Very sad to see the crown crates are gonna exploit people with gambling issues!

Elsonso · September 2016

Sharee wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

When you lose at a casino, you gain nothing. With the crown crates, you always gain something, only the value of what you get varies from case to case.

This is what people most misunderstand about the Crown Store. Players actually gain nothing of value from anything they purchase in the Crown Store, directly or through Crown Crates. Nothing. They get a bit of enjoyment that they cannot take with them. None of us even own what we buy in the Crown Store. We put in real currency and get nothing but in-the-moment entertainment out. That is if we are lucky. I am not sure what entertainment value the Crown potions and elixirs provide for the money spent.

That you do not see any value in the items found in the crown store does not mean nobody does. That's just you projecting your subjective feelings on the entire community.

That is not it. When we talk about value, we have to compare apples to apples. When we spend real currency on something and receive a virtual product in return, one that we do not actually retain ownersrhip of, we have traded real currency for something that has no real value. It does not matter what value you or I place on it, any value we place on it is as virtual as the item we purchased. The Crowns have no more real value than the costume they were used to 'purchase'.

DaveMoeDee · September 2016

This is also why I boo when they do lottery nonsense at Celtics games. Lotteries and casinos live off of exploitation.

Evergnar · September 2016

Vaoh wrote: »

So you all know:

DROP RATES ON THE RARE ITEMS IN THESE GAMBLE CRATES, SUCH AS ATRONACH MOUNTS, ARE EXTREMELY LOW!

YOU WILL NOT GET WHAT YOU WANT UNTIL YOU FORK OVER UPWARDS OF $200-$300 AND EVEN THEN YOU MAY NOT GET ONE!

DO NOT BUY THESE CRATES! LET ZOS KNOW THAT THE SHEER DROP RATES ON THESE MOUNTS ARE UNACCEPTABLE!

You thought $40 mounts were bad?

3000 Crowns too much?

Well try 30000 Crowns for a single mount if you're lucky. It is that bad. Do not support ZOS here people! Please don't let ZOS implement these Crown Crates in the scummy way they plan to!

This feature in itself is bad for ESO, yet can still be dealt with.

It is that ZOS has chosen to stop placing mounts and other cool stuff on the Crown Store for 2000-3000 Crowns, and instead put it in these Crates with a 1% drop rate that is disgusting. You now need to spend upwards of 20K Crowns for a single cool vanity item.

If we band together we may stop ZOS from heading the wrong route and slowly killing ESO!

#SaveESO

I will let them know through canceling my sub and moving on from this game. Seen this before and unfortunately this is where the road ends for me.

Rykmaar · September 2016

I'm quite saddened by the RNG box system.

As others have said, this is simply predatory whale hunting. I don't really have other words to describe it other than what's been said for the last few months.

I will say that I've played other MMOs that went this route and all of them got worse, not better. Hell, STO has been doing this for ages, and as scummy as that is over there, you at least get more value per crate.

ZoS is FORCING, yes FORCING people to fork over hundreds of dollars for a cosmetic item. They went against original expectations as far as what is offered in the crates, they have abysmally low reward rates, and only serve to milk the weakest among us.

I'm personally ashamed that the TES franchise is stooping to this level.

Tonnopesce · September 2016

Since this has become a pure gambling sistem ZOS need to take a severe position to avoid that certain players abuse the sistem, put a montly limit on how many crates a player can buy.
I know that is a disgusting thing business wise but if we consider zos as an ethic company they HAVE to do something about it.

My two crowns

yodased · September 2016

I am interested in the monetary value being tossed out here. You can't extrapolate out how much anything will cost as there is a chance, however low that you can spend 400 crowns and get every rare item.

There is also a chance you can spend $10,000 and not get the item you want, so where does the 200 or 400 or 500 figure come from?

Also, if you are even considering spending $500 within a game to get a thing to ride, seek help.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN · September 2016

Wolfchild07 wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

While I am not really happy with how these crates are implemented at the moment I don't see how this is their fault?

