Mobs are imposible to kill

DocFrost72 · October 2016

Waffennacht wrote: »

Tinus_92 wrote: »

When normal mobs hit harder then vet mobs, it's not a L2P issue.

Tonnopesce wrote: »

Tinus_92 wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

Maybe, just maybe you where doing the dungeons at low CP before one tamriel ( if you are 120, the dungeon was scaling at 120), now with one tamriel everything is at 160 CP and maybe this is the reason why a sub-optimal build like yours don't work anymore.

Maybe, just maybe you should read the previous replys first before commenting. Since when do you need 160CP to complete normal dungeons? I don't believe it's ESO's intention to ban anyone pre-160 out of the dungeons completely.

O ok so you are telling me that a bad build can carry you around anywhere... And that a 30% more damage done by the mobs is the excuse for someone to not be able to complete dungeons.
Today i have done fungal grotto 1 in Both vet/hm and normal with a 4 dd's group and except for one dead at the last boss everything went fine.
My dps is bad, i can push only 20-22k but i know how to do the dd, someone who goes in dungeons heavy + skoria and pretend to do the dps maybe have some problems with the mechanics, not only with his build.

Where did I tell you a bad build will carry you around? I even stated before that even if you're running a bad build there's no way a whole group should be one-shotted. It's not about running a good or bad build, it's about mobs in normal dungeons are hitting too hard compared to before, and even compared to vet mode.

Good for you that you've done all modes of fungal, congratulations. Still, a normal version of fungal shouldn't be as hard as the vet version of it.Next to that, if you're running 20-22k dps, I wouldn't consider that bad at all, it's above average definitely.

Sorry but 20k dps is below average to average at best. 30k is the new norm, while some can hit upwards of 50k.

To OP: get some 531 friends, that should help

Might wanna come down off that high horse to where the average is 10k ish. Not everyone has gold gear, CP, a proper rotation etc etc.

Now, if you said it is easy to get there with time, resources, and practice? I agree.

Kas · October 2016

Kalebron wrote: »

So, how are the dungeons for everyone else? Just curious...

i still solo the normal versions to farm weapons drops off the boss...
when a vet run with a grp of known players takes more than 10mins in non-DLC dungeons, it's a disaster and at least one guy will be very angry at someone else

thus, absolutely not too hard... not at all.

However, I have also noticed a HUGE difference when solo farming norm for weapons. It went from "autowalk and spam steeltornado" to "a little bit tougher than VMSA difficulty" - a HUGE increase in difficulty. Regarding the patch notes, I have a feeling this was not intended and OP is absolutely right to create this post. Especially trashgrps in norm shouldn't do anymore damage than they did before but they most certainly do.

PS: I only tested this farming nCoH1 (Will I ever get that defending lich resto?)

DocFrost72 · October 2016

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We're currently planning to have this fixed in the next incremental patch; just testing the fix for it now. Sorry about that!

Repost for visibility.

So, it was our L2P issue, huh?

kadar · October 2016

There's literally 2 comments in this entire thread that have any point at all. No wonder ZOS hasn't made a reply on this...
Here's 1 of 2 that actually matter:

UrQuan wrote: »

OK, so for the sake of experimenting and comparison, just now I went into Crypt of Hearts 2 on normal and on veteran and ran in to die to the first group of mobs on both.

I made sure that I had no gear equipped for either death so that it would be a fair comparison with no worrying about whether my gear was degraded on one or the other.

Here's what happened on veteran mode:

Here's the Combat Metrics report for it:

And now here's what happened on normal mode:

And here's the Combat Metrics report for it:

So I didn't die to the exact same things in both, but there were 2 attack types that were common between them. The Quick Shot attacks and the Shock attacks. Both types of attacks did roughly 31% additional damage on normal mode compared to on veteran mode.

The mobs do seem to have more health on veteran mode than on normal mode, though, with the Spiderkith Enervator (as the randomly selected sample mob) having 136,704 health in the veteran version of the dungeon, and 82,548 health in the normal version of the dungeon.

