Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Well.
There is no diologue or cutscene but it's not that hard to explain.
If we go by the DLC dates the war has been going on for around 5 years now. With the alliance war at a stalemate, it isn't that big a stretch to say the alliances would likely have a armistance as far as trade and non-military people traveling freely in borders. Restrictions would likely extend to military personal, but the guilds? Traders? Mercenaries? Who'd care about them? The war would likely still be ongoing and actions like say, covenant raiding parties would likely still happen and be illegal and responded to like an invasion, but individual restrictions would likely be less after around five years.
We allready have people moving to places like Wayrest in search of work and geting it, this isn't such a leap, honestly.
Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Well.
There is no diologue or cutscene but it's not that hard to explain.
If we go by the DLC dates the war has been going on for around 5 years now. With the alliance war at a stalemate, it isn't that big a stretch to say the alliances would likely have a armistance as far as trade and non-military people traveling freely in borders. Restrictions would likely extend to military personal, but the guilds? Traders? Mercenaries? Who'd care about them? The war would likely still be ongoing and actions like say, covenant raiding parties would likely still happen and be illegal and responded to like an invasion, but individual restrictions would likely be less after around five years.
We allready have people moving to places like Wayrest in search of work and geting it, this isn't such a leap, honestly.
I would agree with that , except we have quest chains in each faction that have the player thwart their own alliance plans and i've had multiple point the the story when i'm like : Wait you want me to hinder a well coordinated assault or to help a traitor escape ? Where's the kill that guy option.... ah damn it i forgot i'm not supposed to do that.
So these kinds of things that directly involve the conflict between the 3 factions... remains in the air at that point , since the main story does not change the time lines , at the beginning , you still start from a prison cell and it throws you in the conflict, in the faction you chose.
But thank you for the confirmation , at least i now know that i should progress my story a bit on the one remaining alt, so i can at least have it properly in my head
I would agree with that , except we have quest chains in each faction that have the player thwart their own alliance plans and i've had multiple point the the story when i'm like : Wait you want me to hinder a well coordinated assault or to help a traitor escape ? Where's the kill that guy option.... ah damn it i forgot i'm not supposed to do that.
Ooh I like this That would work very well. There's a number of things associated with Meridia that could appear in front of you:tinythinker wrote: »When you first arrive in a different Alliance than the one you start the game with, add a glowing ball of light that appears only to you and that is heavily synthesized or continually altered in tone, pitch, etc. to make it seem other-worldly and unrecognizable. Something like this:
Mysterious Voice: You have strayed into lands that may see you as an enemy. My master sees great potential in you, and will cloak you from detection. In the eyes of those you meet here your true identity will be unknown. Your reputation here will be born anew according to your actions.
Player: Wait, I don't understand. Who is your master?
Mysterious Voice: All will be revealed...if you show the qualities my master anticipates. Fare thee well, mortal.
When you enter the other "enemy" Alliance, the original line from the Mysterious Voice changes a bit to this:
Mysterious Voice: Ahhh, mortal, once again you have strayed into lands that may see you as an enemy. My master still cloaks you from detection. As before, your reputation in this place will be born anew according to your actions.
So, you know, there you go. When you finally figure out who is pulling what strings (and why) later on this will make sense, but until then it adds another layer of intrigue. Now ZOS just needs to have a coder put in an NPC with the form of a glowy sphere at location x,y,z triggered by a new player entering zones a,b,c, then add in the text dialogue and set it to auto-play upon arrival, and grab a voice actor for a few minutes of work. Nothing too complicated or overly expensive/time-consuming.
- Ball of light, as you say. She is the Lady of Light, after all. An aspect of Meridia appeared in Skyrim as a ball of light, so this has precedence.
- Meridia's Beacon, also from Skyrim. Meridia can speak to you through the Beacon, and the Beacon itself could be the cloak. The item could remain in your Quest Items, and the tooltip would always remind you of its cloaking capabilities. To avoid spoilers, it would first be introduced as "A Strange Gem", or something.
- Auroran, Meridia's Daedric servants. Could be introduced as "A Mysterious Figure".
