Xrucible wrote: »

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

Xrucible wrote: »

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

CultOfMMO wrote: »

i know most people think dps is such a brain dead role, but decent dps is probably the rarest thing in this game, especially when you consider the fact that you need at least 8 dps per trial group.

This. I'm of the opinion that dishing out constant, high-end dps is MUCH harder than endgame healing or tanking.

As some one who has Tanked, DPSed and Healed all vet trials including some hard modes I disagree. DPS is a brain dead role in this game. I can pull 25k just spamming wrecking blow or snipe with dots. All you have to do is not stand in stupid and do your rotation. That is enough to clear all craglorn vet trials.

Healing is probably the hardest role in the game. Keeping buffs up, providing resources and making sure the group is alive. It is much more a dynamic role than DPS.

If you think tanking is easy you are lucky to have a good tank in your group. Though not as hard as healing it is another dynamic role compared to dpsing.

I have a tank, a healer, and a couple dps characters. There's nothing brain dead about dps. Try pulling 45-50k with Wrecking Blow spam.

I think you misunderstood my statement yes to pull 45-50k you need lots of practice and raid buffs. Almost all the craglorn trials barring VAA hard mode can be completed with 20k dps.

This game is easy. People make it unnecessarily complicated.

Nickernator wrote: »

kylewwefan wrote: »

Well, it wasn't exactly a PUG; it was all guild players....from a few different guilds, but nowhere near enough DPS. Why is it so freaking hard to find good DPS? Why do I keep doing this to myself? Maybe I should just stick with daily pledges.

One of these days the stars will align and well burn through the Warrior or Mage or Celestial Serpent. Til then F the vet trials. Maybe next weekend. Or tonight. Hehe.

There are some people that can't deal good DPS because they don't have the required gear, if they can get the gear they want. And especially from HellRa drops some good gear, then they can do better DPS.

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Nickernator wrote: »

kylewwefan wrote: »

Well, it wasn't exactly a PUG; it was all guild players....from a few different guilds, but nowhere near enough DPS. Why is it so freaking hard to find good DPS? Why do I keep doing this to myself? Maybe I should just stick with daily pledges.

One of these days the stars will align and well burn through the Warrior or Mage or Celestial Serpent. Til then F the vet trials. Maybe next weekend. Or tonight. Hehe.

There are some people that can't deal good DPS because they don't have the required gear, if they can get the gear they want. And especially from HellRa drops some good gear, then they can do better DPS.

Exactly. The fact that the only way to get the proper gear is to grind, and not everyone has the time to do it. If Zos would knock off the BOP and actually let us (who do have time to grind) start selling loot then perhaps players would start to gain access to good gear from an investment point of view.

My DPS would probably sky rocketed if I was able to purchase couple of inferno vMA staffs from the guild stores.

I could get them myself I suppose... but I prefer to play in a group rather then solo.

Artis wrote: »

Nebthet78 wrote: »

You seem to come across as having an extrmely elitist attitude and that is one of the things that is sorely wrong with this game and why so many players are beginning to complain on this forum.

And you seem to come across as having an extremely carebear let's-give-stuff-to-everyone attitude, so?
My attitude absolutely doesn't matter. Substance is more important than the form. What I"m saying is true and you know it. If you don't like how it sounds, maybe it's the case of "truth hurts"?

Nebthet78 wrote: »

For myself. I find Normal Trials to be boring and too easy for me. So running them is not really all that fun.
But finding a good group of people versed enough in Vet Trials who are willing to take someone who may not pull top dps (off by between 2-7k), but at least knows the mechanics and listens to the group leader instead of screwing around is harder than you think. Especially if you are a girl.

You are delusional. Especially if you are a girl. Girls get spots in trial groups all the time because it's oh so cool and progressive to have a girl and a female voice in teamspeak make it seem that we aren't complete nerds.

In fact, I remember this girl that I found and she would run in my group and we would help her etc, we didn't even know she was a girl before we all used TS for the first time. But then some other players would always take her so she'd hang out with them and be in their group and stuff all the time and would carry her to top leader board positions, train her etc etc. Would they put that much effort into a random guy? Doubt it. So don't even start that "especially if you are a girl". Girls get way more attention and help.

Never seen a raid leader flirt with girls when they generally talk down to ("lead") or simply ignore other guys?

Nebthet78 wrote: »

"Ruin the game for the majority to cater to minority" you say? Boy are you wrong.

No.

Nebthet78 wrote: »

Another issue I've seen in a couple guilds over the last month is; now that normal trials only drops blue items, people no longer want to run them as they feel the rewards are not good enough for the effort they put into it, so even if you have a scheduled guild trials date and time, you are wasting 30-40 minute trying to find enough people to do the run and trying to pull from other guilds. This frustrates higher tier players who have the dps.

