JimT722 wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

ZOS hired the man man who created the neverwinter store to run the crown store.

Be scared

That's great! I installed neverwinter, played 5 minutes, then uninstalled it and never thought about playing again.

deadlychaos1991 wrote: »

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

ragespell wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

The outrage is people who want the items but dont want to use the crates.

The argument about gambling addiction is a vit of a stretch because if this triggers that, you are still within addiction and afe going to be gambling on real life things. If tou are in recovery, you will be not drawn into it as you know yourself.

Just be honest and say you want whats there in another way instead of creating some far reaching social issue.

Entitlement is real, if you want whats in there you buy them. If its against your personal ethics to gamble for things, you dont get them.

And you are wrong. It's not buying.
If you buy bread, you expect that in exchange for you money you will have your bread.

Here ZOS is trying to sell you bread at ten times or more its value, because 9 times out of 10 your money will buy you nothing.

As anyone of you of the pro camp, have ever seen other games with crates? Do you really think they are elegant and well designed?

Don't like the crates then don't buy the crates it's that simple.

Exactly the mentality that ruined so many good MMO's. Most valuable crown store items will become locked behind these gates, meaning only hard gamblers will be paying money for them. More money generated from that = devs making more things locked behind rng = more money being spent on crown crate development than actual dlc = less subscribers. It's one of the big contributing factors to what kills MMO's.

Exactly. Definitely kills them for me.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

People should really start taking responsibility for their own actions instead of blaming others for their problems. If someone chooses to blow all their money on these crates how is that ZOS's fault? How about growing up and getting help instead of blaming others.

If a casino started setting up slot machines in your house you'd be pissed. Addictive tendencies tend to be passed down in families. I will just avoid such an environment as I am aware of this and would get addicted if I started down that path.

That casino is not forcing me to spend my money on the slot machines though. If I had started spending all my money on the machines then sure I could be pissed at the casino all I wanted but in reality it would be my fault for spending my money on them.

I see people are on completely opposite sides of this debate, and I feel I'm right in the middle. I might buy one or two crates just to try them out, and take a roll of the old RNG to see how I fare.

I'll use whatever crown store power-ups I get (some people here said they would bank them and not use them. Okay.. now that is a waste of money) and I will be happy if I get some cool mount or skin.

I however don't NEED an exclusive mount, or skin, or anything like that, so I won't be dropping mega money to feel special. I will judge the crates on whether I feel I got 400 crowns worth of useful stuff or not. I think that if you are not getting at least 400 crowns worth of useful stuff, then it's a ripoff. The chance to get something worth more than 400 crowns is a bonus.

Some of you are likening this situation to one where someone buys all of the cereal at the grocery so they can collect all the toys in a series (they don't put toys in cereal anymore, do they?). The point is, you buy the cereal, get a random prize. Now if someone's got the money to buy out all of the stock at Ralph's, you probably wouldn't care that much, except maybe to give him the side-eye and keep your kids away. You probably won't call Kellogg's to tell them that they are taking advantage of the poor people who need to collect all the cereal toys.

That's why I think the arguments here are misplaced. We should be upset if and only if, we don't get 400 crowns worth of stuff for the initial purchase. Don't get angry because the cereal didn't have the toy you wanted. Get angry if the box is empty.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

JimT722 wrote: »

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

JimT722 wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

ZOS hired the man man who created the neverwinter store to run the crown store.

Be scared

That's great! I installed neverwinter, played 5 minutes, then uninstalled it and never thought about playing again.

deadlychaos1991 wrote: »

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

ragespell wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

The outrage is people who want the items but dont want to use the crates.

The argument about gambling addiction is a vit of a stretch because if this triggers that, you are still within addiction and afe going to be gambling on real life things. If tou are in recovery, you will be not drawn into it as you know yourself.

Just be honest and say you want whats there in another way instead of creating some far reaching social issue.

Entitlement is real, if you want whats in there you buy them. If its against your personal ethics to gamble for things, you dont get them.

And you are wrong. It's not buying.
If you buy bread, you expect that in exchange for you money you will have your bread.

