Best In Slot MagBlade?
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exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
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Why do people keep recommending Skoria and Spellweave? What DoT am I supposed to be using, and what fire damage? I mean, I use WoE on trash, and I don't think it counts as a DoT, but that's it...
http://www.eso-skillfactory.com/en/build/nightblade/dungeon-magblade/14209/
Why Neri over spell damage? I feel like Neri would suck against single target, and only be good for trash mobs, whereas spell power is good for everything. Or is it still good for single target?
Also, whatever happened to Julianos? I thought that was the best for magicka builds...
Single target dps? What are the DoTs I would use for the build you are suggesting?
You poor soul...0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »
Yeah thats what ive been trying to run, ive been in CoA for literally days looking for that staff. BIS for support DKs is that build with Aether. BiS for overall damage would of course be moondancer isntead of aether.
I wonder how viable that setup is on a sorc? I honestly have never tried 5-piece moondancer. Seems like one of those sets that is cool in theory, but might have issues functioning the way you want in practice. The game clearly wants me to run it as I just got both the sharp moondancer and BSW in the span of 2 days. Haha.
I take it you basically just smash synergies on your back bar every 30 seconds until you get the damage one then go about your business.0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Khaos_Bane wrote: »29 replies and 29 different answers lol.
For any other class, the answer would be more straight forward. From a competitive PVE DPS standpoint, most people have their mageblade on a shelf. Currently, they just seem to be a weaker version of a sorc, so they arent getting as much attention as they used to. Sorcs and NBs have historically used very similar gear for Meta Builds.
The problem with the class, IMO, can be traced to merciless resolve. At first glance, it looks great. It lasts long, and you get a huge damage boost and a very predictable proc that hit's really hard (similar to Crystal Frags on a sorc).
The problem is twofold:
First, the awesome damage buff (Minor Berserk) is meaningless in a proper group. Combat prayer gives you the exactly the same buff, and the current Meta is aiming for 100% uptime on combat prayer from your healers in a raid setting.
Second, the proc (which does hit hard) only hits half as hard as the tool tip says when factoring it into your calculations, because you have to cast 2 skills for it to fire, the buff, and the proc. So even if Frags only hit 51% as hard as a spectral bow proc, Frags is a superior skill for DPS in a proper raid. I think the tool tip damage is closer to 90%, so the skills arent even close from a DPS point of view.
If you want to compare the other skills on a Sorc and NB, you realize they are pretty similar in playstyle.
Twisting path vs Liquid Lightening: Both ground based multi target dots. LL does more damage by a long shot.
Crippling Grasp vs Curse: Both effectively Single Target DOTS, but Curse is really more of a delayed damage. Grasp is more single target DPS, but if their are adds on the screen, curse is more damage per cast.
Killers Blade vs Mages Wrath: Killers blade does hit harder and scale sooner, but like most sorc skills, Mages Wrath has splash damage. This one is probably a wash.
Both Run Blockade, so that is a wash.
Sorry for rant, but yeah.3 -
Mojmir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭what makes magblade still a viable build for me is aoe from sap,we were in a good spot for pve before they nerfed proxy det. I'm wondering how well the set that boost destro abilities would be?0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭what makes magblade still a viable build for me is aoe from sap,we were in a good spot for pve before they nerfed proxy det. I'm wondering how well the set that boost destro abilities would be?
I cant imagine all that great in PVE as you only use 2 destro abilities (force Pulse and Blockade).
Mageblade can still be really good in four man stuff. All the skills I just compared to sorc do have utility I didnt mention (Movement speed, self heals, etc.), and merciless resolve is not a bad skill if you arent being spammed by combat prayer.
Sap is also really good AOE. In 4-man dungeons, its awesome. Problem is you cant spam sap for 5 minutes straight in one of the VMOL gauntlets. It costs way too much, and siphoning strikes aint what it used to be. The utility I mentioned in a raid amounts to nothing more than some off heals.
There are still some crazy Siphopnblades out their in some of the big EU guilds pulling really good numbers, but most of them have been maining NB since launch. My bet is that if you made them play sorc for a month, they would pull even more DPS. The player is still the most important part. Haha1 -
Mojmir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »
I cant imagine all that great in PVE as you only use 2 destro abilities (force Pulse and Blockade).
Mageblade can still be really good in four man stuff. All the skills I just compared to sorc do have utility I didnt mention (Movement speed, self heals, etc.), and merciless resolve is not a bad skill if you arent being spammed by combat prayer.
