AmmonErebos wrote: »

So from what I have seen people tend to agree crafting gear should be on par... but the fact you can buy from others makes it too easily obtainable compared to other item sets...

so what about this... crafting stations that are BIS that create gear that is BOP... potentially with jewelry crafting linked to this, truly rewarding those players who have dedicated months to get the researches... and the materials for the items.

I heard no complaints of "easily obtainable gear" back when the farmers were selling all their set pieces for top $$$.

But if making it BoP (or BoC?) helps with acceptance of crafted gear being as good as dropped gear, so be it. Not in this game to be rich, I just want my time and money spend on research and collecting mats to be just as valuable as someone elses time spend on farming dropped gear.

Vangy wrote: »

I'd be cool with crafted sets being BIS or as good as BIS if the majority of people actually made their own sets. From my 1+ years of experience this is far from the truth. 90% of new players upon hitting 160 cp = LF master crafter WILL TIP WELL, need XXXXXX in XXXXXX!!

[...]

Why do that 2hr vDSA run or that 1hr++ trial if u can just slap on crafted gear that is as good? Sure you can do it for fun but a considerable portion of that fun is finding that shiny gold lewt at the end that is a slight upgrade to ur build.

Good thing dropped sets are now BoP then, since the majority of the people didn't farm their own sets...? There seems to be an aversion to crafters making some money, while everyone was perfectly happy selling motif pages for 80K and dropped Jewelry for 150K.
Plus you don't really "slap on crafted gear", if you want a decent set.

Let people make their own choice, either farm for dropped gear, or farm for mats and do research.

Aemon_Isklexi wrote: »

The quality of the crafted set should reflect the number of traits known needed to craft it. The highest end crafted sets should be on par or a bit better than dungeon loot but below trials gear. There needs to be a bit more of a spectrum for crafted gear quality. Right now, only a few crafted sets are used by the majority of players.

Yes, and two of the most used crafted sets only need like 5 or 6 traits...

And moving this post to the crafting section says a lot about how much they care about it ..

BergisMacBride wrote: »

Agree with second pass and jewelry crafting on crafted sets. Would also like for them to consider adding new crafted sets now that there exist 30 redundant crafting stations in the alliance zones with One Tamriel. Maybe add 3 or so per update.

More of the same what I said a few weeks ago - those stations should be re-purposed for new crafted sets since every zone is available straight away to all players: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/294568/should-new-crafted-sets-be-introduced-at-the-now-redundant-crafting-stations

If there were special traits or jewelry that were craftable that would reward researching, yeah I'd be fine with BOP.

We need jewelry crafting or sets need to be retuned to synergize better with different drop sets to give them all more value. I'd prefer both.

Another suggestion is to allow crafters to assign a bonus 5pc bonus set similar to the trait system. This would improve crafters value and make crafted sets more powerful in many instances.

STEVIL wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

You seem to think im not a crafter....

I have 8 toons who are all maxed with all researches done with almost all motifs short of the very recent ones learnt..... Again, crafted sets alr see lots of play. Crafted gear is still better than 80% of dropped world sets. The 20% tops sets are namely things like VO, Aether, SPC, Alkosh etc. Those are all trial/DLC dungeon sets that should be BIS. What exactly is the problem with crafted gear now?

TBS is still one of the best DPS 5 set pieces. Tavas is still the best and most widely used 5 pc tank set. Healers run SPC from WGT. 5 pc seducer or kags works just fine tho. For PvE at least, crafted sets are doing just fine.

And you do have your own choice. No one is taking that from you. You can happily wear 5 pc TBS and another 5 pc crafted and still pull better numbers than 80% of pug DPS. I had a friend tank vDSA with 5 pc hist bark and 5 pc seducer.

He did just fine. Crafted gear will never be as good as end-game trial gear or DLC dungeon gear. As long as the gap is not too wide, im totally fine with it. It gives people a reason to run said content. A big part of mmo is hunting for your shiny new gear upgrades. Most BIS gear cannot be sold. So yes people do farm it themselves. VO. Aether. SPC. Master weps. MA weps. All of them are BOP. There are certain things you can acquire now via guild stores like red mountain and elegant etc, but those prices will tank to 20-30k soon cos of how common they are going to be plus they are about as good as TBS or kags in terms of effectiveness. You can still make good money as a crafter selling TBS and tavas or kags/seducers etc. The demand is always there.

