New Atronach Mounts in Crown Crates

Cazzy · October 2016

Solus wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Osteos wrote: »

But this thread isn't about the communities feeling on crown crates, the OP wanted to know the odds were based on people testing them on the pts. Ranting about how the community feels and telling the op not to make threads on the subject was an incorrect rude response, especially from a community ambassador. Anyways the op got their answer and you guys already have an anti crown crate rant thread. Time to move along.

@Solus

I am a dude

Well it's hard to tell and I'm not the type to creep on profiles. I never assume genders until I am informed otherwise.

Well I'm an Octopus. Smell my tentacle!

olsborg · October 2016

I have 23k crowns waiting on these crates, obviously not gonna burn all that on them, but atleast a fair bit. Just because.

nine9six · October 2016

*** Crown Crates

DahliaNight · October 2016

But to add to what the the discussion has now become there is a site called change.org if anybody here is interested in making a petition to potentially stop crown crates. If anybody does pick this up make a thread with the link in the description. Just a thought polls and complaining probably won't do much.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN · October 2016

Well on the bright side the crown crates did not show up in the Crown Store showcase for next month.

Abeille · October 2016

Thanks @FLuFFyxMuFFiN ! I didn't notice it was up already! Love the circlets and hair styles!

FLuFFyxMuFFiN · October 2016

Abeille wrote: »

Thanks @FLuFFyxMuFFiN ! I didn't notice it was up already! Love the circlets and hair styles!

@Abeille

I know they look awesome! I am also super excited for the Alliance themed markings.

Solus · October 2016

implemented

DahliaNight wrote: »

But to add to what the the discussion has now become there is a site called change.org if anybody here is interested in making a petition to potentially stop crown crates. If anybody does pick this up make a thread with the link in the description. Just a thought polls and complaining probably won't do much.

https://www.change.org/p/zenimax-stop-crown-crates-from-being-implemented-into-elder-scrolls-online?recruiter=618574874&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink

*Drops Mic*

DahliaNight · October 2016

@Solus Why are you dropping mic? I'm not against this I was the one that suggested it lol now make your own thread for it and try to get as many people as possible to sign it. Or would ZOS close it?

Solus · October 2016

DahliaNight wrote: »

@Solus Why are you dropping mic? I'm not against this I was the one that suggested it lol now make your own thread for it and try to get as many people as possible to sign it. Or would ZOS close it?

Because it was actually done. And the thread has been made

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/300281/paws-change-org-against-crown-crates#latest

DahliaNight · October 2016

@Solus Oh OK well I've already signed it hopefully more people will too.

Riggsy · October 2016

So let me get this straight, the only legitimate criticism against crown crates is that the mounts and visual morphs people really want are super rare therefore requiring most people to spend a lot of money to "roll the dice" for things they want and that crown crates have nothing to do with pay to win?

Whats the issue with that? Why are you all complaining over a feature that requires you to spend money if you want a cool mount? Last time I checked Zeni was a business and not a charity. They need to put food on the table and clothe their kids just like everyone else. I for one think this is a great way to raise money for something that is the furthest from ptw. Its an optional feature you are not forced to participate in, which in no way impacts your characters ability/skill/power/etc. In fact, when ZOS does implement it and I see someone with a rare mount Ill consider them either very lucky or a person who cares enough about the game, with enough disposable income, to pay to support the people who make it.

Solus · October 2016

Riggsy wrote: »

So let me get this straight, the only legitimate criticism against crown crates is that the mounts and visual morphs people really want are super rare therefore requiring most people to spend a lot of money to "roll the dice" for things they want and that crown crates have nothing to do with pay to win?

Whats the issue with that? Why are you all complaining over a feature that requires you to possibly spend money if you want a cool mount? Last time I checked Zeni was a business and not a charity. They need to put food on the table and clothe their kids just like everyone else. I for one think this is a great way to raise money for something that is the furthest from ptw. Its an optional feature you are not forced to participate in, which in no way impacts your characters ability/skill/power/etc. In fact, when ZOS does implement it and I see someone with a rare mount Ill consider them either very lucky or a person who cares enough about the game, with enough disposable income, to pay to support the people who make it.

