Remove racial passives / let us choose passives

Lightninvash · September 2016

ill take max hp from imperial max stam from imperial and max magicka from altmer and build a hybrid tank... or say magicka recovery from altmer magicka from altmer and reduced cost from Brenton. those couldn't be broken or anything

Tandor · September 2016

No thanks, we don't need the game dumbed down any more.

The quote "Play the way you like" has generally been misquoted and misinterpreted as is evident in the original post. What it says on the back of the original ESO box under that heading is "Adventure alone or together with friends. The choice is yours to make." On the back of the TU box under that heading it says "Battle, craft, fish, steal, siege or explore. The choice is yours to make in a persistent Elder Scrolls world."

It's nothing to do with hand-picking your own skills or being able to achieve anything and everything with any conceivable build, yet that is what some players seem to believe it's about.

AlnilamE · September 2016

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Riiiiggghhhtttt. So every stam player can choose.

Max stam 10%.
Crit chance 8%
Stam recovery 10%

Good one.

Yeah, that's what the OP means by "add more variety".

I like that you have to make choices in this game.

It would never achieve variety. It would give nothing else but pure stam and pure magika. May as well make that the only choice you need on toon creation.

I was agreeing with you. :-P

Joysheeped wrote: »

I don't think it is lore breaking for a character of a certain race having another race's racial paasives.

Anyway, I would love to heal as a Khajiit without being gkicked so I say yes : D

I'm sorry you get kicked for being Khajiit. This one would be pleased to have you heal her group.

arkansas_ESO · September 2016

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

I honestly see no reason why people would be opposed to this, doesn't change the meta at all while allowing for you to choose the race that you like instead of the race that works the best for your build.

Because it breaks lore. That alone is reason enough. The Elder Scrolls doesn't have races just so you can min/max.

Gameplay>lore. Having racials in the single player games made sense because you weren't competing with anybody else, but in an MMO like ESO you are. As an avid fan of the single player games, I'd much rather be able to make my orc a mage without severely gimping myself than to preserve the "sanctity of the lore."

Gameplay IS lore. This whole game cares more about its lore than the fact it's an MMO. Unfortunately, it also skates on thin ice at times to do things like One Tamriel. Flat-out breaking lore though? Never gonna happen. You may not care about the lore, but plenty of others do. This is The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited, not The Elder Scrolls Online: Races Unlimited.

Gameplay isn't lore, lore is lore and gameplay is gameplay. You shouldn't have to choose between playing as your favorite race and being competitive in PVE and PVP.

arkansas_ESO · September 2016

Lightninvash wrote: »

ill take max hp from imperial max stam from imperial and max magicka from altmer and build a hybrid tank... or say magicka recovery from altmer magicka from altmer and reduced cost from Brenton. those couldn't be broken or anything

Nothing said anything about allowing you to mix and match racials, just that you'd be able to have Redguard racials on an altmer, or Imperial racials on an altmer, not some racials from a dunmer, some from an altmer, and some from a redguard all on one character.

Tandor wrote: »

No thanks, we don't need the game dumbed down any more.

The quote "Play the way you like" has generally been misquoted and misinterpreted as is evident in the original post. What it says on the back of the original ESO box under that heading is "Adventure alone or together with friends. The choice is yours to make." On the back of the TU box under that heading it says "Battle, craft, fish, steal, siege or explore. The choice is yours to make in a persistent Elder Scrolls world."

It's nothing to do with hand-picking your own skills or being able to achieve anything and everything with any conceivable build, yet that is what some players seem to believe it's about.

This wouldn't dumb down the game at all, it would just open up more cosmetic options. Again, everybody against this idea either seems to have not fully thought it through, or seems to think that lore is almighty and never changed, even though Bethesda's changed lore a LOT every time it suits them (*cough* Cyrodiil used to be a jungle *cough*)

kargen27 · September 2016

Joysheeped wrote: »

I don't think it is lore breaking for a character of a certain race having another race's racial paasives.