Ok so regarding the bolds... i would never ever tell someone they aren't a crafter or as you claim even an experienced one but you seem to be making repeated references to wearing two 5pc crafted sets and so i have to wonder since right now without jewel crafting that isn't possible.

But for the main point...

"What exactly is the problem with crafted gear now?"

i speak a player with half of my 12 characters having one-three maxed crafts, having every craft maxed on at least one char though some have three so i do have a trifle bit of experience with the crafting side. So, i am somewhere on the spectrum between rank newbie to crafter and the top crafting dog.

I liked that crafting of all sorts was integral to the play and always vital as a way to develop and progress and setup your character for the most enjoyable gameplay, if not the best.

looking at 1T right now and going forward, the rate of set drops, their variety, their all coming in jewelry and their always scaling to your level has created the situation where for my top characters my goals are to get the right sets/pieces from the drops making the "focus" is on the drop sets going forward. For my developing characters, the newer alts not yet into 50+ levels, where progression is quick, and drop sets alwaysb scaled, i see my using crafted pieces more as filler, place holders, than as key elements - though possibly training will be the major crafted component to get them to 50 more quickly - but again training set pieces drop quickly.

Do not get me wrong - the bolded list in the previous paragraph - i LOVE those changes. They will make casual play questing better in the 1T.

But after doing all that good stuff on the drop-set side of the game, i feel they need to do some for the crafted side inm the upcoming updates to keep crafted and drop-sets on par at least.

i think they need to add some or all of the following:

1. jewel crafting (cuz all drop sets have jewelry.)
2. crafter able to Uplevel crafted sets - keeping the quality (drop sets drop at current level as you advance.)
3. crafter able to at crafting time change one of the 2-3-4pc bonuses for comparable one (to provide variety range of sets like the drops have now.)
4. remove lower cap limit on mats so crafters can use mat to make any level lower than the mat max.
5. Equip writs to require one piece with a trait ans style but if you dont have right style or right trait then add more pieces to offset. (spread out the resource drain across the resources like the consumables do. Also encourages developing style and trait across multiple crafters whereas now its only needed to get one with those filled.)

i aim to push for this as future upgrades come into focus and as they see the results of the changing metrics.

Uhm i never said u were the one who called me not a crafter. I quoted someone else in my post actually. Anyways that aside, you can wear 2 5 piece crafted if u dont run a monster set. Im not saying thats wise, im saying that is possible. And im not saying crafted gear dosent need to be tuned up a bit, but I am against the sentiment that crafted sets are trash. Cos they arent.

And I think crafted sets are serving their purpose exactly as they are supposed to based on ur description. They are things normally new players wear to HELP them get the more exclusive dropped sets. You can do fine in crafted gear, and they are supposed to help u get even better gear. Not be the end all be all BIS gear so that you have 0 need to do any content in the game....

That being said, TBS is still one of the best DPS sets, Tavas is still the most widely used tank set, seducer and kags are still vastly popular for mag dps/heals in PvP. All of them are crafted sets.....

To add, I dont mind them re-working useless old crafted sets to be more relevant. Im also not against jewellery crafting for crafted sets. Neither of these should make crafted sets more powerful than end game dropped sets tho short of the 9 trait crafted sets like TBS.

Vangy wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

You seem to think im not a crafter....

I have 8 toons who are all maxed with all researches done with almost all motifs short of the very recent ones learnt..... Again, crafted sets alr see lots of play. Crafted gear is still better than 80% of dropped world sets. The 20% tops sets are namely things like VO, Aether, SPC, Alkosh etc. Those are all trial/DLC dungeon sets that should be BIS. What exactly is the problem with crafted gear now?

TBS is still one of the best DPS 5 set pieces. Tavas is still the best and most widely used 5 pc tank set. Healers run SPC from WGT. 5 pc seducer or kags works just fine tho. For PvE at least, crafted sets are doing just fine.