The timeline issue is something that's existed since launch, it's nothing new. Each zone exists in its own time period, and if you visit the zones out of order, you experience the timeline in the wrong order. And that applies to zones within alliances as well as between alliances. While I agree that it would be good for ZOS to address it, they haven't (and won't), because they never addressed it in the first place. You just have to know yourself that anything taking place in one of the alliance zones happens in the timeline before you defeat Molag Bal, even if you actually do it afterwards yourself.The problem is that all 3 alliances' quests happen in parrallel timelines. With Cadwell it all made sense, since it was magic that moved us in time.
What will happen now, I'm afraid, is that after killing Molag Bal we can go to another faction's zone and have quests that imply that Planemeld isn't stopped yet.
I have absolutely no issue that we don't care about war and all and work together in PvE as different factions, it's fine. What I don't understand is the time-space anomaly I described above. Did ZOS do anything about it?
I would agree with that , except we have quest chains in each faction that have the player thwart their own alliance plans and i've had multiple point the the story when i'm like : Wait you want me to hinder a well coordinated assault or to help a traitor escape ? Where's the kill that guy option.... ah damn it i forgot i'm not supposed to do that.
Actually, in your timeline you only do the "main story" of your faction. When you start Caldwell silver/gold he clearly states that you experiencing a alternative timeline of what would happen if you asssocieted with a different faction.
So you work for three alliances separetely, you work for one of them on three different timelines.
The timeline issue is something that's existed since launch, it's nothing new. Each zone exists in its own time period, and if you visit the zones out of order, you experience the timeline in the wrong order. And that applies to zones within alliances as well as between alliances. While I agree that it would be good for ZOS to address it, they haven't (and won't), because they never addressed it in the first place. You just have to know yourself that anything taking place in one of the alliance zones happens in the timeline before you defeat Molag Bal, even if you actually do it afterwards yourself.The problem is that all 3 alliances' quests happen in parrallel timelines. With Cadwell it all made sense, since it was magic that moved us in time.
What will happen now, I'm afraid, is that after killing Molag Bal we can go to another faction's zone and have quests that imply that Planemeld isn't stopped yet.
I have absolutely no issue that we don't care about war and all and work together in PvE as different factions, it's fine. What I don't understand is the time-space anomaly I described above. Did ZOS do anything about it?
Right, and we think that makes sense because they see you as they remember you; since Raz knows you from the AD timeline, Meridia's intervention means that's how he sees you when you meet him in the Gold Coast too, even if you're actually a DC player. We're moving away from a distinct "alternate timeline" setup to an "altered timeline" setup. As @Abeille has said before, it's kinda like a Spinner story, as it has direct parallels with The Witch of Silatar in Greenshade; you're put into Aranias' past to befriend her, and even though that never happened in the primary timeline, she remembers you as a friend when you meet her at Greenheart.It's also worth noting that any character you meet in Cadwell's Gold or Silver will still remember you if you meet them again later in a DLC. So the "multiple timeline" narrative device was already stretched thin. (And rightly so -- it would be terribly disappointing if Raz didn't remember me, even if we only met in a dream!)
WatchYourSixx wrote: »"Every culture on Tamriel remembers the Dragon Break in some fashion; to most it is a spiritual anguish that they cannot account for. Several texts survive this timeless period, all (unsurprisingly) conflicting with each other regarding events, people, and regions: wars are mentioned in some that never happen in another, the sun changes color depending on the witness, and the gods either walk among the mortals or they don't. Even the 'one thousand and eight years,' a number (some say arbitrarily) chosen by the Elder Council, is an unreliable measure."
―Where were you when the Dragon Broke?
It's been said time and time again.. Look up what a Dragon Break is in ESO. Boom. Everything and anything explained.
Why do npc's respawn like they were never killed? Dragon Break
Why are there so many different timelines all happening at once but at different times of me playing it? Dragon Break
EVERYTHING MAKES SENSE!
Even though it has never been officially stated as such, I cannot fathom how the events of an MMO in an Elder Scrolls Universe to be anything other than a Dragon Break.
Dragon Break is
They're fellow Undaunted and and people running around, looking for the same things - fame, fortune, and a big ol' stash o' sweetrolls.Multiple Heroes
This isn't an issue. From your perspective, and the perspective of the world, you are the Hero, the one and only Vestige (why do you think the Main Quest is forced solo?), and the one and only Alliance Champion. Everyone else is A. N. Adventurer, an incidental character who you happened across along the way. No dragon breaks required.