Mostly because it was stated that they wouldnt go this direction, and apparently they are. Its been two years since release, and they make a fair amount of money already what with the DLC and monthly subscribers. I get they need to make money to feed their families, but this is like an act of desperation, and the money made off of crown crates guaranteed wont go back into something constructive.

wayfarerx · October 2016

Riggsy wrote: »

So let me get this straight, the only legitimate criticism against crown crates is that the mounts and visual morphs people really want are super rare therefore requiring most people to spend a lot of money to "roll the dice" for things they want and that crown crates have nothing to do with pay to win?

No, that is not the only legitimate complaint. There are thousands and thousands of comments, that are linked to in this thread, espousing many different problems with the crates. Everything from ethical concerns to worries about how much this kind of whale-bait will detract from development in other parts of the game.

Riggsy wrote: »

Whats the issue with that? Why are you all complaining over a feature that requires you to spend money if you want a cool mount? Last time I checked Zeni was a business and not a charity. They need to put food on the table and clothe their kids just like everyone else. I for one think this is a great way to raise money for something that is the furthest from ptw. Its an optional feature you are not forced to participate in, which in no way impacts your characters ability/skill/power/etc. In fact, when ZOS does implement it and I see someone with a rare mount Ill consider them either very lucky or a person who cares enough about the game, with enough disposable income, to pay to support the people who make it.

Nobody wants free stuff here, many of us have spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars on this game. Just because the crown crates don't impact the parts of the game you are concerned about (ability/skill/power/etc) does not mean that other people with other concerns are similarly unaffected.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN · October 2016

Solus wrote: »

Riggsy wrote: »

So let me get this straight, the only legitimate criticism against crown crates is that the mounts and visual morphs people really want are super rare therefore requiring most people to spend a lot of money to "roll the dice" for things they want and that crown crates have nothing to do with pay to win?

Whats the issue with that? Why are you all complaining over a feature that requires you to possibly spend money if you want a cool mount? Last time I checked Zeni was a business and not a charity. They need to put food on the table and clothe their kids just like everyone else. I for one think this is a great way to raise money for something that is the furthest from ptw. Its an optional feature you are not forced to participate in, which in no way impacts your characters ability/skill/power/etc. In fact, when ZOS does implement it and I see someone with a rare mount Ill consider them either very lucky or a person who cares enough about the game, with enough disposable income, to pay to support the people who make it.

Mostly because it was stated that they wouldnt go this direction, and apparently they are. Its been two years since release, and they make a fair amount of money already what with the DLC and monthly subscribers. I get they need to make money to feed their families, but this is like an act of desperation, and the money made off of crown crates guaranteed wont go back into something constructive.

How can you guarantee it won't go into anything constructive? Also do you have a link where they stated they would never go in this direction?

Solus · October 2016

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

Solus wrote: »

Riggsy wrote: »

So let me get this straight, the only legitimate criticism against crown crates is that the mounts and visual morphs people really want are super rare therefore requiring most people to spend a lot of money to "roll the dice" for things they want and that crown crates have nothing to do with pay to win?

Whats the issue with that? Why are you all complaining over a feature that requires you to possibly spend money if you want a cool mount? Last time I checked Zeni was a business and not a charity. They need to put food on the table and clothe their kids just like everyone else. I for one think this is a great way to raise money for something that is the furthest from ptw. Its an optional feature you are not forced to participate in, which in no way impacts your characters ability/skill/power/etc. In fact, when ZOS does implement it and I see someone with a rare mount Ill consider them either very lucky or a person who cares enough about the game, with enough disposable income, to pay to support the people who make it.

Mostly because it was stated that they wouldnt go this direction, and apparently they are. Its been two years since release, and they make a fair amount of money already what with the DLC and monthly subscribers. I get they need to make money to feed their families, but this is like an act of desperation, and the money made off of crown crates guaranteed wont go back into something constructive.

How can you guarantee it won't go into anything constructive? Also do you have a link where they stated they would never go in this direction?

How can you guarentee that it would? And i dont have a link, it was talked about in the PTS forum, a few individuals that have been here since the beta days were the ones that stated it.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN · October 2016

Solus wrote: »

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

Solus wrote: »

Riggsy wrote: »

So let me get this straight, the only legitimate criticism against crown crates is that the mounts and visual morphs people really want are super rare therefore requiring most people to spend a lot of money to "roll the dice" for things they want and that crown crates have nothing to do with pay to win?

