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Undaunted 10?
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failkiwib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭@UltimaJoe777 ahhh thank you for providing a link.
O.o would it hurt to introduce an AoE taunt for those who like to use it? It kinda reminds me of Remembrance, the unpopular and almost never used templar healing ultimate...
I can imagine a lot of tanks would avoid it, because it shaves off your stamina if you hold block + the healer has to focus all healing on the you lol barrier/ aggressive horn is more effective, depending on what bossfight and what group you're dealing with and most tanks would choose the popular choices.
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UltimaJoe777✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭UltimaJoe777 wrote: »Ugh. All this AoE taunt nonsense. It's so unimaginative for people to even suggest that the Undaunted Ultimate, which is something that should be benefit the entire group and castable by anyone in the group, would be best wasted on a useless ability designed for a single role, usable by only one (or sometimes two) group members. Humbug.
People really should stop this narrow-minded obsession with AoE taunts--ESO combat is not like combat in other games, and thus it doesn't make sense to blindly copy mechanics from other games without any consideration to whether it even makes any sense in the broader context.
Anyway, putting that aside, let's try something like this instead:
Battle Cry, 250 Ultimate, provides a synergy that any number of group members can use (to join in the caster's cry)
The caster and any group member activating the synergy is granted Undaunted Resolve for 10s, with the following effects:- Bolster your force of will, increasing damage dealt by X%.
- Sap the resolve of your enemies: each blocked hit increases your resistance by Y while decreasing the attacker's resistance by Y, stacking up to 5 times.
- Invigorate your healing, increasing healing done by Z% and increasing the weapon and spell damage of allies healed by you by W, stacking up to 5 times.
Everyone who synergizes gets all 3 buffs, so every role will get some kind of use out of the synergy. The numbers should be tuned such that it's a bit better than War Horn for group DPS (since Undaunted is the skill line for Group PvE, after all, and War Horn is from the Alliance War) and so that it doesn't pigeonhole the ultimate to something that only support roles use (which is the case for War Horn). This could be done by increasing the potency of the effect for the caster (perhaps duration of the buff for the caster is increased by 1s for each person who activates the synergy), so a DPS might actually consider running it instead of a pure DPS ultimate.
We get it, you're against AoE Taunts.
We get it, you'll cheerlead for AoE taunts even in the face of overwhelming reason against them.
And, yes, in case it's not abundantly clear, I'm against them, and for good reason. And furthermore, even if AoE taunts were a good idea in this game, to waste (and yes, I do mean waste) the Undaunted skill line ultimate on something so narrow in scope, intended for a single role, would be a travesty of design.
And you'll go against them in the face of overwhelming desire to have them too. Swings both ways. However, I've made my case plenty enough so I don't need to persist. The question is, why do you? Are you that threatened by the fact AoE Taunts may actually happen someday that you need to persist on opposing the idea so hard?Edited by UltimaJoe777 on September 16, 2016 7:07PMGuildmaster of Power With Numbers in PS4 NA Server's Aldmeri Dominion.
Proud Founder of the Yaysay cult! DOWN WITH THE NAYSAY CULT!! #ToxicRemedy0 -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
You're still ignoring the sheer ridiculousness of pigeonholing the ultimate for Undaunted into a single-role single-purpose ability.UltimaJoe777 wrote: »And you'll go against them in the face of overwhelming desire to have them too. Swings both ways.
