ZOS ignores feedback they specifically asked for... (Monster Sets)

Oreyn_Bearclaw · October 2016

Why are monster sets still dropping in Training and Prosperous?

Patch Notes: "Added the Impenetrable trait to the list of traits that can drop for Monster Masks and their Shoulders. This means that Monster Masks and Shoulders can now drop in all traits with the exception of Nirnhoned."

There was as specific forum post CREATED BY THE DEVS that essentially asked the question: Hey guys, if we got rid of these two worthless traits to make room for impen, would you guys be cool with that? The overwhelming response was: Duh, why haven you done this already.

Where you guys just trolling us? Why do you continue to dilute an already bloated loot table and ignore the people paying your salaries. You have a 1/288 (12 Shoulders per chest, 3 weights, 8 traits) chance of getting the specific shoulder you are after, and like every other pile of RNG garbage in this game, some of us will never get what we want.

To further compound the idiocy and complete incompetency by the devs, any PVPer just needs to wait for their shoulder to show up in the vendor and buy the perfect BIS shoulder for their build in impenetrable (it doesnt need to be in the loot table). PvE players have no such option. There is no way to purchase a BIS PVE shoulder as it currently stands. If anybody talks about infused shoulder pieces, I will lose my mind. Its a mediocre trait at best on big pieces (helms) and totally F'ing useless on small pieces (shoulders).

And of course (slightly different rant), they did nothing to address the pitiful excuse for RNG in the last VMA chest. Admittedly, I did not expect them to do anything on that topic.

(Accidentally posted in combat and character mechanics so I reposted.)

Mashille · October 2016

I thought they were getting removed this update?

If not then... Damn.

Conquistador · October 2016

lol...lol. zos.

DRXHarbinger · October 2016

They asked for suggestions....ignored it. Just removed the two from trials and dungeons iirc and that was it...enjoy your guaranteed prosperous illambris shoulders.

Sallington · October 2016

I'll save my keys til they're removed.

rootimus · October 2016

Zenimax ignores feedback. In other breaking news, water is wet.

DRXHarbinger · October 2016

Sallington wrote: »

I'll save my keys til they're removed.

You've got a long long wait. Took 6 months for this change.

jeremiah911 · October 2016

The odds of getting the shoulder piece you want are just crushing. I had 30 keys saved up and I feel so defeated right now that I don't even want to play knowing I have a 1/288 chance at getting what I want. Straight depressed.

Soleya · October 2016

Before you only had a chance to get a helm, now it's 100%.

So think of it this way. If you ran a dungeon 5 times you'd get 1 prosperous helm. Now you'll have 5 prosperous ones to deconstruct.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · October 2016

rootimus wrote: »

Zenimax ignores feedback. In other breaking news, water is wet.

It's one thing to ignore unsolicited feedback. It's totally different to specifically ask your customer base about a narrow issue, get a crystal clear response, and then say, "Nevermind, F you guys, we are going to do the opposite."

ZOS, I am trying to be positive about this game, but you are simply making it impossible.

rootimus · October 2016

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

rootimus wrote: »

Zenimax ignores feedback. In other breaking news, water is wet.

It's one thing to ignore unsolicited feedback. It's totally different to specifically ask your customer base about a narrow issue, get a crystal clear response, and then say, "Nevermind, F you guys, we are going to do the opposite."

ZOS, I am trying to be positive about this game, but you are simply making it impossible.

I'm with you. Sadly, ignoring solicited feedback is nothing new for Zenimax.

Mx13 · October 2016

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Why are monster sets still dropping in Training and Prosperous?
There was as specific forum post CREATED BY THE DEVS that essentially asked the question: Hey guys, if we got rid of these two worthless traits to make room for impen, would you guys be cool with that? The overwhelming response was: Duh, why haven you done this already.

If you are refering to this thread then they were asking feedback about adding impen to PvE loot not about removing prosperous/training.
So technically they didnt ignore the feedback they were asking for :P

btw yes, they should remove both from end game gear.

Thelon · October 2016

rootimus wrote: »

Zenimax ignores feedback.

Daemons_Bane · October 2016

I like how people think that asking for feedback = doing what the players suggest, just like that

leepalmer95 · October 2016

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

I like how people think that asking for feedback = doing what the players suggest, just like that

Thats pretty much what feedback is, they wouldn't ask people opinions and though'ts if they didn't plan on listening to it...?