And you do have your own choice. No one is taking that from you. You can happily wear 5 pc TBS and another 5 pc crafted and still pull better numbers than 80% of pug DPS. I had a friend tank vDSA with 5 pc hist bark and 5 pc seducer.

He did just fine. Crafted gear will never be as good as end-game trial gear or DLC dungeon gear. As long as the gap is not too wide, im totally fine with it. It gives people a reason to run said content. A big part of mmo is hunting for your shiny new gear upgrades. Most BIS gear cannot be sold. So yes people do farm it themselves. VO. Aether. SPC. Master weps. MA weps. All of them are BOP. There are certain things you can acquire now via guild stores like red mountain and elegant etc, but those prices will tank to 20-30k soon cos of how common they are going to be plus they are about as good as TBS or kags in terms of effectiveness. You can still make good money as a crafter selling TBS and tavas or kags/seducers etc. The demand is always there.

Ok so regarding the bolds... i would never ever tell someone they aren't a crafter or as you claim even an experienced one but you seem to be making repeated references to wearing two 5pc crafted sets and so i have to wonder since right now without jewel crafting that isn't possible.

But for the main point...

"What exactly is the problem with crafted gear now?"

i speak a player with half of my 12 characters having one-three maxed crafts, having every craft maxed on at least one char though some have three so i do have a trifle bit of experience with the crafting side. So, i am somewhere on the spectrum between rank newbie to crafter and the top crafting dog.

I liked that crafting of all sorts was integral to the play and always vital as a way to develop and progress and setup your character for the most enjoyable gameplay, if not the best.

looking at 1T right now and going forward, the rate of set drops, their variety, their all coming in jewelry and their always scaling to your level has created the situation where for my top characters my goals are to get the right sets/pieces from the drops making the "focus" is on the drop sets going forward. For my developing characters, the newer alts not yet into 50+ levels, where progression is quick, and drop sets alwaysb scaled, i see my using crafted pieces more as filler, place holders, than as key elements - though possibly training will be the major crafted component to get them to 50 more quickly - but again training set pieces drop quickly.

Do not get me wrong - the bolded list in the previous paragraph - i LOVE those changes. They will make casual play questing better in the 1T.

But after doing all that good stuff on the drop-set side of the game, i feel they need to do some for the crafted side inm the upcoming updates to keep crafted and drop-sets on par at least.

i think they need to add some or all of the following:

1. jewel crafting (cuz all drop sets have jewelry.)
2. crafter able to Uplevel crafted sets - keeping the quality (drop sets drop at current level as you advance.)
3. crafter able to at crafting time change one of the 2-3-4pc bonuses for comparable one (to provide variety range of sets like the drops have now.)
4. remove lower cap limit on mats so crafters can use mat to make any level lower than the mat max.
5. Equip writs to require one piece with a trait ans style but if you dont have right style or right trait then add more pieces to offset. (spread out the resource drain across the resources like the consumables do. Also encourages developing style and trait across multiple crafters whereas now its only needed to get one with those filled.)

i aim to push for this as future upgrades come into focus and as they see the results of the changing metrics.

Uhm i never said u were the one who called me not a crafter. I quoted someone else in my post actually. Anyways that aside, you can wear 2 5 piece crafted if u dont run a monster set. Im not saying thats wise, im saying that is possible. And im not saying crafted gear dosent need to be tuned up a bit, but I am against the sentiment that crafted sets are trash. Cos they arent.

You can't, at least not at the same time. You have only up to 9 slots available. What you can do is use different sets on each type of weapon, changing the active 5 piece set on weapon swap - but not with TBS you mentioned because you'd instantly lose your second Mundus, which defeats the point of using TBS.

Vangy wrote: »

Uhm i never said u were the one who called me not a crafter. I quoted someone else in my post actually. Anyways that aside, you can wear 2 5 piece crafted if u dont run a monster set. Im not saying thats wise, im saying that is possible. And im not saying crafted gear dosent need to be tuned up a bit, but I am against the sentiment that crafted sets are trash. Cos they arent.