Here ZOS is trying to sell you bread at ten times or more its value, because 9 times out of 10 your money will buy you nothing.

As anyone of you of the pro camp, have ever seen other games with crates? Do you really think they are elegant and well designed?

Don't like the crates then don't buy the crates it's that simple.

Exactly the mentality that ruined so many good MMO's. Most valuable crown store items will become locked behind these gates, meaning only hard gamblers will be paying money for them. More money generated from that = devs making more things locked behind rng = more money being spent on crown crate development than actual dlc = less subscribers. It's one of the big contributing factors to what kills MMO's.

Exactly. Definitely kills them for me.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

People should really start taking responsibility for their own actions instead of blaming others for their problems. If someone chooses to blow all their money on these crates how is that ZOS's fault? How about growing up and getting help instead of blaming others.

If a casino started setting up slot machines in your house you'd be pissed. Addictive tendencies tend to be passed down in families. I will just avoid such an environment as I am aware of this and would get addicted if I started down that path.

That casino is not forcing me to spend my money on the slot machines though. If I had started spending all my money on the machines then sure I could be pissed at the casino all I wanted but in reality it would be my fault for spending my money on them.

I come from a family with massive addiction problems. I understand the tendency. However many don't and could fall victim. The way the system is designed, the NPC, and everything else about it seems to target addicts. They are adding gambling to a place that's never had them.

What ZOS is doing is not illegal. I would do the same. It's easy money.

I agree with you. It is effective and that's why it is sweeping the gaming industry. That doesn't mean we have to respect a company that does it. If I had known 2.5 years ago I wouldn't have supported them and I have already paid a lot of money in support.

Sureshawt wrote: »

Wolfchild07 wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

deadlychaos1991 wrote: »

Look I get the whole rng crown crate thing but it's just bad business practice. It is taking advantage over people who have a gambling addiction. Not saying it's Zos's responsibility to prevent or cure the addiction but it's still a low blow. People already said they would have been WILLING to buy the types of items they offer outright on the crown store. Which would have made them plenty of money by itself. I for one would have purchased a storm mount or two. But now, not a single penny is going toward that. They're turning away purchasing customers to appeal to gamblers. Making 0 money of people who don't gamble, and a *** ton off people who do. It's not illegal nor will it make me leave the game, it's just low.

I find this argument about gambling addiction to also be a reach and almost as bad as the predatory business practice accusation.

Are people with gambling addictions really going to throw money at this given all the real world gambling options they have available and do so just for a cosmetic virtual item?

Seriously people get a grip.

Most people gamble:

for a bit of excitement
as part of a social activity
to win money
to distract themselves from the pressures of work and family
for a safe place to go out of the house.

Taken from http://www.responsiblegambling.vic.gov.au/getting-help/signs-of-a-problem/why-do-i-gamble

4 out of 5 of those reasons aren't about making money. 3 of them apply to crown crates.

This is a seriously bad attempt to rationalize making the bad choice to gamble if you have a control problems with it.

for a bit of excitement - there are a multitude of other ways to get a bit of excitement
as part of a a social activity - there are a multitude of other social activities
to distract themselves from the pressures of work and family - there are a multitude of other ways to relieve life pressures
a safe place to go out of the house - there are a multitude of other safe places to go to get out of the house

That leaves us with one, 'to win money', which is unique to gambling and has nothing to do with this crown store item.

If you have impulse issues or lack of self control then then it is your responsibility to seek help. However, is not right to deprive those that do have self control of activities/services/products because some lack self control.

Seriously people you are born with FREE WILL to make CHOICES and you need to stop looking for scapegoats for your personal choices and accept the consequences of these choices or seek help in making better ones.

People never should have to seek gambling help from playing an rpg. That is just wrong. It doesn't belong. People won't buy these for the consumables. RPers want the cosmetics. The consumables would have to be p2w to be desirable as we can craft them easily.