So it seems like the mobs have roughly 66% additional health in veteran compared to normal, but they do roughly 31% additional damage in normal compared to veteran. This makes very little sense to me.

Taranthula · October 2016

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Vyle_Byte wrote: »

Correct me if Im wrong here... but isnt a version II of any dungeon now vet? If you want normal it has to be set on Wayrest I not Wayrest II.

Not exactly:

Old nonvet story="I" version
Old vet story-"II"

But both versions have a normal and vet mode, which doesn't change story, just difficulty.

So for wayrest there is Wayrest I normal and vet mode, and Wayrest II normal and vet mode. And hardmode's for each final boss, too.

Thanks for clarifying it

was wondering what it meant.

Asardes · October 2016

Mobs on veteran are tanks, those in normal glass-cannon DDs

#ZoSlogic

Humatiel · October 2016

UrQuan wrote: »

OK, so for the sake of experimenting and comparison, just now I went into Crypt of Hearts 2 on normal and on veteran and ran in to die to the first group of mobs on both.

I made sure that I had no gear equipped for either death so that it would be a fair comparison with no worrying about whether my gear was degraded on one or the other.

Here's what happened on veteran mode:

Here's the Combat Metrics report for it:

And now here's what happened on normal mode:

And here's the Combat Metrics report for it:

So I didn't die to the exact same things in both, but there were 2 attack types that were common between them. The Quick Shot attacks and the Shock attacks. Both types of attacks did roughly 31% additional damage on normal mode compared to on veteran mode.

The mobs do seem to have more health on veteran mode than on normal mode, though, with the Spiderkith Enervator (as the randomly selected sample mob) having 136,704 health in the veteran version of the dungeon, and 82,548 health in the normal version of the dungeon.

So it seems like the mobs have roughly 66% additional health in veteran compared to normal, but they do roughly 31% additional damage in normal compared to veteran. This makes very little sense to me.

So what your saying is that normal mode hit the player (overall) for ~20% less and the "randomly selected sample mob" had ~40% less health. How exactly are either of these numbers a problem?

Humatiel · October 2016

double post because forums

Waffennacht · October 2016

Let's make it simple, the increased difficulty should not prohibit you from completing if your build is good enough, you're skilled enough, or have friends that are.

Even if its a bug, it's not making a difference to those that are experienced.

Aka, even if there is a bug you still need to improve

Kneighbors · October 2016

After another unsuccessful 10 tries to pass daily random I am giving up. I am glad that this update had happen it will give me alot of free time to do without the game. Enjoy guys, it's really nice now for those who like to *** 30 minutes for 10 gold and 150xp.

Loc2262 · October 2016

It's really shocking(ly sad) what kind of attitude some of the "high-end" players are exhibiting here.

If 30k DPS is the "new norm", as in a requirement for even the lowest tier group content, I suppose a rough estimate of 80% of the player base are not going to be able to do any of said group content anymore, including myself.

(Not saying that I can't complete the normal dungeons in their current state, but my DPS is far from 30. Maybe 20-22ish. Interestingly enough, that has not prevented me from breezing through any of the normal dungeon so far.)

Luckily it's already been confirmed that the insane damage increase was merely a bug.

Humatiel · October 2016

Loc2262 wrote: »

It's really shocking(ly sad) what kind of attitude some of the "high-end" players are exhibiting here.

If 30k DPS is the "new norm", as in a requirement for even the lowest tier group content, I suppose a rough estimate of 80% of the player base are not going to be able to do any of said group content anymore, including myself.

(Not saying that I can't complete the normal dungeons in their current state, but my DPS is far from 30. Maybe 20-22ish. Interestingly enough, that has not prevented me from breezing through any of the normal dungeon so far.)

Luckily it's already been confirmed that the insane damage increase was merely a bug.

I would say vet dungeons (X dungeon 2) requires around 12-15k dps per dps if they know mechanics well. What normally wipes a team in "2" is that the tank has a grand total of 15k resistance or the healbot isn't actually healing/providing resources. These dungeons are far from a dps check.