And I think crafted sets are serving their purpose exactly as they are supposed to based on ur description. They are things normally new players wear to HELP them get the more exclusive dropped sets. You can do fine in crafted gear, and they are supposed to help u get even better gear. Not be the end all be all BIS gear so that you have 0 need to do any content in the game....

That being said, TBS is still one of the best DPS sets, Tavas is still the most widely used tank set, seducer and kags are still vastly popular for mag dps/heals in PvP. All of them are crafted sets.....

To add, I dont mind them re-working useless old crafted sets to be more relevant. Im also not against jewellery crafting for crafted sets. Neither of these should make crafted sets more powerful than end game dropped sets tho short of the 9 trait crafted sets like TBS.

First bold, going back to my description

"I liked that crafting of all sorts was integral to the play and always vital as a way to develop and progress and setup your character for the most enjoyable gameplay, if not the best."

Your first bold is where we currently disagree. But it is a purely subjective thing and depends a lot on playstyle.

First a clarity, i am not using any trial, dungeon, raids,arena and even PVP mostly etc exclusive leader vet mode hard mode type locked behind wall drop sets for my comparison and estimates, because those aren't significant amounts of play for so many of the participants. I am using just the zone sets,

IMO there are now so many drop sets of quality as good as or better than crafted, dropping so frequently, dropping at scaled to your level so there is a constant flow of maxed gear for you to make crafting sets more of an after thought, a "fill-in until" (and i dont mean "until we beat VMSA but "until another delve or two") kind of thing and this is IMO especially true with jewels dropping for every drop set from dolmens and even some chests.

That is a serious drop down from the role that crafted gear played with my first 11 characters in their developing stages (1-50 and even then the vet levels.) For my top chars now, farming to get drop sets is a thing and in fact several will likely wind up wit no crafted gear on at all once that is complete. For my post-50 but not fully skilled (need "some of the old gold and silver content done", their drop set acquisitions will play into the same result. For my three pre-50 developing, *IF* I run "traditional style" of marching thru content in usual "bronze quests" and mages and fighters and main then they will see less and less crafting being important as far as gear (esp with training dropping as frquently as it does.)

As for whats BIS, the latest META and so on... as described by many some of the sets but not the majority have some roles there sure, But i think as 1t moves forward especially with so many new sets entering the mix (spriggan and spinner i believe are getting lotsa buzz right now) that will as always shift.


Second bold, we agree on several things then.

To be clear, i am not one in favor of a significant power up for crafted sets...
adding jewels as you agree with is not going to change power but is going to match the new surge in jeweled drop sets.
allowing crafters to up-level a crafted piece at the same quality is a nod to match the every drop set drops at your level. You keep getting new drops usually at green and blue, so lets allow crafters to keep their crafted sets up-to-snuff level speaking without burning the more precious quality tokens.
Remove lower gear cap is a nod to how the nodes have changed to keep it easy to craft for developing characters - not that i think it has gotten much harder if the developingsa harvest casually but a small number are very vocal.
Writs req fewer items but specific traits/styles is a nod to the net cost of writs for equip at top level now being not as productive by spreading the writ expense across all the crafting expendables like the consumables do.

The one "power-uip" i mention is the change one 2-3-4 slot for an equivalent. The TOP DOG gear crafted now are that way because all their 2-3-4 and 5 already worth together well or well enough. The lessers dont generally because they are all mixed up. With all the new dropped sets there are now plenty of ways to get "all good bonuses" for whatever your need is in the drops. crafting right now seems to have a few sets you can build around... as opposed to a lot of builds you can find sets for.

Now, others have suggested adding lotsa new crafted sets (repurposing the tables that triplicate) and others have suggested a redesign for all the crafted sets - or just the sucky ones - but to me rather than go the same route as drops where there are a gazillion to choose go find a select one... i would rather see the ability to make small changes to the existing crafter templates to tailor each one to your preferred build or playstyle. Playing a DPS-like tank - turn one of the health max 2-3-4 into a spell damage or a max mag or a spell crit. Running a staff build where sustain isn't an issue, replace mag-rec slot with spell dmg or max mag. I will admit TBS would get a power-up from this... others with the sta-mag-hlth at 2-3-4 would too by allowing you to drop the least useful of those with a more useful replacement.

i doubt the slot change at crafting will go in. i expect we will get the same solution - more crafted sets added and some tweaks to some lessers.

