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Cruel Flurry (VMA DW) nerfed - your opinion?
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Mettaricana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »I think ZOS is finally starting to see a liitle bit of reason. This was really a step in the right direction. Though I would like to see more stamina based nerfs happen. To put stamina more so in line with magicka.
In my honest opinion stamina and magicka, should be at a 50/50 competition rating. Neither should over perform over the other. Though I do believe that stamina based builds should be dealing a little bit more damage then magicka. Since magicka based builds have the PvE utility factor.
However when switching to PvP. The opposite should be done. Since stamina has much more utility then magicka. Just out of design. Unless ZOS and stamina users don't mind forgoing their roll dodge, break free, and blocking supremacy in PvP. And having those abilities moved to their own resource pool. That way stamina can be able to deal more damage then magicka while still being balanced.
I do not believe ZOS should add anymore power creep to the game. By raising magicka builds to stamina's current 2 second kill meta. That will just make for a boring MMO in my opinion. Stamina should be brought back in line with magicka instead.
MMOs in my opinion are much more fun. When they have a healthy middle ground between a RTS, a FPS, and a RPG. Right now ESO is less about tactics, and more about popping out from nowhere to kill your adversaries in PvP before they can even react. Which is fun for about the first 2 weeks. Then gets super dry right quick.
Honestly I feel eso needs to add new mechanics making blocking bashing etc more functional and make bosses less immune to all knock downs staggers etc. bring back soft caps to atleast wep and spell dmg to make plauers do something other than skill spam and wep dmg stack while every other stat suffers. add some plat forming bosses rather than knock down insta kill fests. Make players focus on the fight rather than bloodlust and crushing spamming with no danger velidreth was a good change as far as unique mechanics fight as was chudan with his charge and kill his allies routine.0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nerf was needed.
Now start buffing magicka so their about the same again and quit buffing stam. Srsly.0 -
eserras7b16_ESO✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Nerf was needed.
Now start buffing magicka so their about the same again and quit buffing stam. Srsly.
Nerf was needed, but if you buff magicka now they're going to be over stamina. Magicka is already as strong as stamina.Eptackt - Argonian Templar
Belegrand - Redguard Nightblade0 -
Saint_Bud✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Nerf was needed.
Now start buffing magicka so their about the same again and quit buffing stam. Srsly.
Buffing magicka? That must be an joke. They already can pull 40K+ dps on vmol. So were is the reason?PVP Saint-Bud magicka Templar: AR 49
PVE Lord Victarion mDK : dro'm-Athra-Destroyer pre Morrowind retired for crafting
PVE Ramsay-Bolton magicka NB: Voice of Reason Clockwork City Patch retired
VAA hm/ VHRC hm/ VSO hm/ VMOL hm/ VHOF hm/ VAS hm clear
Stop playing PVE because its boring, content not disigned for melee players and class balance and sustain is ***0 -
Asmael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Nerf was needed.
Now start buffing magicka so their about the same again and quit buffing stam. Srsly.
Buffing magicka? That must be an joke. They already can pull 54K+ dps on vmol. So were is the reason?
Figured it needed a fix.
Those who say that only single target DPS matter haven't completed vMoL.PC EU - Zahraji of the Void, aka "Kitty", the fluffiest salmon genocider in town.
Poke @AsmaeI (last letter is uppercase "i") on PC EU or Asmael#9325 on Discord and receive a meow today.0 -
Saint_Bud✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Nerf was needed.
Now start buffing magicka so their about the same again and quit buffing stam. Srsly.
Buffing magicka? That must be an joke. They already can pull 54K+ dps on vmol. So were is the reason?
Figured it needed a fix.
Those who say that only single target DPS matter haven't completed vMoL.
Why you change my comment in your answer???
That says it allPVP Saint-Bud magicka Templar: AR 49
PVE Lord Victarion mDK : dro'm-Athra-Destroyer pre Morrowind retired for crafting
PVE Ramsay-Bolton magicka NB: Voice of Reason Clockwork City Patch retired
VAA hm/ VHRC hm/ VSO hm/ VMOL hm/ VHOF hm/ VAS hm clear
Stop playing PVE because its boring, content not disigned for melee players and class balance and sustain is ***1 -
potirondb16_ESO✭✭✭
Huh? Magicka should not be infront of StaminaThey were OP AF (and i'm a Cruel flurry user, with stamblade and stamDK), The nerf is huge, but they are still BiS and maybe the magicka user stop complaining about DPS (which is nonsense from my perspective, because if you are close up and personal, you must deal moar damage IMHO), this closes the gap between Magicka and Stamina for Endagame content.
Not very happy bout this, but it's ok, because it will enable more build variety.
So being in light armor with less mitigation should result in less damage than being in medium armor, with more natural mitigation ?
In my opinion, magicka should always deal more damage, provided they are wearing light armor.
Ranged attacks should gain a 10% damage bonus when used within melee range. Because a light armor user who gets close up, should deal more damage than a medium armor melee. But it doesn't.
It is a risk reward scenario, magicka has so much shield stacking, stamina does not
There are a LOT of close range magicka abilities
And medium has so much more dodging (which doesn't eat up your skill slots)
You can go around this for ages, the thing it boils down to is:
Heavy is for mitigration. Ok.