You buy cigarettes, tobacco companies fault?
You buy alcohol, pub's fault?
You buy crown crates, ZOS' fault?

No my friend, that is not how life works. If people have gambling issues, they need to get help. You adapt to the world, not the world to you.

Gambling issues? Get help! It's YOUR problem.

Would you sell drugs to an addict?
Would you sell alcohol to an alcoholic?
Would you sell a gun to someone who is suicidal?

It's EVERYONE'S problem. There's a thing called responsibility.
But most people these days are of the mindset that "It will never happen to me or anyone I know, so who cares".

Well if I am being completely honest I would sell drugs and alcohol to an addict because that is some easy money right there and constant income for me if I continue to aid them in their addiction. They are happy because they get drugs and alcohol and I am happy because I get money. It's really a win/win situation. Then I can use my profit to buy more crown crates

CasNation · September 2016

yodased wrote: »

I am interested in the monetary value being tossed out here. You can't extrapolate out how much anything will cost as there is a chance, however low that you can spend 400 crowns and get every rare item.

There is also a chance you can spend $10,000 and not get the item you want, so where does the 200 or 400 or 500 figure come from?

Also, if you are even considering spending $500 within a game to get a thing to ride, seek help.

I think the values being tossed out here are making a few assumptions to get those values:

- you don't get the exact item you want from opening the crates in the first place
- you are using the gems you acquire from getting duplicates to purchase the item you want
- for the best case scenario, you already own all of the possible items that you can duplicate, so every cosmetic item you get, you get gems instead

Then, based on the price of the box and the drop rates that people have rough calculations for (I think many areasons considering 1 cosmetic per box reasonable atm) you can convert the crown value you spend on the crates to the value you would need to "buy" 400 gems.

From there you can tweak variables to find different scenarios and estimate cost based on those predictions.

STEVIL · September 2016

I think that if people with gambling problems choose to log on to websites and gamble - then ESO crown crates will be WAY WAY WAY down on where they spend their money given the world of online sports fantasy sites and everything else. i can buy lottery tickets online.

So if this is the strongest argument against those crates - great job ZOS. its a winner.

SilentFox22 · September 2016

Gambling is fun! I probably wouldn't buy these crates with such low RNG though. The crown price of them should reflect the % chance of them containing specialty or rare items. Otherwise, those better be some damn good potions at least, maybe even exp bonus pots. lol

Games need to make $ to keep releasing content. So if ZoS can figure out how to make this crown box thing work, I support it.

(edit: realized I posted this in wrong thread.)

FLuFFyxMuFFiN · September 2016

People should really start taking responsibility for their own actions instead of blaming others for their problems. If someone chooses to blow all their money on these crates how is that ZOS's fault? How about growing up and getting help instead of blaming others.

Sigma957 · September 2016

Well I just played around and got 10 boxes and while mostly were c

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

People should really start taking responsibility for their own actions instead of blaming others for their problems. If someone chooses to blow all their money on these crates how is that ZOS's fault? How about growing up and getting help instead of blaming others.

Have to agree with you, its all too easy to blame some one else for your own mistakes. I might have a go at theses crates as I have a lot of crowns but I'm not going to blow a whole pay check on them.

STEVIL · September 2016

I likely wont buy these crstes.
But i did get my football picks in.

KingYogi415 · September 2016

ZOS hired the man man who created the neverwinter store to run the crown store.

Be scared

LrdRahvin · September 2016

Maotti wrote: »

I honestly though Zos would be better then this.

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahah...

Hohohohohahahahahahahahahaha...

Oh wait, I'm sorry, you were serious, weren't you?

Sharee · September 2016

lordrichter wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

When you lose at a casino, you gain nothing. With the crown crates, you always gain something, only the value of what you get varies from case to case.

