Mojmir wrote: »

Lol seriously? You what I meant,passives not appearance. I guess becoming as powerful as shalidor,a nord,with no magicka passives makes total lore sense than.

Racial traits only increase your chances in something, not dictate your fate. You can always overcome natural limitations, or waste your advantages. Shalidor prefered the first option, that's it.

Mojmir wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Passives and appearance are linked. That is the point. You want to play an Argonian? The means you get the scales, tail etc. and the passives. To decouple one from the other makes no sense.

Shalidor wasn't a great mage because he had Altmer passives. He was a great mage because he had an extraordinary mind, extraordinary willpower... and put in the work.

[Edit: Spelling of "mage"]

Which proves my point,not every nord shouldn't have the same passives. Eliminate the word racial and just make them passives or "talents". This promotes more diversity.

It proves that we need softcaps back in the game, not a removal or choice of racial passives.

Has anyone considered adding more Racial Passives? Y'know that fit lore and buff some of the weaker races? Argonians still have 0 passives that would let you play as an out and out shadowscale. They could use "x crit chance" or a large max stam/stam recovery passive.

I am in no way suggesting that adding 2 or 3 more racial passives would balance the races entirely but would maybe balance how lackluster some races are as a stam or magicka build and thus improve build diversity.

The issue with some racial passives is that some races just don't have a comparison for the better ones. No race has 8% increased magic crit rating to compete with the khajiit and stamina.
Some races have damage reduction for poison/fire etc. but no race has the flat percentage resistance to all damage the nord gets.

Maybe creating similar, yet less effective passives for some races would reduce the feeling of selective lore without overpowering certain races in terms of gameplay. For nords being great warriors they get no racial help to DPS. For Argonians being shadowscales they're pretty limited as stam builds unless it's tanking.

Add 2 more passives. Grant more diversity. Keep them lore friendly. Limit them where necessary to stop the already exceptional races becoming more OP.

I don't min/max. I use a Breton because my roleplay. It gives me a disvantage in tanking compared to Redguards. Yet, I think removing racial passives or making them irrelevant will go against the Lore, which for me is what matters. That said, we could use a racial revamp and an attempt to equalize the passives. For instance, the buffs were organized and equalized as Major Evasion, Major Prophecy, Minor Prophecy, etc. Take racial passives that give 9% Stamina and turn to 10%. Passives that gives 12% health and turn to 10%. Make races uniques whilst keeping their passives equals across the board. So people can still min/max and pick a race tailored for their build, have no guilt in picking a race that goes with their roleplay and nobody would feel at disvantage. Let's be serious here, for Stam DPS there are really two races, the cats and the curved swords, you might try to spin it to a niche build with other races here and there but truth is we are trapped in some races being way better than others. That takes a lot of diversity of the game.

Cously wrote: »

I don't min/max. I use a Breton because my roleplay. It gives me a disvantage in tanking compared to Redguards. Yet, I think removing racial passives or making them irrelevant will go against the Lore, which for me is what matters. That said, we could use a racial revamp and an attempt to equalize the passives. For instance, the buffs were organized and equalized as Major Evasion, Major Prophecy, Minor Prophecy, etc. Take racial passives that give 9% Stamina and turn to 10%. Passives that gives 12% health and turn to 10%. Make races uniques whilst keeping their passives equals across the board. So people can still min/max and pick a race tailored for their build, have no guilt in picking a race that goes with their roleplay and nobody would feel at disvantage. Let's be serious here, for Stam DPS there are really two races, the cats and the curved swords, you might try to spin it to a niche build with other races here and there but truth is we are trapped in some races being way better than others. That takes a lot of diversity of the game.

Agree completely. I think Orcs, Nords, Argonians, Dark Elves and should all be more effective stam DPS races (Wood elves are pretty good stamblades tbh)

More races should be viable or even competitive builds for magicka DPS too because really, depending on the class, it's either Altmer, Breton or Dark Elf for most magicka DPS builds.

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Kendaric wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Passives and appearance are linked. That is the point. You want to play an Argonian? The means you get the scales, tail etc. and the passives. To decouple one from the other makes no sense.

Shalidor wasn't a great mage because he had Altmer passives. He was a great mage because he had an extraordinary mind, extraordinary willpower... and put in the work.

[Edit: Spelling of "mage"]

Which proves my point,not every nord shouldn't have the same passives. Eliminate the word racial and just make them passives or "talents". This promotes more diversity.

It proves that we need softcaps back in the game, not a removal or choice of racial passives.

This right here. This is what you guys should be asking for, not for the possibility to pick your racial passives.

InFernalEntity wrote: »

puffytheslayer wrote: »

i clicked edit & it quoted...
or maybe im tired & i need to go sleep...
anyhew, what i meant to say was!

increase frost damage *dealt by* nords - let the Nord ice mage battle begin!

edt*

We would probably need a Cryomancy skill line first

Although not in the subject of the thread, I will just say that I would like a Cryomancy skill line very much (and incidentally, I do have a Nord Ice Mage).

Again, softcaps or no softcaps, as long as there is a gap in performance between races, there will be a handful of races considered to be the best, and choosing anything else is akin to shooting yourself in the foot.

Yes but a race should still not be able to do everything at the highest potential. Selecting racials is not the way forward. Balancing or adding racials to create balance is. I agree that there shouldn't be a "best in slot" race for each class but it should still be lore friendly. It's safe to say there should be more Stam DPS outside of Khajiit and Redguard. And more Magicka DPS outside of Altmer, Breton and Dunmer.