UrQuan · October 2016

Humatiel wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

OK, so for the sake of experimenting and comparison, just now I went into Crypt of Hearts 2 on normal and on veteran and ran in to die to the first group of mobs on both.

I made sure that I had no gear equipped for either death so that it would be a fair comparison with no worrying about whether my gear was degraded on one or the other.

Here's what happened on veteran mode:

Here's the Combat Metrics report for it:

And now here's what happened on normal mode:

And here's the Combat Metrics report for it:

So I didn't die to the exact same things in both, but there were 2 attack types that were common between them. The Quick Shot attacks and the Shock attacks. Both types of attacks did roughly 31% additional damage on normal mode compared to on veteran mode.

The mobs do seem to have more health on veteran mode than on normal mode, though, with the Spiderkith Enervator (as the randomly selected sample mob) having 136,704 health in the veteran version of the dungeon, and 82,548 health in the normal version of the dungeon.

So it seems like the mobs have roughly 66% additional health in veteran compared to normal, but they do roughly 31% additional damage in normal compared to veteran. This makes very little sense to me.

So what your saying is that normal mode hit the player (overall) for ~20% less and the "randomly selected sample mob" had ~40% less health. How exactly are either of these numbers a problem?

*facepalm*

No. That's not what I said at all, and it's not what the numbers show. On normal mode they hit for ~31% more than on vet mode.

Humatiel · October 2016

UrQuan wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

OK, so for the sake of experimenting and comparison, just now I went into Crypt of Hearts 2 on normal and on veteran and ran in to die to the first group of mobs on both.

I made sure that I had no gear equipped for either death so that it would be a fair comparison with no worrying about whether my gear was degraded on one or the other.

Here's what happened on veteran mode:

Here's the Combat Metrics report for it:

And now here's what happened on normal mode:

And here's the Combat Metrics report for it:

So I didn't die to the exact same things in both, but there were 2 attack types that were common between them. The Quick Shot attacks and the Shock attacks. Both types of attacks did roughly 31% additional damage on normal mode compared to on veteran mode.

The mobs do seem to have more health on veteran mode than on normal mode, though, with the Spiderkith Enervator (as the randomly selected sample mob) having 136,704 health in the veteran version of the dungeon, and 82,548 health in the normal version of the dungeon.

So it seems like the mobs have roughly 66% additional health in veteran compared to normal, but they do roughly 31% additional damage in normal compared to veteran. This makes very little sense to me.

So what your saying is that normal mode hit the player (overall) for ~20% less and the "randomly selected sample mob" had ~40% less health. How exactly are either of these numbers a problem?

*facepalm*

No. That's not what I said at all, and it's not what the numbers show. On normal mode they hit for ~31% more than on vet mode.

I may just be really off today but does your CM not show 17k inc dmg in vet and 14.2k inc dmg in normal?

Loc2262 · October 2016

@Humatiel: Yep, that has been my observation too when I started doing the Normal II dungeons with my group after 1T dropped.

We did a run of Spindle II the other day with a level 25 DPS who didn't know about the mechanic with the blue circle you have to stay in and follow at the second(?) boss. So he roll-dodged out of it, and actually survived. Not sure if that was due to me as a healer wearing Combat Physician, or if the damage of that circle is really reduced to a point where it's not one-shot anymore.

UrQuan · October 2016

Waffennacht wrote: »

Let's make it simple, the increased difficulty should not prohibit you from completing if you're build is good enough, you're skilled enough, or have friends that are.

Even if its a bug, it's not making a difference to those that are experienced.

Aka, even if there is a bug you still need to improve

Let's make it simple, normal mode isn't supposed to require you to have a great build, or be highly skilled, or have friends who are.

Normal mode is supposed to be harder than overworld content, but doable for players below level 50 with no CPs who haven't done group dungeons before. If it's not, then nobody ever learns to do group content, and as a result nobody gets good enough to ever do veteran ones.

AKA, that's how you end up with CP561 players who are totally clueless and incapable of doing group content, because they were never able to learn.

UrQuan · October 2016

Humatiel wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

OK, so for the sake of experimenting and comparison, just now I went into Crypt of Hearts 2 on normal and on veteran and ran in to die to the first group of mobs on both.