Whats the issue with that? Why are you all complaining over a feature that requires you to possibly spend money if you want a cool mount? Last time I checked Zeni was a business and not a charity. They need to put food on the table and clothe their kids just like everyone else. I for one think this is a great way to raise money for something that is the furthest from ptw. Its an optional feature you are not forced to participate in, which in no way impacts your characters ability/skill/power/etc. In fact, when ZOS does implement it and I see someone with a rare mount Ill consider them either very lucky or a person who cares enough about the game, with enough disposable income, to pay to support the people who make it.

Mostly because it was stated that they wouldnt go this direction, and apparently they are. Its been two years since release, and they make a fair amount of money already what with the DLC and monthly subscribers. I get they need to make money to feed their families, but this is like an act of desperation, and the money made off of crown crates guaranteed wont go back into something constructive.

How can you guarantee it won't go into anything constructive? Also do you have a link where they stated they would never go in this direction?

How can you guarentee that it would? And i dont have a link, it was talked about in the PTS forum, a few individuals that have been here since the beta days were the ones that stated it.

I can't which is my point. Nobody can guarantee anything except ZOS. I have been here since beta too and the only thing I remember them saying is that they will never go P2W which they have still stood by that statement.

Solus · October 2016

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

Solus wrote: »

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

Solus wrote: »

Riggsy wrote: »

So let me get this straight, the only legitimate criticism against crown crates is that the mounts and visual morphs people really want are super rare therefore requiring most people to spend a lot of money to "roll the dice" for things they want and that crown crates have nothing to do with pay to win?

Whats the issue with that? Why are you all complaining over a feature that requires you to possibly spend money if you want a cool mount? Last time I checked Zeni was a business and not a charity. They need to put food on the table and clothe their kids just like everyone else. I for one think this is a great way to raise money for something that is the furthest from ptw. Its an optional feature you are not forced to participate in, which in no way impacts your characters ability/skill/power/etc. In fact, when ZOS does implement it and I see someone with a rare mount Ill consider them either very lucky or a person who cares enough about the game, with enough disposable income, to pay to support the people who make it.

Mostly because it was stated that they wouldnt go this direction, and apparently they are. Its been two years since release, and they make a fair amount of money already what with the DLC and monthly subscribers. I get they need to make money to feed their families, but this is like an act of desperation, and the money made off of crown crates guaranteed wont go back into something constructive.

How can you guarantee it won't go into anything constructive? Also do you have a link where they stated they would never go in this direction?

How can you guarentee that it would? And i dont have a link, it was talked about in the PTS forum, a few individuals that have been here since the beta days were the ones that stated it.

I can't which is my point. Nobody can guarantee anything except ZOS. I have been here since beta too and the only thing I remember them saying is that they will never go P2W which they have still stood by that statement.

The crown crate implement is a step in that direction however, as other MMOs that go down that path ultimately become a P2W.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN · October 2016

That may be the case with other MMOs but we will have to wait and see if they do it here too. I highly doubt they will start putting weapons and armor into the crown store. As of right now there is no evidence that supports P2W is coming to ESO.

Solus · October 2016

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

That may be the case with other MMOs but we will have to wait and see if they do it here too. I highly doubt they will start putting weapons and armor into the crown store. As of right now there is no evidence that supports P2W is coming to ESO.

True, but the same can be said about Dark Orbit for example, right out of the gate you can just buy elite gear and the best ship with money, when i played years ago this wasnt the case. Never played WOW but i believe when it first came out there wasnt a "buy gold here" option. There is now.

I would just not like to see ESO be this way, or have any variation of it.

Riggsy · October 2016

Solus wrote: »

Mostly because it was stated that they wouldnt go this direction, and apparently they are. Its been two years since release, and they make a fair amount of money already what with the DLC and monthly subscribers. I get they need to make money to feed their families, but this is like an act of desperation, and the money made off of crown crates guaranteed wont go back into something constructive.

They make a fair amount of money, where is your proof? Have you looked over this company's financials because I'd be interested in seeing this information. From my research, and their moves with the crown store, they are not rolling in cash. Furthermore, the idea that they "wouldnt go this direction" is hilarious considering they started as a sub only game to compete with WOW then had to give it away buy to play style. I'd be interested in also reading who exactly from ZOS said they would not go in this direction, or how you interpret that.

wayfarerx wrote: »

...Everything from ethical concerns to worries about how much this kind of whale-bait will detract from development in other parts of the game...