That's an issue for everyone and always has been. That's the main issue with group content - organization. Average time it takes for end-game guilds where people sign up in advance to get ready is your 20-30 mins, counting from when invites are coming out until the first pull. So spending just 10 mins longer than that is not an issue if you think you deserve that gear.

The gear quality means nothing except for jewelry (where it means almost nothing), gear can be upgraded. And jewelry? It doesn't add much stat, the difference is miniscule, but it's good that you can't upgrade. That gives people incentive to do vet trials, or why would they do them otherwise if you could get the same rewards putting WAY less effort? Such system would affect the majority of players.

Nebthet78 wrote: »

It is the minority of players who are able to complete Vet and Vet Hardmode trials right now that want things to remain as hard as they are. The majority of players are walking away from doing them because they don't feel rewarded and it's no longer fun for them.

And it's good. It's a normal curve, only a minority can complete all content or no content at all. And it's good that others walk away. They are too weak and don't deserve rewards. They can get anything from their normal trials except jewelry will be worse. Are you really saying that it's good for the health of the game if different difficulties will have the same reward? Can't you see that they are just whining and being selfish and trying to get what's better for them short term rather than what's better for everyone long term?

Nebthet78 wrote: »

And yes, 20k is very doable with raid buffs, the problem is, a lot of these guilds want you to be able to do it without the buffs first and that's what sucks.

Well 20k without buffs is still doable and very average. Without buffs guilds that you'd call "elitist" expect you to do 30k+, which is not very simple. I thought you were talking about the dps in trials.

Nebthet78 wrote: »

I have run with a couple of the higher tier guilds as a pull in for Vet Mode and there is a considerable difference in skill level between these players and the typical casual player or even a hardcore good player. And yes, this was recently. They have honed their roles and skills over a lot of time and it shows.

Yes, and you know what's the difference between those players and casual players? It's not skill - it's the mindset. Instead of whining that rewards aren't good enough, they understand that all players are in the same conditions and instead of whining they simply need to get better. There's absolutely no reason anyone else can't do that in PvE where everything is repetitive. If a person is bad, it's his choice. He can always practice and get there, especially if you are talking about just 20k dps. That is very average.

Your problem is that you don't have requirements. You call elitists out on their requirements, but those requirements are only in place so that they don't find themselves in your situation where a group doesn't have enough DPS. They went through this when they started, they don't want to do it again. Now it's your turn to go through this and some of you will evolve into a next generation of good players.

Nebthet78 wrote: »

My problem is, many of these guilds are not willing to take the time to help or train others. I have seen time and time again, someone who is good enough want to do Vet Trials, but because they are only a couple points off from meeting required DPS, or in the worse case, they are a female player (and yes, there are plenty of female players in many of the top guilds too), they are not considered or asked.

Wtf is that? Female player is the worse case? Female players are the ones who get personal training sessions if anything. Yes, for them someone who's good will find time and take time to explain everything and teach. It's male players who have to read and maybe get some replies in chat if they are lucky. Being a couple points off is the same for everyone - male of female won't be in a raid if they don't meet requirements. Don't bring up sexes here. DPS is a number and doesn't care about your sex.

Nebthet78 wrote: »

People like me, also, who have a disability, but finds ways to overcome them as best as possible are also left behind because those with elitist attitudes don't want to work with us to help us become better with our rotations in a manner we are able to deal with. DPS wise for me.... My tanking on the other hand I have no issue with and is fun, but I like the challenge of DPS to work at.

Well, I'm sorry, so what do you want others to do? They don't know if you're disabled or not, all they know - and all they want to know - is how much DPS you deal. If you don't like it, maybe you should find another guild with lower requirements? Or maybe be a healer or tank where you don't need to weave attacks as much? Or maybe start your own group and you'll see how you'll have no choice but to raise requirements to max CP or 20k dps unbuffed or whatever, so that you can complete content comfortably. That'll teach you not to call out elitists too - they do what's necessary.

And why do you think you are entitled to their help? They already help a lot by writing guides for everyone and making videos. Those are enough to improve. And well if you are a female - I'm telling you, you can get personal training if you look for it. That's how it usually goes. Unless you are anti-social or something. How else can they help you anyway? You don't really intersect with them in game since they are running trials with other elitists.

Nebthet78 wrote: »

Oh and in regards the Jewellery, and being topped tier.. well, no one said it should be handed to them... but funny how you say, people who can't earn it, don't deserve it.. Guess what Bucky!! I can just go to Cyrodiil and buy Gold Jewellery if I REALLY feel I need it!! So don't hold your breathe about them not adding jewellery crafting and upgrading at some point, because it is coming.