Then medium and light, that are both for dps, why do they have different innate defenses?
Dps should NEVER be balanced around range<melee
They should each excel in specific fights, yes, but a blanket "moar damage, moar mitigration, cause melee" is never the right way to go for it.
The statement abput range vs melee is kind of false. Since it's way easier to design close combat limitation vs long range limitation. I son't personnally mind about the diminution of vMA weapon. My farming is almost done so I can deal with modification but ...
I'm not sure it's the perfect set up still.. However now that Flurry is the bread and butter skill of any stamina dps class except templar it might not be such an inconvenient meta wise. Only thing I wonder is are stamina dps (no maestrom) bringing the same dps overall as a magicka Dps (no Maestrom) if so then there's a bug. If not then where'a the bug. I would personnally have try to modify the master staff in order for magicla build to do more dps with a dual staff combination but that's me
2 weapon bonus for a 2 weapon bonus
Edited by potirondb16_ESO on September 22, 2016 2:01PM0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
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People do non hardmodes? People use shields in vma?IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »
Huh? Magicka should not be infront of StaminaThey were OP AF (and i'm a Cruel flurry user, with stamblade and stamDK), The nerf is huge, but they are still BiS and maybe the magicka user stop complaining about DPS (which is nonsense from my perspective, because if you are close up and personal, you must deal moar damage IMHO), this closes the gap between Magicka and Stamina for Endagame content.
Not very happy bout this, but it's ok, because it will enable more build variety.
So being in light armor with less mitigation should result in less damage than being in medium armor, with more natural mitigation ?
In my opinion, magicka should always deal more damage, provided they are wearing light armor.
Ranged attacks should gain a 10% damage bonus when used within melee range. Because a light armor user who gets close up, should deal more damage than a medium armor melee. But it doesn't.
It is a risk reward scenario, magicka has so much shield stacking, stamina does not
LOL man , stop please ... magicka has so much shield stacking ... " PVE " , NOBODY use shield in trial or in dungeon !! they are useless and you lost a spot for dps !
Nobody uses shields ever? That's a gross overexxageration. A lot of people use harness. Helps with sustain and if youre dead, that's a dps loss.
Most people in trials don't use shields unless its hardmode and they most certainly don't stack shields. Its more a PvP thing or a vMA thing.
Igneous + healing ward + harness + bone shield = shield stacking. Or maybe I should say group synergy shield stacking??? what do you prefer?
Getting people out of the pure dps mindset and working as a team is a challenge, really is
People don't use shields in vMA? I don't know most sorcerers I've seen use shields in there.
Well not everyone can do Hard mode trials right?
Is healing ward a thing in hard mode Trials? Never seen it personally. But yeah group synergy shield stacking is certainly more clear, so yeah I do prefer that. One toon by itself will not shield stack. So its different. A Healing ward or a Igneous can be applied onto a stamina toon too. So yeah the shield stacking comment is still not really valid aye.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
acw37162✭✭✭✭✭
✭They were OP AF (and i'm a Cruel flurry user, with stamblade and stamDK), The nerf is huge, but they are still BiS and maybe the magicka user stop complaining about DPS (which is nonsense from my perspective, because if you are close up and personal, you must deal moar damage IMHO), this closes the gap between Magicka and Stamina for Endagame content.
Not very happy bout this, but it's ok, because it will enable more build variety.
So being in light armor with less mitigation should result in less damage than being in medium armor, with more natural mitigation ?
In my opinion, magicka should always deal more damage, provided they are wearing light armor.
Ranged attacks should gain a 10% damage bonus when used within melee range. Because a light armor user who gets close up, should deal more damage than a medium armor melee. But it doesn't.
Light armor takes only 7% extra damage. Magicka users can tank and heal far better than stamina users. Stamina users have to be in the melee range to fight. All trial and new dungeon bosses have anti-melee one shot mechanics as well anti-stacking mechanics. There is a reason why over 24 magicka damage dealers have finished vMOL hard mode, while only 2 stamina DDs in the whole world have done so.
Careful now his really doesn't coencide with the anti-stamina narrative.
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Autolycus✭✭✭✭✭
✭This nerf isn't that significant; it'll drop a top-end stam dps by 1.5-2k dps, roughly. But you know a set is OP when you can nerf it and it's still BiS.
Still, it would have made more sense to buff magicka sets.
Edit: "isn't that significant" is of course subjective, what I meant by that is that a 40k+ stam dps can still pull 40k+. As far as closing the gap between stamina and magicka, I'm more inclined to believe that the revival of all those old sets to cp160 has a far better chance of doing that than this nerf to Cruel Flurry. Just wanted to clarify that I recognize a 2k drop in dps is significant in certain context, that in some cases it's a matter of perspective, and that everything is relative.Edited by Autolycus on September 22, 2016 7:50PM0 -
Apherius✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This nerf isn't that significant; it'll drop a top-end stam dps by 1.5-2k dps, roughly. But you know a set is OP when you can nerf it and it's still BiS.
Still, it would have made more sense to buff magicka sets.