I made sure that I had no gear equipped for either death so that it would be a fair comparison with no worrying about whether my gear was degraded on one or the other.

Here's what happened on veteran mode:

Here's the Combat Metrics report for it:

And now here's what happened on normal mode:

And here's the Combat Metrics report for it:

So I didn't die to the exact same things in both, but there were 2 attack types that were common between them. The Quick Shot attacks and the Shock attacks. Both types of attacks did roughly 31% additional damage on normal mode compared to on veteran mode.

The mobs do seem to have more health on veteran mode than on normal mode, though, with the Spiderkith Enervator (as the randomly selected sample mob) having 136,704 health in the veteran version of the dungeon, and 82,548 health in the normal version of the dungeon.

So it seems like the mobs have roughly 66% additional health in veteran compared to normal, but they do roughly 31% additional damage in normal compared to veteran. This makes very little sense to me.

So what your saying is that normal mode hit the player (overall) for ~20% less and the "randomly selected sample mob" had ~40% less health. How exactly are either of these numbers a problem?

*facepalm*

No. That's not what I said at all, and it's not what the numbers show. On normal mode they hit for ~31% more than on vet mode.

I may just be really off today but does your CM not show 17k inc dmg in vet and 14.2k inc dmg in normal?

You can't compare total damage because I didn't get hit by the exact same things. You have to compare the damage for each individual attack. I thought I spelled that out pretty clearly: the attacks that were in common between the 2 were the Quick Shot attacks and the Shock attacks. Both of those did ~31% more damage on normal mode than on vet mode. The total incoming damage includes a big atronach attack on vet that I didn't get hit with on normal.

Humatiel · October 2016

UrQuan wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

OK, so for the sake of experimenting and comparison, just now I went into Crypt of Hearts 2 on normal and on veteran and ran in to die to the first group of mobs on both.

I made sure that I had no gear equipped for either death so that it would be a fair comparison with no worrying about whether my gear was degraded on one or the other.

Here's what happened on veteran mode:

Here's the Combat Metrics report for it:

And now here's what happened on normal mode:

And here's the Combat Metrics report for it:

So I didn't die to the exact same things in both, but there were 2 attack types that were common between them. The Quick Shot attacks and the Shock attacks. Both types of attacks did roughly 31% additional damage on normal mode compared to on veteran mode.

The mobs do seem to have more health on veteran mode than on normal mode, though, with the Spiderkith Enervator (as the randomly selected sample mob) having 136,704 health in the veteran version of the dungeon, and 82,548 health in the normal version of the dungeon.

So it seems like the mobs have roughly 66% additional health in veteran compared to normal, but they do roughly 31% additional damage in normal compared to veteran. This makes very little sense to me.

So what your saying is that normal mode hit the player (overall) for ~20% less and the "randomly selected sample mob" had ~40% less health. How exactly are either of these numbers a problem?

*facepalm*

No. That's not what I said at all, and it's not what the numbers show. On normal mode they hit for ~31% more than on vet mode.

I may just be really off today but does your CM not show 17k inc dmg in vet and 14.2k inc dmg in normal?

You can't compare total damage because I didn't get hit by the exact same things. You have to compare the damage for each individual attack. I thought I spelled that out pretty clearly: the attacks that were in common between the 2 were the Quick Shot attacks and the Shock attacks. Both of those did ~31% more damage on normal mode than on vet mode. The total incoming damage includes a big atronach attack on vet that I didn't get hit with on normal.

I see, this is where we are going to fundamentally disagree. Trying to cut this down into individual npc in a mob is like asking a dps what is single target damage is on the last mob we fought, just not a lot of sense behind it. for mobs its aoe dps outgoing and total damage incoming, unless of course we've all taken it upon ourselves to put taunts on our bar and go single target on each add of the mob??

UrQuan · October 2016

Humatiel wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

OK, so for the sake of experimenting and comparison, just now I went into Crypt of Hearts 2 on normal and on veteran and ran in to die to the first group of mobs on both.