(And one for which an overwhelming desire to have does not exist, contrary to what you believe.)Nightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
Dungeons and Trials:Personal best scores:- Dragonstar Arena: 46817 (NA)
- Maelstrom Arena: 600526 (NA)
- Blackrose Prison: 99274 (EU) (Unchained)
- Maw of Lorkhaj: 165227 (EU)
- Halls of Fabrication: 220708 (NA) (Tick-Tock Tormentor #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12)
- Asylum Sanctorium: 114957 (NA) (Immortal Redeemer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10)
- Cloudrest: 131256 (NA) (Gryphon Heart #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Sunspire: 250866 (EU) (Godslayer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Kyne's Aegis: 235841 (EU) (Dawnbringer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8)
Dungeon trifectas:- Mountain God and Leave No Bone Unbroken
- Apex Predator and Pure Lunacy
- Depths Defier and Relentless Raider
- Defanged the Devourer and Nature's Wrath
- In Defiance of Death and No Rest for the Wicked
- Bane of Thorns and True Genius
- Ardent Bibliophile and Subterranean Smasher
- Battlespire's Best and Bastion Breaker
- Zero Regrets and Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy
- Fist of Tava and Invader's Bane
- Curator's Champion (Valinna) and Temporal Tempest
- Unshakeable Fervor and Lighting the Embers
Extended Journal Add-Ons: Item Set Browser ― Loot Log ― Character Knowledge ― Collectibles Tracker ― RaidificatorPC/Console Add-Ons: Combat Alerts ― Group Buff PanelsOther Add-Ons: Deconstruction Junk Marker ― Purge Tracker ― Asylum Status Panel ― Smart Looter ― Improved Companion Rapport Information0 -
UltimaJoe777✭✭✭✭✭
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You're still ignoring the sheer ridiculousness of pigeonholing the ultimate for Undaunted into a single-role single-purpose ability.UltimaJoe777 wrote: »And you'll go against them in the face of overwhelming desire to have them too. Swings both ways.
(And one for which an overwhelming desire to have does not exist, contrary to what you believe.)
What you and I believe is what you and I believe, but we alone do not speak for everyone, contrary to what YOU believe. As for why I think it should be the Undaunted Ultimate, think about it:
The entire Undaunted skill line is PvE-friendly. Furthermore, it has a synergy that is usually more beneficial than the initial effect, barring Inner Fire. The synergy will give the ability extra use beyond Taunting, just like Inner Fire does. As a skill line themed around group dungeoneering, it's considerably appropriate as the Ultimate, especially since that would serve to compromise between those wanting it and those not wanting it.
P.S. I honestly don't care what the synergy is but I lean towards a buff.Edited by UltimaJoe777 on September 16, 2016 7:14PMGuildmaster of Power With Numbers in PS4 NA Server's Aldmeri Dominion.
Proud Founder of the Yaysay cult! DOWN WITH THE NAYSAY CULT!! #ToxicRemedy0 -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭UltimaJoe777 wrote: »
You're still ignoring the sheer ridiculousness of pigeonholing the ultimate for Undaunted into a single-role single-purpose ability.UltimaJoe777 wrote: »And you'll go against them in the face of overwhelming desire to have them too. Swings both ways.
(And one for which an overwhelming desire to have does not exist, contrary to what you believe.)
What you and I believe is what you and I believe, but we alone do not speak for everyone, contrary to what YOU believe. As for why I think it should be the Undaunted Ultimate, think about it:
The entire Undaunted skill line is PvE-friendly. Furthermore, it has a synergy that is usually more beneficial than the initial effect, barring Inner Fire. The synergy will give the ability extra use beyond Taunting, just like Inner Fire does. As a skill line themed around group dungeoneering, it's considerably appropriate as the Ultimate, especially since that would serve to compromise between those wanting it and those not wanting it.
P.S. I honestly don't care what the synergy is but I lean towards a buff.
Go and create a poll already so we can settle this stupid question of what people actually want. Nevertheless, the Undaunted ultimate is something that should provide a benefit to all roles and is something that should make sense for any role to cast. A taunt is grossly narrow in scope, unimaginative, and inappropriate.Nightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
Dungeons and Trials:Personal best scores:- Dragonstar Arena: 46817 (NA)
- Maelstrom Arena: 600526 (NA)
- Blackrose Prison: 99274 (EU) (Unchained)
- Maw of Lorkhaj: 165227 (EU)
- Halls of Fabrication: 220708 (NA) (Tick-Tock Tormentor #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12)
- Asylum Sanctorium: 114957 (NA) (Immortal Redeemer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10)
- Cloudrest: 131256 (NA) (Gryphon Heart #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Sunspire: 250866 (EU) (Godslayer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Kyne's Aegis: 235841 (EU) (Dawnbringer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8)
Dungeon trifectas:- Mountain God and Leave No Bone Unbroken
- Apex Predator and Pure Lunacy
- Depths Defier and Relentless Raider
- Defanged the Devourer and Nature's Wrath
- In Defiance of Death and No Rest for the Wicked
- Bane of Thorns and True Genius
- Ardent Bibliophile and Subterranean Smasher
- Battlespire's Best and Bastion Breaker
- Zero Regrets and Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy
- Fist of Tava and Invader's Bane
- Curator's Champion (Valinna) and Temporal Tempest
- Unshakeable Fervor and Lighting the Embers
Extended Journal Add-Ons: Item Set Browser ― Loot Log ― Character Knowledge ― Collectibles Tracker ― RaidificatorPC/Console Add-Ons: Combat Alerts ― Group Buff PanelsOther Add-Ons: Deconstruction Junk Marker ― Purge Tracker ― Asylum Status Panel ― Smart Looter ― Improved Companion Rapport Information0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ThePaleItalian wrote: »Tank here. Hi, how are you all doing?