But OP few others things

Poisons were 30% on pts, everyone said they were too strong, zos doubled them.
Zos make a thread about AOE caps, 80% didn't want them, zos added them anyway.
They randomly added the gap closer snare without putting it in the pts, people wanted it removed, zos ignored it...

Etc.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · October 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

I like how people think that asking for feedback = doing what the players suggest, just like that

Thats pretty much what feedback is, they wouldn't ask people opinions and though'ts if they didn't plan on listening to it...?

But OP few others things

Poisons were 30% on pts, everyone said they were too strong, zos doubled them.
Zos make a thread about AOE caps, 80% didn't want them, zos added them anyway.
They randomly added the gap closer snare without putting it in the pts, people wanted it removed, zos ignored it...

Etc.

I know they have a history of ignoring feedback. Personally I think there is a huge difference between comparing big picture balance concepts like AOE caps or damage values, vs . Itemization on traits.

The first is something the developers are tasked with, and they will never please everyone. The later does nothing to bring balance, it just infuriates players getting the crap end of the RNG stick. They are not the same thing.

Izaki · October 2016

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

They asked for suggestions....ignored it. Just removed the two from trials and dungeons iirc and that was it...enjoy your guaranteed prosperous illambris shoulders.

Oh man... At least the Helm will be a guaranteed drop on HM Crypt of Heart 1. A few hours of farming and we'll have our BiS helm. The shoulder is a whole other story... Savin up those damn keys man.

G0ku · October 2016

24 keys turned in, 16 lord warden, 6 mighty chudan, 1 kena, 1 velidreth none of the last in an armor type or trait I needed. I´m done with monster sets

Oreyn_Bearclaw · October 2016

Helm I am not worried about in the slightest.

Just add one more RNG chest to my life, thanks ZOS. Now I get to enjoy crappy traits on my VMA weapons and my shoulders. (yes I realize shoulders have always been RNG).

Sorry everyone. Just about at my breaking point with the loot system. Trying to remain a loyal fanboy, I swear.

Panda_iMunch · October 2016

"Even if there is a 1% someone may find use for it, we must take it as an absolute necessity!" is their basic mantra, just wished it didn't come at the expense of the other 99% that doesn't want to grind it.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · October 2016

I am in complete and total disbelief. Got a light Divines Llambris shoulder (exactly what I was after) on my first key. I still think the system stinks, but wow....

Not quite sure how to spend the rest I have been saving.

KingMagaw · October 2016

Spent 72 keys on my main character, locked 5 shoulders.

The amount of prosperous/reinforced and training dropped was way more than any usable trait. Some can say, bad RNG, but i think the RNG has been fixed in favour of these *** traits to try and keep people mindlessly farming for an item they need.

72 keys and 5 shoulders saved is a disgrace. Seriously put me off doing pledges if its going to be a waste of my time.

Akwila · October 2016

I just blew 74 keys.

Got 1 Divines Med Selenes. I main heals and spell dps.

I could count on one hand the number of Infused and Divines I got, combined. The rest were impen, prosperous, training, or reinforced. The RNG is unfucking real.

I don't even want to play anymore.

Akwila · October 2016

KingMagaw wrote: »

Spent 72 keys on my main character, locked 5 shoulders.

The amount of prosperous/reinforced and training dropped was way more than any usable trait. Some can say, bad RNG, but i think the RNG has been fixed in favour of these *** traits to try and keep people mindlessly farming for an item they need.

72 keys and 5 shoulders saved is a disgrace. Seriously put me off doing pledges if its going to be a waste of my time.

I took note of the 41 keys my main had and got 9 infernal guardian (one with infused or divines) and less than 4 for shoulders of every other set, only 1 having infused or divines.

1 out 41 was desireable and even then, it was infernal guardian which is mostly garbage anyway.

Sigtric · October 2016

They implemented some of the feedback (inpen) but yet somehow that is ignoring?

Draxys · October 2016

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

I like how people think that asking for feedback = doing what the players suggest, just like that

So they're just going to ask for feedback for fun?

KingMagaw · October 2016

Is there anyone who is advocating Prosperous or training on end game gear?

From what i have read, to date, is players asking for these junk traits to be removed. ~72 keys is ~36 days of doing both undaunted pledges.

Instead of improving the daily undaunted dynamic they have greatly reduced any interest i have of playing them as i wont waste my time mindlessly farming the same content not to be rewarded.

Sigtric · October 2016

Draxys wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

I like how people think that asking for feedback = doing what the players suggest, just like that

So they're just going to ask for feedback for fun?

