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RIP light armor :( ( PvP )

  • Minno
    Minno
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    geonsocal wrote: »
    ugh, I'm one of those poor fools who runs 7 light (on 2 characters :'( )...

    it doesn't really seem to bother my mDK...but, my magsorc has to stay on the move constantly...

    just wondering, do boundless storm and empowered ward stack?

    Yeah they stack because they offer different buffs. Boundless storm gives around 5k resistances (like wearing 2 pieces of heavy without the passives), and the ward is a straight damage absorb. In pvp I wear 2 large pieces of heavy and keep boundless storm up constantly. Combine that with a defending resto staff on back bar, some impen and the vampire undeath passive and suddenly you actually have time to cast your ward.

    Good moves!

    Extra info:
    - "large" pieces in relation to armor actually means any piece except for hands/belt. Only the chest, head and legs give a large enchantment bonus though.
    - nirn traits actually gives more armor than reinforced traits for "large" heavy armor and adds extra spell resistance (Delta of like 90 points for physical).
    - dmg mitigation happens to dmg before hitting your shield
    n
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • ZoM_Head
    ZoM_Head
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    Light armor... I laughed.

    Magicka sorcs are doing great in light armor

    Sadly i can not say the same for the magicka DK in light armour.
    mDKs still need a lot of love!
  • Synozeer
    Synozeer
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    Minno wrote: »
    Xvorg wrote: »
    If you run light armor why would you not run annulment it's actually kind of op

    Not in a million years is OP. OP is dodgeroll and avoid every single attack for a couple of secs. The bubble forces you to play defensively, watching your bar and counting to 6. Samina dodge rolls and for a couple of secs FORGETS defensive tactics even if there are 5 or 6 guys around. You can't do that with a bubble.

    I play both, stam and magicka and the differece between both is huge.

    I agree, I take a big hit to my damage if I slot it because it takes up a slot that I really need for other things. It's NICE when I have it but you have to spam it when you're focused and totally go defensive.

    Dodge roll is a huge amount better by a long way.

    Dodge is the best mitigation only because it's the only mitigation that can negate the entire dmg of a spell. Everything else has to run through the gauntlet of the "armor mitigation" equation, whereas dodge chance is literally "can you dodge? If yes, don't take any dmg, if no, take dmg."

    On the flip side, there is damage you can't dodge (Radiant, Meteor, some AoEs, etc), while a shield can stop all damage (except unresistable) regardless of whether it can be dodged or not, so as long as the shield is big enough.
    Watch my PvP Videos on YouTube

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    ...and many more.
  • Berenhir
    Berenhir
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    Synozeer wrote: »
    Minno wrote: »
    Xvorg wrote: »
    If you run light armor why would you not run annulment it's actually kind of op

    Not in a million years is OP. OP is dodgeroll and avoid every single attack for a couple of secs. The bubble forces you to play defensively, watching your bar and counting to 6. Samina dodge rolls and for a couple of secs FORGETS defensive tactics even if there are 5 or 6 guys around. You can't do that with a bubble.

    I play both, stam and magicka and the differece between both is huge.

    I agree, I take a big hit to my damage if I slot it because it takes up a slot that I really need for other things. It's NICE when I have it but you have to spam it when you're focused and totally go defensive.

    Dodge roll is a huge amount better by a long way.

    Dodge is the best mitigation only because it's the only mitigation that can negate the entire dmg of a spell. Everything else has to run through the gauntlet of the "armor mitigation" equation, whereas dodge chance is literally "can you dodge? If yes, don't take any dmg, if no, take dmg."

    On the flip side, there is damage you can't dodge (Radiant, Meteor, some AoEs, etc), while a shield can stop all damage (except unresistable) regardless of whether it can be dodged or not, so as long as the shield is big enough.

    You can even shield against already applied DoTs, try dodge rolling a cold harbour ballista tick or poison injection at low health.