Nobody wants free stuff here, many of us have spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars on this game. Just because the crown crates don't impact the parts of the game you are concerned about (ability/skill/power/etc) does not mean that other people with other concerns are similarly unaffected.

You have no proof it will detract from other development other than "since beta" players who don't work for the company. In fact I contend crates would promote more development as seen with every release since the crown store was implemented AND with the upcoming housing (which was in the works when the original crate concept was finished). Moreover, the so called ethical violation is non-existent, no one is forcing you to go to the virtual casino and roll the dice. Its as silly as saying Zeni not having subscription rates based on country poverty levels in unethical because all our money is not the same. Or unethical because Zeni does not offer more than two genders, or unethical because whatever you think is wrong.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN · October 2016

People can assume that the game will become P2W because of these crates all they want. I could also assume that since we got a Dragonborn costume then ZOS will add the ability to become Dragonborn. We can assume all we want but that doesn't make it true.

wayfarerx · October 2016

Riggsy wrote: »

Solus wrote: »

Mostly because it was stated that they wouldnt go this direction, and apparently they are. Its been two years since release, and they make a fair amount of money already what with the DLC and monthly subscribers. I get they need to make money to feed their families, but this is like an act of desperation, and the money made off of crown crates guaranteed wont go back into something constructive.

They make a fair amount of money, where is your proof? Have you looked over this company's financials because I'd be interested in seeing this information. From my research, and their moves with the crown store, they are not rolling in cash. Furthermore, the idea that they "wouldnt go this direction" is hilarious considering they started as a sub only game to compete with WOW then had to give it away buy to play style. I'd be interested in also reading who exactly from ZOS said they would not go in this direction, or how you interpret that.

wayfarerx wrote: »

...Everything from ethical concerns to worries about how much this kind of whale-bait will detract from development in other parts of the game...

Nobody wants free stuff here, many of us have spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars on this game. Just because the crown crates don't impact the parts of the game you are concerned about (ability/skill/power/etc) does not mean that other people with other concerns are similarly unaffected.

You have no proof it will detract from other development other than "since beta" players who don't work for the company. In fact I contend crates would promote more development as seen with every release since the crown store was implemented AND with the upcoming housing (which was in the works when the original crate concept was finished).

Conversely, you have no proof otherwise. None of us have any proof of anything, so I don't even know why that is part of this discussion. I very clearly said "worries" and "concerns." All we have to go by is the behavior or other companies/games that went this route, and unfortunately the majority of those cases did not result in gambling funds going back into the actual game.

Riggsy wrote: »

Moreover, the so called ethical violation is non-existent, no one is forcing you to go to the virtual casino and roll the dice. Its as silly as saying Zeni not having subscription rates based on country poverty levels in unethical because all our money is not the same. Or unethical because Zeni does not offer more than two genders, or unethical because whatever you think is wrong.

You seem pretty committed to telling everyone else how to feel about these crates and pretty confident that your ethical convictions are the objectively correct ones for everyone everywhere. So I'll leave you to your ethical absolutism and false equivalencies, have fun with that.

JimT722 · October 2016

Riggsy wrote: »

So let me get this straight, the only legitimate criticism against crown crates is that the mounts and visual morphs people really want are super rare therefore requiring most people to spend a lot of money to "roll the dice" for things they want and that crown crates have nothing to do with pay to win?

Whats the issue with that? Why are you all complaining over a feature that requires you to spend money if you want a cool mount? Last time I checked Zeni was a business and not a charity. They need to put food on the table and clothe their kids just like everyone else. I for one think this is a great way to raise money for something that is the furthest from ptw. Its an optional feature you are not forced to participate in, which in no way impacts your characters ability/skill/power/etc. In fact, when ZOS does implement it and I see someone with a rare mount Ill consider them either very lucky or a person who cares enough about the game, with enough disposable income, to pay to support the people who make it.

They have been selling everything for a flat price. Why do you think they are adding rng purchase system. The answer is psychology. It is designed to get people spending absurd amounts of money. There is no way they are hurting for money. Why should people want to support a company who desires to screw its customers.

mad0ni0n · October 2016

Woeler wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

There are no Crown Crates in the live game. There is no eta for Crown Crates in the live game. We hope they do not add the Crown Crates to the Live Game.

