Maintenance for the week of June 24:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – June 24
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – June 26, 4:00AM EDT (08:00 UTC) – 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)

One Tam confusion about the story aspect

  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Autolycus wrote: »
    Xvorg wrote: »
    Autolycus wrote: »
    I see a lot of good explanations in here, but there is something that either I missed or hasn't been explained.

    People keep saying that the Vestige is "anonymous" to members of the other factions when traveling in the "opposing" factions' zones. First of all, if Meridia is the one who is concealing the Vestige's identity from the other factions, how is this being accomplished before the Vestige even makes contact with Meridia? Anyone who has played through the main story at least once knows that Meridia is all but completely disinterested in going out of her way for the Vestige, let alone any other mortal. She only bestows this gift upon the Vestige after he/she successfully banishes Molag Bal and thwarts the Planemeld. Who is concealing the identity of some freshly-escaped, soulless Coldharbour victim?

    Second, if I'm not mistaken (and I very well could be, Gods know I've done this story in whole or part at least 5 times, but still prone to mistakes), there are members within each of the "opposing" factions that recognize the Vestige for who he/she really is, like Razum-dar, for example. Again, if not mistaken, these events occur during Silver and Gold, but not during the standard playthrough. So then, are these nuances being removed entirely to account for players who haven't defeated Molag Bal prior to entering those zone? If so, is that not disappointing in and of itself? Those dialogue caveats are part of the Silver/Gold experience and help to close loopholes that would otherwise be present. Meridia was never totally successful in concealing the Vestige's identity; will it not be a more pronounced plot hole with 1T?

    The question is... is really Meridia who's concealing the Vestige's identity? Because what you receive is Akatosh's blessing to defeat Molag Bal.

    Meridia's work is through the Fighter's Guild (she was the one who came up with the plane that put See-all-colors in front of the FG). That serves her in 2 different ways:

    1- The Mortuum Vivicus (directly through the FG)
    2- The Planar Vortex (to stop the Planemeld in the Army of Meridia chapter)

    Meridia does not participate in the main quest, everything is done through Varen, and who's the one Varen's asks for help? Yup, the very same Akatosh. Meridia only appears to save the Vestige soul because he/she is useful to her (she says at some point she used the Vestige). And even she mentions that the other Princes are aware of his/her existance.

    What I think is that Akatosh foresaw the events related to the Vestige and informed Varen about that through the Elder Scrolls. He knew he needed Meridia's help to defeat Molag Bal without having a Dragonborn (similar to Nerevarine and Azura), but ultimately, as well as in Morrowind, the Vestige (and thus the Nerevarine) are champions of Akatosh.

    This was really insightful, thank you. It got me to see a different perspective of it, as I hadn't given a lot of consideration for the connection between Akatosh and Varen, despite having known this all along, nor had I taken that further to conclude that it is actually Akatosh's involvement that can be accredited for the Vestige's unhindered access to the other alliance zones.

    The way you explain it makes a lot more sense than simply saying it was Meridia. She expressly states numerous times that she is either using the Vestige, or doesn't care for mortal business at all. It's far more reasonable to believe that Akatosh was involved from the very beginning (and thus, is the one who is actually shielding the Vestige from other alliances), since the Vestige forces his/her own involvement by aiding Varen from the beginning - an act that is undoubtedly going to gain the attention of Akatosh (because why would he not be watching Varen?).

    I just have one other question then - If it's not Meridia who is really shielding the Vestige in other alliance territories, then why is that the Vestige must activate one of the Lights of Meridia (with Cadwell's help) to get there? I know it's not technically this way anymore, because we can travel wherever we want now (instead of being forced down a linear path through silver/gold like we used to). But that's how the story goes, yes? Is it not the Light of Meridia and her magick that enables the Vestige to get there initially? If that's the case, how does the Vestige move across zones without reaching this point first, at least without causing a plot hole?

    That's a good question and I have no answer except through another question: who is Cadwell?
    The biggest problem within this game is the lack imagination on its player base and its developers...
    DragonKNIGHT KNIGHT!!!! not Dragonscoundrel, neither Dragonarcher....
    ― Our enemy was bold so we were bolder... our enemy was strong so we were stronger...

    ― Then, why did you lose?

    ― Our enemy was stupid...
    Get rid of poison on DKs...
  • Haxnschwammer
    Haxnschwammer
    ✭✭✭✭
    Well, ZO$ stoped caring about story, background, lore,... a long time ago.
    Everything what counts for them now is money. Will they get anything from creating
    a new, meaningful story about full zone access? No. So I doubt that they will put a
    thought into.

    Even in the past they put a cheap solution to the alliance problem.
    For historic reason:
    In the beginning, that means in PC Beta, there wasn't Cadwells Silver or Gold.
    You had your alliance. You went to max level (50), killed Molag Bal and then
    there was ZO$ Endgame: Cyrodiil.
    But players complained that they don't want to make alts, they want to playerswith their
    main char. So Cadwells was created. But they didn't put any effort into it. Just
    a cheap "Meridia shows you a version where you started in a different alliance".
    And people didn't want to loose their progress, so veteran levels were introduced.
    So you spawn there as a brand new hero (with max level). Nobody knows you
    because at ZO$ nobody cared about that.