Anyway, I would love to heal as a Khajiit without being gkicked so I say yes : D

Sure you would be a Khajiit on the outside, but inside you know you are really a Breton at heart. Living that lie is no way to go through life. Embrace your inner self and become the Breton you know you really are!

Tandor · September 2016

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Lightninvash wrote: »

ill take max hp from imperial max stam from imperial and max magicka from altmer and build a hybrid tank... or say magicka recovery from altmer magicka from altmer and reduced cost from Brenton. those couldn't be broken or anything

Nothing said anything about allowing you to mix and match racials, just that you'd be able to have Redguard racials on an altmer, or Imperial racials on an altmer, not some racials from a dunmer, some from an altmer, and some from a redguard all on one character.

Tandor wrote: »

No thanks, we don't need the game dumbed down any more.

The quote "Play the way you like" has generally been misquoted and misinterpreted as is evident in the original post. What it says on the back of the original ESO box under that heading is "Adventure alone or together with friends. The choice is yours to make." On the back of the TU box under that heading it says "Battle, craft, fish, steal, siege or explore. The choice is yours to make in a persistent Elder Scrolls world."

It's nothing to do with hand-picking your own skills or being able to achieve anything and everything with any conceivable build, yet that is what some players seem to believe it's about.

This wouldn't dumb down the game at all, it would just open up more cosmetic options. Again, everybody against this idea either seems to have not fully thought it through, or seems to think that lore is almighty and never changed, even though Bethesda's changed lore a LOT every time it suits them (*cough* Cyrodiil used to be a jungle *cough*)

It is designed to eliminate the differences between the races and by any common definition that is dumbing the game down. Hairstyles are cosmetic options, skills are not.

It's pretty arrogant to state that everyone who disagrees with your point of view hasn't fully thought it through.

Hallothiel · September 2016

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

I honestly see no reason why people would be opposed to this, doesn't change the meta at all while allowing for you to choose the race that you like instead of the race that works the best for your build.

Because it breaks lore. That alone is reason enough. The Elder Scrolls doesn't have races just so you can min/max.

Gameplay>lore. Having racials in the single player games made sense because you weren't competing with anybody else, but in an MMO like ESO you are. As an avid fan of the single player games, I'd much rather be able to make my orc a mage without severely gimping myself than to preserve the "sanctity of the lore."

Gameplay IS lore. This whole game cares more about its lore than the fact it's an MMO. Unfortunately, it also skates on thin ice at times to do things like One Tamriel. Flat-out breaking lore though? Never gonna happen. You may not care about the lore, but plenty of others do. This is The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited, not The Elder Scrolls Online: Races Unlimited.

Gameplay isn't lore, lore is lore and gameplay is gameplay. You shouldn't have to choose between playing as your favorite race and being competitive in PVE and PVP.

You have at least 8 character slots. Be brave & try something different & not fotm or the latest min/max build - be an Orc mage or a Khajiit healer & see what you can do. Damn the passives and just play.

And lore is one of the things that sets this game apart. So best not to mess with it.

Rykmaar · September 2016

I would rather them make the passives more lore accurate than let me pad my dunmer into god mode.

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO · September 2016

Soft caps, soft caps, soft caps.

notimetocare · September 2016

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

I honestly see no reason why people would be opposed to this, doesn't change the meta at all while allowing for you to choose the race that you like instead of the race that works the best for your build.

Because it breaks lore. That alone is reason enough. The Elder Scrolls doesn't have races just so you can min/max.

Gameplay>lore. Having racials in the single player games made sense because you weren't competing with anybody else, but in an MMO like ESO you are. As an avid fan of the single player games, I'd much rather be able to make my orc a mage without severely gimping myself than to preserve the "sanctity of the lore."

Then play a game not built upon lore. There are plenty out there where lore means nothing. But you are also deluded to belive race is that important.

notimetocare · September 2016

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

I honestly see no reason why people would be opposed to this, doesn't change the meta at all while allowing for you to choose the race that you like instead of the race that works the best for your build.