So, we don't know and the only way to test them is on the PTS, and no way to know if those drop rates are what we would expect if they ever make it to Live.

"We" hope? Speak for yourself.

Woeler, unsurprisingly, the voice of reason in a sea of conspiracy theories.

Vorcil · October 2016

wayfarerx wrote: »

Riggsy wrote: »

Solus wrote: »

Mostly because it was stated that they wouldnt go this direction, and apparently they are. Its been two years since release, and they make a fair amount of money already what with the DLC and monthly subscribers. I get they need to make money to feed their families, but this is like an act of desperation, and the money made off of crown crates guaranteed wont go back into something constructive.

They make a fair amount of money, where is your proof? Have you looked over this company's financials because I'd be interested in seeing this information. From my research, and their moves with the crown store, they are not rolling in cash. Furthermore, the idea that they "wouldnt go this direction" is hilarious considering they started as a sub only game to compete with WOW then had to give it away buy to play style. I'd be interested in also reading who exactly from ZOS said they would not go in this direction, or how you interpret that.

wayfarerx wrote: »

...Everything from ethical concerns to worries about how much this kind of whale-bait will detract from development in other parts of the game...

Nobody wants free stuff here, many of us have spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars on this game. Just because the crown crates don't impact the parts of the game you are concerned about (ability/skill/power/etc) does not mean that other people with other concerns are similarly unaffected.

You have no proof it will detract from other development other than "since beta" players who don't work for the company. In fact I contend crates would promote more development as seen with every release since the crown store was implemented AND with the upcoming housing (which was in the works when the original crate concept was finished).

Conversely, you have no proof otherwise. None of us have any proof of anything, so I don't even know why that is part of this discussion. I very clearly said "worries" and "concerns." All we have to go by is the behavior or other companies/games that went this route, and unfortunately the majority of those cases did not result in gambling funds going back into the actual game.

Riggsy wrote: »

Moreover, the so called ethical violation is non-existent, no one is forcing you to go to the virtual casino and roll the dice. Its as silly as saying Zeni not having subscription rates based on country poverty levels in unethical because all our money is not the same. Or unethical because Zeni does not offer more than two genders, or unethical because whatever you think is wrong.

You seem pretty committed to telling everyone else how to feel about these crates and pretty confident that your ethical convictions are the objectively correct ones for everyone everywhere. So I'll leave you to your ethical absolutism and false equivalencies, have fun with that.

This is science vs religious logic;

Each to their own saying 'you have to prove to me'

The fact is Crown Crates would promote revenue for ZOS
The fact is revenue to ZOS would promote development

There is nothing inbetween

If you don't want to spend money on crown crates, then do not do it
99% of players who dislike the idea of crown crates, only dislike it because they have to spend a lot of money to get specific items, where they feel a sense of entitlement to said items
Just because ZOS has been handing everyone the means to attain the same items, doesn't mean that it should be made that way forever
I like the fact that only some players can obtain limited of a time items
I like the fact that it will be hard to attain APEX mounts

You can't prevent this
PAWS can't prevent this from happening
because PAWS represents 0.000001 percent of the player base and is just a hipster forum movement

[Snip]

[Edit to remove bait.]

JimT722 · October 2016

Vorcil wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

Riggsy wrote: »

Solus wrote: »

Mostly because it was stated that they wouldnt go this direction, and apparently they are. Its been two years since release, and they make a fair amount of money already what with the DLC and monthly subscribers. I get they need to make money to feed their families, but this is like an act of desperation, and the money made off of crown crates guaranteed wont go back into something constructive.

They make a fair amount of money, where is your proof? Have you looked over this company's financials because I'd be interested in seeing this information. From my research, and their moves with the crown store, they are not rolling in cash. Furthermore, the idea that they "wouldnt go this direction" is hilarious considering they started as a sub only game to compete with WOW then had to give it away buy to play style. I'd be interested in also reading who exactly from ZOS said they would not go in this direction, or how you interpret that.

wayfarerx wrote: »

...Everything from ethical concerns to worries about how much this kind of whale-bait will detract from development in other parts of the game...

Nobody wants free stuff here, many of us have spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars on this game. Just because the crown crates don't impact the parts of the game you are concerned about (ability/skill/power/etc) does not mean that other people with other concerns are similarly unaffected.

