or anything, even with several low level players in the group. And woe to those that stop and read the quest texts or loot the crates. You are expected to get all information from outside sources now, get your build learn the dungeons by heart and then work like a little cog in the never ending clockwork, no thinking, no actual playing, just functioning - or else you are a noob.
The only players that ever waste my time in MMOs are entitled try-hards that begin cursing at and insulting their own teammates because they play a different way than them. I wonder why that kind of attitude is accepted while playing the wrong race or having a slower rotation is such a big thing for everyone.10 -
Uriel_Nocturne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
So. Much. This.FoolishHuman wrote: »The problem is when people don't just play their own character, but also look and judge how others play. Once the first MMOs had dps meters and inspection of other players it all went downhill.
Now it's all about "wasting" someones time, which is really just 10 minutes or so more and it doesn't even make sense because playing the game in itself can't be a "waste" when it is already recreational. Then people brought the term "work" into games, suddenly it's not about having fun and recreation anymore and people that play for those reasons are "scrubs" and "carebears".
And noone is explaining anything anymore. I've played a few dungeons here and not once had anyone explained any mechanics or anything, even with several low level players in the group. And woe to those that stop and read the quest texts or loot the crates. You are expected to get all information from outside sources now, get your build learn the dungeons by heart and then work like a little cog in the never ending clockwork, no thinking, no actual playing, just functioning - or else you are a noob.
The only players that ever waste my time in MMOs are entitled try-hards that begin cursing at and insulting their own teammates because they play a different way than them. I wonder why that kind of attitude is accepted while playing the wrong race or having a slower rotation is such a big thing for everyone.
twitch.tv/vampire_nox
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say no to Crown Crates!1 -
Curtdogg47✭✭✭✭Myrrdinn2014 wrote: »I truly do miss the older days MMO's like Everquest. There your healer healed your dps dps'd and your tank tanked. As long as the stuff died no one gave a *** how fast it was killed or who did the most damage...IT DIED. Nowdays with dps mods and everything else under the sun its just a major pissing contest and reason to just be an elitist prick and kick people cause they dont have the time to spend in a video game like you do. If the stuff dies who the hell cares who did what dps it died and you didnt that should be all that mattes. And yeah before you even say it ESO does not have mechanics harder then EQ ever had so dont even bother playing that card nowday MMO's are so dumbed down its not even remotely funny.
I agree, if you beat the dungeon, that's all that matters to me. If we beat the dungeon and get the extra key I consider that a nice bonus.
What I don't get is the people that want the prefect group using the group finder tool. Obviously if you group with random people your are going to get a random bunch of setups.
For most content I feel as long as the Tank keeps tanking, the healer heals and the DPS does DPS you can get through it.2