JimT722 wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Wolfchild07 wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

deadlychaos1991 wrote: »

Look I get the whole rng crown crate thing but it's just bad business practice. It is taking advantage over people who have a gambling addiction. Not saying it's Zos's responsibility to prevent or cure the addiction but it's still a low blow. People already said they would have been WILLING to buy the types of items they offer outright on the crown store. Which would have made them plenty of money by itself. I for one would have purchased a storm mount or two. But now, not a single penny is going toward that. They're turning away purchasing customers to appeal to gamblers. Making 0 money of people who don't gamble, and a *** ton off people who do. It's not illegal nor will it make me leave the game, it's just low.

I find this argument about gambling addiction to also be a reach and almost as bad as the predatory business practice accusation.

Are people with gambling addictions really going to throw money at this given all the real world gambling options they have available and do so just for a cosmetic virtual item?

Seriously people get a grip.

Most people gamble:

for a bit of excitement
as part of a social activity
to win money
to distract themselves from the pressures of work and family
for a safe place to go out of the house.

Taken from http://www.responsiblegambling.vic.gov.au/getting-help/signs-of-a-problem/why-do-i-gamble

4 out of 5 of those reasons aren't about making money. 3 of them apply to crown crates.

This is a seriously bad attempt to rationalize making the bad choice to gamble if you have a control problems with it.

for a bit of excitement - there are a multitude of other ways to get a bit of excitement
as part of a a social activity - there are a multitude of other social activities
to distract themselves from the pressures of work and family - there are a multitude of other ways to relieve life pressures
a safe place to go out of the house - there are a multitude of other safe places to go to get out of the house

That leaves us with one, 'to win money', which is unique to gambling and has nothing to do with this crown store item.

If you have impulse issues or lack of self control then then it is your responsibility to seek help. However, is not right to deprive those that do have self control of activities/services/products because some lack self control.

Seriously people you are born with FREE WILL to make CHOICES and you need to stop looking for scapegoats for your personal choices and accept the consequences of these choices or seek help in making better ones.

People never should have to seek gambling help from playing an rpg. That is just wrong. It doesn't belong. People won't buy these for the consumables. RPers want the cosmetics. The consumables would have to be p2w to be desirable as we can craft them easily.

Agreed. I don't think you read the entire thread. The arguments against this crown store item primarily revolve around two themes:

1) It would be bad for those with gambling addictions
2) It is a predatory business practice

My argument is that the crown store items are not gambling. Gambling addicts gamble to win money. The crown crates provide purely cosmetic virtual items (not money) and you are in fact losing real money every single time.
Edit: Now if these items were saleable on the Internet like what happened with Everquest/Ebay fiasco that would be another matter as then the items would have potential monetary value.

As for the predatory business practice claim it fails to even come close to the definition. If it did then every business in the world is practicing it. Everything about the item is stated upfront and in detail (hell there isn't even any fine print). You have the free will to make the choice to purchase or not(hell there are not even salespeople trying to pitch it).

I personally will not buy them but I certainly wouldn't want to see others deprived of that choice.

If there are some that have impulse or self-control issues over an RNG chance at some cosmetic items then it is your responsibility to seek professional help and not expect those of us that have self-control to be punished or deprived of said choice.

Sureshawt wrote: »

JimT722 wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Wolfchild07 wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

deadlychaos1991 wrote: »

Look I get the whole rng crown crate thing but it's just bad business practice. It is taking advantage over people who have a gambling addiction. Not saying it's Zos's responsibility to prevent or cure the addiction but it's still a low blow. People already said they would have been WILLING to buy the types of items they offer outright on the crown store. Which would have made them plenty of money by itself. I for one would have purchased a storm mount or two. But now, not a single penny is going toward that. They're turning away purchasing customers to appeal to gamblers. Making 0 money of people who don't gamble, and a *** ton off people who do. It's not illegal nor will it make me leave the game, it's just low.

I find this argument about gambling addiction to also be a reach and almost as bad as the predatory business practice accusation.

Are people with gambling addictions really going to throw money at this given all the real world gambling options they have available and do so just for a cosmetic virtual item?

Seriously people get a grip.

Most people gamble:

for a bit of excitement
as part of a social activity
to win money
to distract themselves from the pressures of work and family
for a safe place to go out of the house.