    Dodge is superior against incoming burst damage and CC. The latter is the key element to the current stamina meta, as the time frame between cc and cc break is short and thus burst builds are the way to go.
    PC EU - Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Vivec Kaalgrontiid

    currently playing...
    ... The Whipster, Magicka Dragonknight
    ... Dodge-A-Lot, Stamina Nightblade
    ... Tragic Mushroom, Stamina Warden
    ... Gulhir, Magicka Nightblade
  • a1i3nz
    a1i3nz
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    Light armor is alive and well for casters. But you better be casting from a distance or your @## is grass.

    I used to run light on my Templar until the stam meta and the influx of hard hitting proc sets. Now I run straight cheese on him. No regrets.
  • HaldaAinur
    HaldaAinur
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    Light armor can be pretty awesome if used properly on a magicka build. I also agree with thankyourat- for a magicka build it can be extremely useful, as can many of the buffs/abilities related to mag regen.
  • Lokey0024
    Lokey0024
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    You make a Tunic out of the drapes and expect it to stop my Claymore?! Just wave your little stick around from the rear guard please.
  • psychotic13
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    Anyone think light armor needs a slight rework, and add another passive?

    I mean for medium armor, the regen and cost reduction bonuses are part of the same passive, but there 2 different passives for light armor. Plus in medium you get crit per piece of armor while Magicka gets screwed into having the 5pc bonus as crit? While medium gets +12% weapon damage.
  • Ihatenightblades
    Ihatenightblades
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    Anyone think light armor needs a slight rework, and add another passive?

    I mean for medium armor, the regen and cost reduction bonuses are part of the same passive, but there 2 different passives for light armor. Plus in medium you get crit per piece of armor while Magicka gets screwed into having the 5pc bonus as crit? While medium gets +12% weapon damage.

    Well light armor gets the spell pen bonus with 5 so so it evens out. Even though i would trade spell resistance for spell damage any day for a passive lol


    I just wish they made the armor actually make a diffrence . spell resistance and physical resistance just doesnt seem to do much in pvp


  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
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    Docmandu wrote: »
    Light armor is alive and well for casters. But you better be casting from a distance or your @## is grass.

    I used to run light on my Templar until the stam meta and the influx of hard hitting proc sets. Now I run straight cheese on him. No regrets.

    Casting from a distance is a fallacy... every stam class has a gap closer, so everybody is in your face immediately.. there is no kiting / ranged in this game. Imho game would be more balanced with melee vs caster if it didn't have spammable gap closers, ie imagine gap closers being ultimates only... then today's stam burst would make more sense.

    Or they have

    1- Bows
    2- Silver shard
    3- Javelin
    4- Flying blade
    5- Webs
    ZoS did it. I'm pretty furious and I want to burn this to ashes... Flame and Fury, DK identity...
    DragonKNIGHT KNIGHT!!!! not Dragonscoundrel, neither Dragonarcher....
    ― Our enemy was bold so we were bolder... our enemy was strong so we were stronger...

    ― Then, why did you lose?

    ― Our enemy was stupid...
    When it comes to crap, big-time, major league crap, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, ZoS. No contest. No contest. ZoS. ZoS easily has the greatest crap story ever told. Think about it: ZoS has actually convinced people, that there's a balance patch, coming next chapter, which will make you do everything you want do, at any hour, every day. And this balance patch has a special list of things it wants you to do. And if you don't do any of these things, it has a special place, full of lag and zergs and bleeds and procs and nerfs, where he will send you to die and suffer and respec and die and give AP and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!

    But it loves you. It loves you, and it has lag! It always has lag! It's all-fun, all-perfect, all-lore, and all-challenging, somehow just can't handle lag! ZoS takes in millions of dollars, they pay no high-end servers, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good crap story. Holy Proc!
  • exeeter702
    exeeter702
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    Docmandu wrote: »
    Light armor is alive and well for casters. But you better be casting from a distance or your @## is grass.

    I used to run light on my Templar until the stam meta and the influx of hard hitting proc sets. Now I run straight cheese on him. No regrets.

