Remove racial passives / let us choose passives

I_killed_Vivec · September 2016

I once tried an Orc Mage in Morrowind... man, was he stupid!

Abeille · September 2016

Iluvrien wrote: »

Skcarkden wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

I honestly see no reason why people would be opposed to this, doesn't change the meta at all while allowing for you to choose the race that you like instead of the race that works the best for your build.

Because it breaks lore. That alone is reason enough. The Elder Scrolls doesn't have races just so you can min/max.

Gameplay>lore. Having racials in the single player games made sense because you weren't competing with anybody else, but in an MMO like ESO you are. As an avid fan of the single player games, I'd much rather be able to make my orc a mage without severely gimping myself than to preserve the "sanctity of the lore."

Gameplay IS lore. This whole game cares more about its lore than the fact it's an MMO. Unfortunately, it also skates on thin ice at times to do things like One Tamriel. Flat-out breaking lore though? Never gonna happen. You may not care about the lore, but plenty of others do. This is The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited, not The Elder Scrolls Online: Races Unlimited.

Arguing foregoing the racial traits is lore breaking because previous Elder Scrolls games use them is like arguing immortal guards that can't be killed is lorebreaking because they could always be killed in all previous games.

Come to think of it, the whole multiplayer aspect must be lore breaking then too! Wow, who'd a thought?

I'm not fussed about this suggestion one way or the other, but i find the lore argument on this is a real stretch. "Orcs can't be mages, they are warriors!" "All nords ever use are 2-handers, nothing else, cause lore!"

Except that most of the people in this thread arguing against meaningless races are actually saying the opposite of these highlighted sections. They are saying that is entirely reasonable for an Orc to be a mage, just just won't find it as inherently easy as a Altmer. The same thing goes for the nord example you cited.

Which is why we need soft caps back.

Foxic · September 2016

susmitds wrote: »

Firstly, you don't need to get a particular race to do crazy damage. I have seen Altmer stamina nightblades and Argonian DKs pull 55 k on Mantikora. Sure, it could have been 5k higher on a Khajiit, but that is just an extra. As along as you don't need to be the absolute best in either PvE or PvP, you will do great with anything.

I agree with the message but you lose alot of credibility pulling numbers out of your ass.

Show me a parse of an argonian or altmer pulling 55K on manti and I'll eat my foot

susmitds · September 2016

TotallyNotVos wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Firstly, you don't need to get a particular race to do crazy damage. I have seen Altmer stamina nightblades and Argonian DKs pull 55 k on Mantikora. Sure, it could have been 5k higher on a Khajiit, but that is just an extra. As along as you don't need to be the absolute best in either PvE or PvP, you will do great with anything.

I agree with the message but you lose alot of credibility pulling numbers out of your ass.

Show me a parse of an argonian or altmer pulling 55K on manti and I'll eat my foot

There is a 59 k Stam DK manticora DPS video on YouTube. That was on a Redguard, which deals 2.4% extra damage than standard classes. Do the math.

Asardes · September 2016

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

I once tried an Orc Mage in Morrowind... man, was he stupid!

Mages were quite stupid in Morrowind in general. They could only regenerate magicka by sleeping or gulping down potions. Or absorbing spells cast at them with Atronach star sign (was fixed when you created character) and some special gear you could get from quests. I played a Nord with Atronach but was more melee fighter. Restore stamina was stupid easy. Even putting 1p restrore stamina enchant on a gear piece (I had it on a belt) meant that you could spam jump and never run out. And man you could jump from one side of the island to the other. And even from Vvardenfell to Solstheim. Did I even mention infinite power alchemy potions? Speaking of #StaminaIsTooStrong and #BanCheaters in ESO

idk · September 2016

altemriel wrote: »

nope

+1

Zos has already said they will not permit picking and choosing each passive and I agree with them the current design is how if should be.

LaiTash · September 2016

I'm not fussed about this suggestion one way or the other, but i find the lore argument on this is a real stretch. ["Orcs can't be mages, they are warriors!"

