ZOS ignores feedback they specifically asked for... (Monster Sets)

kadar

Transairion wrote: »

ZOS never ignored feedback, they just didn't cater to the whining people:

We have an update for you. We will be making the following changes to Trait attainability with the launch of Update 12:

Prosperous and Training will be removed as a valid Trait for all items that drop in Trials
Valid Traits for Trials and Leaderboard rewards are as follows:
Weapons – Infused, Powered, Precise, Defending, Sharpened, Charged, Decisive
Armor – Infused, Divines, Well-Fitted, Reinforced, Sturdy
Items drops in the overland and in dungeons will have a chance of dropping with all available Traits, including Impenetrable

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts with us on this subject. We appreciate how constructive this discussion has been, and the ideas shared.

They did exactly what they promised to do, nothing more nothing less.

If you incorrectly assumed traits you didn't like were being removed, that's your own fault.

130 keys,about 87% training and prosperous.

I'd love to see screenshots of this, and other completely hyperbolic claims of "I got 90% droprate from my keys!!".

RNG is bad, but not that bad.

....They did ignore feedback. They asked what we thought of those traits in endgame loot tables. We told them. A severe majority of the player base called for the removal of those useless traits from endgame loot tables. Yet, they remained.

That is the very definition of ignoring feedback, especially feedback that is so unanimous in nature.

You've been preaching the manta that some players like training (and prosperous?). I'm sure that this is true. This is exactly why crafted gear exists. The 0.1% of the player base that desires those traits can gold out a full 7 piece set, and the rest of us can get useful traits on our endgame gear. People hate ZOS less. Win-win-win.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

They could just introduce a trait change mechanism and it would all be moot. Haha

I would pay 250k gold or 500k AP to a vendor that would change the trait on an item. Problem solved.

Wreuntzylla

Cashed in two keys yesterday. One divines and one reinforced, both for new sets I want to try.

If ZoS is trying to hit a particular grind metric, I would suggest adding two traits that people actually use to the game and swap them for training and prosperous in the loot table, Then move prosperous and training to a separate gold key chest. In fact, if they had a mathematician or perhaps @Asayre (who may be a mathematician), they would have a better grasp on why people only use 1 or 2 traits in this game and make a fix. I only use impenetrable and divines.

I have multiple accounts and don't mind training when I am at low CP. In fact, if it were purchasable on the guild traders I would buy it! Training speeds the process quite a bit.

Transairion

....They did ignore feedback. They asked what we thought of those traits in endgame loot tables. We told them. A severe majority of the player base called for the removal of those useless traits from endgame loot tables. Yet, they remained.

That is the very definition of ignoring feedback, especially feedback that is so unanimous in nature.

Even being very generous with the assumptions, MMO forums make up 1% of the actual playerbase so even a "majority" of a forum (200-300 seems a little low to be a majority of anything other than who voted) means very little. Yes the forum crowd has the most wailing and gnashing of teeth, but if the game was balanced by what the forum wanted it'd be a train wreck.

Most players simply don't care and are in game, they get that drop and move on.

You've been preaching the manta that some players like training (and prosperous?). I'm sure that this is true. This is exactly why crafted gear exists. The 0.1% of the player base that desires those traits can gold out a full 7 piece set, and the rest of us can get useful traits on our endgame gear. People hate ZOS less. Win-win-win.

Lots of players don't like lots of traits. Divines/Infused is essentially the ONLY traits used by DPS or Heals, with almost half the traits being tank-only traits (Nirn/Reinforced/Sturdy). Don't try and argue that getting a Reinforced Kena helm is somehow an amazing buff compared to Training, since having a single out-of-place trait makes the benefit it provides next to nothing. Is it an in-combat benefit, sure, that 1% cheaper roll dodge is super helpful in PvE on my Magicka toons. The fact is most of the traits are terrible compared to Divines/Infused.

There's also only like 20-30 crafted gears sets VS hundreds of dropped sets, so making them crafted only helps one side: especially since I can count the useful crafted gear on one hand and most is just completely ignored. You also can't research stuff if it, you know, doesn't drop anywhere.

Ghost-Shot

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

phreatophile wrote: »

Flak wrote: »

The so-called "smart-drops" are also working rly well... got two Bows of Twilight Remedy (Healerset) yesterday in vMoL.
Good job

Had trouble giving away a Battleaxe of the Warlock and Bow of the Combat physician.

Nobody wanted my Bow of the Lich either...