No, it's not coming. It was removed actually. We crafted jewelry in beta, now it's gone and it's good. You have to reward players who put in more effort with something players who put in less effort can't get. If you don't do it, there will be no motivation for people to play. There will be no differentiation and the game will be like some MOBA.

And good for you. So go to Cyrodiil and get it then.

And yes, exactly, people who can't earn it - don't deserve it. Idk though, maybe it's some rhetoric funny for native English speakers or something, but yeah. They don't. There are other people who can complete vet trials and get those items. => the problem is not in trials, it's in players who can't complete them.

Nebthet78 wrote: »

What the hell are you talking about " Less content for those with limitations?" Who said that? Are you Daft or seeing only what you want to see?
I said they needed to ADD an additional difficulty tier to Trials. One that is ABOVE normal difficulty, but Below Vet Difficulty as a stepping stone for players to get better in preperation for Vet Trials because Normal doesn't have the same mechanics and is too easy. Even for me, who has limitations! There would also be NO LEADERBOARDS for that version of Trials, just like there are none for Normal. And receiving purple jewellery at the end of that version is reasonable for the difficulty.

I think I see where your problem is. You can't read, can you? Then of course you won't read guides and learn rotations.

I was discussing aloud what to do. I said - they should maybe buff normal version that we have now, but then it might become to difficult for players with limitations, so therefore they should add a difficulty in between normal and veteran. And then described what you described here.

Nebthet78 wrote: »

Seems to me, like you are afraid the MAJORITY of gamers might actually like to run that verson of Trials I'm proposing and have MORE FUN with it than trying to run the current Vet versions and getting pissed off and quitting or tired of feeling excluded.
I'm not asking for them to dumb anything down... just to add a stepping stone, a tier of progress that is not currently there, that A LOT of players actually have the ability to accomplish and work towards.

Why would I even care about that? I obviously agree they should get something like that, which you'd see if you read the comments.

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

You dont just find good people, you make good people.

There even used to be a guild for that. Training Wheels.

KingYogi415 wrote: »

As some who has lead many vet hel rah runs. The truth is you need to leave every one not max CP or stormproof out.

VAA I'd say all stormproofs.

Even max cp players lie. I have def had to replace to odd person I noticed dropping runes from his eternal hunt set.

The problem with guild runs is that every 300-400 feels entitled to be carryied through because they are in the guild.

Of course if you are willing to vet and train players I'm sure there a couple well geared 450's floating around.

SolarCat02 wrote: »

I would love a medium-difficulty version of the Trials. We are working on teaching basic mechanics via the normal, but quite a few members are itching for a bit more of a challenge, yet the DPS isn't where it needs to be yet for the veteran version.

(Normal Hel Ra Citadel took 45 minutes last night, with only two wipes, both rooted in unfortunate controller button bumps starting the fight early during the pre-fight mechanics speeches.)

We are working with the lower damage players to pull their numbers up, and it's only a matter of time before we will have outgrown the normal... But we have a ways to go to get to veteran Trials level. So medium difficulty would be awesome!

On a different note, I have been looking at the DPS numbers given in this thread as examples.
I wanted to run a guild event to test DPS (Bloodspawn obviously), and wanted to give a basic scale for numbers so people has an idea of where they stood.
Would this be somewhat accurate?
5k - still learning the basics
10k - ESO average (~3:00)
20k - competent player (~1:30)
30k - minimum for veteran trials (~1:00)
45k - elite veteran trials guild average (~0:40)

TotallyNotVos wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

As some who has lead many vet hel rah runs. The truth is you need to leave every one not max CP or stormproof out.

VAA I'd say all stormproofs.

Even max cp players lie. I have def had to replace to odd person I noticed dropping runes from his eternal hunt set.

The problem with guild runs is that every 300-400 feels entitled to be carryied through because they are in the guild.

Of course if you are willing to vet and train players I'm sure there a couple well geared 450's floating around.

That's the dumbest thing I've read in this thread yet. I took a 180cp through vet maw last week. You do not need Max cp or a vma completion to clear hel ra

KingYogi415 wrote: »

As some who has lead many vet hel rah runs. The truth is you need to leave every one not max CP or stormproof out.

VAA I'd say all stormproofs.

Even max cp players lie. I have def had to replace to odd person I noticed dropping runes from his eternal hunt set.

The problem with guild runs is that every 300-400 feels entitled to be carryied through because they are in the guild.

Of course if you are willing to vet and train players I'm sure there a couple well geared 450's floating around.