However, I don't see making Breton great Stam DPS's as the answer. Or Khajiit's good with magic.
Maybe buff stam and/OR magicka across the board on the 5 or so races that don't really cut it for DPS.

Though there is no way every race is going to be identical in all ways for the possibility of Stam/Magicka DPS or heal or tank, increasing the number of races pulling off these roles seems like a must.

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Kendaric wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Passives and appearance are linked. That is the point. You want to play an Argonian? The means you get the scales, tail etc. and the passives. To decouple one from the other makes no sense.

Shalidor wasn't a great mage because he had Altmer passives. He was a great mage because he had an extraordinary mind, extraordinary willpower... and put in the work.

[Edit: Spelling of "mage"]

Which proves my point,not every nord shouldn't have the same passives. Eliminate the word racial and just make them passives or "talents". This promotes more diversity.

It proves that we need softcaps back in the game, not a removal or choice of racial passives.

This right here. This is what you guys should be asking for, not for the possibility to pick your racial passives.

InFernalEntity wrote: »

puffytheslayer wrote: »

i clicked edit & it quoted...
or maybe im tired & i need to go sleep...
anyhew, what i meant to say was!

increase frost damage *dealt by* nords - let the Nord ice mage battle begin!

edt*

We would probably need a Cryomancy skill line first

Although not in the subject of the thread, I will just say that I would like a Cryomancy skill line very much (and incidentally, I do have a Nord Ice Mage).

Again, softcaps or no softcaps, as long as there is a gap in performance between races, there will be a handful of races considered to be the best, and choosing anything else is akin to shooting yourself in the foot.

Back when we had softcaps, there were races that had a headstart on certain things and races that didn't.
And that's it, because any race could reach the softcaps with the right setup. Therefore, there wasn't a noticiable gap in performance between races, so there wasn't "shooting yourself in the foot" with race choice. This is actually why I pushed for Race Change; because the game changed. Race meant very little before softcaps were removed.

DannyLV702 wrote: »

Dumb

Great argument, kid.

Abeille wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Kendaric wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Passives and appearance are linked. That is the point. You want to play an Argonian? The means you get the scales, tail etc. and the passives. To decouple one from the other makes no sense.

Shalidor wasn't a great mage because he had Altmer passives. He was a great mage because he had an extraordinary mind, extraordinary willpower... and put in the work.

[Edit: Spelling of "mage"]

Which proves my point,not every nord shouldn't have the same passives. Eliminate the word racial and just make them passives or "talents". This promotes more diversity.

It proves that we need softcaps back in the game, not a removal or choice of racial passives.

This right here. This is what you guys should be asking for, not for the possibility to pick your racial passives.

InFernalEntity wrote: »

puffytheslayer wrote: »

i clicked edit & it quoted...
or maybe im tired & i need to go sleep...
anyhew, what i meant to say was!

increase frost damage *dealt by* nords - let the Nord ice mage battle begin!

edt*

We would probably need a Cryomancy skill line first

Although not in the subject of the thread, I will just say that I would like a Cryomancy skill line very much (and incidentally, I do have a Nord Ice Mage).

Again, softcaps or no softcaps, as long as there is a gap in performance between races, there will be a handful of races considered to be the best, and choosing anything else is akin to shooting yourself in the foot.

Back when we had softcaps, there were races that had a headstart on certain things and races that didn't.
And that's it, because any race could reach the softcaps with the right setup. Therefore, there wasn't a noticiable gap in performance between races, so there wasn't "shooting yourself in the foot" with race choice. This is actually why I pushed for Race Change; because the game changed. Race meant very little before softcaps were removed.

If you introduce softcaps again, it would only be a nerf for races with stat-bonus. Races like dunmer, altmer, khajiit and redguard (for the regen) would be even better compared to breton or woodelf (or any other race) than they are now. Just bc they provide a bonus to a stat which isn't capped. But it would minimize the difference between argonian, breton, nord and whatever...
This only helps to equalize the "bad" races, but the best races will stay the best and will also be even better.

That would be nice gameplay wise but stupid lorewise.

It would hose lore, sorry but no.

serenity_painted wrote: »

If i had it my way race choice would only be important for niche builds and the most *** min/maxers but what can you do? Gotta sell them race changes i guess...

Thy are only important for min/maxers, but most people blindly follow and think they get some insane-DPS boost when switching from a bad to a good race. For example Khajiit offers like 5% more DPS in a perfectly organised group which is 2...3k DPS IF you are already doing 50k DPS with a bad race. And even that ~5k DPS increase you get for dunmer on magicka DK (compared to bad race) is only valid when you are doing 40k DPS already.
For someone maybe doing less than 20k DPS this sounds like a lot, but it's only 2k or less for them. Combined with an at this point usually bad rotation, you won't notice a big increase in DPS.
If you want to do the best DPS, you need the best race for your build. If you are not running in min/maxed-groups just don't care and be happy with your race...

altemriel wrote: »

choosing a racial passive would totaly denies the idea of racial passives......every race is unique, so this whole tread does not make sense at all!!

It shows (again) that there's a huge gap between races. Almost everybody who plays competitive (PvE OR PvP) would choose redguard or khajiit / altmer or dunmer as their race. Why did ZOS introduce race changes? Because people wanted to change theirs to a better one. So the thread makes sense.