Exactly .
personaly .. i'm ok for a buff of the set " elemental succesion " ... this would be the first sorcerer Non overload set of the game .0 -
GnaticusSoul ShrivenThis nerf isn't that significant; it'll drop a top-end stam dps by 1.5-2k dps, roughly. But you know a set is OP when you can nerf it and it's still BiS.
Still, it would have made more sense to buff magicka sets.
Edit: "isn't that significant" is of course subjective, what I meant by that is that a 40k+ stam dps can still pull 40k+. As far as closing the gap between stamina and magicka, I'm more inclined to believe that the revival of all those old sets to cp160 has a far better chance of doing that than this nerf to Cruel Flurry. Just wanted to clarify that I recognize a 2k drop in dps is significant in certain context, that in some cases it's a matter of perspective, and that everything is relative.
I agree it needed a nerf, but to be honest I actually wish they would completely rework the set even though I have them for my Stam DK. I hate that to be competitive you have to run a specific set with specific traits in a specific rotation, I like having options and being cookie cutter ruins the whole 'Elder Scrolls' experience I'm used to having.
The above is wrong though, it's almost a 12% reduction in dot damage for boosted abilities compared to live, most DK's will lose around 8 - 10.5% overall dps.0 -
Autolycus✭✭✭✭✭
✭This nerf isn't that significant; it'll drop a top-end stam dps by 1.5-2k dps, roughly. But you know a set is OP when you can nerf it and it's still BiS.
Still, it would have made more sense to buff magicka sets.
Edit: "isn't that significant" is of course subjective, what I meant by that is that a 40k+ stam dps can still pull 40k+. As far as closing the gap between stamina and magicka, I'm more inclined to believe that the revival of all those old sets to cp160 has a far better chance of doing that than this nerf to Cruel Flurry. Just wanted to clarify that I recognize a 2k drop in dps is significant in certain context, that in some cases it's a matter of perspective, and that everything is relative.
I agree it needed a nerf, but to be honest I actually wish they would completely rework the set even though I have them for my Stam DK. I hate that to be competitive you have to run a specific set with specific traits in a specific rotation, I like having options and being cookie cutter ruins the whole 'Elder Scrolls' experience I'm used to having.
The above is wrong though, it's almost a 12% reduction in dot damage for boosted abilities compared to live, most DK's will lose around 8 - 10.5% overall dps.
It hits stam DKs a bit harder than other stam classes since they have an additional single-target dot to empower, yes. I ran the numbers with a guildie though, and used 12% also, using tooltips from our dps parses to see how much dps each dot actually is in a practical setting, and it came out to about 2k decrease. On a 45k parse 2k isn't that bad, but it doesn't solve anything. It's not like magicka got stronger for this, and thus the disparity between magicka and stam is only slightly narrower. But I'm not trying to argue your maths... we are clearly on the same page and if your maths are showing a 4k drop in dps, there's probably merit to it, and that is unfortunate
Tbh, I'm not really trying to make a case for or against the change itself. I know there are a lot of magicka builds out there that do just fine in a trial setting (I have one, and so do many in my guild) damage-wise. Often times their numbers are comparable to stamina, very closely so. But in other fights there are limitations on magicka builds (i.e. being range and not getting combat prayer) that decrease overall dps potential. I guess my point from above is that nerfing a weapon, which I think we all agree is appropriate, more or less, doesn't give magicka builds some of the things they need. Minor Force is one such example. Or the fact that stamina builds have 3 vMA weapons and magicka builds get 1. I mean... ZOS even said themselves that they like the concept of magicka users choosing dual swords for their dps builds, yet there is not benefit to running DW vMA swords. Having an option for single swords to drop that, as a hypothetical example, would buff the damage of AoEDoTs while equipped, might open up a world of possibilities. Ofc that hypothetical example has virtually no merit since it hasn't been tested at all, and I just made it up off-hand, but I think the point is clear at least.
Without actually testing the revived sets myself, I'm inclined to think that there are several options that could help to close the gap between stam and magicka parses. These options, I think, are a bigger step in the direction of balance than nerfing vMA DW, even if it was too powerful, and even if the change is appropriate.
Edited by Autolycus on September 23, 2016 8:37PM0 -
Autolycus✭✭✭✭✭
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I know that... lol. I figured that was clear since the vast majority of what I said is in favor of boosting magicka dps.
Edited by Autolycus on September 23, 2016 9:03PM0 -
GnaticusSoul ShrivenWell my point was that I wish it had more generic functionality such as "After using a class ability that deals damage your next weapon ability that deals damage deals an additional [X] weapon or spell damage 4 second cooldown" or some other functionality that would promote varied styles of play.
Edited by Gnaticus on September 23, 2016 9:38PM1 -
Dymence✭✭✭✭✭
✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Nerf was needed.
Now start buffing magicka so their about the same again and quit buffing stam. Srsly.
Buffing magicka? That must be an joke. They already can pull 54K+ dps on vmol. So were is the reason?
Figured it needed a fix.
Those who say that only single target DPS matter haven't completed vMoL.
Magicka with 54k+ dps in vmol? In trash packs you mean?
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