@Cryptical u make a valid point, although thats just one hub. Does the herd affect other market hubs around tamriel or just that one.
@Tavore1138 buying cheap and selling happens on lonely street corners. I merely talking how easily u can manipulate the market. Gold is easily obtainable in eso. In return the market can easily be control, if u have a right amount of funds.
Supply and demands plays a huge roll in the market. Though even with that, prices can fluctuate even when demand is high. Because each trading hub as its own market, making it alot easier to buy cheap and sell from one hub to another.
@Cryptical u make a valid point, although thats just one hub. Does the herd affect other market hubs around tamriel or just that one.
Tavore1138 wrote: »@Cryptical u make a valid point, although thats just one hub. Does the herd affect other market hubs around tamriel or just that one.
@Tavore1138 buying cheap and selling happens on lonely street corners. I merely talking how easily u can manipulate the market. Gold is easily obtainable in eso. In return the market can easily be control, if u have a right amount of funds.
Supply and demands plays a huge roll in the market. Though even with that, prices can fluctuate even when demand is high. Because each trading hub as its own market, making it alot easier to buy cheap and sell from one hub to another.
My point is that the 'right' amount of funds would be huge - in the 2 trade guilds I am in over 60 millions worth of gold tempers has shifted in the last 30 days, even guessing that there are maybe 20 serious trade guilds that would extrapolate to 600 million and that is not touching on purple/blue/green mats, runes, herbs, base materials, recipes, motifs and all the other things that sell day in day out in huge numbers. That's PC EU btw.
Now I'll admit I have no idea how much the big trade guild leads have and whether you could get enough of them to stop trying to outbid each other for front row spots in good locations to sit down and agree to manipulate the markets but it would take a hell of a lot of money and effort to do it and anyone can undercut their pricing via smaller guild sellers anyway.
Not denying it is possible but suggesting the scale of funds that would be needed make it unlikely - sometimes price fluctuations are just reflecting the ebb and flow of supply and demand and not a conspiracy.
Tavore1138 wrote: »@Cryptical u make a valid point, although thats just one hub. Does the herd affect other market hubs around tamriel or just that one.
@Tavore1138 buying cheap and selling happens on lonely street corners. I merely talking how easily u can manipulate the market. Gold is easily obtainable in eso. In return the market can easily be control, if u have a right amount of funds.
Supply and demands plays a huge roll in the market. Though even with that, prices can fluctuate even when demand is high. Because each trading hub as its own market, making it alot easier to buy cheap and sell from one hub to another.
My point is that the 'right' amount of funds would be huge - in the 2 trade guilds I am in over 60 millions worth of gold tempers has shifted in the last 30 days, even guessing that there are maybe 20 serious trade guilds that would extrapolate to 600 million and that is not touching on purple/blue/green mats, runes, herbs, base materials, recipes, motifs and all the other things that sell day in day out in huge numbers. That's PC EU btw.
Now I'll admit I have no idea how much the big trade guild leads have and whether you could get enough of them to stop trying to outbid each other for front row spots in good locations to sit down and agree to manipulate the markets but it would take a hell of a lot of money and effort to do it and anyone can undercut their pricing via smaller guild sellers anyway.
Not denying it is possible but suggesting the scale of funds that would be needed make it unlikely - sometimes price fluctuations are just reflecting the ebb and flow of supply and demand and not a conspiracy.
Walk away mate, we're firmly in tinfoil territory here.
Tavore1138 wrote: »@Cryptical u make a valid point, although thats just one hub. Does the herd affect other market hubs around tamriel or just that one.
@Tavore1138 buying cheap and selling happens on lonely street corners. I merely talking how easily u can manipulate the market. Gold is easily obtainable in eso. In return the market can easily be control, if u have a right amount of funds.
Supply and demands plays a huge roll in the market. Though even with that, prices can fluctuate even when demand is high. Because each trading hub as its own market, making it alot easier to buy cheap and sell from one hub to another.
My point is that the 'right' amount of funds would be huge - in the 2 trade guilds I am in over 60 millions worth of gold tempers has shifted in the last 30 days, even guessing that there are maybe 20 serious trade guilds that would extrapolate to 600 million and that is not touching on purple/blue/green mats, runes, herbs, base materials, recipes, motifs and all the other things that sell day in day out in huge numbers. That's PC EU btw.
Now I'll admit I have no idea how much the big trade guild leads have and whether you could get enough of them to stop trying to outbid each other for front row spots in good locations to sit down and agree to manipulate the markets but it would take a hell of a lot of money and effort to do it and anyone can undercut their pricing via smaller guild sellers anyway.
Not denying it is possible but suggesting the scale of funds that would be needed make it unlikely - sometimes price fluctuations are just reflecting the ebb and flow of supply and demand and not a conspiracy.