Sap is also really good AOE. In 4-man dungeons, its awesome. Problem is you cant spam sap for 5 minutes straight in one of the VMOL gauntlets. It costs way too much, and siphoning strikes aint what it used to be. The utility I mentioned in a raid amounts to nothing more than some off heals.
There are still some crazy Siphopnblades out their in some of the big EU guilds pulling really good numbers, but most of them have been maining NB since launch. My bet is that if you made them play sorc for a month, they would pull even more DPS. The player is still the most important part. Haha
I run with my magblades quite a bit in all settings,we still have the most survivability, I was just hoping for something that stood out for us this update.0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »
I wonder how viable that setup is on a sorc? I honestly have never tried 5-piece moondancer. Seems like one of those sets that is cool in theory, but might have issues functioning the way you want in practice. The game clearly wants me to run it as I just got both the sharp moondancer and BSW in the span of 2 days. Haha.
I take it you basically just smash synergies on your back bar every 30 seconds until you get the damage one then go about your business.
Hey, yeah I was thinking of testing in on a sorc as well as soon as I get my spellweave staff. I was thinking of using blockade, FP, weaves to keep BSW uptime high, but if that isnt enough flame clench as well. Should be OP at least for Ilambris procs. Moondancer works the way you think, but its not hard to get the right proc due to the length of the biff.0 -
Syrani✭✭✭✭Besides gear, you may want to look at redoing your skills. You have some things in there you shouldn't need in a competent group, such as Reaper's Mark, Double Take, and Healing ward. In a 12 man setting, the tanks should be providing the debuff that Reaper's Mark provides. Healing ward should not be needed if you have competent healers, and the same with Double Take. In a competent group, you will want to replace all 3 of those.
I am by no means a top of the line player, but here is what I use for my bars:
Destro:
Mage Light
Force Pulse
Elemental Blockade (use this for both single target and AOE)
Merciless Resolve
Crippling Grasp
Ult: Shooting Star (this is the ult I use)
DW:
Mage Light
Twisting Path
Impale
Sap Essence
Siphoning Attacks
Ult: Soul Harvest for fast ult regen (I don't actually use this ult)
For my gear, I am using:
5x Scathing, all Divines (thinking of going back to TBS)
2x Nerien'eth Divines (one med, one heavy)
4x Aether (3 jewelry, one sharpened fire destro)
EDIT: DW swords are 2x Torugs
I am not super great with DPS, but I can get around 25k with that set up and those skills. If you happen to be in a group where the healer doesn't provide sustain, or prefers to DPS more than they heal, you can switch out Force Pulse for Funnel Health, and Twisting Path for Harness Magicka. This will be a bit of a DPS loss, but you do zero DPS while dead.Edited by Syrani on October 18, 2016 1:12AM0 -
pewbis✭✭Besides gear, you may want to look at redoing your skills. You have some things in there you shouldn't need in a competent group, such as Reaper's Mark, Double Take, and Healing ward. In a 12 man setting, the tanks should be providing the debuff that Reaper's Mark provides. Healing ward should not be needed if you have competent healers, and the same with Double Take. In a competent group, you will want to replace all 3 of those.
I am not super great with DPS, but I can get around 25k with that set up and those skills. If you happen to be in a group where the healer doesn't provide sustain, or prefers to DPS more than they heal, you can switch out Force Pulse for Funnel Health, and Twisting Path for Harness Magicka. This will be a bit of a DPS loss, but you do zero DPS while dead.
The reason I put reaper's mark on my bar was because I had this crazy idea that I could put it on an add every 5 seconds and burst it down for a 25% damage boost, but... upon further thought, that idea is pretty stupid.
As for double take, a 1/5 dodge is an interesting mechanic, but I haven't seen it make too much of a difference in terms of my survivability, so yeah I'll take that out.
Healing ward, though... it has saved me many times, even with good healers. When you forget to block or you're getting bursted down by adds and you get down to 10% health suddenly, sometimes even good healers can't bail you out of that one quick enough if they don't see it right away or are in the middle of casting some other spell... So, I think I'll keep at least that on the bar.
But, thanks for clearing up two of my less important slots. I think to replace them, I'm going to put cripple for a DoT and magelight on the backbar.
One thing that nobody seems to answer for me though, is does Wall of Elements proc Skoria? Also, as you seem to be a fairly qualified NB, how much more dps does force pulse do over funnel health?
Is it worth adding structured entropy to one of my bars for the 5% health and 2% magicka boost, as well as having a long range way to get Major Sorcery perk, and to proc Skoria more often? (Mainly, my reason behind it is the last one, so if WoE and cripple are enough to proc Skoria consistently than that's good enough for me.) Thanks.
