I partially agree with the OP.

Running difficult content must have incentives beyond BOP because the very top players quickly get all the BOP they need and will simply stop running it if there is no other incentive. Most engame raids are made up of a few 1st tier elite players, mostly nd tier players like myself, and almost always too many 3rd tier players. Keeping those 1st tier players interested is vital as it keeps the pipeline of new talent moving. I honestly doubt you will be rewarding enough gold to keep these players running for just gold because, as the OP put it, they often spend 50k per run especially if they have some 3rd tier players who are not good enough to carry their own weight that they have to compensate for. (I define 1st tier as those who can carry, 2nd as those who will can take care business and could complete with a group of only themselves, and 3rd as players who are really doing content that is more difficult than a group of them can handle.) Rewarding good salable BOE gear was a good incentive and depending on the hard mode trial yielded an average of 50-150k per run.

Furthermore, trials acquired gear makes up the heart of the guild trader market and a very substantial portion of overall revenues. Do you remember what happens to traders after Orsinium? I'm sure they will all be thrilled with this.

Lastly, I disagree with the OP about the absolute numbers of, and requirements for, premium pots in most situations. Though, Gold gear and the associated cost is basically a requirement. Personally, if not on a leaderboard run, I only burn expensive pots at a few places in a few trials and not on cool-down. Most players are this way though most will not admit such. Mostly what I spend on trials is my time but, as you will note with the fact I did only a handfull of trials in the time they were underleveled, it does take some reward for me to spend my time on trials. A great example of this if vMA which I have only done twice though I do it fine. With no BOE, a chance of getting the BOP I want of something like 1/200, content that is not social or fun, and a significant pots and repairs cost outlay, I choose not to participate.

Bottom line. You must incentivize content beyond BOP for old players to teach new ones and it is no accident that in the gold BOE hard mode era you had more players running trials than since 1.5. The high rewards re-invigorated the entire endgame community, I am gathering from your choice now you would rather it die again?

In Communist ESO, game plays you!

Unless the price of mats drops significantly, which I can't see happening with One Tamriel, people are going to go broke very quickly. Columbine costs 1,200 gold each on PS4 EU...

Not only is this change being made to trial loot, but also to dungeon loot; which is where the majority of the mid-game players make their gold before stepping up to Normal mode Trials. It's a simply progression from overworld > normal dungeons > vet dungeons > normal trials > vet trials. Throw Maelstorm and Dragonstar in there somewhere and you've now got a whole array of BoP situations that you cannot possibly sustain your purse throughout. It's not just the cost of pots, it's the cost to make your gear, the cost to improve your gear, the cost to change your gear every time new gear comes out, the cost to improve that, the cost of food / drink, the cost of enchanting.

Sure, adding monetary rewards to the Veteran Trials was a nice touch, but what about the 80% of the population that don't run them? What about the new players who can't progress? Those of us who log on to do the pledges, then spend some time in PvP may as well pack up and not bother.

As stated earlier Maelstrom Weapons, Master Weapons, Monster Helms, and End Game Trials gear should remain BOP. All else should be BOE.

BOP is going to turn this game into a boring snoozefest.

@anitajoneb17_ESO

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

As stated earlier Maelstrom Weapons, Master Weapons, Monster Helms, and End Game Trials gear should remain BOP. All else should be BOE.

BOP is going to turn this game into a boring snoozefest.

Why ???
Why is it "legit" to make maelstroem weapons BoP and anything else is not OK and leading to "boring grindfest" ?

#selectivesubjectiveargumentation
#whateverisbestFORME

Its not really a grindfest. Other than maybe farming mats endlessly to try and get tempers since they will double in price and few people will have enough gold to update their builds. Its just boring.

I personally think the best and most fun approach is to make all BOE. But people would probably get their pitchforks out for some unknown reason if that were to happen. I personally could care less if some guy gets a Sharpened Maelstrom Inferno and sells it for 3 Mil. Good for them, and good for the guy who can afford it.

However for some reason BOP just keeps getting pushed further into the game. If BOP is deemed necessary for any items, those are the items it should apply to.

