A public apology? Really?

Ch4mpTW · September 2016

e1team wrote: »

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Is this the post that everyone is making a fuss over? https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3344799/#Comment_3344799

To be honest I thought it was going to be far harsh and severe. I completely disagree with e1team on the suicide topic, but I'm not going to send him to the flaming torch death over it.

What e1team did was to show his complete and utter ignorance about the truth of mental illness, and what people have to deal with on a regular basic. The people who liked his post also showed their ignorance, but unfortunately we will never get to see who liked his post due to the anonymity.

e1team, Let me give you some education about the reality of suicide. This is coming from personal experience and someone who suffers from mental illness. We do not choose to be this emotional. Something happen in our brains to cause us to have strong emotional feelings. It could be a chemical imbalance or something else. I've tried every medication on the market to try to help me with my depression, but it only made it worst, and not better. I realize a few years ago that my body started rejecting an anti anxiety medication (Xanax/Ativan - benzodiazepines). This drug was once my friend now my arch enemy. This drug caused me to have strong suicidal feelings. All I could think of is how to kill myself. I've spent close to 3 days curled up into a fetal position on my floor fighting the impulsiveness of death and self destruction. I do not consider myself to be weak or stupid. I was drove to become suicidal due to a severe allergic reaction caused by the drug. This is common issue with anti depression drugs as well. Please look at the blackbox warning on an anti depression drug and you'll clearly see that sometimes it can cause someone to become suicidal. If you don't mind please read this article that the FDA released to the public.

http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/InformationbyDrugClass/ucm096273.htm

also please read this article http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/child-and-adolescent-mental-health/antidepressant-medications-for-children-and-adolescents-information-for-parents-and-caregivers.shtml

Please read this popular story about woman who choose to commit suicide to avoid going through a painful process of having terminal brain cancer.
http://www.lifenews.com/2014/11/02/brittany-maynard-the-29-year-old-with-brain-cancer-has-reportedly-killed-herself/

As for the concern OP that wanted to bring ZoS attention about a suicidal player. We don't know what was going on with the player. Maybe he is also experiencing a drug effect? Maybe hes experiencing tragedy in his life like a loss of a love one? Who knows. Suicide is not weak. Please educate yourself on the issue.

The big question is: How it all ended? You are here after all. It says a lot about you...

And yes sometimes its mental state, and sometimes external factor. In my case I was beaten by the whole class every day for four years, starting from fifth grade. Just because I was not country native. Ooh... I had suicidal thoughts, no doubt about that. But I am here. I chose life. I won.

snakester320 · September 2016

Zolexi wrote: »

My decision to remove you stands.
I said the the mail if the thread is closed you can talk to me and the other leader.
The comments you made were toxic and I have no interest in reinviting you anymore.
The fact that other people said the same thing I did, and you didn't even link the thread, means I can rest easy knowing I made the correct decision.
Our guild is full of amazing and lovely individuals, if you feel left out, then I'm not responsible for your actions and comments.
How hard is it to write, "I'm sorry that was insensitive"?

seriously leave your crap in the guild .. really you want some one to say sorry in a public forum what FN diff would that make??? whats next go on live tv to say im sorry for expressing an opinion.. BAH news flash kick him leave it at that!! and move on!! better things to hate on in forums than this rubbish!! To the OP move on and leave it theres other guilds out there clearly this one is a joke wanting you to publicly say sorry for offending some one.. its a online game ppl have the right to say what they want .. and youre always going to get some one abusing some one else ... Build a Bridge and Get over It!!

JD2013 · September 2016

As someone who does actually struggle (quite severely at times) with depression, I think what the guild did is quite intolerable.

I would much rather live in a world where the thought police don't control every aspect of life, and having an opinion that another person may not like doesn't will get people swarmed on by other people. Not that I ever go out of my way to say something that is offensive to people, of course not. I'm not that kind of a person.

But merely expressing thoughts that may be different from another person's thoughts is not a crime. Being offended is not a right. It is an opinion, and let us never forget that opinions can be ignored.

Haquor · September 2016

Zolexi wrote: »

My decision to remove you stands.
I said the the mail if the thread is closed you can talk to me and the other leader.
The comments you made were toxic and I have no interest in reinviting you anymore.
The fact that other people said the same thing I did, and you didn't even link the thread, means I can rest easy knowing I made the correct decision.
Our guild is full of amazing and lovely individuals, if you feel left out, then I'm not responsible for your actions and comments.
How hard is it to write, "I'm sorry that was insensitive"?