So, http://www.eso-skillfactory.com/en/build-planer/#f3,r8,c3,235:1,238:1,311:1,337:1,554:1,557:1,562:1,569:1,597:1,601:1,607:1,610:1,612:1;235:610:311:612:607:597;235:569:238:601:557:554;4;65,0,0;5,0,2;;0,0,0;15,3; would be the revised build.
Thanks for the help =D0 -
HawkStan✭Still running 5 tbs, 3 aether, 3 willpower, maelstorm backbar. Gets the 30-35k job done in decent raids.
Not sure if its worth trying to get a new setup, probz wont do all that much better.
Only way to rly boost dps is 2 grothdarr, but that means melee, might aswell play my stamblade then.
Guess ill just have to accept the pain of being low end dps for now, untill magblade gets some love. You wont ever see me play something else tho.#VMA token system2 -
pewbis✭✭Destro:
Ult: Shooting Star (this is the ult I use)
DW:
Ult: Soul Harvest for fast ult regen (I don't actually use this ult)
Alright, I just updated it again. I put all my dps abilities on one bar so I only needed magelight once, and then added healing ward into the new slot. Though, because I removed entropy from my dps bar and put it on the set up/buff bar, I changed the morph to the one that probably sucks but for this instance I think is better... I also used your strat of putting meteor on the back bar so that you get the ult regen from Soul Harvest. I think that will definitely improve my DPS.
Though if WoE and cripple are enough to proc Skoria, then I plan on replacing entropy... What would be a good replacement?
Also, the force pulse dps vs funnel health question still stands.
Thanks!1 -
Syrani✭✭✭✭I use meteor on my front bar (destro staff) and have Soul Harvest on my DW bar (back bar). The reason I do this is because Soul Harvest passively provides the ult gain when enemies die, and my back bar is my AOE bar. So, on trash leading up to bosses, I can regen ult quickly in trials like AA and Hel Ra. Vet Maw is a bit different because, even on trash, you will be mainly doing single target damage, so it may be better to have Soul Harvest on your front bar. If a boss has a lot of adds, I can also see it being a benefit to having Soul Harvest on your front bar. But another reason I use Shooting Star on my front bar is because of the Mage's Guild passives:
•Increases Max Magicka and Magicka Regeneration by 2% for each Mages Guild ability slotted
Casting a Mages Guild ability grants Empower, increasing the damage of your next attack by 20% as long as it's activated within 5 seconds.
I cannot answer about Skoria, as I have never tried it.
I also cannot answer with much accuracy as to the DPS discrepancy between Force Pulse and Funnel, as I have Swallow Soul. Plus, its been a very long time since I used Swallow Soul in trials, and can't remember what the difference is. (I am old, my memory is not the greatest)
As for the Healing Ward, I know what you are saying, as I sometimes use Harness Magicka for the same purpose - to keep me alive (and for magicka regen). However, and I do not mean to be rude or demeaning in any way, especially since I have had to use something similar myself - I really think having to use Ward or Harness (in some cases, not all) is a L2P issue in most circumstances. There are times where it is very useful to have a shield (poison in Vet SO for example, or if you are a runner on Vet Maw last boss), but most other times, I think it's just a case of needing to be more "raid aware". It's something that I have struggled with myself, but I find that the more familiar I become with a fight, the better my raid awareness becomes. So, if you find yourself doing better with "staying out of stupid", you could then swap that out for something that will increase your DPS.
As for Entropy, you could use crafted potions to get Major Sorcery, so then you could replace that skill with something that does more damage.
Like I said, I am not the best player in the world, so take what I say with a grain of salt. Experiment with different things to determine what you are comfortable with.0 -
pewbis✭✭No worries, I never thought you were being rude or demeaning, sorry if I made it sound like I did or anything. I think that removing resto staff from my bars might help, and instead going double destro- and using harness magicka instead of healing ward. That way, I don't need to put my survival skill on my dps bar. Previously, my solution to having healing ward on my dps bar was putting impale on the bar w/o magelight, but... that would be a dps loss, so I'm thinking this may be the optimal set up. Are there any abilities better than harness magicka for this, or is that the best one magicka users have right now (I wish there was a magicka rally...)?
Is the 2% magicka increase worth not having the ultimate gain of soul harvest, or should I swap the two?As for Entropy, you could use crafted potions to get Major Sorcery, so then you could replace that skill with something that does more damage.