Walk away mate, we're firmly in tinfoil territory here.
It was thought that it was not possible to rig the exhaust tests, then Volkswagen was shown to have done it for years. It was thought that international interest rates were unable to be rigged, but LIBOR has been shown to be manipulated, causing overpricing to happen to the tune of trillions of dollars. People assumed that Wells Fargo was actually growing at the rate it showed on the books, but it turns out the assumption was wrong. These are real world manipulations of systems much more complex than the eso guild trader.
Many things are assumed to be impossible due to the way a system is set up. But time and ingenuity have shown that when people assume impossibility they just aren't thinking creatively. The poll assumed that it will be done with brute force of millions of gold, when these systems are much more prone to manipulation through deftness. Sort of like how you can hit a baseball out of a park with brute strength and crappy technique, but using good technique it takes a LOT less rite strength. This is why I chose 10 million, because the guild trader system is more vulnerable to pressure-over-time manipulation due to no actual link between the true value of items and their selling price.
People are assuming that prices at guild traders are not able to be rigged. Is anyone here going to actually claim that it cannot be done, in the face of the real world examples I gave?
Tavore1138 wrote: »@Cryptical u make a valid point, although thats just one hub. Does the herd affect other market hubs around tamriel or just that one.
@Tavore1138 buying cheap and selling happens on lonely street corners. I merely talking how easily u can manipulate the market. Gold is easily obtainable in eso. In return the market can easily be control, if u have a right amount of funds.
Supply and demands plays a huge roll in the market. Though even with that, prices can fluctuate even when demand is high. Because each trading hub as its own market, making it alot easier to buy cheap and sell from one hub to another.
My point is that the 'right' amount of funds would be huge - in the 2 trade guilds I am in over 60 millions worth of gold tempers has shifted in the last 30 days, even guessing that there are maybe 20 serious trade guilds that would extrapolate to 600 million and that is not touching on purple/blue/green mats, runes, herbs, base materials, recipes, motifs and all the other things that sell day in day out in huge numbers. That's PC EU btw.
Now I'll admit I have no idea how much the big trade guild leads have and whether you could get enough of them to stop trying to outbid each other for front row spots in good locations to sit down and agree to manipulate the markets but it would take a hell of a lot of money and effort to do it and anyone can undercut their pricing via smaller guild sellers anyway.
Not denying it is possible but suggesting the scale of funds that would be needed make it unlikely - sometimes price fluctuations are just reflecting the ebb and flow of supply and demand and not a conspiracy.
Walk away mate, we're firmly in tinfoil territory here.
It was thought that it was not possible to rig the exhaust tests, then Volkswagen was shown to have done it for years. It was thought that international interest rates were unable to be rigged, but LIBOR has been shown to be manipulated, causing overpricing to happen to the tune of trillions of dollars. People assumed that Wells Fargo was actually growing at the rate it showed on the books, but it turns out the assumption was wrong. These are real world manipulations of systems much more complex than the eso guild trader.
Many things are assumed to be impossible due to the way a system is set up. But time and ingenuity have shown that when people assume impossibility they just aren't thinking creatively. The poll assumed that it will be done with brute force of millions of gold, when these systems are much more prone to manipulation through deftness. Sort of like how you can hit a baseball out of a park with brute strength and crappy technique, but using good technique it takes a LOT less rite strength. This is why I chose 10 million, because the guild trader system is more vulnerable to pressure-over-time manipulation due to no actual link between the true value of items and their selling price.
People are assuming that prices at guild traders are not able to be rigged. Is anyone here going to actually claim that it cannot be done, in the face of the real world examples I gave?
We aren't talking about cornering the market. We are talking about manipulating it.jedtb16_ESO wrote: »hmm.... to truly corner the market one would also have to corner the means of production. possible?
i'm not sure who it is you think was claiming that the real world examples you gave were impossible.
the whole point about an effective cartel is that it needs to control the means of production and distribution. so, speaking as a farmer of all things in game, i am wondering just how my activities would be controlled by a guild. i am also, reasonably, sure that there a many other players who operate in a similar manner.
We aren't talking about cornering the market. We are talking about manipulating it.jedtb16_ESO wrote: »hmm.... to truly corner the market one would also have to corner the means of production. possible?
i'm not sure who it is you think was claiming that the real world examples you gave were impossible.
the whole point about an effective cartel is that it needs to control the means of production and distribution. so, speaking as a farmer of all things in game, i am wondering just how my activities would be controlled by a guild. i am also, reasonably, sure that there a many other players who operate in a similar manner.
To be the dominant power in the market if product X one need only control a significantly larger share of the flow of that product than anyone else.
No need to go out and spend effort / capital to buy up tempers, if you control the store then the tempers will come to you.