Taken from http://www.responsiblegambling.vic.gov.au/getting-help/signs-of-a-problem/why-do-i-gamble

4 out of 5 of those reasons aren't about making money. 3 of them apply to crown crates.

This is a seriously bad attempt to rationalize making the bad choice to gamble if you have a control problems with it.

for a bit of excitement - there are a multitude of other ways to get a bit of excitement
as part of a a social activity - there are a multitude of other social activities
to distract themselves from the pressures of work and family - there are a multitude of other ways to relieve life pressures
a safe place to go out of the house - there are a multitude of other safe places to go to get out of the house

That leaves us with one, 'to win money', which is unique to gambling and has nothing to do with this crown store item.

If you have impulse issues or lack of self control then then it is your responsibility to seek help. However, is not right to deprive those that do have self control of activities/services/products because some lack self control.

Seriously people you are born with FREE WILL to make CHOICES and you need to stop looking for scapegoats for your personal choices and accept the consequences of these choices or seek help in making better ones.

People never should have to seek gambling help from playing an rpg. That is just wrong. It doesn't belong. People won't buy these for the consumables. RPers want the cosmetics. The consumables would have to be p2w to be desirable as we can craft them easily.

Agreed. I don't think you read the entire thread. The arguments against this crown store item primarily revolve around two themes:

1) It would be bad for those with gambling addictions
2) It is a predatory business practice

My argument is that the crown store items are not gambling. Gambling addicts gamble to win money. The crown crates provide purely cosmetic virtual items (not money) and you are in fact losing real money every single time.
Edit: Now if these items were saleable on the Internet like what happened with Everquest/Ebay fiasco that would be another matter as then the items would have potential monetary value.

As for the predatory business practice claim it fails to even come close to the definition. If it did then every business in the world is practicing it. Everything about the item is stated upfront and in detail (hell there isn't even any fine print). You have the free will to make the choice to purchase or not(hell there are not even salespeople trying to pitch it).

I personally will not buy them but I certainly wouldn't want to see others deprived of that choice.

If there are some that have impulse or self-control issues over an RNG chance at some cosmetic items then it is your responsibility to seek professional help and not expect those of us that do to be punished or deprived of said choice.

This system is not wanted. I doubt a single person would complain if everything was available for purchase. As for every business does it I don't know where you shop then. When I buy a tv I know exactly what's in the box.

Just because you don't win money it's still a gamble. MMO's have people addicted to virtual fluff. People will fall into their trap as its being baited with items the community has desired. The crown gem is supposed to reassure you that eventually there will be a payout. It is predatory by design.

I have read all arguments, but none have convinced me this belongs in a game.

JimT722 wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

JimT722 wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Wolfchild07 wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

deadlychaos1991 wrote: »

Look I get the whole rng crown crate thing but it's just bad business practice. It is taking advantage over people who have a gambling addiction. Not saying it's Zos's responsibility to prevent or cure the addiction but it's still a low blow. People already said they would have been WILLING to buy the types of items they offer outright on the crown store. Which would have made them plenty of money by itself. I for one would have purchased a storm mount or two. But now, not a single penny is going toward that. They're turning away purchasing customers to appeal to gamblers. Making 0 money of people who don't gamble, and a *** ton off people who do. It's not illegal nor will it make me leave the game, it's just low.

I find this argument about gambling addiction to also be a reach and almost as bad as the predatory business practice accusation.

Are people with gambling addictions really going to throw money at this given all the real world gambling options they have available and do so just for a cosmetic virtual item?

Seriously people get a grip.

Most people gamble:

for a bit of excitement
as part of a social activity
to win money
to distract themselves from the pressures of work and family
for a safe place to go out of the house.

Taken from http://www.responsiblegambling.vic.gov.au/getting-help/signs-of-a-problem/why-do-i-gamble

4 out of 5 of those reasons aren't about making money. 3 of them apply to crown crates.

This is a seriously bad attempt to rationalize making the bad choice to gamble if you have a control problems with it.

for a bit of excitement - there are a multitude of other ways to get a bit of excitement
as part of a a social activity - there are a multitude of other social activities
to distract themselves from the pressures of work and family - there are a multitude of other ways to relieve life pressures
a safe place to go out of the house - there are a multitude of other safe places to go to get out of the house

That leaves us with one, 'to win money', which is unique to gambling and has nothing to do with this crown store item.