How long does the major sorcery from these pots last, and what is the cooldown of pots? If it's not 100% or close to 100% uptime, then wouldn't this be a dps loss? And if I could achieve somewhere near 100%, would it be worth to use a pot that gives spell power AND spell crit, and remove magelight, or is magelight's extra magicka too valuable to remove it?
Thanks so much man for helping, my build has improved a lot in the past 24 hours...Edited by pewbis on October 18, 2016 3:12AM0 -
Unsent.Soul✭✭✭✭✭
✭Is wall of elements even necessary?
It'll be 1 of your strongest abilities, and proc skoria.
Current setup for me is:
2 pc skoria med/hvy
5 tbs light
3 willpower.
2x destro for range, no Maelstrom staves yet.
Bar 1, inner light, impale, siphoning, resolve, harness (could place sap instead) soul harvest ult
Bar 2, inner light, blockade, grasp, flame clench, swallow soul. Shooting star ult.
I weave in attacks and keep a steady rotation to keep dots and resolve going.
I have 2 pc Nerien'eth but not divines yet. I've tried that as well. I'll be looking to swap out willpower with 3 jewelry of IA but still need a ring. I'd like to get 2x sharpened IA staves as well.
The setup above has worked great for dungeons and normal trials. I've yet to attempt a vet trial but will be looking forward to when I get a chance.
Any suggestions would help. I'm on xbox so 1T drops tomorrow. Kind of sad there's not much to look forward too with magNB.0 -
pewbis✭✭When using wall of elements and weaving in light attacks, what would be better (just assuming I could get the staff)
1. 5x Julianos, 4x Infalliable, 2x Skoria
2. 4x Julianos, 4x Infalliable, 2x Skoria, Maelstrom Inferno Staff
3. 5x Julianos, 3x Willpower, 2x Skoria, Maelstrom Inferno Staff
? I think that each of these three options could be pretty good... #1 loses the effect of the staff, but #2 loses the 5 piece bonus of Julianos, and #3 trades the 5% damage bonus of Infalliable for Willpower spell power bonus...0 -
Unsent.Soul✭✭✭✭✭
✭@pewbis I'd aim for option number 1, but until then, #2 works for me.
I just need to get my bars sorted out, optimized more or less0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »
Hey, yeah I was thinking of testing in on a sorc as well as soon as I get my spellweave staff. I was thinking of using blockade, FP, weaves to keep BSW uptime high, but if that isnt enough flame clench as well. Should be OP at least for Ilambris procs. Moondancer works the way you think, but its not hard to get the right proc due to the length of the biff.
The issue I see on a sorc with moondancer/spellweave is low crit in exchange for insanely high spell damage when fully buffed (north of 5k). You also lose shadow, which from my understanding is multiplicative with warhorn, so its really powerful and hard to drop in a raid.
I have been running pretty standard sorc bars (double fire staff) with various gear setups. On a 40k Rakkhat parse, my Llambris did 2k fire and 1.7k Lightening DPS. For LLambris, I think you almost have to back bar a fire staff so that you have one fire dot (blockade) and one lightening dot (LL). You might switch those numbers around a bit if you ran lightening on front bar. I just dont know where you put clench unless you drop your execute.
As for the Spell weave, my uptimes are a little all over the place. On bosses, I would say the average is about 55-57%. A perfect world I guess would be 66%, as its an 8 second buff with a 12 second cool down.0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭what is the difference between weavng and medium weaving pls someone
?
The most basic weave in this game involves putting a weapon attack before a skill, so they basically both fire at once. Skills have a global cooldown of approx one second. Take force pulse for example. If you spam the skill over and over, it wont fire faster than about 1 per second, even if you push the button 5 times a second. Weaving a weapon attack increases DPS because you are adding an extra amount of damage into that 1 second window.
There are generally two types of weaves in this scenario, a light weave and a medium weave. Both have pros and cons:
Light weaving means you click (don't hold) the left mouse button (weapon attack) and immediately follow with a skill. This results in a light attack and a skill firing at almost the same time. The advantage to this is that if you do it perfectly, you can generally get a slightly faster rotation. In other words over a long fight, you will get a few more skills off. The downside is that it is much tougher to do from a button pressing standpoint and it is tougher on resources.
A medium weave is very similar, but instead of clicking the mouse button for a light attack, you hold it down for about a half second and then release and press your skill button. This is generally much more fluid and easier to perform. It is much better on resources because you can adjust the length of your weave as your resources get lower. If you are low on magic, you can hold the mouse button a little longer to by yourself some time to regen. The downside obviously is that it is generally a touch slower. The weapon attacks will register as heavy attacks. We call this a medium weave, because you really arent doing fully charged heavy attacks, even though that's how it appears on a damage report.