    Casting from a distance is a fallacy... every stam class has a gap closer, so everybody is in your face immediately.. there is no kiting / ranged in this game. Imho game would be more balanced with melee vs caster if it didn't have spammable gap closers, ie imagine gap closers being ultimates only... then today's stam burst would make more sense.

    My thoughts exactly. There is no legitimate kiting game here, so having the illusion that light armor should be for ranged casting and excel at it is a joke.

    Since this game doesn't operate on cool downs and players are instead beholden only to resource costs and with cp being as generous as it is for resource management it, gap closing is offensively generous. Combo that with how strong dodge is, and that since it is generally obtained via shuffle and everyone and their mother has it on their bar, snares are a non factor.

    Caster kiting is a pipe dream.

    Increase the dead zone of gap closers, increase their cost, and strip them of their damage if you arent going to allow spells that provide snares and roots to be immune to dodge.
    Light armor is alive and well for casters. But you better be casting from a distance or your @## is grass.
    keep telling yourself that.....

    Edited by exeeter702 on September 26, 2016 5:23PM
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
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    exeeter702 wrote: »
    Docmandu wrote: »
    Light armor is alive and well for casters. But you better be casting from a distance or your @## is grass.

    I used to run light on my Templar until the stam meta and the influx of hard hitting proc sets. Now I run straight cheese on him. No regrets.

    Casting from a distance is a fallacy... every stam class has a gap closer, so everybody is in your face immediately.. there is no kiting / ranged in this game. Imho game would be more balanced with melee vs caster if it didn't have spammable gap closers, ie imagine gap closers being ultimates only... then today's stam burst would make more sense.

    My thoughts exactly. There is no legitimate kiting game here, so having the illusion that light armor should be for ranged casting and excel at it is a joke.

    At the beggining in this game there was no difference between stam -> melee; magicka -> ranged.

    That was a very "smart" answer from a developer, but you were able to slot DW and flame staff in the same character (in fact, my first toon used that combo)
    ZoS did it. I'm pretty furious and I want to burn this to ashes... Flame and Fury, DK identity...
    DragonKNIGHT KNIGHT!!!! not Dragonscoundrel, neither Dragonarcher....
    ― Our enemy was bold so we were bolder... our enemy was strong so we were stronger...

    ― Then, why did you lose?

    ― Our enemy was stupid...
    When it comes to crap, big-time, major league crap, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, ZoS. No contest. No contest. ZoS. ZoS easily has the greatest crap story ever told. Think about it: ZoS has actually convinced people, that there's a balance patch, coming next chapter, which will make you do everything you want do, at any hour, every day. And this balance patch has a special list of things it wants you to do. And if you don't do any of these things, it has a special place, full of lag and zergs and bleeds and procs and nerfs, where he will send you to die and suffer and respec and die and give AP and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!

    But it loves you. It loves you, and it has lag! It always has lag! It's all-fun, all-perfect, all-lore, and all-challenging, somehow just can't handle lag! ZoS takes in millions of dollars, they pay no high-end servers, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good crap story. Holy Proc!
  • Minno
    Minno
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    Synozeer wrote: »
    Minno wrote: »
    Xvorg wrote: »
    If you run light armor why would you not run annulment it's actually kind of op

    Not in a million years is OP. OP is dodgeroll and avoid every single attack for a couple of secs. The bubble forces you to play defensively, watching your bar and counting to 6. Samina dodge rolls and for a couple of secs FORGETS defensive tactics even if there are 5 or 6 guys around. You can't do that with a bubble.

    I play both, stam and magicka and the differece between both is huge.

    I agree, I take a big hit to my damage if I slot it because it takes up a slot that I really need for other things. It's NICE when I have it but you have to spam it when you're focused and totally go defensive.

    Dodge roll is a huge amount better by a long way.

    Dodge is the best mitigation only because it's the only mitigation that can negate the entire dmg of a spell. Everything else has to run through the gauntlet of the "armor mitigation" equation, whereas dodge chance is literally "can you dodge? If yes, don't take any dmg, if no, take dmg."