This is what people most misunderstand about the Crown Store. Players actually gain nothing of value from anything they purchase in the Crown Store, directly or through Crown Crates. Nothing. They get a bit of enjoyment that they cannot take with them. None of us even own what we buy in the Crown Store. We put in real currency and get nothing but in-the-moment entertainment out. That is if we are lucky. I am not sure what entertainment value the Crown potions and elixirs provide for the money spent.

That you do not see any value in the items found in the crown store does not mean nobody does. That's just you projecting your subjective feelings on the entire community.

That is not it. When we talk about value, we have to compare apples to apples. When we spend real currency on something and receive a virtual product in return, one that we do not actually retain ownersrhip of, we have traded real currency for something that has no real value. It does not matter what value you or I place on it, any value we place on it is as virtual as the item we purchased. The Crowns have no more real value than the costume they were used to 'purchase'.

Value is entirely subjective. Whether something is valuable to me or not depends on my perception of it, and nothing else. Even the "real currency" you paid has value only because the people involved in the exchange believe it does.

And value has nothing to do with ownership either. If i rent a car, i do not own it, but it is still valuable to me because i can drive somewhere instead of having to walk.

Daraxina · September 2016

Personally, I don't agree with gambling crates to win something that you absolutely can't get any other way.

However - I believe the crown store should offer the rare mounts/pets etc for a limited time - 4-7 days and then once you missed your chance - THEN Zos should stick it in the loot crate.

A bit like Destiny - where if you missed your chance to get a certain seasonal emote, you can always try their version of a gambling crate to see if you can win it that way. Some rare, some ordinary.
Either way, you get an emote that isn't available anymore - just maybe not the one you wanted, but that's the gamble.

The girlfriend purchased the Daedric Goat on my account when she first got the game, (we didn't know you could play if only one of you had PS+) when she discovered she could have her own account, she tried to buy the goat to find it was limited and gone.

The gambling crate could be a way to win her beloved possessed goat back, if the drop rates were reasonable.

It would be extra nice if you could "Trade" a gambling crate item for a limited time to another player in exchange.
Might mean new trade guilds pop up.

Woeler · September 2016

Faulgor wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

No, it's not. It becomes everyones problem when we ban X because some people refuse to get professional help. Which is exactly what this topic is advocating. It's not eliminating the cause of the problem, it's just trying to hide the symptoms. It's running away, nothing more.

But I suppose with a certain mindset you don't feel that the suffering of others is your problem, too.

Correct, and that mindset has a name, it's called realism. I have no need to boost my moral ego on the internet by pretending I care about random strangers.

Kas · September 2016

Evergnar wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

So you all know:

DROP RATES ON THE RARE ITEMS IN THESE GAMBLE CRATES, SUCH AS ATRONACH MOUNTS, ARE EXTREMELY LOW!

YOU WILL NOT GET WHAT YOU WANT UNTIL YOU FORK OVER UPWARDS OF $200-$300 AND EVEN THEN YOU MAY NOT GET ONE!

DO NOT BUY THESE CRATES! LET ZOS KNOW THAT THE SHEER DROP RATES ON THESE MOUNTS ARE UNACCEPTABLE!

You thought $40 mounts were bad?

3000 Crowns too much?

Well try 30000 Crowns for a single mount if you're lucky. It is that bad. Do not support ZOS here people! Please don't let ZOS implement these Crown Crates in the scummy way they plan to!

This feature in itself is bad for ESO, yet can still be dealt with.

It is that ZOS has chosen to stop placing mounts and other cool stuff on the Crown Store for 2000-3000 Crowns, and instead put it in these Crates with a 1% drop rate that is disgusting. You now need to spend upwards of 20K Crowns for a single cool vanity item.

If we band together we may stop ZOS from heading the wrong route and slowly killing ESO!