You have no proof it will detract from other development other than "since beta" players who don't work for the company. In fact I contend crates would promote more development as seen with every release since the crown store was implemented AND with the upcoming housing (which was in the works when the original crate concept was finished).

Conversely, you have no proof otherwise. None of us have any proof of anything, so I don't even know why that is part of this discussion. I very clearly said "worries" and "concerns." All we have to go by is the behavior or other companies/games that went this route, and unfortunately the majority of those cases did not result in gambling funds going back into the actual game.

Riggsy wrote: »

Moreover, the so called ethical violation is non-existent, no one is forcing you to go to the virtual casino and roll the dice. Its as silly as saying Zeni not having subscription rates based on country poverty levels in unethical because all our money is not the same. Or unethical because Zeni does not offer more than two genders, or unethical because whatever you think is wrong.

You seem pretty committed to telling everyone else how to feel about these crates and pretty confident that your ethical convictions are the objectively correct ones for everyone everywhere. So I'll leave you to your ethical absolutism and false equivalencies, have fun with that.

This is science vs religious logic;

Each to their own saying 'you have to prove to me'

The fact is Crown Crates would promote revenue for ZOS
The fact is revenue to ZOS would promote development

There is nothing inbetween

If you don't want to spend money on crown crates, then do not do it
99% of players who dislike the idea of crown crates, only dislike it because they have to spend a lot of money to get specific items, where they feel a sense of entitlement to said items
Just because ZOS has been handing everyone the means to attain the same items, doesn't mean that it should be made that way forever
I like the fact that only some players can obtain limited of a time items
I like the fact that it will be hard to attain APEX mounts

You can't prevent this
PAWS can't prevent this from happening
because PAWS represents 0.000001 percent of the player base and is just a hipster forum movement

[Snip]

[Edit to remove bait.]

How about hard to obtain mounts through hard to complete content. That would make them rare. People spending hundreds of dollars for a chance to obtain a rare mount is foolish. Also I'm sure this will lead to development if successful. They will be hard at work to further monetize the game because of how much fools will spend for possibly nothing. It has happened in every other game I've played.

Why should I believe eso will be any better?

mad0ni0n · October 2016

JimT722 wrote: »

Vorcil wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

Riggsy wrote: »

Solus wrote: »

Mostly because it was stated that they wouldnt go this direction, and apparently they are. Its been two years since release, and they make a fair amount of money already what with the DLC and monthly subscribers. I get they need to make money to feed their families, but this is like an act of desperation, and the money made off of crown crates guaranteed wont go back into something constructive.

They make a fair amount of money, where is your proof? Have you looked over this company's financials because I'd be interested in seeing this information. From my research, and their moves with the crown store, they are not rolling in cash. Furthermore, the idea that they "wouldnt go this direction" is hilarious considering they started as a sub only game to compete with WOW then had to give it away buy to play style. I'd be interested in also reading who exactly from ZOS said they would not go in this direction, or how you interpret that.

wayfarerx wrote: »

...Everything from ethical concerns to worries about how much this kind of whale-bait will detract from development in other parts of the game...

Nobody wants free stuff here, many of us have spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars on this game. Just because the crown crates don't impact the parts of the game you are concerned about (ability/skill/power/etc) does not mean that other people with other concerns are similarly unaffected.

You have no proof it will detract from other development other than "since beta" players who don't work for the company. In fact I contend crates would promote more development as seen with every release since the crown store was implemented AND with the upcoming housing (which was in the works when the original crate concept was finished).

Conversely, you have no proof otherwise. None of us have any proof of anything, so I don't even know why that is part of this discussion. I very clearly said "worries" and "concerns." All we have to go by is the behavior or other companies/games that went this route, and unfortunately the majority of those cases did not result in gambling funds going back into the actual game.

Riggsy wrote: »

Moreover, the so called ethical violation is non-existent, no one is forcing you to go to the virtual casino and roll the dice. Its as silly as saying Zeni not having subscription rates based on country poverty levels in unethical because all our money is not the same. Or unethical because Zeni does not offer more than two genders, or unethical because whatever you think is wrong.

You seem pretty committed to telling everyone else how to feel about these crates and pretty confident that your ethical convictions are the objectively correct ones for everyone everywhere. So I'll leave you to your ethical absolutism and false equivalencies, have fun with that.