WTS bow of martial knowledge, 1 mil gold, pst

Mx13

The_Outsider wrote: »

Transairion wrote: »

ZOS never ignored feedback, they just didn't cater to the whining people:

We have an update for you. We will be making the following changes to Trait attainability with the launch of Update 12:

Prosperous and Training will be removed as a valid Trait for all items that drop in Trials
Valid Traits for Trials and Leaderboard rewards are as follows:
Weapons – Infused, Powered, Precise, Defending, Sharpened, Charged, Decisive
Armor – Infused, Divines, Well-Fitted, Reinforced, Sturdy
Items drops in the overland and in dungeons will have a chance of dropping with all available Traits, including Impenetrable

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts with us on this subject. We appreciate how constructive this discussion has been, and the ideas shared.

They did exactly what they promised to do, nothing more nothing less.

If you incorrectly assumed traits you didn't like were being removed, that's your own fault.

130 keys,about 87% training and prosperous.

I'd love to see screenshots of this, and other completely hyperbolic claims of "I got 90% droprate from my keys!!".

RNG is bad, but not that bad.

....They did ignore feedback. They asked what we thought of those traits in endgame loot tables. We told them. A severe majority of the player base called for the removal of those useless traits from endgame loot tables. Yet, they remained.

That is the very definition of ignoring feedback, especially feedback that is so unanimous in nature.

You've been preaching the manta that some players like training (and prosperous?). I'm sure that this is true. This is exactly why crafted gear exists. The 0.1% of the player base that desires those traits can gold out a full 7 piece set, and the rest of us can get useful traits on our endgame gear. People hate ZOS less. Win-win-win.

They never asked that tho or at least cant find the thread where they did.

Transairion

They never asked that tho or at least cant find the thread where they did.

Here is the topic and here is exactly what they (ZOS) said:

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

There has been a longstanding request from some of our players to consider adding the Impenetrable Trait to item sets that drop from end-game PVE content. We’ve read arguments for and against making this change, and have discussed options among the team here. We’d like to share with you what we’re currently considering.

• Add Impenetrable as a valid Trait for all item sets in the game, regardless of where they drop
• Add Impenetrable as a valid Trait for all item sets in the game, except those that drop in Trials
• Remove Prosperous and Training as valid Traits from Trial item sets

Thoughts?

There was never any discussion by ZOS nor implications they were going to remove Training/Prosperous from anywhere but Trials. Lots of forum-goers begged/demanded/raged that they SHOULD remove those traits from everywhere, but that was it. All ZOS wanted to know was: "Should we add Impen to X and Y, or just X?" "Should we remove these two traits from Trials?".

The idea that these traits were being removed anywhere else was entirely fabricated.

kadar

Transairion wrote: »

....They did ignore feedback. They asked what we thought of those traits in endgame loot tables. We told them. A severe majority of the player base called for the removal of those useless traits from endgame loot tables. Yet, they remained.

That is the very definition of ignoring feedback, especially feedback that is so unanimous in nature.

Even being very generous with the assumptions, MMO forums make up 1% of the actual playerbase so even a "majority" of a forum (200-300 seems a little low to be a majority of anything other than who voted) means very little. Yes the forum crowd has the most wailing and gnashing of teeth, but if the game was balanced by what the forum wanted it'd be a train wreck.

Most players simply don't care and are in game, they get that drop and move on.

You've been preaching the manta that some players like training (and prosperous?). I'm sure that this is true. This is exactly why crafted gear exists. The 0.1% of the player base that desires those traits can gold out a full 7 piece set, and the rest of us can get useful traits on our endgame gear. People hate ZOS less. Win-win-win.

Lots of players don't like lots of traits. Divines/Infused is essentially the ONLY traits used by DPS or Heals, with almost half the traits being tank-only traits (Nirn/Reinforced/Sturdy). Don't try and argue that getting a Reinforced Kena helm is somehow an amazing buff compared to Training, since having a single out-of-place trait makes the benefit it provides next to nothing. Is it an in-combat benefit, sure, that 1% cheaper roll dodge is super helpful in PvE on my Magicka toons. The fact is most of the traits are terrible compared to Divines/Infused.

There's also only like 20-30 crafted gears sets VS hundreds of dropped sets, so making them crafted only helps one side: especially since I can count the useful crafted gear on one hand and most is just completely ignored. You also can't research stuff if it, you know, doesn't drop anywhere.

Except that ZOS chose ask the forums. So the fact that those here don't represent the entire player base is moot. They asked the forums. The forums obliged with feedback. Again, those traits remained. And again, the very definition of ignoring solicited feedback.