But hey, again, its very subjective about whether or not and when crafted serves enough of a role etc... but for me, given a dozen or more skill points spent to max any craft, there should not be any question at all of whether or not crafting is integral and vital to the game play. It takes about as many skills to max a single craft as it does to max a weapon line. i dont have to blink before deciding "yeah i want to be using a weapon i am skilled with instead of just finding something" but I do have serious doubts about how much i will be using crafted vs drops going forward even with the large chunk of points spent (and will be looking hard at skills into crafting next time i have a respec.)

So... should I stop farming silk to make a 160 full gold Julianos set? I don't really like farming dropped Divines pieces, crafting is easier and faster since I just need the mats and I already have a master crafter toon.

Is Julianos really that far behind the new sets?

Rawst wrote: »

So... should I stop farming silk to make a 160 full gold Julianos set? I don't really like farming dropped Divines pieces, crafting is easier and faster since I just need the mats and I already have a master crafter toon.

Is Julianos really that far behind the new sets?

no not at all.

keep crafting julianos and all will be fine. Its one of the few sets absolutely worth crafting end game.

like you said its quick and easy once you have the mats and good news, the mats are all over now whetever content you run.

End game for the few crafted sets worth end-game consideration - definitely a way to go.

Only exception would be if you wanted an actual 2pc monster, 5pc, 5pc set working (not a swapperoo 5pc) then you would need to use one of the many drop-sets with jewelry.

but for developing characters below end-game, they do still exist, constantly finding green and blue drop-sets with pieces and weapons and jewelry... that is where crafting becomes a bit more "fill-in-the-blanks" now than core to the process. Anything you craft starts becoming obsolete as soon as you level and every new drop set levels to your current so...

But always, easy vs other and enjoy-more vs other are considerations.

For me i doubt i will craft anything for my stamsorc-18 and doubt i will craft anything after lvl-14 for my upcoming two characters now at abt 7 until they hit lvl-50+cap. its just easier to not craft and use the sets i find along the way.

After 1 get them to lvl-50+cap, then will be an issue of what we have in the bank from all the others running around delving and dolemning and questing.

Crafting in ESO is pretty lame in my opinion. You've got 1-3 crafted sets worth using ...

How many enchants are truly valuable?
How many recipes are truly valuable?
How many traits are truly valuable?
How many poisons are truly valuable?
Pots are the only thing I can think that has some variation, and even they are pretty much the same variants for everyone.

Researching traits is time consuming and can be expensive, because of nirn. It gives you no real benefit. It's convenience. It's much easy to max Provisioning and Alchemy and both passively make you better in combat. You can't even repair armor in dungeons with out buying repair kits or getting them from writs, and everyone can use then, regardless of crafting. Players should be able to make repair kits via crafting, and crafting should affect how much repair is done when using them.

Motifs are worthless to me. I sell them when I get them. If I can't change the appearance of dropped pieces I don't see a point. Crafters should be able change the appearance the armor/weapon to any style/motif they've learned, even if it requires the destruction of the old pcs, and all mats to remake it.

Crafting materials ... why so many? Lvl1-50 and cp10-140 mats are worthless. They only reason they exist is to make a gap for new players before they can craft new sets, and probably an attempt to sell subs for crafting bags. Changing all mats to be Cloth/Silk, Leather, and Ore wouldn't hurt the crafting system at all. It will just make it easier to manage and easier on new players.

I rather see procedural generated itemization, like Diablo and Boarderlands have. They can be subtle differences but unique each time you craft, or get a drop. This would allow players to constantly be tweaking their builds and farming for the next cool thing, rather then seeking BIS, never to return to content again. Well until max gear level increases.

The ridged itemization is boring and mostly unrewarding. Waiting for 5 pcs, in the proper trait, and in the proper slots is such delayed satisfaction it's sad. Unless the item is BOE and going to net me tens of thousands of gold rarely do i feel satisfied when I get a drop. It's like, "1 down, X to go." /sigh