    On the flip side, there is damage you can't dodge (Radiant, Meteor, some AoEs, etc), while a shield can stop all damage (except unresistable) regardless of whether it can be dodged or not, so as long as the shield is big enough.

    Thanks! That's where my next thought would have went; just highlighting the simplicity of dodge chance over shield.

    Some of the attacks that do go through require the enemy to be standing in the area, RD requires one to be at 30%health, and the AoEs are ineffective after battlr spirit+ CP get done with their dmg.

    It would be ideal to provide some way to actively counter dodge chance. Healing has them now, shield has them, and block has them, but dodge chance does not.
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • John_1999
    John_1999
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    Light Armor was great before DB came out. I always played magica Templar without shields, and It worked fine.
    But the damage increase and the buff to heavy armor makes it almost impossible to play a magica based class in light armor without shields. I try from time to time some new stuff and builds in "open world pvp", what we are talking about here and not duels, and I got rekt by 13K incap strike with 5 Light and 4 impen. If ZOS don't change something in this game, ill stay at heavy armor for my magplar.

    Even if they would nerf heavy armor, this wouldn't change anything, because stam based classes will still do tons of damage to light armor.

    In my opinion, if you are running light armor or naked through cyrodill, that's no difference for me.

    And wait for the next patch, where stam classes get more toys to play with... you can reach 50K stam, with 4K WD.

    The damage increase each patch just ruins the game, we will get to this point, where you will one shot people, if this increase and increase of damage doesn't stop.

    If light armor gets spell damage, it will still only be playable if you use shields, but every one should be able to wearing light armor without using shields and be still competitive.

    R.I.P. light armor, was fun wit you.
    Magicka Templar: Tammi von Tamriel
    Stammina Templar: John James Smith

    -Current CP: 3601-

    -Just a noob in a world full of pro's.-
    -There is no bussines like lag bussines-
  • Hutch679
    Hutch679
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    If you wanna run light armor in pvp, you need to pair it with a monster set that either helps you survive, one hand and shield (unless you're a sorc), absorb shield stacking, additional champion points in hardy (ie. +80), or any combination of 2 or more that I listed. Light is still viable in pvp. Just takes more skill to pull it off and also depends on your class. Use a reinforced shield. Could stack some cp into bastion too.
  • Lord_Wrath
    Lord_Wrath
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    Im still not used to having to recast shields at 6s. Its honestly more annoying than anything.
    1000+ CP | Lørd Wrath | - Sorcerer - Praetorian - Grand Master Crafter - 28000 Achievement Points
    Launch Player - PC - NA - EP
  • Hutch679
    Hutch679
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    Lord_Wrath wrote: »
    Im still not used to having to recast shields at 6s. Its honestly more annoying than anything.

    Honestly I think they should have nered them by 10 or 15% and kept the duration at what it was
  • Malamar1229
    Malamar1229
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    Again, personally, id rather keep light armor where it is (in terms of lacking survivability) and instead allow it to buff spell damage.
    We silly mages in dresses should be very squishy, but mobile and heavy hitters.


    -Makkir
  • exeeter702
    exeeter702
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    Again, personally, id rather keep light armor where it is (in terms of lacking survivability) and instead allow it to buff spell damage.
    We silly mages in dresses should be very squishy, but mobile and heavy hitters.


    -Makkir

    That would solve nothing. There is no light armor ranged caster advantage in this game. It works in traditional mmos, because of the careful balancing act of gap closing CDs and effective kiting tools that don't suffer from physical property mitigation's ie. being able to dodge spells.

    If gap closers remain as generous as they are in this game, on top of unchained and shuffle, then there is no hope for light armor ranged builds that arent forced to cast 2-3 shields every 6 seconds. Mag blades can already build themselves into a near one shot out of stealth destro staff build. Mgdk still has no option to make range, a damage buff would only help them troll from the back of a crowd. Templar has the heals for days and sorcerer has the sheilds for days, both have the burst from range.