I made sure that I had no gear equipped for either death so that it would be a fair comparison with no worrying about whether my gear was degraded on one or the other.

Here's what happened on veteran mode:

Here's the Combat Metrics report for it:

And now here's what happened on normal mode:

And here's the Combat Metrics report for it:

So I didn't die to the exact same things in both, but there were 2 attack types that were common between them. The Quick Shot attacks and the Shock attacks. Both types of attacks did roughly 31% additional damage on normal mode compared to on veteran mode.

The mobs do seem to have more health on veteran mode than on normal mode, though, with the Spiderkith Enervator (as the randomly selected sample mob) having 136,704 health in the veteran version of the dungeon, and 82,548 health in the normal version of the dungeon.

So it seems like the mobs have roughly 66% additional health in veteran compared to normal, but they do roughly 31% additional damage in normal compared to veteran. This makes very little sense to me.

So what your saying is that normal mode hit the player (overall) for ~20% less and the "randomly selected sample mob" had ~40% less health. How exactly are either of these numbers a problem?

*facepalm*

No. That's not what I said at all, and it's not what the numbers show. On normal mode they hit for ~31% more than on vet mode.

I may just be really off today but does your CM not show 17k inc dmg in vet and 14.2k inc dmg in normal?

You can't compare total damage because I didn't get hit by the exact same things. You have to compare the damage for each individual attack. I thought I spelled that out pretty clearly: the attacks that were in common between the 2 were the Quick Shot attacks and the Shock attacks. Both of those did ~31% more damage on normal mode than on vet mode. The total incoming damage includes a big atronach attack on vet that I didn't get hit with on normal.

I see, this is where we are going to fundamentally disagree. Trying to cut this down into individual npc in a mob is like asking a dps what is single target damage is on the last mob we fought, just not a lot of sense behind it. for mobs its aoe dps outgoing and total damage incoming, unless of course we've all taken it upon ourselves to put taunts on our bar and go single target on each add of the mob??

Literally the only way you can compare damage is by comparing the individual skills. Because that's how dungeons are scaled. Attack X on mob Y always does Z damage. When they re-scale the dungeons they apply a modifier to the damage. The only reason I got hit with an atronach attack on vet that I didn't get hit with on normal is because a spider attacked me on normal before the atro got a chance to. On vet the atro managed to attack me before the spider did.

If you fundamentally disagree with comparing the exact same skills from the exact same mobs, then you're simply wrong and you have no idea how the game works. There's frankly no other way to put it.

Loc2262 · October 2016

UrQuan wrote: »

Let's make it simple, normal mode isn't supposed to require you to have a great build, or be highly skilled, or have friends who are.

I totally agree. The other day (before 1T) there was a request in guild chat for help at the Fungal Grotto end boss, one player had dropped out of the group. So I (~300 CP at the time) went in and found two level 20-25 players (NOT leveling up alts!) standing at the end boss. I was very impressed, like, "you managed to get to the end boss at that level with three players?"

Since it was scaled to Level 20, I helped them nuke the Dreugh King with a few attacks from the bow. This clearly shows that the easier normal dungeons were, and continue to be, intended for newbies to learn the ropes of dungeoning. Not for CP. Certainly not for 531CP with gold gear and perfect rotation, pulling 30k DPS minimum (the "new average"!).

Taranthula · October 2016

Pointy end goes into other man.

Problem solved.

Now, gimme a cookie!

kadar · October 2016

@UrQuan

I'm so sorry. LOL.

/facepalm

Nifty2g · October 2016

it's weird people are currently duo farming normals but have trouble with veteran

Cryptical · October 2016

Vyle_Byte wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Not exactly:

Old nonvet story="I" version
Old vet story-"II"

But both versions have a normal and vet mode, which doesn't change story, just difficulty.

So for wayrest there is Wayrest I normal and vet mode, and Wayrest II normal and vet mode. And hardmode's for each final boss, too.

Ack. Thats confusing lmao! But ty.

Think we are going to try running one today that we ran yesterday, to test the damage difference.

Think of it like a movie.