It's also worth noting that any character you meet in Cadwell's Gold or Silver will still remember you if you meet them again later in a DLC. So the "multiple timeline" narrative device was already stretched thin. (And rightly so -- it would be terribly disappointing if Raz didn't remember me, even if we only met in a dream!)
Even so, I'd like to see Enodoc and tinythinker's suggestion above (or some variation of it) implemented.
I see a lot of good explanations in here, but there is something that either I missed or hasn't been explained.
People keep saying that the Vestige is "anonymous" to members of the other factions when traveling in the "opposing" factions' zones. First of all, if Meridia is the one who is concealing the Vestige's identity from the other factions, how is this being accomplished before the Vestige even makes contact with Meridia? Anyone who has played through the main story at least once knows that Meridia is all but completely disinterested in going out of her way for the Vestige, let alone any other mortal. She only bestows this gift upon the Vestige after he/she successfully banishes Molag Bal and thwarts the Planemeld. Who is concealing the identity of some freshly-escaped, soulless Coldharbour victim?
Second, if I'm not mistaken (and I very well could be, Gods know I've done this story in whole or part at least 5 times, but still prone to mistakes), there are members within each of the "opposing" factions that recognize the Vestige for who he/she really is, like Razum-dar, for example. Again, if not mistaken, these events occur during Silver and Gold, but not during the standard playthrough. So then, are these nuances being removed entirely to account for players who haven't defeated Molag Bal prior to entering those zone? If so, is that not disappointing in and of itself? Those dialogue caveats are part of the Silver/Gold experience and help to close loopholes that would otherwise be present. Meridia was never totally successful in concealing the Vestige's identity; will it not be a more pronounced plot hole with 1T?
She could easily see the potential in the Vestige for the future. Someone who managed to escape Coldharbour may serve her well later down the line.People keep saying that the Vestige is "anonymous" to members of the other factions when traveling in the "opposing" factions' zones. First of all, if Meridia is the one who is concealing the Vestige's identity from the other factions, how is this being accomplished before the Vestige even makes contact with Meridia? Anyone who has played through the main story at least once knows that Meridia is all but completely disinterested in going out of her way for the Vestige, let alone any other mortal. She only bestows this gift upon the Vestige after he/she successfully banishes Molag Bal and thwarts the Planemeld. Who is concealing the identity of some freshly-escaped, soulless Coldharbour victim?
When does Raz see you for who you really are? As far as I can remember, he only sees you as someone who dropped out of the sky.Second, if I'm not mistaken (and I very well could be, Gods know I've done this story in whole or part at least 5 times, but still prone to mistakes), there are members within each of the "opposing" factions that recognize the Vestige for who he/she really is, like Razum-dar, for example. Again, if not mistaken, these events occur during Silver and Gold, but not during the standard playthrough. So then, are these nuances being removed entirely to account for players who haven't defeated Molag Bal prior to entering those zone? If so, is that not disappointing in and of itself? Those dialogue caveats are part of the Silver/Gold experience and help to close loopholes that would otherwise be present. Meridia was never totally successful in concealing the Vestige's identity; will it not be a more pronounced plot hole with 1T?
The timeline issue is something that's existed since launch, it's nothing new. Each zone exists in its own time period, and if you visit the zones out of order, you experience the timeline in the wrong order. And that applies to zones within alliances as well as between alliances. While I agree that it would be good for ZOS to address it, they haven't (and won't), because they never addressed it in the first place. You just have to know yourself that anything taking place in one of the alliance zones happens in the timeline before you defeat Molag Bal, even if you actually do it afterwards yourself.The problem is that all 3 alliances' quests happen in parrallel timelines. With Cadwell it all made sense, since it was magic that moved us in time.
What will happen now, I'm afraid, is that after killing Molag Bal we can go to another faction's zone and have quests that imply that Planemeld isn't stopped yet.
I have absolutely no issue that we don't care about war and all and work together in PvE as different factions, it's fine. What I don't understand is the time-space anomaly I described above. Did ZOS do anything about it?
Right, and we think that makes sense because they see you as they remember you; since Raz knows you from the AD timeline, Meridia's intervention means that's how he sees you when you meet him in the Gold Coast too, even if you're actually a DC player. We're moving away from a distinct "alternate timeline" setup to an "altered timeline" setup. As @Abeille has said before, it's kinda like a Spinner story, as it has direct parallels with The Witch of Silatar in Greenshade; you're put into Aranias' past to befriend her, and even though that never happened in the primary timeline, she remembers you as a friend when you meet her at Greenheart.