This is science vs religious logic;

Each to their own saying 'you have to prove to me'

The fact is Crown Crates would promote revenue for ZOS
The fact is revenue to ZOS would promote development

There is nothing inbetween

If you don't want to spend money on crown crates, then do not do it
99% of players who dislike the idea of crown crates, only dislike it because they have to spend a lot of money to get specific items, where they feel a sense of entitlement to said items
Just because ZOS has been handing everyone the means to attain the same items, doesn't mean that it should be made that way forever
I like the fact that only some players can obtain limited of a time items
I like the fact that it will be hard to attain APEX mounts

You can't prevent this
PAWS can't prevent this from happening
because PAWS represents 0.000001 percent of the player base and is just a hipster forum movement

get rekt
*drops the mic*
moon walks away

How about hard to obtain mounts through hard to complete content. That would make them rare. People spending hundreds of dollars for a chance to obtain a rare mount is foolish. Also I'm sure this will lead to development if successful. They will be hard at work to further monetize the game because of how much fools will spend for possibly nothing. It has happened in every other game I've played.

Why should I believe eso will be any better?

So just keep playing the game and then IF what you describe actually happens to eso then stop playing it.

wayfarerx · October 2016

Vorcil wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

Riggsy wrote: »

Solus wrote: »

Mostly because it was stated that they wouldnt go this direction, and apparently they are. Its been two years since release, and they make a fair amount of money already what with the DLC and monthly subscribers. I get they need to make money to feed their families, but this is like an act of desperation, and the money made off of crown crates guaranteed wont go back into something constructive.

They make a fair amount of money, where is your proof? Have you looked over this company's financials because I'd be interested in seeing this information. From my research, and their moves with the crown store, they are not rolling in cash. Furthermore, the idea that they "wouldnt go this direction" is hilarious considering they started as a sub only game to compete with WOW then had to give it away buy to play style. I'd be interested in also reading who exactly from ZOS said they would not go in this direction, or how you interpret that.

wayfarerx wrote: »

...Everything from ethical concerns to worries about how much this kind of whale-bait will detract from development in other parts of the game...

Nobody wants free stuff here, many of us have spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars on this game. Just because the crown crates don't impact the parts of the game you are concerned about (ability/skill/power/etc) does not mean that other people with other concerns are similarly unaffected.

You have no proof it will detract from other development other than "since beta" players who don't work for the company. In fact I contend crates would promote more development as seen with every release since the crown store was implemented AND with the upcoming housing (which was in the works when the original crate concept was finished).

Conversely, you have no proof otherwise. None of us have any proof of anything, so I don't even know why that is part of this discussion. I very clearly said "worries" and "concerns." All we have to go by is the behavior or other companies/games that went this route, and unfortunately the majority of those cases did not result in gambling funds going back into the actual game.

Riggsy wrote: »

Moreover, the so called ethical violation is non-existent, no one is forcing you to go to the virtual casino and roll the dice. Its as silly as saying Zeni not having subscription rates based on country poverty levels in unethical because all our money is not the same. Or unethical because Zeni does not offer more than two genders, or unethical because whatever you think is wrong.

You seem pretty committed to telling everyone else how to feel about these crates and pretty confident that your ethical convictions are the objectively correct ones for everyone everywhere. So I'll leave you to your ethical absolutism and false equivalencies, have fun with that.

This is science vs religious logic;

WAT? What does this even... I mean it's not... WTH is going on here?

Vorcil wrote: »

Each to their own saying 'you have to prove to me'

The fact is Crown Crates would promote revenue for ZOS
The fact is revenue to ZOS would promote development

There is nothing inbetween

Well because you said it it must be true, the plentiful relevant examples to the contrary must be some kind of shared hallucination.

Vorcil wrote: »

If you don't want to spend money on crown crates, then do not do it
99% of players who dislike the idea of crown crates, only dislike it because they have to spend a lot of money to get specific items, where they feel a sense of entitlement to said items
Just because ZOS has been handing everyone the means to attain the same items, doesn't mean that it should be made that way forever
I like the fact that only some players can obtain limited of a time items
I like the fact that it will be hard to attain APEX mounts

Sorry, I was not aware you could see inside everyone's head and read their thoughts. All those complaining for a different reason must be hiding something.