#SaveESO

I will let them know through canceling my sub and moving on from this game. Seen this before and unfortunately this is where the road ends for me.

i'll keep it as always: spend crowns only on race changes. still got many leftover from being subbed and never buying extra crowns. just pretend no such mounts existed and be done with it. I see absolutely no reason to stop playing just because some people can now spend overly much money on *** i don't want

deadlychaos1991 · September 2016

It's not ZOS responsibility to make sure gamblers are taken care of. That's their own damn problem. Just like it's not marlboros fault that you can't control your own decisions.

That being said I'm still against the idea. I've seen many a game head down the rng loot box road and its not pretty. The reason why the suck is that they DO appeal to people who like to gamble. Which will turn some people away from the game simply because they don't agree with the business decision. Secondly, and more importantly people who are logical and level headed won't buy them. And potential money that they could have made for logical players buying a guaranteed 6k mount rather than try for a rng chance at one, is a complete loss. Which means eventually, ONLY gamblers will be paying for the game, and as previously stated, if only gamblers are paying their wallets dry, the new content in the game will not be 'murkmire' or 'clockwork city' or 'arenas and battlegrounds', it'll be new crown store crate exclusives, once every month.

You can argue all day on whether it's morally correct or not but the bottom line is it's not good for the game. It never has been for ANY MMO and eso is no exception.

Asardes · September 2016

In the last year I have spent the fabulos sum of ... 4K crowns, 2.5K for IC, 1.5K for SotH. Still have 1.6K left. I have 100 CP in Stingy though

LycanNaryko · September 2016

The only way i would buy them is, if i get a fixed amount of crown gems for buying a crate.

Lets say i buy one crate 400 crowns - i get fixed 10 crown gems
I buy a packacke of 5 crates for 2000 crowns - i get 70 crown gems
I buy a package of 15 crown crates for 6000 crowns - i get 280 crown gems

These values are guaranteed - can be tweaked though to some extend.

Certain Items can be tweaked by price - like the frostmar cost 150 crown gems, the mind shriven horse 130 or something like that.

Then i could see myself buy some other than that i will never buy them.

Asardes · September 2016

Who needs crown gems when you can buy grand soul gems for ~40 gold a piece on the guild store?

ragespell · September 2016

yodased wrote: »

The outrage is people who want the items but dont want to use the crates.

The argument about gambling addiction is a vit of a stretch because if this triggers that, you are still within addiction and afe going to be gambling on real life things. If tou are in recovery, you will be not drawn into it as you know yourself.

Just be honest and say you want whats there in another way instead of creating some far reaching social issue.

Entitlement is real, if you want whats in there you buy them. If its against your personal ethics to gamble for things, you dont get them.

And you are wrong. It's not buying.
If you buy bread, you expect that in exchange for you money you will have your bread.

Here ZOS is trying to sell you bread at ten times or more its value, because 9 times out of 10 your money will buy you nothing.

As anyone of you of the pro camp, have ever seen other games with crates? Do you really think they are elegant and well designed?

jcasini222ub17_ESO · September 2016

@Sharee I feel like Pacrooti is more of a moonshiner than distillery owner

FLuFFyxMuFFiN · September 2016

ragespell wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

The outrage is people who want the items but dont want to use the crates.

The argument about gambling addiction is a vit of a stretch because if this triggers that, you are still within addiction and afe going to be gambling on real life things. If tou are in recovery, you will be not drawn into it as you know yourself.

Just be honest and say you want whats there in another way instead of creating some far reaching social issue.

Entitlement is real, if you want whats in there you buy them. If its against your personal ethics to gamble for things, you dont get them.

And you are wrong. It's not buying.
If you buy bread, you expect that in exchange for you money you will have your bread.

Here ZOS is trying to sell you bread at ten times or more its value, because 9 times out of 10 your money will buy you nothing.

As anyone of you of the pro camp, have ever seen other games with crates? Do you really think they are elegant and well designed?

Don't like the crates then don't buy the crates it's that simple.

deadlychaos1991 · September 2016

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

ragespell wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

The outrage is people who want the items but dont want to use the crates.