Well-fitted, Reinforced, Sturdy, and Nirn have value and a place in end-game builds. Like you yourself pointed out, Stamina builds and tanks greatly desire these traits on certain pieces. This is simply a fact. And that is the difference between those traits and prosperous/training.

20-30 crafted gears vs hundreds of dropped sets... that would accurately compare to the number of ppl desiring training/prosperous vs. the number desiring other traits.

kadar

Mx13 wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Transairion wrote: »

ZOS never ignored feedback, they just didn't cater to the whining people:

We have an update for you. We will be making the following changes to Trait attainability with the launch of Update 12:

Prosperous and Training will be removed as a valid Trait for all items that drop in Trials
Valid Traits for Trials and Leaderboard rewards are as follows:
Weapons – Infused, Powered, Precise, Defending, Sharpened, Charged, Decisive
Armor – Infused, Divines, Well-Fitted, Reinforced, Sturdy
Items drops in the overland and in dungeons will have a chance of dropping with all available Traits, including Impenetrable

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts with us on this subject. We appreciate how constructive this discussion has been, and the ideas shared.

They did exactly what they promised to do, nothing more nothing less.

If you incorrectly assumed traits you didn't like were being removed, that's your own fault.

130 keys,about 87% training and prosperous.

I'd love to see screenshots of this, and other completely hyperbolic claims of "I got 90% droprate from my keys!!".

RNG is bad, but not that bad.

....They did ignore feedback. They asked what we thought of those traits in endgame loot tables. We told them. A severe majority of the player base called for the removal of those useless traits from endgame loot tables. Yet, they remained.

That is the very definition of ignoring feedback, especially feedback that is so unanimous in nature.

You've been preaching the manta that some players like training (and prosperous?). I'm sure that this is true. This is exactly why crafted gear exists. The 0.1% of the player base that desires those traits can gold out a full 7 piece set, and the rest of us can get useful traits on our endgame gear. People hate ZOS less. Win-win-win.

They never asked that tho or at least cant find the thread where they did.

It's from the same thread that was quoted from in an above comment, the quoted part being the results of the Official feedback thread that ZOS started.

Wycks

ZOS needs to wake up and realize tokens = happy players

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Transairion wrote: »

They never asked that tho or at least cant find the thread where they did.

Here is the topic and here is exactly what they (ZOS) said:

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

There has been a longstanding request from some of our players to consider adding the Impenetrable Trait to item sets that drop from end-game PVE content. We’ve read arguments for and against making this change, and have discussed options among the team here. We’d like to share with you what we’re currently considering.

• Add Impenetrable as a valid Trait for all item sets in the game, regardless of where they drop
• Add Impenetrable as a valid Trait for all item sets in the game, except those that drop in Trials
• Remove Prosperous and Training as valid Traits from Trial item sets

Thoughts?

There was never any discussion by ZOS nor implications they were going to remove Training/Prosperous from anywhere but Trials. Lots of forum-goers begged/demanded/raged that they SHOULD remove those traits from everywhere, but that was it. All ZOS wanted to know was: "Should we add Impen to X and Y, or just X?" "Should we remove these two traits from Trials?".

The idea that these traits were being removed anywhere else was entirely fabricated.

That is a narrow view of that thread. If you read the 17 odd pages of the thread, the overwhelming support was that we needed to take the notion further to include all endgame gear. That was basically what the first half a dozen comments said, and then it was followed by:

"We'll be reading all the comments in this thread. We didn't create a poll because we'd like to encourage feedback and discussion about this topic."

They wanted feedback and discussion, they got it, they ignored it. The community has never been so united on a single issue, but you are clearly in the minority, which is perfectly fine. Have good a day.

Infinite12

Anyone else find it hilarious to see a ZOS employee steering people to a thread titled "ZOS ignores feedback..." lol. I found that to be quite humerous

ku5h

They just want to bury the issue and go on job as usual.

nordsavage

It was a pretty low move to put training and prosperous on end game gear since nobody will use those at max level. If anyone does or argues that you do they are a fool. Especially since exploration and training were not on items like these Undaunted sets before the trait changes. As for vMA a token system would be great but I would settle for an actual equal chance on all weapons for all available traits. Because items such junk resto staffs clearly have the largest margin even from leaderboards.

bluedevilblue

Yes, I found it funny, but I give them credit for it.

I don't know if it was in this thread or elsewhere, but I agree with the poster who said they'd rather get no shoulder set than training/prosperous. I might use a crappy trait on one piece in a 5 piece set, but I'm not using one in a 2 piece set (or judging by the drop rates I'm getting, more like 2 of 2). Getting the piece you want and then deconning it is worse than never getting it at all. It's like - here's a wound, there's some salt.