    You will be recognized in DLC zones because they have been new developed. So NPCs
    have the build in scripts to react. Of course here nobody cares about your alliance
    and that they shouldn't be able to recognize you, or ,even worse, do and try to kill you.

    Now with "one Tamriel" there is no need for Cadwells. Now you can just go there.
    No need to respawn as "new" hero. But will ZO$ invest money into old scripts
    when they don't care about 2 year old bugs? About cheats end exploits?
    Of course they are thinking about it, they want to build something, they
    have ideas. Like with jewelery, like spell crafting, like justice system....

    The only reason they put work into combining the alliances into one big zone is
    to get rid of player seperation in three parts. Now your "gold zones" aren't empty
    but filled with players who started there. Of course this is only done to
    hide crumbling player numbers.
    With a big amount of work put into one tamriel, there would be a chance to
    adjust scripting. But I will believe in this when I see it.
    I think ZO$ will go again with the cheapest idea players come up
    with(*cough*dragon break*cough*) IF ZO$ mention that at all.

    Mercyfull Kyne...so much sarcasm early in the morning... I need a coffee

    Once I was a healer. Then I took a Wrobel to the knee.

    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
  • Memnock
    Memnock
    ✭✭✭
    Ilsabet wrote: »
    Milvan wrote: »
    Memnock wrote: »
    I would agree with that , except we have quest chains in each faction that have the player thwart their own alliance plans and i've had multiple point the the story when i'm like : Wait you want me to hinder a well coordinated assault or to help a traitor escape ? Where's the kill that guy option.... ah damn it i forgot i'm not supposed to do that.

    Actually, in your timeline you only do the "main story" of your faction. When you start Caldwell silver/gold he clearly states that you experiencing a alternative timeline of what would happen if you asssocieted with a different faction.

    So you work for three alliances separetely, you work for one of them on three different timelines.

    That's clearly the case now, but it'll be muddied up when One Tamriel lets you go to any area and do the quests there out of order. That's what the OP is asking about since we won't necessarily have the Cadwell explanation for what we're doing in the other alliances.

    This ^
    sirston wrote: »
    The the dragon Break theory I like it. Only issue is if you can experience any faction before cadswil silver and gold; then do silver and gold. are you just experiencing your self's alternate timeline Self? :/ The problem with dragon break is that no one would Know expect for yourself, but once you realized it you would forget about it. Time looping by lore...[/quote]

    And this ^

    Time travel makes my head hurt. :neutral:

    Edit: I forgot to thank you guys for all the replies and for the insight provided with regards to the story , stuff that i kind of forgotten are coming up to the surface :)

    Edited by Memnock on October 4, 2016 11:04AM
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well, ZO$ stoped caring about story, background, lore,... a long time ago.
    Everything what counts for them now is money. Will they get anything from creating
    a new, meaningful story about full zone access? No. So I doubt that they will put a
    thought into.

    Even in the past they put a cheap solution to the alliance problem.
    For historic reason:
    In the beginning, that means in PC Beta, there wasn't Cadwells Silver or Gold.
    You had your alliance. You went to max level (50), killed Molag Bal and then
    there was ZO$ Endgame: Cyrodiil.
    But players complained that they don't want to make alts, they want to playerswith their
    main char. So Cadwells was created. But they didn't put any effort into it. Just
    a cheap "Meridia shows you a version where you started in a different alliance".
    And people didn't want to loose their progress, so veteran levels were introduced.
    So you spawn there as a brand new hero (with max level). Nobody knows you
    because at ZO$ nobody cared about that.

    You will be recognized in DLC zones because they have been new developed. So NPCs
    have the build in scripts to react. Of course here nobody cares about your alliance
    and that they shouldn't be able to recognize you, or ,even worse, do and try to kill you.

    Now with "one Tamriel" there is no need for Cadwells. Now you can just go there.
    No need to respawn as "new" hero. But will ZO$ invest money into old scripts
    when they don't care about 2 year old bugs? About cheats end exploits?
    Of course they are thinking about it, they want to build something, they
    have ideas. Like with jewelery, like spell crafting, like justice system....

    The only reason they put work into combining the alliances into one big zone is
    to get rid of player seperation in three parts. Now your "gold zones" aren't empty
    but filled with players who started there. Of course this is only done to
    hide crumbling player numbers.
    With a big amount of work put into one tamriel, there would be a chance to
    adjust scripting. But I will believe in this when I see it.
    I think ZO$ will go again with the cheapest idea players come up
    with(*cough*dragon break*cough*) IF ZO$ mention that at all.

    Mercyfull Kyne...so much sarcasm early in the morning... I need a coffee

    Well that's right... although a lot of TES lore has been addressed by TES fans and as you say, the Dragon break is a cheap explanation anyone can point out.

    Nevertheless, generically talking ot is not the cheapest explanation, there's another one: everything after beating Molag Bal was a dream or something that happened in the colored rooms.
    The biggest problem within this game is the lack imagination on its player base and its developers...
    DragonKNIGHT KNIGHT!!!! not Dragonscoundrel, neither Dragonarcher....
    ― Our enemy was bold so we were bolder... our enemy was strong so we were stronger...

    ― Then, why did you lose?

    ― Our enemy was stupid...
    Get rid of poison on DKs...
Sign In or Register to comment.