She could easily see the potential in the Vestige for the future. Someone who managed to escape Coldharbour may serve her well later down the line.People keep saying that the Vestige is "anonymous" to members of the other factions when traveling in the "opposing" factions' zones. First of all, if Meridia is the one who is concealing the Vestige's identity from the other factions, how is this being accomplished before the Vestige even makes contact with Meridia? Anyone who has played through the main story at least once knows that Meridia is all but completely disinterested in going out of her way for the Vestige, let alone any other mortal. She only bestows this gift upon the Vestige after he/she successfully banishes Molag Bal and thwarts the Planemeld. Who is concealing the identity of some freshly-escaped, soulless Coldharbour victim?
When does Raz see you for who you really are? As far as I can remember, he only sees you as someone who dropped out of the sky.Second, if I'm not mistaken (and I very well could be, Gods know I've done this story in whole or part at least 5 times, but still prone to mistakes), there are members within each of the "opposing" factions that recognize the Vestige for who he/she really is, like Razum-dar, for example. Again, if not mistaken, these events occur during Silver and Gold, but not during the standard playthrough. So then, are these nuances being removed entirely to account for players who haven't defeated Molag Bal prior to entering those zone? If so, is that not disappointing in and of itself? Those dialogue caveats are part of the Silver/Gold experience and help to close loopholes that would otherwise be present. Meridia was never totally successful in concealing the Vestige's identity; will it not be a more pronounced plot hole with 1T?
You must not have played the Dominion storyline recently.I disagree. It is very new. Other zones don't really imply you completed previous zones. I've been leveling an alt now and I go to zones randomly to collect books/skyshards and sometimes talk to NPCs to see what quest was there since I"ve done them 2 years ago and want to refresh my memory sometimes. I haven't seen any references to previous locations yet. Then again, Idk about orsinium since that note implies the Planemeld was stopped and Darien is gone, I guess.
Right, you don't know this is happening. Which is why ZOS need to put in an explanation like the one tinythinker came up with so that it's explained for new players. (No, I don't remember WoW. Never played it )But that "Solution" makes no sense. Especially if I"m a new player - how do I know about all these "fixes" lol? I don't wanna be this guy, but 'member WoW? There it made sense and was aligned with leveling. Now with all this auto-leveling it's just. Come on, they obviously should do something about it.
That's true, but Raz doesn't mention that meeting when you see him in AD territories afterwards, and considering you are famous, the only possible reason for him not recognising you would be because your identity was hidden. With One Tamriel, this will also work in reverse (correct me if I'm wrong); you may have met Raz many times in the AD storyline before doing Messages Across Tamriel for EP or DC, but he won't recognise you when you do that quest.Don't we meet Raz when we're getting all 3 alliances together? We are. Plus we kill Molag Bal, so after that we are famous.
I would say yes as well, and those things are happening because Meridia (or whoever) has inserted us into the story to become the Champion, just as the Spinner inserts us into the story to become Aranias' friend.However the question (and possible explanation of why we are recognized) is are all 3 timelines happening at the same time or no? I'd say yes - since NPCs in DLCs make references to all 3 factions, plus if not a player how would Ayrenn become the queen of AD and who would save Emeric from supernal dreamers, and would save Jorunn from that other dude.
Why not? It would be severely lax of her if she wasn't aware of a mortal escaping the realm of her arch nemesis, regardless of who helped the Vestige to escape.But again, who takes you out of Coldharbour is Akatosh. Meridia doesn't know the Vestige until he joins the FG
In DLC zones, anyone you met in an alliance storyline will recognise you, because they will remember you as a member of their alliance, even if you aren't. That's the benefit of the DLC zones bring Neutral.Raz is not the only one... what about Skordo in Orsinum?
Why not? It would be severely lax of her if she wasn't aware of a mortal escaping the realm of her arch nemesis, regardless of who helped the Vestige to escape.But again, who takes you out of Coldharbour is Akatosh. Meridia doesn't know the Vestige until he joins the FG
Raz is not the only one... what about Skordo in Orsinum?
In DLC zones, anyone you met in an alliance storyline will recognise you, because they will remember you as a member of their alliance, even if you aren't. That's the benefit of the DLC zones bring Neutral.