They obviously want to know. But wanting to know doesn't necessarily mean there will be a change, and if there IS going to be a change it doesn't mean anything is going to get done at a specific time, until they say it is going to happen.

They've all heard the feedback that Prosperous shouldn't be in this loot table. Just because the change didn't happen today doesn't mean it's not going to get addressed.

eserras7b16_ESO · October 2016

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Why are monster sets still dropping in Training and Prosperous?

Patch Notes: "Added the Impenetrable trait to the list of traits that can drop for Monster Masks and their Shoulders. This means that Monster Masks and Shoulders can now drop in all traits with the exception of Nirnhoned."

There was as specific forum post CREATED BY THE DEVS that essentially asked the question: Hey guys, if we got rid of these two worthless traits to make room for impen, would you guys be cool with that? The overwhelming response was: Duh, why haven you done this already.

Where you guys just trolling us? Why do you continue to dilute an already bloated loot table and ignore the people paying your salaries. You have a 1/288 (12 Shoulders per chest, 3 weights, 8 traits) chance of getting the specific shoulder you are after, and like every other pile of RNG garbage in this game, some of us will never get what we want.

To further compound the idiocy and complete incompetency by the devs, any PVPer just needs to wait for their shoulder to show up in the vendor and buy the perfect BIS shoulder for their build in impenetrable (it doesnt need to be in the loot table). PvE players have no such option. There is no way to purchase a BIS PVE shoulder as it currently stands. If anybody talks about infused shoulder pieces, I will lose my mind. Its a mediocre trait at best on big pieces (helms) and totally F'ing useless on small pieces (shoulders).

And of course (slightly different rant), they did nothing to address the pitiful excuse for RNG in the last VMA chest. Admittedly, I did not expect them to do anything on that topic.

(Accidentally posted in combat and character mechanics so I reposted.)

Smart post. ZoS you should get rid of those traits. Those should only be crafted Traits. And I am talking about Prosperous and Training.

kevlarto_ESO · October 2016

I give up not worth the effort just to get training or prosperous, will wait and see if they remove these from 160 gear.

code65536 · October 2016

Ah, but do you remember the good old days when a gold key only had a 50% chance at getting a shoulder and a silver key only had a 10% chance?

Back before Dark Brotherhood, a character doing both the normal and vet pledges each day would get, on average, 3 shoulders every 5 days.

Now, a character doing one normal-difficulty pledge and one veteran-difficulty pledge will get 3 keys, each with a 100% chance at a shoulder, for 15 shoulders every 5 days, for a five-fold increase. They could, optionally, get twice that many if they opt for three pledges all at veteran difficulty.

For someone who puts in enough time to do one normal-scaled and one vet-scaled pledge per day (and assuming that they skip half the DLC pledges, for the simplicity of the math and to also account for the greater amount of time needed for the DLC pledges), this is the reward rate that they had at various points in the game's history:

Update 5: 0.6 shoulders/day, 8 sets/chest, 6 traits; on average, once every 240 days (the trait table originally had Infused, Divines, Impenetrable, Reinforced, Well-Fitted, and Sturdy--yes, they had Sturdy in the loot table back when Sturdy just reduced armor degradation; I daresay that's even worse than Training and Prosperous)
Update 7: 0.6 shoulders/day, 10 sets/chest, 5 traits; on average, once every 250 days (Sturdy was removed from the loot table)
Update 10: 1.5 shoulders/day, 10 sets/chest, 7 traits; on average, once every 140 days (Sturdy, Prosperous, and Training were added, Impenetrable was removed, Gold rate now 100% and Silver rate now 50%)
Update 11: 1.5 shoulders/day, 12 sets/chest, 7 traits; on average, once every 168 days
Update 12: 3 shoulders/day, 12 sets/chest, 8 traits; on average, once every 96 days (Impenetrable restored)

Again, these figures are calibrated for 1 normal-difficulty and 1 veteran-difficulty pledge per day (to keep the time investment consistent for comparison purposes), but players now have the option to get up to 6 shoulders/day/character.

To be clear, I don't think Prosperous and Training are useful for endgame content (esp. Prosperous), but when it comes to the question of grindiness, for Monster sets, the vastly amped-up drop rate has more than compensated for the small amount of trait dilution that they've added.

This cannot be said for vMA weapons, though, where the botched trait rebalance meant that we went from 2 out of 3 viable traits to just 1 out of 8. But for monster sets, ZOS has been very generous.