Why, they can. They're just not as good at it as altmer.

arkansas_ESO · September 2016

susmitds wrote: »

TotallyNotVos wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Firstly, you don't need to get a particular race to do crazy damage. I have seen Altmer stamina nightblades and Argonian DKs pull 55 k on Mantikora. Sure, it could have been 5k higher on a Khajiit, but that is just an extra. As along as you don't need to be the absolute best in either PvE or PvP, you will do great with anything.

I agree with the message but you lose alot of credibility pulling numbers out of your ass.

Show me a parse of an argonian or altmer pulling 55K on manti and I'll eat my foot

There is a 59 k Stam DK manticora DPS video on YouTube. That was on a Redguard, which deals 2.4% extra damage than standard classes. Do the math.

You're forgetting about the extra regen a Redguard gets over an Argonian or Altmer, which allows them to invest more into damage gear and CP wise while still being able to sustain.

Again, softcaps or no softcaps, as long as there is a gap in performance between races, there will be a handful of races considered to be the best, and choosing anything else is akin to shooting yourself in the foot. I can't see why people would be in favor of this.

Tandor · September 2016

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Kendaric wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Again, this option would increase the amount of cosmetic options a player has access to while not changing the actual way the game plays at all. I can't see how increasing the amount of, again, purely cosmetic options a player has access to without shooting themselves in the foot is dumbing the game down at all, if anything it encourages more variety.

I stand by my point, if you're against this change, you're probably not in a position to see the full picture.

We are quite capable of seeing the full picture, believe it or not.
We just don't want meaningless races in a TES game, whether singleplayer or MMORPG. There are plenty of other MMORPGs out there where races are purely cosmetic, ESO is not one of them and neither should it be.

Again, you're probably not seeing the full picture. Until you've been in a raid and see everybody there is the same 2 or 3 races, or go into PVP where everybody is the same 3 or 4 races, you won't understand why this change would be for the better.

Elitist nonsense.

You're entitled to your opinions, others are entitled to theirs. Each is equally well-informed based on the player's approach to the game, and each is equally valid. What may be better for one may not be better for someone else, and may not be better for the game overall.

Lightninvash · September 2016

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Lightninvash wrote: »

ill take max hp from imperial max stam from imperial and max magicka from altmer and build a hybrid tank... or say magicka recovery from altmer magicka from altmer and reduced cost from Brenton. those couldn't be broken or anything

Nothing said anything about allowing you to mix and match racials, just that you'd be able to have Redguard racials on an altmer, or Imperial racials on an altmer, not some racials from a dunmer, some from an altmer, and some from a redguard all on one character.

Tandor wrote: »

No thanks, we don't need the game dumbed down any more.

The quote "Play the way you like" has generally been misquoted and misinterpreted as is evident in the original post. What it says on the back of the original ESO box under that heading is "Adventure alone or together with friends. The choice is yours to make." On the back of the TU box under that heading it says "Battle, craft, fish, steal, siege or explore. The choice is yours to make in a persistent Elder Scrolls world."

It's nothing to do with hand-picking your own skills or being able to achieve anything and everything with any conceivable build, yet that is what some players seem to believe it's about.

This wouldn't dumb down the game at all, it would just open up more cosmetic options. Again, everybody against this idea either seems to have not fully thought it through, or seems to think that lore is almighty and never changed, even though Bethesda's changed lore a LOT every time it suits them (*cough* Cyrodiil used to be a jungle *cough*)

@arkansas_ESO the title says let us choose our passives. that in it self says I want to pick what passives I want... so yeah it kind of does lmao

kargen27 · September 2016

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Again, you're probably not seeing the full picture. Until you've been in a raid and see everybody there is the same 2 or 3 races, or go into PVP where everybody is the same 3 or 4 races, you won't understand why this change would be for the better.

Nah we got it. You want to do some min/max cookie cutter build but look different than everybody else doing that same cookie cutter build.