Because it breaks lore. That alone is reason enough. The Elder Scrolls doesn't have races just so you can min/max.

Gameplay>lore. Having racials in the single player games made sense because you weren't competing with anybody else, but in an MMO like ESO you are. As an avid fan of the single player games, I'd much rather be able to make my orc a mage without severely gimping myself than to preserve the "sanctity of the lore."

Gameplay IS lore. This whole game cares more about its lore than the fact it's an MMO. Unfortunately, it also skates on thin ice at times to do things like One Tamriel. Flat-out breaking lore though? Never gonna happen. You may not care about the lore, but plenty of others do. This is The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited, not The Elder Scrolls Online: Races Unlimited.

lol, what about One Tamriel is lorebreaking?

Tonturri · September 2016

I am confused as to why people I will likely never meet in-game (much less have them glance at my stats) would be so concerned about my Bosmer running around with 10% extra magicka. If someone could explain it to me, it would be most appreciated. Please detail how you would suffer as a result. You would not even know the difference unless I mentioned it.

Also as an RP'er - would someone refuse to RP with my Bosmer because the number representing her magicka pool is 10% bigger than some other Bosmer, somewhere?

LaiTash · September 2016

So that everyone is a Khajiit at the end? No way.

Actually, i'm all for being able to choose some traits, you know, fallout/arcanum style. But racial passives should stay. Devs have put so much effort to make an fantastically immersive mmo that almost feel like the true Elder Scrolls, would be a shame if they'd implemented this just to please minmaxers. Someone here said gameplay > lore. That's true for most modern MMOs that sacrificed everything in the name of gameplay and are perfectly balanced and shiny to the point where it feels dull and empty. Imperfection is what makes you beleive and dive in gameworld.

Tonturri wrote: »

Also as an RP'er - would someone refuse to RP with my Bosmer because the number representing her magicka pool is 10% bigger than some other Bosmer, somewhere?

No, but i'd prefer you had bosmer traits anyway. You could have that +10% magica from character traits i mentioned, no need to break lore for this.

binho · September 2016

yes please!!

There are too many redguard and high elfs around!

Chairo_Kuma · September 2016

Hahaha......nope.

Enemy-of-Coldharbour · September 2016

No!

Gallifreyy · September 2016

No. besides you can make any race to be magic or stamina if you really struggle with this concept maybe you should rethink how you even play the game. yes their statement is true with play how you want but that is meant to say not everything will be 50k dps, aint no stam sorc high elf is going to be pulling 50k dps by spamming frags. hybrid builds do "work" but they will never be the best or optimal. if you really struggle with concepts like this please just learn to play properly and stop trying to force your broken opinion on the forums.

sincerely, The Entire player base of ESO

MasterSpatula · September 2016

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ytCEuuW2_A

newtinmpls · September 2016

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Gameplay IS lore. This whole game cares more about its lore than the fact it's an MMO. Unfortunately, it also skates on thin ice at times to do things like One Tamriel. Flat-out breaking lore though? Never gonna happen. You may not care about the lore, but plenty of others do. This is The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited, not The Elder Scrolls Online: Races Unlimited.

I was trying to figure out how to express this when I saw the lovely articulate job you did.

Yes, this is ES.

That's why ... many ... of us are here at all.

arkansas_ESO · September 2016

Tandor wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Lightninvash wrote: »

ill take max hp from imperial max stam from imperial and max magicka from altmer and build a hybrid tank... or say magicka recovery from altmer magicka from altmer and reduced cost from Brenton. those couldn't be broken or anything

Nothing said anything about allowing you to mix and match racials, just that you'd be able to have Redguard racials on an altmer, or Imperial racials on an altmer, not some racials from a dunmer, some from an altmer, and some from a redguard all on one character.

Tandor wrote: »

No thanks, we don't need the game dumbed down any more.