The argument about gambling addiction is a vit of a stretch because if this triggers that, you are still within addiction and afe going to be gambling on real life things. If tou are in recovery, you will be not drawn into it as you know yourself.

Just be honest and say you want whats there in another way instead of creating some far reaching social issue.

Entitlement is real, if you want whats in there you buy them. If its against your personal ethics to gamble for things, you dont get them.

And you are wrong. It's not buying.
If you buy bread, you expect that in exchange for you money you will have your bread.

Here ZOS is trying to sell you bread at ten times or more its value, because 9 times out of 10 your money will buy you nothing.

As anyone of you of the pro camp, have ever seen other games with crates? Do you really think they are elegant and well designed?

Don't like the crates then don't buy the crates it's that simple.

Exactly the mentality that ruined so many good MMO's. Most valuable crown store items will become locked behind these gates, meaning only hard gamblers will be paying money for them. More money generated from that = devs making more things locked behind rng = more money being spent on crown crate development than actual dlc = less subscribers. It's one of the big contributing factors to what kills MMO's.

Sureshawt · September 2016

BlazingDynamo wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

While I am not really happy with how these crates are implemented at the moment I don't see how this is their fault?

You buy cigarettes, tobacco companies fault?
You buy alcohol, pub's fault?
You buy crown crates, ZOS' fault?

No my friend, that is not how life works. If people have gambling issues, they need to get help. You adapt to the world, not the world to you.

Gambling issues? Get help! It's YOUR problem.

Spoken like a true person who's never experienced the issue.

This post makes me both laugh and feel for you. Sorry you don't understand buddy.

Spoken like a spoiled little snowflake that will never take responsibility for their own CHOICES and then also expects the rest of the world to also be punished for their own poor CHOICES.

Your personal problems are not societal problems and you are the one that needs to resolve it and not the have the world adjust to your specific needs.

So tired of people that think it is OK remove choices from the rest of the world because they self abuse or lack self control.

JimT722 · September 2016

KingYogi415 wrote: »

ZOS hired the man man who created the neverwinter store to run the crown store.

Be scared

That's great! I installed neverwinter, played 5 minutes, then uninstalled it and never thought about playing again.

deadlychaos1991 wrote: »

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

ragespell wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

The outrage is people who want the items but dont want to use the crates.

The argument about gambling addiction is a vit of a stretch because if this triggers that, you are still within addiction and afe going to be gambling on real life things. If tou are in recovery, you will be not drawn into it as you know yourself.

Just be honest and say you want whats there in another way instead of creating some far reaching social issue.

Entitlement is real, if you want whats in there you buy them. If its against your personal ethics to gamble for things, you dont get them.

And you are wrong. It's not buying.
If you buy bread, you expect that in exchange for you money you will have your bread.

Here ZOS is trying to sell you bread at ten times or more its value, because 9 times out of 10 your money will buy you nothing.

As anyone of you of the pro camp, have ever seen other games with crates? Do you really think they are elegant and well designed?

Don't like the crates then don't buy the crates it's that simple.

Exactly the mentality that ruined so many good MMO's. Most valuable crown store items will become locked behind these gates, meaning only hard gamblers will be paying money for them. More money generated from that = devs making more things locked behind rng = more money being spent on crown crate development than actual dlc = less subscribers. It's one of the big contributing factors to what kills MMO's.

Exactly. Definitely kills them for me.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

People should really start taking responsibility for their own actions instead of blaming others for their problems. If someone chooses to blow all their money on these crates how is that ZOS's fault? How about growing up and getting help instead of blaming others.

If a casino started setting up slot machines in your house you'd be pissed. Addictive tendencies tend to be passed down in families. I will just avoid such an environment as I am aware of this and would get addicted if I started down that path.

Sallington · September 2016

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

This is also why I boo when they do lottery nonsense at Celtics games. Lotteries and casinos live off of exploitation.

Will ZOS send me scantily clad women to bring me drinks while I open up crown crates?