I have probably more than 30 keys saved up. I opened 6 last night, 5 of the 6 were training and prosperous. It took all of the fun out of it. I haven't used the other keys and don't know when or if I will because I already know it's not going to be fun and fun is why I play. And honestly, I see no reason to run pledges if this is what I'm going to get from them. I'll just run 2 five piece sets. So for me, the RNG is set at a level that it isn't encouraging me to run more dungeons, it's made me not want to because the "reward" more often than not is not only worthless but makes me feel like the game is mocking me.

I think prosporous and training have no place in CP 160 sets, but if they are going to be there, they should be a lot rarer than they currently are (I do not believe they are evenly distributed with other traits). I don't mind getting traits that aren't really useful for my build, but I hate getting traits that aren't useful for any build.*

* I get wanting to grind CP with training, but who needs a monster helm set to grind CP? And who would run a trial or something serious with all training traits? I guess there are folks who may, but wow that's giving up a lot of what could be contributed to the group just to get some more CP.

CombatPrayer

35 keys, 3 divines, 9 prosperous, 5 sturdy, 4 well fitted, 7 training, 7 impenetrable

Epic fail.

I don't even care if prosperous and training are in the pool, but for the love of all that is sane, make the odds balanced. a true 1 in 8 chance for everything. None of this sticking it to people with a very clearly higher chance of getting *** traits because I grinded through deshaan, through dungeons, through keys and other gaming yesterday and all I kept seeing was training and prosperous. So you change things in the update so now we get oodles of drops but 85% of them are crappy traits that are only truly useful to lower level toons. Ugh. Some nice new sets, but way to go in ruining them. I'll run around naked before wearing training and prosperous on my cp level toons. Thank god I'm a crafter who has enough traits researched to not rely on your terrible RNG system that consistently sticks it to the player.

Good riddance to you.

ku5h

Check this vid up:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=kQUJVik9z5g

Bottom line is, casual player will spend 3 years to get optimal shoulder peace he wants.

Dreyloch

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

I like how people think that asking for feedback = doing what the players suggest, just like that

LOL, in pretty much any business (for those that want to stay in it) It's called "The Customer is always right". Regardless if they are or not. If you want to keep them happy, you try to find ways to make that happen. Seems ZoS is lost on this concept, and will lose business because of it.

Dreyloch

Here's a solution ZoS,

Leave the tables the way they are (because lord knows it'll take 6+ months to change it) and just add in a vendor that will take an X amount of the same exact item Ex: Light Prosperous Velidreth shoulders- Blue, and let us exchange them for the same exact item but in the trait we want. I would say 4 of these unwanted shoulders=1 with the trait we're looking for. I think that's a fair and reasonable trade, and it means less work for the Devs to accomplish.

Seriously. There is no reason prosperous and training needing to be on any loot table. None. Nada, Zlich. The only tin foil hat theory that I can come up with is your trying to keep us busy chasing these new sets. But how long until you realize your wasting our time? Time is the one thing in this universe that can not be replenished, replaced ,reversed, or returned. So go ahead and keep wasting your players' time. See how much longer you'll stay in business.

magnusthorek

Well, the only time ZOS shows up is to lock thread so, just to keep pushing to, maybe, someday, in the far, far future we get something, I'll just link this one I made that, obviously, has been locked

> https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3421798

jeremiah911

My main interests in this game are running dungeons and crafting. I love 2 piece monster sets. I know my dungeon grind pales in comparison to others but I used over 30 keys last night and didn't get one piece I was hoping for. The best I got was Skoria Infused, which I already have.

I have no issue running content and putting in time to get an EARNED reward. However, after 30 plus keys saved over the last 3 weeks or so, I feel like every dungeon I was in was a waste of time. I have nothing but decon gear and vendor trash to show for time I spent in these dungeons.

After last night I decided to change my build mentality completely. I'll will run two 5 piece sets from now on. I don't enjoy running content when I'm not properly rewarded.

Like @ZOS_RichLambert said, we don't have to be here. I don't reference that to be negative at all; more the realization of I don't have to run dungeons and subject myself to RNG...and if running dungeons is my favorite thing and I'm no longer running them because of RNG, then why am I still playing ESO?

cpuScientist

Just combine training with prosperous. And leave that new trait in the loot table.

cpuScientist

I sometimes wonder if they are planning on adding something in the store or crates only, that let you change the trait. As in we can still get in game through endless grinding or we can just use the store.