They're adding all these sets, and eliminating the sale of items for profit. When you have several builds that you try to keep up to date, and gold mats are 10K+, people will have no way to upgrade their gear. Especially since the gold temper drop rate is stupid low. I can find better things to do with my time than run around Wrothgar all day farming, just to get 4 wax that doesn't even gold out one piece of my set. Its boring. Why will players stick around for that?

The new BOP system will make the economy boring. PVP sets will be a dime a dozen (as they already are). The only other sellable items of value will be Tempers, Rare Motifs, Rare Style Gems, and Alchemy Mats.

It will make dungeons/trials boring. Once you run several times and get the gear, why go back?

I've been running COS lately. Yeah, I enjoy it, but now I have everything I need there other than a divines medium helm. Once that drops why would I go back? Zero interest in anything else that drops there. I already have a hard enough time trying to get anyone to run it. But many people already got their helm, and just have no interest in running it.

Why will experienced trials groups take the time to help less experienced people through the content (other than a few Good Samaritans). The other ones either won't do it anymore or start charging 100K for clears. That sounds great for the game...

Or vMA. Spend an hour in there and get 400 gold worth of vendor trash. After doing that 50+ times wheres the incentive? I guess I'll keep trying to get that sharpened inferno, but when then drops I'll never go back.

There's a reason right now that trials farming is all I see 90% of people doing. Its because you can actually get useful gear, and also have the excitement of the possibility of getting a good drop that is actually worth something. Even if it doesn't fit your build, you can sell it, and reinvest the earnings toward the tempers or mats to improve your character.

So spare me with you hashtag nonsense, and explain to be one thing that is good about BOP. All I see is it watering down gameplay, making drops and the economy less exciting, and making the game boring.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

So spare me with you hashtag nonsense, and explain to be one thing that is good about BOP. All I see is it watering down gameplay, making drops and the economy less exciting, and making the game boring.

I never said everything was good about BoP.
I never said everything was good about BoE either.

I can see pros and cons in both.

However if people say "everything should be BoE except VMA and VDSA drops", then I disagree.
It's not what you're specifically saying, so that's ok.

That being said, all your argumentation about "why should players carry on running content of they have got all their gear already" can be counterweighted by "why should players run ANY content at all if they can just buy the gear". That's why BoP exists. Not saying it's good or bad, should or shouldn't exist, but that's why it's there.

Ok,

I like a lot of the changes from this last patch, and look forward to many in the next.

The movement to mainly BOP just seems like a huge negative among all the positives.

I would be 100% for removal of all BOE. Players would continuously run the content if they could sell the items, and the rarity and usefulness of the items would drive the market price. The same way that PVPers top the campaign leaderboards and sell their gold jewelry.

But if we can't have that than at least preserve a mix of BOP and BOE in PVE content, as it is better than all BOP.

For example, Gossamer is BOP in COS. It is relevant in both PVE and PVP builds. However, vCOS is one of the more challenging dungeons in the game currently. For a healer (Player A) who mainly enjoys PVP, and wants this set, they are forced to run this content in order to have access to it. However, it is likely that that their PVP build is less than ideal for healing in PVE. Maybe they run Heavy Armor, or use Impen, or run transmutation etc. This player now needs to re-gear for PVE and grind this content, or find a group that is willing to try and carry them through. Either way, they are forced into grinding a type of gameplay that they don't necessarily enjoy because of BOP.

At the same time, a PVE Healer (Player B ) that likes running vCOS. After a few runs they get the Gossamer set in the pieces desired. They might run it some more for the fun of it, but eventually there is nothing left in that dungeon that they need. In the meantime they have deconstructed/vendored many Gossamer pieces that they could have easily sold to Player A (and saved them a lot of time/resources).

The kicker is that if Player B, the PVE healer, decides to take a crack at PVP, they can just stroll over to a guild trader and buy a whole set of Transmutation, Vicious Death, Cyrodiil's Light etc in desired traits and stroll into PVP with their ideal setup without ever having stepped foot in PVP before.

It just seems like an unnecessary and imbalanced system that is about to get much worse.

Erock25 wrote: »

I'm not a raider so let's just get that out of the way first. I haven't raided since the max level was v10 or 12. In my opinion, the reward for raiding is the best gear. That's how it's been in every mmo I've ever played. Also as someone else said, use crap pots or builds that don't require pots if you don't want to spend that much money.