If you have impulse issues or lack of self control then then it is your responsibility to seek help. However, is not right to deprive those that do have self control of activities/services/products because some lack self control.

Seriously people you are born with FREE WILL to make CHOICES and you need to stop looking for scapegoats for your personal choices and accept the consequences of these choices or seek help in making better ones.

People never should have to seek gambling help from playing an rpg. That is just wrong. It doesn't belong. People won't buy these for the consumables. RPers want the cosmetics. The consumables would have to be p2w to be desirable as we can craft them easily.

Agreed. I don't think you read the entire thread. The arguments against this crown store item primarily revolve around two themes:

1) It would be bad for those with gambling addictions
2) It is a predatory business practice

My argument is that the crown store items are not gambling. Gambling addicts gamble to win money. The crown crates provide purely cosmetic virtual items (not money) and you are in fact losing real money every single time.
Edit: Now if these items were saleable on the Internet like what happened with Everquest/Ebay fiasco that would be another matter as then the items would have potential monetary value.

As for the predatory business practice claim it fails to even come close to the definition. If it did then every business in the world is practicing it. Everything about the item is stated upfront and in detail (hell there isn't even any fine print). You have the free will to make the choice to purchase or not(hell there are not even salespeople trying to pitch it).

I personally will not buy them but I certainly wouldn't want to see others deprived of that choice.

If there are some that have impulse or self-control issues over an RNG chance at some cosmetic items then it is your responsibility to seek professional help and not expect those of us that do to be punished or deprived of said choice.

This system is not wanted.

MMO's have people addicted to virtual fluff. People will fall into their trap as its being baited with items the community has desired.

These two statements alone show that you are in denial and not willing to accept personal responsibility for having free will and choices.

The system is obviously wanted by the company and many other players so your statement shows you think only your OPINION and those that share it is important.

Claiming that an MMO causes addiction shows a lack of personal responsibility.

The truth is that all addictions have their roots in people trying to fill an empty hole in their lives with 'fluff'. They would be better served by learning on how to fill the hole with meaningful things.

I don't expect my logical reasoning to reach everyone as denial and addictions generally go hand in hand.

Some people see only what they want to see or hear only what they want to hear. These are usually the same people that refuse to take personal responsibility for their choices in life or heed the lessons of self-control or self-discipline. The really sad ones seem to think the answer is to remove the choices from everyone so they don't ever have to learn self-control or self-discipline.

JimT722 wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

JimT722 wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

JimT722 wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Wolfchild07 wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

deadlychaos1991 wrote: »

Look I get the whole rng crown crate thing but it's just bad business practice. It is taking advantage over people who have a gambling addiction. Not saying it's Zos's responsibility to prevent or cure the addiction but it's still a low blow. People already said they would have been WILLING to buy the types of items they offer outright on the crown store. Which would have made them plenty of money by itself. I for one would have purchased a storm mount or two. But now, not a single penny is going toward that. They're turning away purchasing customers to appeal to gamblers. Making 0 money of people who don't gamble, and a *** ton off people who do. It's not illegal nor will it make me leave the game, it's just low.

I find this argument about gambling addiction to also be a reach and almost as bad as the predatory business practice accusation.

Are people with gambling addictions really going to throw money at this given all the real world gambling options they have available and do so just for a cosmetic virtual item?

Seriously people get a grip.

Most people gamble:

for a bit of excitement
as part of a social activity
to win money
to distract themselves from the pressures of work and family
for a safe place to go out of the house.

Taken from http://www.responsiblegambling.vic.gov.au/getting-help/signs-of-a-problem/why-do-i-gamble

4 out of 5 of those reasons aren't about making money. 3 of them apply to crown crates.