There's the action movie City Of Ash: The Expulsion Of The Daedra - you can play that dvd on normal (difficulty) or vet (difficulty) or with the scroll of glorious battle (difficulty) for 2 keys.

Then there's the sequel movie City Of Ash 2: The Rescue Mission - you can play that dvd on normal (difficulty) or vet (difficulty) or with the scroll of glorious battle (difficulty) for 2 keys.

You play the story, not the map. It's always been like this, where Zeni provides a story to play. Over time people have misunderstood, and thought the 'game' was the map and got upset when they grinded right past the story and the 'game' wasn't like they expected. With this change, where the pledge is to play a story plot and levels are almost nonexistent, it is more obvious that the game is the storylines... Not gaining levels or gear or gold.

UrQuan · October 2016

The_Outsider wrote: »

@UrQuan

I'm so sorry. LOL.
/facepalm

I know right?

Sleep · October 2016

in my opinion normal dungeons are much harder than before sometimes it can even be too hard for a random group

Tinus_92 · October 2016

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Tinus_92 wrote: »

When normal mobs hit harder then vet mobs, it's not a L2P issue.

Tonnopesce wrote: »

Tinus_92 wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

Maybe, just maybe you where doing the dungeons at low CP before one tamriel ( if you are 120, the dungeon was scaling at 120), now with one tamriel everything is at 160 CP and maybe this is the reason why a sub-optimal build like yours don't work anymore.

Maybe, just maybe you should read the previous replys first before commenting. Since when do you need 160CP to complete normal dungeons? I don't believe it's ESO's intention to ban anyone pre-160 out of the dungeons completely.

O ok so you are telling me that a bad build can carry you around anywhere... And that a 30% more damage done by the mobs is the excuse for someone to not be able to complete dungeons.
Today i have done fungal grotto 1 in Both vet/hm and normal with a 4 dd's group and except for one dead at the last boss everything went fine.
My dps is bad, i can push only 20-22k but i know how to do the dd, someone who goes in dungeons heavy + skoria and pretend to do the dps maybe have some problems with the mechanics, not only with his build.

Where did I tell you a bad build will carry you around? I even stated before that even if you're running a bad build there's no way a whole group should be one-shotted. It's not about running a good or bad build, it's about mobs in normal dungeons are hitting too hard compared to before, and even compared to vet mode.

Good for you that you've done all modes of fungal, congratulations. Still, a normal version of fungal shouldn't be as hard as the vet version of it.Next to that, if you're running 20-22k dps, I wouldn't consider that bad at all, it's above average definitely.

Sorry but 20k dps is below average to average at best. 30k is the new norm, while some can hit upwards of 50k.

To OP: get some 531 friends, that should help

Might wanna come down off that high horse to where the average is 10k ish. Not everyone has gold gear, CP, a proper rotation etc etc.

Now, if you said it is easy to get there with time, resources, and practice? I agree.

This. 30k is the norm for the hardest vet content. Not for a default dungeon intented for non-maxed players.

gel214thb14_ESO · October 2016

UrQuan wrote: »

OK, so for the sake of experimenting and comparison, just now I went into Crypt of Hearts 2 on normal and on veteran and ran in to die to the first group of mobs on both.

I made sure that I had no gear equipped for either death so that it would be a fair comparison with no worrying about whether my gear was degraded on one or the other.

And here's the Combat Metrics report for it:

What is Combat MEtrics? How do you get this?

Update: GOogled it, it's a free add-on that you can get from esoui. Looks impressive!

Dracane · October 2016

Mobs are too easy in my opinion.

W0lf_z13 · October 2016

gel214thb14_ESO wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

OK, so for the sake of experimenting and comparison, just now I went into Crypt of Hearts 2 on normal and on veteran and ran in to die to the first group of mobs on both.

I made sure that I had no gear equipped for either death so that it would be a fair comparison with no worrying about whether my gear was degraded on one or the other.

And here's the Combat Metrics report for it:

What is Combat MEtrics? How do you get this?

its an add on the measures ur dps ... u can download it by searching for combat metrics addon eso in google