This whole statement is exactly why they are removing it, and is completely incorrect. I highly encourage you to take this mentality into VAA hm or VMoL hm. Anyone who has completed recent highest tiers of content will tell you the same thing, the gold you spend using potions that you actually need to beat it in addition to repair costs will be greater than the profit at any competitive level. This game actually gives better rewards and profits to players who scale trials down or aren't playing at a competitive level.

newtinmpls wrote: »

AmberLaTerra wrote: »

my cash stack combined across 12 chars currently is about 500k, I have gotten so rich raiding haven't I??? Between the money I put back into my trade guild, and the money I spend on supplies to help guild mates in social guilds learn to raid I break even from my raid drops. My main income is fishing and selling the Psijic Ambrosia I make from the perfect roe I get not raiding.

All the change to BoP for everything in raids will do is make something I currently break even doing lose me way more money then will be worth bothering with.

Hmmmm

I have about 52k across two accounts and 17 characters (only one extra slot ... so far).

It's really hard for me to work up any sympathy for your situation here.

[quote="Autolycus;3340226
There is nothing unfair about asking for things to remain the way they are.

I don't disagree... but as I have been informed over and over again (being new to the MMORPG-verse) that in any MMO or online game:

Things Change.

So asking for "things to remain how they are" - for any kind of change is just not going to happen. [/quote]

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

So spare me with you hashtag nonsense, and explain to be one thing that is good about BOP. All I see is it watering down gameplay, making drops and the economy less exciting, and making the game boring.

I never said everything was good about BoP.
I never said everything was good about BoE either.

I can see pros and cons in both.

However if people say "everything should be BoE except VMA and VDSA drops", then I disagree.
It's not what you're specifically saying, so that's ok.

That being said, all your argumentation about "why should players carry on running content of they have got all their gear already" can be counterweighted by "why should players run ANY content at all if they can just buy the gear". That's why BoP exists. Not saying it's good or bad, should or shouldn't exist, but that's why it's there.

Actually, everyset which is too OP to be consider as regular drop drop should be BoP, any set which is too good to be used and then trade should be BoE, and any set which is craft or that is consider as normal should not be bound !

I don't personnally see why some stuff should be bound in the first place ! that's Something we often forgot. I wouldn't mind if a craft could go and sell his Kagernac stuff when he's now using SPC or why he couldn't sell his Hunding's Rage when he's now using TBS or NMG !

So IMHO, dungeon stuff BoE except Monster Helm which are BoP (even if now with the new system, I kind of feel those have become mainstream enough to be BoE) so maybe even Monster Helm/Shoulder = BoE. Openland Stuff and Crafted Gear = Not Bound, Normal Trial Gear = BoE, Veteran Trial Gear = BoP, vMA/vDSA gear = BoE, vMA/vDSA weapon = BoP.

And TBH I would even go further and not allow any drop from veteran Trial Inside Normal Trial, and boost the stats of veteran trial gear (no longer 129 weapon damage for exemple but 140 weapon damage) to make them really Worth to be BoP and if player want to farm boss one and two of those dungeon let them do so, this gear would really be Worth it.

EDIT: AND WORST, I wouldn't mind if trial gear would get back to their usual setting (so 129 weapon damage vs. 140) when they hit Cyrodill. I do really feel like their should be mecanism to allow PVE to upgrade without compromising pvp and same for PVP ! Example new Alliance War skill line which are only affecting player while Guild skill are only affecting mobs.

The OP is most eloquent on the matter and I do hope the powers that be take heed.

Very well said. Lets not forget that now that potions seems to be the best way to make gold so that favorite node farming spot you love that sometimes has one person ruining it well now you are going to have two entire factions farming that spot aswell and i highly doubt that zos has put in the effort to allow nodes to spawn fast enough for the amount of people. But belkarth wayshrine is back baby!

Erock25 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

there is utterly no reward for these groups except a gold loss. Don't you start to think that there is really no point in doing trials?

The reward is the gear. Your complaint could be that potions are too expensive sure, but saying that trials aren't rewarding enough is ludicrous. Some of the best sets come from trials.

If he is doing vet hard chances are he already have the gear he wants. Why should he not be able to sell it to offset the cost of running.