This is a seriously bad attempt to rationalize making the bad choice to gamble if you have a control problems with it.

for a bit of excitement - there are a multitude of other ways to get a bit of excitement
as part of a a social activity - there are a multitude of other social activities
to distract themselves from the pressures of work and family - there are a multitude of other ways to relieve life pressures
a safe place to go out of the house - there are a multitude of other safe places to go to get out of the house

That leaves us with one, 'to win money', which is unique to gambling and has nothing to do with this crown store item.

If you have impulse issues or lack of self control then then it is your responsibility to seek help. However, is not right to deprive those that do have self control of activities/services/products because some lack self control.

Seriously people you are born with FREE WILL to make CHOICES and you need to stop looking for scapegoats for your personal choices and accept the consequences of these choices or seek help in making better ones.

People never should have to seek gambling help from playing an rpg. That is just wrong. It doesn't belong. People won't buy these for the consumables. RPers want the cosmetics. The consumables would have to be p2w to be desirable as we can craft them easily.

Agreed. I don't think you read the entire thread. The arguments against this crown store item primarily revolve around two themes:

1) It would be bad for those with gambling addictions
2) It is a predatory business practice

My argument is that the crown store items are not gambling. Gambling addicts gamble to win money. The crown crates provide purely cosmetic virtual items (not money) and you are in fact losing real money every single time.
Edit: Now if these items were saleable on the Internet like what happened with Everquest/Ebay fiasco that would be another matter as then the items would have potential monetary value.

As for the predatory business practice claim it fails to even come close to the definition. If it did then every business in the world is practicing it. Everything about the item is stated upfront and in detail (hell there isn't even any fine print). You have the free will to make the choice to purchase or not(hell there are not even salespeople trying to pitch it).

I personally will not buy them but I certainly wouldn't want to see others deprived of that choice.

If there are some that have impulse or self-control issues over an RNG chance at some cosmetic items then it is your responsibility to seek professional help and not expect those of us that do to be punished or deprived of said choice.

This system is not wanted.

MMO's have people addicted to virtual fluff. People will fall into their trap as its being baited with items the community has desired.

These two statements alone show that you are in denial and not willing to accept personal responsibility for having free will and choices.

The system is obviously wanted by the company and many other players so your statement shows you think only your OPINION and those that share it is important.

Claiming that an MMO causes addiction shows a lack of personal responsibility.

You should take a deep look at yourself and realize that all addictions have their roots in people trying to fill an empty hole in their lives with 'fluff'.

I don't expect my logical reasoning to reach everyone as denial and addictions generally go hand in hand.

Some people see only what they want to see or hear only what they want to hear. These are usually the same people that refuse to take personal responsibility for their choices in life or heed the lessons of self-control or self-discipline. The really sad ones seem to think the answer is to remove the choices from everyone so they don't ever have to learn self-control or self-discipline.

There is a massive 100+ page thread with a poll showing 2/3 of voters are against it. Most supportive posts include the words "I wouldn't buy it myself." Yeah, I'm the one in denial.

When I go to a casino I know I would be gambling. If this was included at launch I wouldn't be so against it. I care about the game and I have never seen a game made better by rng loot crates.

You made an absolutist statement that the 'System is not wanted' period.

I'll assume for a moment that this poll is representative of the player population. According to this poll there are 1/3 of the people for it . Also the company that provides the services wants it but I guess what they want is also irrelevant.

On the massive official thread there is an actual rational discussion about ways to improve it.

The gambling comparison has already been thoroughly debunked.

Did you know that when you got to a casino you can CHOOSE to not gamble? Did you know that some people actually just go there to watch?

Did you know that you have a CHOICE to not buy crown crates?

Did you know that you do not have a right to impose your views/shortcomings on others even assuming you are the majority?

So yeah...you are in denial ...some people you just can't reach.

ZOS just can't win no matter what lol. They put up a mount for 4k crowns and all the forums are ablaze with hate. Had these mounts gone to crownstore they would easily go for that much or more and thread after thread would bash ZOS for it.

ESO+ members have a cache of crowns with nothing really to spend it on. For a long while there was no real incentive for subbing other than the small % increase and when the bag was announced another storm for ZOS. Now that people with extra crowns have something to spend it on again the rain of bullets over ZOS.