Lyris and Sai aren't Soul Shriven, supposedly bound to Molag Bal for eternity. They're just a pair of hapless mortals who got bowled along for the ride, and hapless mortals end up in Oblivion realms all the time. An escaping Soul Shriven is noteworthy, and the fact they severed their connection to Coldharbour and reconnected to Nirn makes them even more so.Fair enough, nevertheless she doesn't notice neither Lyris, nor Sai. Her focus on the Vestige comes after he destroys the Mortuum Vivicus. Even more, the champions she chose at the beginning were King Dynar and Vanus Galerion, both necessary to stop the planemeld. The Vestige was just the recruiter (for Hollow city)Why not? It would be severely lax of her if she wasn't aware of a mortal escaping the realm of her arch nemesis, regardless of who helped the Vestige to escape.But again, who takes you out of Coldharbour is Akatosh. Meridia doesn't know the Vestige until he joins the FG
Indeed, and if you do so, I believe that he doesn't recognise you.But you can go to Wrothgar even before completing storyline.In DLC zones, anyone you met in an alliance storyline will recognise you, because they will remember you as a member of their alliance, even if you aren't. That's the benefit of the DLC zones bring Neutral.Raz is not the only one... what about Skordo in Orsinum?
I see a lot of good explanations in here, but there is something that either I missed or hasn't been explained.
People keep saying that the Vestige is "anonymous" to members of the other factions when traveling in the "opposing" factions' zones. First of all, if Meridia is the one who is concealing the Vestige's identity from the other factions, how is this being accomplished before the Vestige even makes contact with Meridia? Anyone who has played through the main story at least once knows that Meridia is all but completely disinterested in going out of her way for the Vestige, let alone any other mortal. She only bestows this gift upon the Vestige after he/she successfully banishes Molag Bal and thwarts the Planemeld. Who is concealing the identity of some freshly-escaped, soulless Coldharbour victim?
Second, if I'm not mistaken (and I very well could be, Gods know I've done this story in whole or part at least 5 times, but still prone to mistakes), there are members within each of the "opposing" factions that recognize the Vestige for who he/she really is, like Razum-dar, for example. Again, if not mistaken, these events occur during Silver and Gold, but not during the standard playthrough. So then, are these nuances being removed entirely to account for players who haven't defeated Molag Bal prior to entering those zone? If so, is that not disappointing in and of itself? Those dialogue caveats are part of the Silver/Gold experience and help to close loopholes that would otherwise be present. Meridia was never totally successful in concealing the Vestige's identity; will it not be a more pronounced plot hole with 1T?
The question is... is really Meridia who's concealing the Vestige's identity? Because what you receive is Akatosh's blessing to defeat Molag Bal.
Meridia's work is through the Fighter's Guild (she was the one who came up with the plane that put See-all-colors in front of the FG). That serves her in 2 different ways:
1- The Mortuum Vivicus (directly through the FG)
2- The Planar Vortex (to stop the Planemeld in the Army of Meridia chapter)
Meridia does not participate in the main quest, everything is done through Varen, and who's the one Varen's asks for help? Yup, the very same Akatosh. Meridia only appears to save the Vestige soul because he/she is useful to her (she says at some point she used the Vestige). And even she mentions that the other Princes are aware of his/her existance.
What I think is that Akatosh foresaw the events related to the Vestige and informed Varen about that through the Elder Scrolls. He knew he needed Meridia's help to defeat Molag Bal without having a Dragonborn (similar to Nerevarine and Azura), but ultimately, as well as in Morrowind, the Vestige (and thus the Nerevarine) are champions of Akatosh.
Why not? It would be severely lax of her if she wasn't aware of a mortal escaping the realm of her arch nemesis, regardless of who helped the Vestige to escape.But again, who takes you out of Coldharbour is Akatosh. Meridia doesn't know the Vestige until he joins the FG
Fair enough, nevertheless she doesn't notice neither Lyris, nor Sai. Her focus on the Vestige comes after he destroys the Mortuum Vivicus. Even more, the champions she chose at the beginning were King Dynar and Vanus Galerion, both necessary to stop the planemeld. The Vestige was just the recruiter (for Hollow city)Raz is not the only one... what about Skordo in Orsinum?
In DLC zones, anyone you met in an alliance storyline will recognise you, because they will remember you as a member of their alliance, even if you aren't. That's the benefit of the DLC zones bring Neutral.
But you can go to Wrothgar even before completing storyline.