    A damage buff isn't what is needed, effective kiting as a form of skilled counterplay to melee needs to be encouraged, and to get to that point, something needs to be done to gap closers.

    If not then give mag dks a tool that disuades melee from getting in their face 100 percent of the time. Mag Dks don't have to be as mobile, but make them a threat to close range builds in some way. And find a way to increase the effectiveness of mag blade dots without breaking pve. They already have the high burst all in options, let them have a strong sustained ranged dot option that can actually be a threat, while not making there snare and root options so miserably ineffective.
    Edited by exeeter702 on October 1, 2016 5:23PM
  • DephlaterMouse
    DephlaterMouse
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    Replace spell resistance with 50% cost reduction to break free/dodge roll (would make sense that standing up and doing a somersault would be easier in cloths than armour) and you'd have your balance.
    USA to New Zealand transplant.
  • Malamar1229
    Malamar1229
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    exeeter702 wrote: »
    Again, personally, id rather keep light armor where it is (in terms of lacking survivability) and instead allow it to buff spell damage.
    We silly mages in dresses should be very squishy, but mobile and heavy hitters.


    -Makkir

    That would solve nothing. There is no light armor ranged caster advantage in this game. It works in traditional mmos, because of the careful balancing act of gap closing CDs and effective kiting tools that don't suffer from physical property mitigation's ie. being able to dodge spells.

    If gap closers remain as generous as they are in this game, on top of unchained and shuffle, then there is no hope for light armor ranged builds that arent forced to cast 2-3 shields every 6 seconds. Mag blades can already build themselves into a near one shot out of stealth destro staff build. Mgdk still has no option to make range, a damage buff would only help them troll from the back of a crowd. Templar has the heals for days and sorcerer has the sheilds for days, both have the burst from range.

    A damage buff isn't what is needed, effective kiting as a form of skilled counterplay to melee needs to be encouraged, and to get to that point, something needs to be done to gap closers.

    If not then give mag dks a tool that disuades melee from getting in their face 100 percent of the time. Mag Dks don't have to be as mobile, but make them a threat to close range builds in some way. And find a way to increase the effectiveness of mag blade dots without breaking pve. They already have the high burst all in options, let them have a strong sustained ranged dot option that can actually be a threat, while not making there snare and root options so miserably ineffective.

    My comments go in conjunction with my year long parade that sorcs need their mobility back

    As the father of #SorcLivesMatter, you need not justify nor explain our lack of mobility as I completely agree.
  • milesrodneymcneely2_ESO
    milesrodneymcneely2_ESO
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    Lord_Wrath wrote: »
    Im still not used to having to recast shields at 6s. Its honestly more annoying than anything.
    The problem with the way shielding works these days is the cost, IMHO.

    For a 6-second duration, the cost of shielding is completely out of control. If you're building in enough regen and cost reduction to keep you from running out of Magicka in less time than it takes to say it, you're not doing enough damage to matter.

    The reason that Stamina is the meta right now is that it's more cost efficient all the way around. So you can put your damage through the ceiling while still having enough sustainability to make it work.

    If you ask me, shielding costs need to be drastically reduced or - at the very least - bumped to an 8-second duration.
  • thankyourat
    thankyourat
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    Lord_Wrath wrote: »
    Im still not used to having to recast shields at 6s. Its honestly more annoying than anything.
    The problem with the way shielding works these days is the cost, IMHO.

    For a 6-second duration, the cost of shielding is completely out of control. If you're building in enough regen and cost reduction to keep you from running out of Magicka in less time than it takes to say it, you're not doing enough damage to matter.

    The reason that Stamina is the meta right now is that it's more cost efficient all the way around. So you can put your damage through the ceiling while still having enough sustainability to make it work.

    If you ask me, shielding costs need to be drastically reduced or - at the very least - bumped to an 8-second duration.