No need to go out and spend effort / capital to buy up all the store spaces, if the great majority of people hit a certain 15ish stores then those 15 are where the money is - where the money flows through.
And if the farther-afield stores take their cues from the 15 most busy stores, then any manipulation that happens in those 15 will have a domino ripple effect outward throughout the remaining.
So price manipulation in the 15 stores of, for example, Elden root and rawl'ka would ripple out through the rest of the system.
@jedtb16_ESO the problem with controlling the farming is guild traders. To many variables and out comes to control them. An auction house would make it easier though. For instance I am farmer and to afford me u would have pay me an hourly rate for farming and since u can manipulate the market easily, hourly rate can vary from one capital to another.
@Cryptical while dude above makes a good argument base on the farming aspect of eso. Rare material concept of eso is too dependent on the rng system. Making it difficult to control the farmers.
jedtb16_ESO wrote: »@jedtb16_ESO the problem with controlling the farming is guild traders. To many variables and out comes to control them. An auction house would make it easier though. For instance I am farmer and to afford me u would have pay me an hourly rate for farming and since u can manipulate the market easily, hourly rate can vary from one capital to another.
@Cryptical while dude above makes a good argument base on the farming aspect of eso. Rare material concept of eso is too dependent on the rng system. Making it difficult to control the farmers.
the traders have no influence over the farmers.
i am a farmer... i can sell without a guild.
an auction house makes manipulating/cornering a market ridiculously easy.
jedtb16_ESO wrote: »@jedtb16_ESO the problem with controlling the farming is guild traders. To many variables and out comes to control them. An auction house would make it easier though. For instance I am farmer and to afford me u would have pay me an hourly rate for farming and since u can manipulate the market easily, hourly rate can vary from one capital to another.
@Cryptical while dude above makes a good argument base on the farming aspect of eso. Rare material concept of eso is too dependent on the rng system. Making it difficult to control the farmers.
the traders have no influence over the farmers.
i am a farmer... i can sell without a guild.
an auction house makes manipulating/cornering a market ridiculously easy.
For a price I would be someone farming ***, 200k an hour I could be influence.
I could manipulate the market on Xbox na just with 10 million. Just gotta buy everything yellow everyday until u have no gold left. Then wait for people to restock, market would rise and then resell your merchandise in stacks of 8 on five differs traders. Dont even have to touch anything else, yellow mats is the true currency of tamriel.
jedtb16_ESO wrote: »We aren't talking about cornering the market. We are talking about manipulating it.jedtb16_ESO wrote: »hmm.... to truly corner the market one would also have to corner the means of production. possible?
i'm not sure who it is you think was claiming that the real world examples you gave were impossible.
the whole point about an effective cartel is that it needs to control the means of production and distribution. so, speaking as a farmer of all things in game, i am wondering just how my activities would be controlled by a guild. i am also, reasonably, sure that there a many other players who operate in a similar manner.
To be the dominant power in the market if product X one need only control a significantly larger share of the flow of that product than anyone else.
No need to go out and spend effort / capital to buy up tempers, if you control the store then the tempers will come to you.
No need to go out and spend effort / capital to buy up all the store spaces, if the great majority of people hit a certain 15ish stores then those 15 are where the money is - where the money flows through.
And if the farther-afield stores take their cues from the 15 most busy stores, then any manipulation that happens in those 15 will have a domino ripple effect outward throughout the remaining.
So price manipulation in the 15 stores of, for example, Elden root and rawl'ka would ripple out through the rest of the system.
no.
everyone trading, to an extent, manipulates the market.
and you say 'No need to go out and spend effort / capital to buy up tempers, if you control the store then the tempers will come to you' this is not coherent.
again controlling the flow means you have to control the farmers... i think that would be akin to herding cats.
See thats the problem with console right now, supply is down because farmers aren't farming.
But even with farmers, its easier to control the market; more supplies. It just going cost a lot of gold to keep it going. Thats y we r playing this game in the first place.
jedtb16_ESO wrote: »See thats the problem with console right now, supply is down because farmers aren't farming.
But even with farmers, its easier to control the market; more supplies. It just going cost a lot of gold to keep it going. Thats y we r playing this game in the first place.
hey bud.... i think we are saying much the same thing from different directions.
how about we call it an honourable draw?
If you cannot be bothered going and getting them yourself, you have to pay the market rate. The person selling them was able to get them and so can you. There are also plenty of ways to make/earn gold to pay for them but it looks like you probably don't want to do that either.wolfxspice wrote: »disintegr8 wrote: »Who cares?
i care, temp alloys are at 25k+ on xbox na right now, its ridiculous
jedtb16_ESO wrote: »i am a farmer... i can sell without a guild.