The quote "Play the way you like" has generally been misquoted and misinterpreted as is evident in the original post. What it says on the back of the original ESO box under that heading is "Adventure alone or together with friends. The choice is yours to make." On the back of the TU box under that heading it says "Battle, craft, fish, steal, siege or explore. The choice is yours to make in a persistent Elder Scrolls world."

It's nothing to do with hand-picking your own skills or being able to achieve anything and everything with any conceivable build, yet that is what some players seem to believe it's about.

This wouldn't dumb down the game at all, it would just open up more cosmetic options. Again, everybody against this idea either seems to have not fully thought it through, or seems to think that lore is almighty and never changed, even though Bethesda's changed lore a LOT every time it suits them (*cough* Cyrodiil used to be a jungle *cough*)

It is designed to eliminate the differences between the races and by any common definition that is dumbing the game down. Hairstyles are cosmetic options, skills are not.

It's pretty arrogant to state that everyone who disagrees with your point of view hasn't fully thought it through.

Again, this option would increase the amount of cosmetic options a player has access to while not changing the actual way the game plays at all. I can't see how increasing the amount of, again, purely cosmetic options a player has access to without shooting themselves in the foot is dumbing the game down at all, if anything it encourages more variety.

I stand by my point, if you're against this change, you're probably not in a position to see the full picture.

Kendaric · September 2016

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Again, this option would increase the amount of cosmetic options a player has access to while not changing the actual way the game plays at all. I can't see how increasing the amount of, again, purely cosmetic options a player has access to without shooting themselves in the foot is dumbing the game down at all, if anything it encourages more variety.

I stand by my point, if you're against this change, you're probably not in a position to see the full picture.

We are quite capable of seeing the full picture, believe it or not.
We just don't want meaningless races in a TES game, whether singleplayer or MMORPG. There are plenty of other MMORPGs out there where races are purely cosmetic, ESO is not one of them and neither should it be.

arkansas_ESO · September 2016

Kendaric wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Again, this option would increase the amount of cosmetic options a player has access to while not changing the actual way the game plays at all. I can't see how increasing the amount of, again, purely cosmetic options a player has access to without shooting themselves in the foot is dumbing the game down at all, if anything it encourages more variety.

I stand by my point, if you're against this change, you're probably not in a position to see the full picture.

We are quite capable of seeing the full picture, believe it or not.
We just don't want meaningless races in a TES game, whether singleplayer or MMORPG. There are plenty of other MMORPGs out there where races are purely cosmetic, ESO is not one of them and neither should it be.

Again, you're probably not seeing the full picture. Until you've been in a raid and see everybody there is the same 2 or 3 races, or go into PVP where everybody is the same 3 or 4 races, you won't understand why this change would be for the better.

altemriel · September 2016

no offence dude, but do you understand why they are called racial passives??

that it is because they are racial-specific and you can not choose them therefore

?? You choose a race instead, which is ok for me.

susmitds · September 2016

Firstly, you don't need to get a particular race to do crazy damage. I have seen Altmer stamina nightblades and Argonian DKs pull 55 k on Mantikora. Sure, it could have been 5k higher on a Khajiit, but that is just an extra. As along as you don't need to be the absolute best in either PvE or PvP, you will do great with anything.

Skcarkden · September 2016

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

I honestly see no reason why people would be opposed to this, doesn't change the meta at all while allowing for you to choose the race that you like instead of the race that works the best for your build.

Because it breaks lore. That alone is reason enough. The Elder Scrolls doesn't have races just so you can min/max.

Gameplay>lore. Having racials in the single player games made sense because you weren't competing with anybody else, but in an MMO like ESO you are. As an avid fan of the single player games, I'd much rather be able to make my orc a mage without severely gimping myself than to preserve the "sanctity of the lore."

Gameplay IS lore. This whole game cares more about its lore than the fact it's an MMO. Unfortunately, it also skates on thin ice at times to do things like One Tamriel. Flat-out breaking lore though? Never gonna happen. You may not care about the lore, but plenty of others do. This is The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited, not The Elder Scrolls Online: Races Unlimited.