ThePaleItalian · September 2016

You said Orcs were ugly.... That kind of hurts :'(

kongkim · September 2016

Guss you don't care for lore

Mady · September 2016

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

You said Orcs were ugly.... That kind of hurts :'(

Sorry :'(

ThePaleItalian · September 2016

Mady wrote: »

ThePaleItalian wrote: »

You said Orcs were ugly.... That kind of hurts :'(

Sorry :'(

Truth hurts. lol

QuebraRegra · September 2016

[.[/quote]

Which is why we need soft caps back.[/quote]

You stole my post... REPORTED!

Exactly this.

bebynnag · September 2016

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

TotallyNotVos wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Firstly, you don't need to get a particular race to do crazy damage. I have seen Altmer stamina nightblades and Argonian DKs pull 55 k on Mantikora. Sure, it could have been 5k higher on a Khajiit, but that is just an extra. As along as you don't need to be the absolute best in either PvE or PvP, you will do great with anything.

I agree with the message but you lose alot of credibility pulling numbers out of your ass.

Show me a parse of an argonian or altmer pulling 55K on manti and I'll eat my foot

There is a 59 k Stam DK manticora DPS video on YouTube. That was on a Redguard, which deals 2.4% extra damage than standard classes. Do the math.

You're forgetting about the extra regen a Redguard gets over an Argonian or Altmer, which allows them to invest more into damage gear and CP wise while still being able to sustain.

Again, softcaps or no softcaps, as long as there is a gap in performance between races, there will be a handful of races considered to be the best, and choosing anything else is akin to shooting yourself in the foot. I can't see why people would be in favor of this.

ah but what your forgetting is that an altmer or argonian, have naturally higher magic, which means they can activate igneoes weapons & get 5% stam back every 6 secconds.

like i said earlier (half way down page 1)

try looking at it from a diffrent perspective

i know someone who changed there 1st charcater (nord magic templar) to a breton & regrets it, because less health & they lost the reduced damage taken buff which now makes them 'too squishy'

ParaNostram · September 2016

This suggestion is dumb.

ManDraKE · September 2016

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Riiiiggghhhtttt. So every stam player can choose.

Max stam 10%.
Crit chance 8%
Stam recovery 10%

Good one.

i would pick the wood elf 21% stam recovery

newtinmpls · September 2016

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Again, you're probably not seeing the full picture. Until you've been in a raid and see everybody there is the same 2 or 3 races, or go into PVP where everybody is the same 3 or 4 races, you won't understand why this change would be for the better.

I am reading this, just shaking my head.

The point of an ES based MMORPG is to have an online game in the ES universe. In the ES universe, race matters. Granted that's changed in different games, and it's changed in different metas in ESO, but "chose your racial passive" has never been an appropriate part of it.

They may be unbalanced ... heck they absolutely ARE unbalanced. But they are Racial.

Which probably still won't "make sense" and @Iluvrien just nailed it:

Iluvrien wrote: »

Alright, let's try this once more, with feeling. It is perfectly possible for people to see the full picture that you are referring to... and still disagree with you. Let's see if the idea sticks this time.

I will argue for better balance.

I will never ever ever support pick racial passives.

Since there is a race change option... just do that then

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · September 2016

Race options would be great not all Nord are Axe swinging Heavy Armored Warriors having Mage, Rogue or Warrior option would be great. There is more then enough lore for non cookie cutters race bonus. Picking is Race Path I'm 100% but just picking what ever passives you want no.

LaiTash · September 2016

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Race options would be great not all Nord are Axe swinging Heavy Armored Warriors

Not all, yes, but most of them are.

Akrasjel · September 2016

Nope

Mojmir · September 2016

show me in the lore where those number are?

And by lore I guess every member of every race is EXACTLY the same?
Yea lore'yering is one of the things holding this game back.

Iluvrien · September 2016

Mojmir wrote: »

show me in the lore where those number are?

And by lore I guess every member of every race is EXACTLY the same?
Yea lore'yering is one of the things holding this game back.

So there are Dunmer are born without dark skin? Or Argonians without scales? Lamias with legs? Bretons with four eyes?

Variations within a particular race occur within a set range. All the racial passives do is indicate that range. This isn't lore holding things back, this is lore defining what things are.