No an AOE taught is not needed. Honestly if this becomes a tank and spank combat game like other MMO's then its really going to hurt combat.
What makes ESO so much fun is that fact that each class has to be able to protect themselves. Having the tank holding aggro through every single pull will become boring for DPS and heals who will just stand there and spam attacks and yawn to the next mob.
I do not mind an Undaunted Ultimate, but not an AOE taunt. It is not needed. To be honest, if you need one, then either your group cannot protect or defend themselves, or you have that WoW mentality of charging in and just stand there and not doing anything but auto attacking and taunting.
Don't worry. The Devs will not listen to such nonsense since they understand how an AoE taunt is not needed. So glad they aren't going to turn this game into another WoW or SWTOR.1 -
UltimaJoe777✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭UltimaJoe777 wrote: »
You're still ignoring the sheer ridiculousness of pigeonholing the ultimate for Undaunted into a single-role single-purpose ability.UltimaJoe777 wrote: »And you'll go against them in the face of overwhelming desire to have them too. Swings both ways.
(And one for which an overwhelming desire to have does not exist, contrary to what you believe.)
What you and I believe is what you and I believe, but we alone do not speak for everyone, contrary to what YOU believe. As for why I think it should be the Undaunted Ultimate, think about it:
The entire Undaunted skill line is PvE-friendly. Furthermore, it has a synergy that is usually more beneficial than the initial effect, barring Inner Fire. The synergy will give the ability extra use beyond Taunting, just like Inner Fire does. As a skill line themed around group dungeoneering, it's considerably appropriate as the Ultimate, especially since that would serve to compromise between those wanting it and those not wanting it.
P.S. I honestly don't care what the synergy is but I lean towards a buff.
Go and create a poll already so we can settle this stupid question of what people actually want. Nevertheless, the Undaunted ultimate is something that should provide a benefit to all roles and is something that should make sense for any role to cast. A taunt is grossly narrow in scope, unimaginative, and inappropriate.
Who says Damagers and Healers can't Taunt though? Just because it's best suited to Tanks doesn't mean they cannot, especially if a Tank isn't present and someone wants to take the edge off of their allies. As for making a poll, no point. All the feedback in the other thread is enough, not to mention this thread's existance. Sure many are against it, but many are for it too, and the people that do not voice their opinions on these forums may or may not want it too.Guildmaster of Power With Numbers in PS4 NA Server's Aldmeri Dominion.
Proud Founder of the Yaysay cult! DOWN WITH THE NAYSAY CULT!! #ToxicRemedy0 -
UltimaJoe777✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »ThePaleItalian wrote: »Tank here. Hi, how are you all doing?
No an AOE taught is not needed. Honestly if this becomes a tank and spank combat game like other MMO's then its really going to hurt combat.
What makes ESO so much fun is that fact that each class has to be able to protect themselves. Having the tank holding aggro through every single pull will become boring for DPS and heals who will just stand there and spam attacks and yawn to the next mob.
I do not mind an Undaunted Ultimate, but not an AOE taunt. It is not needed. To be honest, if you need one, then either your group cannot protect or defend themselves, or you have that WoW mentality of charging in and just stand there and not doing anything but auto attacking and taunting.
Don't worry. The Devs will not listen to such nonsense since they understand how an AoE taunt is not needed. So glad they aren't going to turn this game into another WoW or SWTOR.
I pity you. Truly, I do. You think they won't listen to this feedback just because they said they won't add it? No, they listen to ALL feedback and have been known to change their stance and actually decide to add something based upon it. Usually it depends on how badly it's wanted but don't ever count anything they say as guaranteed forever at this point, because it's not.Guildmaster of Power With Numbers in PS4 NA Server's Aldmeri Dominion.