    I don't understand the reasoning behind stamina skills costing less. The argument is that stamina users use stamina for offense and defense, but I would argue magicka is the same way. all magicka skills need to be reduced in cost or either stamina's need to be raised
  • CapuchinSeven
    CapuchinSeven
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    Lord_Wrath wrote: »
    Im still not used to having to recast shields at 6s. Its honestly more annoying than anything.
    The problem with the way shielding works these days is the cost, IMHO.

    For a 6-second duration, the cost of shielding is completely out of control. If you're building in enough regen and cost reduction to keep you from running out of Magicka in less time than it takes to say it, you're not doing enough damage to matter.

    The reason that Stamina is the meta right now is that it's more cost efficient all the way around. So you can put your damage through the ceiling while still having enough sustainability to make it work.

    If you ask me, shielding costs need to be drastically reduced or - at the very least - bumped to an 8-second duration.

    This, this this this. I keep being told "magic builds have sustainability L2P" and yet my stamina NB has as much stamina as my magic NB has magic and with MORE damage and MORE regen, MORE break free, MORE dodge rolls.
  • Moltyr
    Moltyr
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    ZOS_RyanM wrote: »
    We removed several posts that were off-topic. Please keep all disagreements civil, constructive, and on-topic .

    Speaking of which, light armor has been dead for a long time.

    IIRC from numerous Elder Scrolls games....light armor users were faster than those with other armor type correct? Why are they punished in ESO? Shouldn't they at least have some sort of maneuverability bonus if nothing else?
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
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    Replace spell resistance with 50% cost reduction to break free/dodge roll (would make sense that standing up and doing a somersault would be easier in cloths than armour) and you'd have your balance.

    I want minor lifesteal or something similar.
    ZoS did it. I'm pretty furious and I want to burn this to ashes... Flame and Fury, DK identity...
    DragonKNIGHT KNIGHT!!!! not Dragonscoundrel, neither Dragonarcher....
    ― Our enemy was bold so we were bolder... our enemy was strong so we were stronger...

    ― Then, why did you lose?

    ― Our enemy was stupid...
    When it comes to crap, big-time, major league crap, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, ZoS. No contest. No contest. ZoS. ZoS easily has the greatest crap story ever told. Think about it: ZoS has actually convinced people, that there's a balance patch, coming next chapter, which will make you do everything you want do, at any hour, every day. And this balance patch has a special list of things it wants you to do. And if you don't do any of these things, it has a special place, full of lag and zergs and bleeds and procs and nerfs, where he will send you to die and suffer and respec and die and give AP and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!

    But it loves you. It loves you, and it has lag! It always has lag! It's all-fun, all-perfect, all-lore, and all-challenging, somehow just can't handle lag! ZoS takes in millions of dollars, they pay no high-end servers, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good crap story. Holy Proc!
  • ManDraKE
    ManDraKE
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    Xvorg wrote: »
    Docmandu wrote: »
    Light armor is alive and well for casters. But you better be casting from a distance or your @## is grass.

    I used to run light on my Templar until the stam meta and the influx of hard hitting proc sets. Now I run straight cheese on him. No regrets.

    Casting from a distance is a fallacy... every stam class has a gap closer, so everybody is in your face immediately.. there is no kiting / ranged in this game. Imho game would be more balanced with melee vs caster if it didn't have spammable gap closers, ie imagine gap closers being ultimates only... then today's stam burst would make more sense.

    Or they have

    1- Bows
    2- Silver shard
    3- Javelin
    4- Flying blade
    5- Webs

    yeah, use that *** on pvp and you get washed in 3 seconds.
    - Bow is only good for gankig or back bar to use posion injection + major expedition
    - Silver shard? LOL
    - Javelin is for CC, is not a ranged dps skil, the dmg is really low
    - Flying blade? waste of skill, just a zerg tool
    - Webs? LOL^2.

    Edited by ManDraKE on October 6, 2016 5:28PM
  • Hutch679
    Hutch679
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    What is light armor? I've never heard of it in cyrodiil.
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