Destruent · September 2016

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

TotallyNotVos wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Firstly, you don't need to get a particular race to do crazy damage. I have seen Altmer stamina nightblades and Argonian DKs pull 55 k on Mantikora. Sure, it could have been 5k higher on a Khajiit, but that is just an extra. As along as you don't need to be the absolute best in either PvE or PvP, you will do great with anything.

I agree with the message but you lose alot of credibility pulling numbers out of your ass.

Show me a parse of an argonian or altmer pulling 55K on manti and I'll eat my foot

There is a 59 k Stam DK manticora DPS video on YouTube. That was on a Redguard, which deals 2.4% extra damage than standard classes. Do the math.

You're forgetting about the extra regen a Redguard gets over an Argonian or Altmer, which allows them to invest more into damage gear and CP wise while still being able to sustain.

Again, softcaps or no softcaps, as long as there is a gap in performance between races, there will be a handful of races considered to be the best, and choosing anything else is akin to shooting yourself in the foot. I can't see why people would be in favor of this.

No DPS would ever sacrifice damage for sustain, race doesn't matter for this decicion. If you want high DPS, your healers/tanks will care for your sustain. Dunmer and Imperial are sustaining just fine in endgame-PvE, so this can't be an issue.

at OP:

inb4 Mag-DK with
- 7% more flame-dmg
- 4% more elemental dmg
- 10% max-magicka

#betterbalancedracialthannow

Mojmir · September 2016

Iluvrien wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

show me in the lore where those number are?

And by lore I guess every member of every race is EXACTLY the same?
Yea lore'yering is one of the things holding this game back.

So there are Dunmer are born without dark skin? Or Argonians without scales? Lamias with legs? Bretons with four eyes?

Variations within a particular race occur within a set range. All the racial passives do is indicate that range. This isn't lore holding things back, this is lore defining what things are.

Lol seriously? You what I meant,passives not appearance. I guess becoming as powerful as shalidor,a nord,with no magicka passives makes total lore sense than.

Nifty2g · September 2016

Move racials into star signs or something Just rename them
That way you can pick what race you want with what racial set you want - of course put this behind a gold sink or a crown store item, star sign respec

That way we can all play as our favorite races and not be hated on, and could see some pretty cool builds and such

@ZOS_RichLambert just and idea for to possibility

Abeille · September 2016

Mojmir wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

show me in the lore where those number are?

And by lore I guess every member of every race is EXACTLY the same?
Yea lore'yering is one of the things holding this game back.

So there are Dunmer are born without dark skin? Or Argonians without scales? Lamias with legs? Bretons with four eyes?

Variations within a particular race occur within a set range. All the racial passives do is indicate that range. This isn't lore holding things back, this is lore defining what things are.

Lol seriously? You what I meant,passives not appearance. I guess becoming as powerful as shalidor,a nord,with no magicka passives makes total lore sense than.

This should be achieved by putting the soft caps back.

Shalidor didn't become so powerful because he was born magically inclined. It was through severe dedication.

Iluvrien · September 2016

Mojmir wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

show me in the lore where those number are?

And by lore I guess every member of every race is EXACTLY the same?
Yea lore'yering is one of the things holding this game back.

So there are Dunmer are born without dark skin? Or Argonians without scales? Lamias with legs? Bretons with four eyes?

Variations within a particular race occur within a set range. All the racial passives do is indicate that range. This isn't lore holding things back, this is lore defining what things are.

Lol seriously? You what I meant,passives not appearance. I guess becoming as powerful as shalidor,a nord,with no magicka passives makes total lore sense than.

Passives and appearance are linked. That is the point. You want to play an Argonian? The means you get the scales, tail etc. and the passives. To decouple one from the other makes no sense.

Shalidor wasn't a great mage because he had Altmer passives. He was a great mage because he had an extraordinary mind, extraordinary willpower... and put in the work.

[Edit: Spelling of "mage"]

*Remove racial passives / let us choose passives*

Remove racial passives / let us choose passives