If you guys do this whew am I out. And alot of others aswell.

RebornV3x

When has ZOS taken any feedback and used it I mean we had over 40 pages and 30k+ views on the Sorc feedback thread months ago and they still when live with all the changes even tho most of us told them what we knew would happen if that doesn't change there opinions nothing will most of the feedback threads here are useless.

God_flakes

jeremiah911 wrote: »

My main interests in this game are running dungeons and crafting. I love 2 piece monster sets. I know my dungeon grind pales in comparison to others but I used over 30 keys last night and didn't get one piece I was hoping for. The best I got was Skoria Infused, which I already have.

I have no issue running content and putting in time to get an EARNED reward. However, after 30 plus keys saved over the last 3 weeks or so, I feel like every dungeon I was in was a waste of time. I have nothing but decon gear and vendor trash to show for time I spent in these dungeons.

After last night I decided to change my build mentality completely. I'll will run two 5 piece sets from now on. I don't enjoy running content when I'm not properly rewarded.

Like @ZOS_RichLambert said, we don't have to be here. I don't reference that to be negative at all; more the realization of I don't have to run dungeons and subject myself to RNG...and if running dungeons is my favorite thing and I'm no longer running them because of RNG, then why am I still playing ESO?

I like your thinking-I've had it from the start. I refuse to expose myself to the frustration that is boring dungeon running and RNG. We all have enough in our lives to consider drudgery and misery. No need to add more. I will keep wearing my Kags and VD and if by some chance I come across a piece in the pvp vendor on Friday night then I will give the two pieces a try and swap out my torugs head and shoulder. But no way am I grinding dungeons endlessly for a 1 in 234 chance. Nope.

TreeHugger1

I used 49 keys to open maj al ragath pledge and didnt get even 1 swarm mother,got only 2 impen and many many sturdy.

Xsorus

If training and prosperous are to remain in the loot pool they need to scale down their drop rate, same with charged (got two of them in same dungeon also)

I shouldn't go through an entire dungeon and get nothing but prosperous.... that is asinine

Alaztor91

I used like 70 keys and got like 4 decent shoulders that I could use, however not the one I wanted (divines iceheart), I seriously think ZOS should add a token system or some way of changing traits on stuff because they will eventually balance traits again and new problems will arise.

Maybe pledges could reward some sort of ''gem'' or ''crystal''(as part of the quest reward or inside the undaunted chests) that is BoP, and you would need X of those plus some high amount of materials and gold to change the trait of an undaunted shoulder.

That would keep the players doing the pledges and make it so after a certain amounts of pledges completed, you can get exactly what you want.(still have to fight RNG for actual shoulder drop from chest tho)

I personally don't mind grinding for stuff IF I know that after X amount of time I will get what I want, but being at the complete mercy of the RNG is not fun.

Minalan

I'm just waiting for the "apex crown trait respec" item to be added to gambling crates. The ultimate troll move given that 75% of all drops are showing up with trash traits.

And there will be No published drop rate of the respec item of course. "This one thinks you should buy another crate and try again!"

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Alaztor91 wrote: »

I used like 70 keys and got like 4 decent shoulders that I could use, however not the one I wanted (divines iceheart), I seriously think ZOS should add a token system or some way of changing traits on stuff because they will eventually balance traits again and new problems will arise.

Maybe pledges could reward some sort of ''gem'' or ''crystal''(as part of the quest reward or inside the undaunted chests) that is BoP, and you would need X of those plus some high amount of materials and gold to change the trait of an undaunted shoulder.

That would keep the players doing the pledges and make it so after a certain amounts of pledges completed, you can get exactly what you want.(still have to fight RNG for actual shoulder drop from chest tho)

I personally don't mind grinding for stuff IF I know that after X amount of time I will get what I want, but being at the complete mercy of the RNG is not fun.

I have thought of something similar myself. Create an unbinding stone (or whatever you want to call it). It could have like a 1% drop chance from, Unaunted Chests, Trial Coffers, PVP rewards, Writ rewards, etc. In other words, spread it out through all kinds of content, but keep it relatively rare. This will encourage people to play the game, but not make it trivial or easy to just change all your traits at will. This will allow players to reasonably grind what they are after, and then adjust the one or two piece for a build that dont suit their needs. The stones could be BOE or BOP, I really dont care. If they were BOE, I would think a drop rate to give them a street value in the low 6 figures would be appropriate.

This would be the greatest thing to happen in ESO since launch, IMO.

Edit: For the record, if they had a vendor that changed traits. I would spend 500k+ per item and not think twice about it.