Proud Founder of the Yaysay cult! DOWN WITH THE NAYSAY CULT!! #ToxicRemedy0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭UltimaJoe777 wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »ThePaleItalian wrote: »Tank here. Hi, how are you all doing?
No an AOE taught is not needed. Honestly if this becomes a tank and spank combat game like other MMO's then its really going to hurt combat.
What makes ESO so much fun is that fact that each class has to be able to protect themselves. Having the tank holding aggro through every single pull will become boring for DPS and heals who will just stand there and spam attacks and yawn to the next mob.
I do not mind an Undaunted Ultimate, but not an AOE taunt. It is not needed. To be honest, if you need one, then either your group cannot protect or defend themselves, or you have that WoW mentality of charging in and just stand there and not doing anything but auto attacking and taunting.
Don't worry. The Devs will not listen to such nonsense since they understand how an AoE taunt is not needed. So glad they aren't going to turn this game into another WoW or SWTOR.
I pity you. Truly, I do. You think they won't listen to this feedback just because they said they won't add it? No, they listen to ALL feedback and have been known to change their stance and actually decide to add something based upon it. Usually it depends on how badly it's wanted but don't ever count anything they say as guaranteed forever at this point, because it's not.
@UltimaJoe777 your pitty is very much misdirected. Clearly any tank who feels an AoE taunt is needed requires some assistance with his/her chosen role.
However, concerning your thoughts that an undaunted AoE taunt would be useful to healers and damage dealers because they can use it to taunt is probably because the tank is not very good and an AoE taunt is not going to get any better with an AoE taunt. it also demonstrates a narrow minded view of this topic.
Btw, this topic is very much over thought and really just the same few players are in support of it.Edited by idk on September 16, 2016 8:42PM1 -
UltimaJoe777✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »UltimaJoe777 wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »ThePaleItalian wrote: »Tank here. Hi, how are you all doing?
No an AOE taught is not needed. Honestly if this becomes a tank and spank combat game like other MMO's then its really going to hurt combat.
What makes ESO so much fun is that fact that each class has to be able to protect themselves. Having the tank holding aggro through every single pull will become boring for DPS and heals who will just stand there and spam attacks and yawn to the next mob.
I do not mind an Undaunted Ultimate, but not an AOE taunt. It is not needed. To be honest, if you need one, then either your group cannot protect or defend themselves, or you have that WoW mentality of charging in and just stand there and not doing anything but auto attacking and taunting.
Don't worry. The Devs will not listen to such nonsense since they understand how an AoE taunt is not needed. So glad they aren't going to turn this game into another WoW or SWTOR.
I pity you. Truly, I do. You think they won't listen to this feedback just because they said they won't add it? No, they listen to ALL feedback and have been known to change their stance and actually decide to add something based upon it. Usually it depends on how badly it's wanted but don't ever count anything they say as guaranteed forever at this point, because it's not.
@UltimaJoe777 your pitty is very much misdirected. Clearly any tank who feels an AoE taunt is needed requires some assistance with his/her chosen role.
However, concerning your thoughts that an undaunted AoE taunt would be useful to healers and damage dealers because they can use it to taunt is probably because the tank is not very good and an AoE taunt is not going to get any better with an AoE taunt. it also demonstrates a narrow minded view of this topic.
Btw, this topic is very much over thought and really just the same few players are in support of it.When did anyone in this thread ever say that an AOE taunt is needed?
Seriously, stop sounding like a broken record, you and those like you who are adamant about opposing anyone that supports adding an AoE Taunt. It does nothing but make things go back and forth for no reason and you know it. Also I didn't say it WOULD be useful to other roles, I said it COULD if they happen to feel they have use of it.
For the record, it's actually the same people that DON'T support it that have chimed in. I've seen more pro for it than no for it in this thread so far. Furthermore this isn't just some fleeting idea someone had and one thread was made for it. It is evident people want an AoE Taunt, not out of need or necessity, but because it is WANTED as an OPTION.Edited by UltimaJoe777 on September 16, 2016 9:13PMGuildmaster of Power With Numbers in PS4 NA Server's Aldmeri Dominion.
Proud Founder of the Yaysay cult! DOWN WITH THE NAYSAY CULT!! #ToxicRemedy0 -
Mortehl✭✭✭I feel like an aoe taunt would remove what is an already diminished desire to tank 4 man content. I very much enjoy trials, but I'm so burned out of the same old 4 mans save the really big pulls where I have to work at it.