As for addiction to gambling? Pfffft! I do not see anyone losing their shirt or having their fingers broken over loot crates. Please. That's like comparing a Medical Marijuana patient to a Heroine addict. Worlds apart. Worlds.

jaburns wrote: »

Wolfchild07 wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

Wolfchild07 wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

deadlychaos1991 wrote: »

Look I get the whole rng crown crate thing but it's just bad business practice. It is taking advantage over people who have a gambling addiction. Not saying it's Zos's responsibility to prevent or cure the addiction but it's still a low blow. People already said they would have been WILLING to buy the types of items they offer outright on the crown store. Which would have made them plenty of money by itself. I for one would have purchased a storm mount or two. But now, not a single penny is going toward that. They're turning away purchasing customers to appeal to gamblers. Making 0 money of people who don't gamble, and a *** ton off people who do. It's not illegal nor will it make me leave the game, it's just low.

I find this argument about gambling addiction to also be a reach and almost as bad as the predatory business practice accusation.

Are people with gambling addictions really going to throw money at this given all the real world gambling options they have available and do so just for a cosmetic virtual item?

Seriously people get a grip.

Most people gamble:

for a bit of excitement
as part of a social activity
to win money
to distract themselves from the pressures of work and family
for a safe place to go out of the house.

Taken from http://www.responsiblegambling.vic.gov.au/getting-help/signs-of-a-problem/why-do-i-gamble

4 out of 5 of those reasons aren't about making money. 3 of them apply to crown crates.

This is a seriously bad attempt to rationalize making the bad choice to gamble if you have self-control problems with it.

for a bit of excitement - there are a multitude of other ways to get a bit of excitement
as part of a a social activity - there are a multitude of other social activities
to distract themselves from the pressures of work and family - there are a multitude of other ways to relieve life pressures
a safe place to go out of the house - there are a multitude of other safe places to go to get out of the house

That leaves us with one, 'to win money', which is unique to gambling and has nothing to do with this crown store item.

If you have impulse issues or lack of self-control then then it is your responsibility to seek help. However, is not right to deprive those that do have self control of activities/services/products because some lack self-control.

Seriously people, you are born with FREE WILL to make CHOICES and you need to stop looking for scapegoats for your personal choices and accept the consequences of these choices or seek help in making better ones.

When someone is addicted to something, the multitudes of other options don't exist to them.

Responsibility falls on more than just the consumer.

responsibility
rɪˌspɒnsɪˈbɪlɪti/Submit
noun
1.
the state or fact of having a duty to deal with something or of having control over someone.
"women bear children and take responsibility for childcare"
synonyms: authority, control, power, leadership, management, influence; duty
"we train those staff who show an aptitude for managerial responsibility"
2.
the state or fact of being accountable or to blame for something.
"the group has claimed responsibility for a string of murders"
synonyms: blame, fault, guilt, culpability, blameworthiness, liability
"the organization denied responsibility for the bomb attack at the airport"

...and yet McDonald's and ABC Liquors still exists. So weird... corporations and businesses still aren't held accountable for individual's irresponsibility...? ZoS's intent is to put out a product that people can enjoy AND they need to make a profit. People's addictions don't come into play in the corporate strategy. But, I assure you... there isn't an evil CEO sitting at the end of a long, marble desk with his fingertips touching... laughing maniacally while he's getting people addicted to some dinky crown boxes.

"MWHAHAHAH!!! My Master Scheme has come to fruition! I've got them addicted to useless crown boxes that make up less than .05% of the time and energy we've invested into this game. All the graphics, voice acting, story line, and mechanics mean NOTHING! We just want them to get addicted to these here crown boxes!!!"

I still think crown boxes are a bad idea... because RNG in this game is horrible. But, to blame personal addictions or irresponsible behaviors on a corporation instead of addressing individual issues is insane. Take some responsibility for your actions, people. I play this game (and subscribe to it) because I enjoy a step away from reality and I like to relax. Do I blame Zenimax that I'm wasting $15 a month on a video game instead of investing in a 401K that will allot me a 20% return for future dividends? Nah... I'm just enjoying a video game.