Basically, if you click the LMB it is a light attack. If you hold it down until the weapon fires on its own, its a fully charged heavy attack (should be noted that most anything that says fully charged heavy attack on weapon sets or tooltips only applies to this type of heavy attack). Anything in the middle of these two is informally known as a "medium" attack. So if you hold your LMB down for say 0.8 seconds and let go, the result will be a "medium" attack.
On a staff there is an easy way to tell. One fire ball is a light attack, two fire balls is either a medium or fully charged heavy attack. I would start with a medium weave as its much easier to do, and the DPS loss is negligible for most. I still do medium weaves in trials and can pull 40k+ on most trial bosses. That being said, the crazy DPS out there pulling 50k are almost certainly light weaving (not suggesting the difference between the two is 10k, just trying to give some insight).
Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on October 18, 2016 10:15PM4 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »
The issue I see on a sorc with moondancer/spellweave is low crit in exchange for insanely high spell damage when fully buffed (north of 5k). You also lose shadow, which from my understanding is multiplicative with warhorn, so its really powerful and hard to drop in a raid.
I have been running pretty standard sorc bars (double fire staff) with various gear setups. On a 40k Rakkhat parse, my Llambris did 2k fire and 1.7k Lightening DPS. For LLambris, I think you almost have to back bar a fire staff so that you have one fire dot (blockade) and one lightening dot (LL). You might switch those numbers around a bit if you ran lightening on front bar. I just dont know where you put clench unless you drop your execute.
As for the Spell weave, my uptimes are a little all over the place. On bosses, I would say the average is about 55-57%. A perfect world I guess would be 66%, as its an 8 second buff with a 12 second cool down.
The burning is very powerful feom spellweave. Makes your blockade hit like a truck.0 -
pewbis✭✭Is there any reason to put points into the "Elfborn" perk, which gives crit damage, over "Elemental Expert," which gives the same % of increased spell power? My current crit chance is 75%.
Also, is it worth sacrificing the 5th piece of the Julianos set in order to equip the 5th piece of the burning spellweave/tbs set? Between the two, which one is better for a magnb? I just realized how long it's going to take me to get the Infalliable set, so... I'm going to settle for less...0 -
SienneYviete✭✭✭✭✭
✭Also, when I use force shock, my magicka goes down REALLY fast and I end up running out often. How can I counter this? Magicka recovery? Would trying to get magicka recovery lower my dps?
In dungeons and trials tell the healer to run elemental drain and or siphon spirit for single target encounters and orbs for regen on trash, all your recovery issues will go away. If you're soloing use elemental drain yourself.Delta
Valheru's0 -
DPG76✭✭✭Would be fine if I removed Sap Essence entirely? And, should DPS have any heals on their bars?
test it out if sap essence suits you , yes any self heals are always welcome and the only one's you have as an NB do respectable damage as well
also , you're not wearing tbs if you don't wear the 5th piece because it's all about that 5 piece bonus for tbs
best advise , test out many abillities on normal npc's and public dungeon to see what fits you because following another's build and rotation may not suit your playstyle and results often failure and unpleasant situations0 -
SienneYviete✭✭✭✭✭
✭Would be fine if I removed Sap Essence entirely? And, should DPS have any heals on their bars?
You need sap essence as your aoe (it can be removed for pure single target fights if you wish) plus this also answers your second question as you're a magicka nightblade you cover your own self heals with abilities (funnel health/sap essence/refreshing path). While having some type of self heal is recommended in 4 man dungeons and 12 man trials you absolutely don't need a resto staff as your abilities have that covered for you.
IMO destro/dual wield swords is the best way to go on a magblade but destro/destro is also viable allowing you to weave while executing.
VMA is a completely different story and I always slot a resto for extra heals in thereEdited by SienneYviete on October 19, 2016 3:54AMDelta
Valheru's0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭SienneYviete wrote: »
You need sap essence as your aoe (it can be removed for pure single target fights if you wish) plus this also answers your second question as you're a magicka nightblade you cover your own self heals with abilities (funnel health/sap essence/refreshing path). While having some type of self heal is recommended in 4 man dungeons and 12 man trials you absolutely don't need a resto staff as your abilities have that covered for you.
IMO destro/dual wield swords is the best way to go on a magblade but destro/destro is also viable allowing you to weave while executing.
VMA is a completely different story and I always slot a resto for extra heals in there
He can always slot siphon on back bar and a lightning staff for free AoE:)0
The increase from running Moondancer would outperform the vMA buff.