Arguing foregoing the racial traits is lore breaking because previous Elder Scrolls games use them is like arguing immortal guards that can't be killed is lorebreaking because they could always be killed in all previous games.

Come to think of it, the whole multiplayer aspect must be lore breaking then too! Wow, who'd a thought?

I'm not fussed about this suggestion one way or the other, but i find the lore argument on this is a real stretch. "Orcs can't be mages, they are warriors!" "All nords ever use are 2-handers, nothing else, cause lore!"

Asmodean · September 2016

I could agree with the removal of the racial passives for this particular game (as it's an MMO). It would deter the min/max crowd from brainwashing everyone else into picking what's "best" for a particular build, etc. And leave it purely to aesthetic preference.

Saying that - personal preference, and depth is important. And lore-wise the idea of certain races being better at certain things is cool. But maybe they shouldn't just static stat boosts?.

But the idea of choosing the racial passives makes no sense to be, personally lol.

Iluvrien · September 2016

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Kendaric wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Again, this option would increase the amount of cosmetic options a player has access to while not changing the actual way the game plays at all. I can't see how increasing the amount of, again, purely cosmetic options a player has access to without shooting themselves in the foot is dumbing the game down at all, if anything it encourages more variety.

I stand by my point, if you're against this change, you're probably not in a position to see the full picture.

We are quite capable of seeing the full picture, believe it or not.
We just don't want meaningless races in a TES game, whether singleplayer or MMORPG. There are plenty of other MMORPGs out there where races are purely cosmetic, ESO is not one of them and neither should it be.

Again, you're probably not seeing the full picture. Until you've been in a raid and see everybody there is the same 2 or 3 races, or go into PVP where everybody is the same 3 or 4 races, you won't understand why this change would be for the better.

Alright, let's try this once more, with feeling. It is perfectly possible for people to see the full picture that you are referring to... and still disagree with you. Let's see if the idea sticks this time.

Iluvrien · September 2016

Skcarkden wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

I honestly see no reason why people would be opposed to this, doesn't change the meta at all while allowing for you to choose the race that you like instead of the race that works the best for your build.

Because it breaks lore. That alone is reason enough. The Elder Scrolls doesn't have races just so you can min/max.

Gameplay>lore. Having racials in the single player games made sense because you weren't competing with anybody else, but in an MMO like ESO you are. As an avid fan of the single player games, I'd much rather be able to make my orc a mage without severely gimping myself than to preserve the "sanctity of the lore."

Gameplay IS lore. This whole game cares more about its lore than the fact it's an MMO. Unfortunately, it also skates on thin ice at times to do things like One Tamriel. Flat-out breaking lore though? Never gonna happen. You may not care about the lore, but plenty of others do. This is The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited, not The Elder Scrolls Online: Races Unlimited.

Arguing foregoing the racial traits is lore breaking because previous Elder Scrolls games use them is like arguing immortal guards that can't be killed is lorebreaking because they could always be killed in all previous games.

Come to think of it, the whole multiplayer aspect must be lore breaking then too! Wow, who'd a thought?

I'm not fussed about this suggestion one way or the other, but i find the lore argument on this is a real stretch. "Orcs can't be mages, they are warriors!" "All nords ever use are 2-handers, nothing else, cause lore!"

Except that most of the people in this thread arguing against meaningless races are actually saying the opposite of these highlighted sections. They are saying that is entirely reasonable for an Orc to be a mage, just just won't find it as inherently easy as a Altmer. The same thing goes for the nord example you cited.

Asardes · September 2016

For PvP is quite advantageous picking a stamina race like redguard or bosmer for a magicka build too and putting a few points in stamina, because breaking out from CC, rolling and blocking all eat stamina.

*Remove racial passives / let us choose passives*

Remove racial passives / let us choose passives