And as an FYI, while I am merely one tank with no authority to speak for most or all tanks, -my- opinion is that no aoe taunt should ever exist but should it be added, it should not be an ultimate.0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »Why exactly is AoE taunt a bad idea? I'm curious...
Because the game is already as is for tanks, it would promote worse playing I stead of better playing...1 -
Breedj01✭✭✭As the OP says, the request is for an undaunted ultimate. Not an AoE taunt, that was merely a suggestion. People get their pants in knots over a simple suggestion and start sounding off about how tanks who want this aren't good at tanking. How can wanting the aggro of everything, and being able to handle it without much healing make you a bad tank? Have you even seen the final boss of vdsa? There are times when the tank wants everyone but the boss, far away from the dps and healer. An AoE or Cone Taunt would make this far faster and better for the team. But as I said, I was putting it out there as a suggestion, not a request. Calm your selves.Where are all the Oranges? Plenty of other fruits in tamriel... Where are the Oranges??0
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UltimaJoe777✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭As the OP says, the request is for an undaunted ultimate. Not an AoE taunt, that was merely a suggestion. People get their pants in knots over a simple suggestion and start sounding off about how tanks who want this aren't good at tanking. How can wanting the aggro of everything, and being able to handle it without much healing make you a bad tank? Have you even seen the final boss of vdsa? There are times when the tank wants everyone but the boss, far away from the dps and healer. An AoE or Cone Taunt would make this far faster and better for the team. But as I said, I was putting it out there as a suggestion, not a request. Calm your selves.
Their concern is mainly over some rookie tank using the AoE Taunt to pull so much aggro they get destroyed and that just messes the whole trinity up. It is a valid concern, but there ARE talented Tanks out there that can handle it.Guildmaster of Power With Numbers in PS4 NA Server's Aldmeri Dominion.
Proud Founder of the Yaysay cult! DOWN WITH THE NAYSAY CULT!! #ToxicRemedy0 -
UltimaJoe777✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I think the ultimate should change based on what unduanted set you have on.
Not sure if Zenimax can pull that off without breaking it...Guildmaster of Power With Numbers in PS4 NA Server's Aldmeri Dominion.
Proud Founder of the Yaysay cult! DOWN WITH THE NAYSAY CULT!! #ToxicRemedy0 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ugh. All this AoE taunt nonsense. It's so unimaginative for people to even suggest that the Undaunted Ultimate, which is something that should benefit the entire group and castable by anyone in the group, would be best wasted on a useless ability designed for a single role, usable by only one (or sometimes two) group members. Humbug.
People really should stop this narrow-minded obsession with AoE taunts--ESO combat is not like combat in other games, and thus it doesn't make sense to blindly copy mechanics from other games without any consideration to whether it even makes any sense in the broader context.
Anyway, putting that aside, let's try something like this instead:
Battle Cry, 250 Ultimate, provides a synergy that any number of group members can use (to join in the caster's cry)
The caster and any group member activating the synergy is granted Undaunted Resolve for 10s, with the following effects:- Bolster your force of will, increasing damage dealt by X%.
- Sap the resolve of your enemies: each blocked hit increases your resistance by Y while decreasing the attacker's resistance by Y, stacking up to 5 times.
- Invigorate your healing, increasing healing done by Z% and increasing the weapon and spell damage of allies healed by you by W, stacking up to 5 times.
Everyone who synergizes gets all 3 buffs, so every role will get some kind of use out of the synergy. The numbers should be tuned such that it's a bit better than War Horn for group DPS (since Undaunted is the skill line for Group PvE, after all, and War Horn is from the Alliance War) and so that it doesn't pigeonhole the ultimate to something that only support roles use (which is the case for War Horn). This could be done by increasing the potency of the effect for the caster (perhaps duration of the buff for the caster is increased by 1s for each person who activates the synergy), so a DPS might actually consider running it instead of a pure DPS ultimate.
Nice idea, but I still think warhorn as a single utlimate should have a bigger effect on dps than a undaunted ultimate that gives you 3 different buffs.0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If our tank used an ultimate to taunt, we would probably have to tie him up by his ankles until he found his warhorn. That is all.0