Lmao this is the best post I've ever read. Period.

I still dislike the idea of the rng boxes because of what it does to MMO's but it's not a company's issue to make sure someone isn't feeding into their own addiction.

STEVIL wrote: »

JimT722 wrote: »

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

JimT722 wrote: »

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

JimT722 wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

ZOS hired the man man who created the neverwinter store to run the crown store.

Be scared

That's great! I installed neverwinter, played 5 minutes, then uninstalled it and never thought about playing again.

deadlychaos1991 wrote: »

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

ragespell wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

The outrage is people who want the items but dont want to use the crates.

The argument about gambling addiction is a vit of a stretch because if this triggers that, you are still within addiction and afe going to be gambling on real life things. If tou are in recovery, you will be not drawn into it as you know yourself.

Just be honest and say you want whats there in another way instead of creating some far reaching social issue.

Entitlement is real, if you want whats in there you buy them. If its against your personal ethics to gamble for things, you dont get them.

And you are wrong. It's not buying.
If you buy bread, you expect that in exchange for you money you will have your bread.

Here ZOS is trying to sell you bread at ten times or more its value, because 9 times out of 10 your money will buy you nothing.

As anyone of you of the pro camp, have ever seen other games with crates? Do you really think they are elegant and well designed?

Don't like the crates then don't buy the crates it's that simple.

Exactly the mentality that ruined so many good MMO's. Most valuable crown store items will become locked behind these gates, meaning only hard gamblers will be paying money for them. More money generated from that = devs making more things locked behind rng = more money being spent on crown crate development than actual dlc = less subscribers. It's one of the big contributing factors to what kills MMO's.

Exactly. Definitely kills them for me.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

People should really start taking responsibility for their own actions instead of blaming others for their problems. If someone chooses to blow all their money on these crates how is that ZOS's fault? How about growing up and getting help instead of blaming others.

If a casino started setting up slot machines in your house you'd be pissed. Addictive tendencies tend to be passed down in families. I will just avoid such an environment as I am aware of this and would get addicted if I started down that path.

That casino is not forcing me to spend my money on the slot machines though. If I had started spending all my money on the machines then sure I could be pissed at the casino all I wanted but in reality it would be my fault for spending my money on them.

I come from a family with massive addiction problems. I understand the tendency. However many don't and could fall victim. The way the system is designed, the NPC, and everything else about it seems to target addicts. They are adding gambling to a place that's never had them.

What ZOS is doing is not illegal. I would do the same. It's easy money.

I agree with you. It is effective and that's why it is sweeping the gaming industry. That doesn't mean we have to respect a company that does it. If I had known 2.5 years ago I wouldn't have supported them and I have already paid a lot of money in support.

Well, from my POV supporting games which do not do THAT WHICH I DISLIKE SO MUCH for 2.5 years and then cutting that support if they choose to start doing THAT WHICH I DISLIKE SO MUCH is much much better as an incentive than to just never support them.

I mean if i were one who never signed up payed money or played ESO they would never know it was because that one day years down the road they might do something i feel strongly opposed to... they would just think i didn't game these games - if they thought of me at all.

I believe in supporting products i like so that there is incentive to get more of them.

BTW a general question here:

For those who are opposed to the crates over "gambling" do you in game belong to, sell in or buy from any guilds which have VOLUNTARY raffles? Seems to me many guilds have voluntary raffles for earning money to get guild traders. Seems to me many others have involuntary raffles.

Do those so opposed to crown crates also boycott all those guilds?
If you buy from guild traders is it only after you know the guild supplying it isn't a raffle-enabled guild?

I do believe in supporting games, in fact I want to. Am I overreacting. A little I'm sure. Having seen this happen to games I've played before it's not unreasonable to lose respect for a company.

By definition they are gambling. They are a risk with a chance of a desired outcome. In a game I'm fine with it as long as it's not tied to actual money. So if guilds have an optional lottery, that is fine.

I can't look forward and see a positive outcome from this. I was looking forward to housing. How can I with these coming. Housing is going to include a lot of cosmetic options so you can expect the boxes will be involved.