Vorcil wrote: »

You can't prevent this
PAWS can't prevent this from happening

We won't prevent the crates from coming, true, but we might be able to influence ZOS to go a slightly different direction that feels less scammy to us. Worth a shot at least IMO.

Vorcil wrote: »

because PAWS represents 0.000001 percent of the player base and is just a hipster forum movement

Achievement Unlocked: Called a "Hipster" on a video game forum. I got "SJW" recently, if I can get "White Knight" I think I'll have bingo.

mad0ni0n · October 2016

wayfarerx wrote: »

Vorcil wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

Riggsy wrote: »

Solus wrote: »

Mostly because it was stated that they wouldnt go this direction, and apparently they are. Its been two years since release, and they make a fair amount of money already what with the DLC and monthly subscribers. I get they need to make money to feed their families, but this is like an act of desperation, and the money made off of crown crates guaranteed wont go back into something constructive.

They make a fair amount of money, where is your proof? Have you looked over this company's financials because I'd be interested in seeing this information. From my research, and their moves with the crown store, they are not rolling in cash. Furthermore, the idea that they "wouldnt go this direction" is hilarious considering they started as a sub only game to compete with WOW then had to give it away buy to play style. I'd be interested in also reading who exactly from ZOS said they would not go in this direction, or how you interpret that.

wayfarerx wrote: »

...Everything from ethical concerns to worries about how much this kind of whale-bait will detract from development in other parts of the game...

Nobody wants free stuff here, many of us have spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars on this game. Just because the crown crates don't impact the parts of the game you are concerned about (ability/skill/power/etc) does not mean that other people with other concerns are similarly unaffected.

You have no proof it will detract from other development other than "since beta" players who don't work for the company. In fact I contend crates would promote more development as seen with every release since the crown store was implemented AND with the upcoming housing (which was in the works when the original crate concept was finished).

Conversely, you have no proof otherwise. None of us have any proof of anything, so I don't even know why that is part of this discussion. I very clearly said "worries" and "concerns." All we have to go by is the behavior or other companies/games that went this route, and unfortunately the majority of those cases did not result in gambling funds going back into the actual game.

Riggsy wrote: »

Moreover, the so called ethical violation is non-existent, no one is forcing you to go to the virtual casino and roll the dice. Its as silly as saying Zeni not having subscription rates based on country poverty levels in unethical because all our money is not the same. Or unethical because Zeni does not offer more than two genders, or unethical because whatever you think is wrong.

You seem pretty committed to telling everyone else how to feel about these crates and pretty confident that your ethical convictions are the objectively correct ones for everyone everywhere. So I'll leave you to your ethical absolutism and false equivalencies, have fun with that.

This is science vs religious logic;

WAT? What does this even... I mean it's not... WTH is going on here?

Vorcil wrote: »

Each to their own saying 'you have to prove to me'

The fact is Crown Crates would promote revenue for ZOS
The fact is revenue to ZOS would promote development

There is nothing inbetween

Well because you said it it must be true, the plentiful relevant examples to the contrary must be some kind of shared hallucination.

Vorcil wrote: »

If you don't want to spend money on crown crates, then do not do it
99% of players who dislike the idea of crown crates, only dislike it because they have to spend a lot of money to get specific items, where they feel a sense of entitlement to said items
Just because ZOS has been handing everyone the means to attain the same items, doesn't mean that it should be made that way forever
I like the fact that only some players can obtain limited of a time items
I like the fact that it will be hard to attain APEX mounts

Sorry, I was not aware you could see inside everyone's head and read their thoughts. All those complaining for a different reason must be hiding something.

Vorcil wrote: »

You can't prevent this
PAWS can't prevent this from happening

We won't prevent the crates from coming, true, but we might be able to influence ZOS to go a slightly different direction that feels less scammy to us. Worth a shot at least IMO.

Vorcil wrote: »

because PAWS represents 0.000001 percent of the player base and is just a hipster forum movement

Achievement Unlocked: Called a "Hipster" on a video game forum. I got "SJW" recently, if I can get "White Knight" I think I'll have bingo.

These "relevant examples to the contrary" are what exactly? I had a look through and I couldn't find anything. We can't possibly know the financial position of the game so to claim that we could know that whether further revenue would or wouldn't promote additional development is wrong. All we can say is that more revenue will most likely allow the game to operate for longer. Whether you want to play that game is a decision for each player.