The internet is not a safe space. People should just learn to be responsible for thier own feelings and not demand everyone else be. Regardless of the content. People need to stop being so dam butthurt by the fact that the vast mojority of people here simply dgaf how you are or how you feel.

'Toxic' comments are only so because cry babies allow them to be.

Q the QQ

Zolexi · September 2016

Zolexi wrote: »

craftycarper73 wrote: »

i had to read the players comment to see what the fuss was about, and im sorry but i agree with the O/P.

and before anyone trys to bash me about being insensitive, then consider this.

my aunty lost her son, my cousin, in afghan 9 yrs ago fighting for his country, 5 years later she couldnt cope any longer, and ended her own life, leaving behind 2 other children, all grown up with there own lives, but still her children none the less.

at the time there was nothing but anger and disgust at what she did, doesnt mean we dont miss her, and we werent upset, of course we were but it was a cowardly act and cowardly way out.

she did the deed by saying nothing to no one, no one had a clue, people who want to commit suicide and mean it, dont say a word, they just do it, people who let it be known, want to be stopped, a cry for help if you like.

so from experience, the o/p is correct in his comment he made.

in respect of the guildmaster..

who made you god? who gives you the divine right to demand an apology? if you get that offended, i take it you dont go outside or watch tv in the case the material you hear or see offends you? as someone else said previous, offence is taken its never given. Time to grow up mate.

I already said I was wrong for that.

Haquor · September 2016

nordsavage wrote: »

e1team wrote: »

nordsavage wrote: »

Funny how you think you would have a place in Valhalla.

I wont succumb to pride by commenting on that.

You would have to be a warrior and video games do not count.

He would have to be warrior to succumb to pride? That doesnt make sense.

And remember... no matter how unique you think your real life experience is there are numerous of us here who are not impressed. And you know what i mean by that.

The Uninvited · September 2016

ISIS has the opinion that everyone on Earth that doesn't stand behind their beliefs should be murdered. But let's ignore it, after all it's just an opinion.

Banana · September 2016

EstelioVeleth wrote: »

Which ones the Kardashian. They look the same

Shad0wfire99 · September 2016

The Uninvited wrote: »

ISIS has the opinion that everyone on Earth that doesn't stand behind their beliefs should be murdered. But let's ignore it, after all it's just an opinion.

That's the connection you're making? Worst comparison ever.

The Uninvited · September 2016

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

ISIS has the opinion that everyone on Earth that doesn't stand behind their beliefs should be murdered. But let's ignore it, after all it's just an opinion.

That's the connection you're making? Worst comparison ever.

I was trying to make a point that, sometimes, opinions do matter and can't just simply be ignored.

snakester320 · September 2016

The Uninvited wrote: »

ISIS has the opinion that everyone on Earth that doesn't stand behind their beliefs should be murdered. But let's ignore it, after all it's just an opinion.

theres a point you go to and point you dont.. thread should be closed on that note!!

Skitttles · September 2016

Come join my guild OP, we don't have safe spaces or care about micro aggressions.

Shad0wfire99 · September 2016

The Uninvited wrote: »

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

ISIS has the opinion that everyone on Earth that doesn't stand behind their beliefs should be murdered. But let's ignore it, after all it's just an opinion.

That's the connection you're making? Worst comparison ever.

I was trying to make a point that, sometimes, opinions do matter and can't just simply be ignored.

That's true, but in this case that's a ridiculous thing to say.

The Uninvited · September 2016

snakester320 wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

ISIS has the opinion that everyone on Earth that doesn't stand behind their beliefs should be murdered. But let's ignore it, after all it's just an opinion.

theres a point you go to and point you dont.. thread should be closed on that note!!

But who decides the point you go to and the point you don't? That's what this whole discussion is about.

Agreed that the thread should be closed.

Shad0wfire99 · September 2016

The Uninvited wrote: »

snakester320 wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

ISIS has the opinion that everyone on Earth that doesn't stand behind their beliefs should be murdered. But let's ignore it, after all it's just an opinion.

theres a point you go to and point you dont.. thread should be closed on that note!!

But who decides the point you go to and the point you don't? That's what this whole discussion is about.

Agreed that the thread should be closed.

You're talking about people murdering others over beliefs. OP just stated an opinion and that's all.

notimetocare · September 2016

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Is this the post that everyone is making a fuss over? https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3344799/#Comment_3344799

To be honest I thought it was going to be far harsh and severe. I completely disagree with e1team on the suicide topic, but I'm not going to send him to the flaming torch death over it.

What e1team did was to show his complete and utter ignorance about the truth of mental illness, and what people have to deal with on a regular basic. The people who liked his post also showed their ignorance, but unfortunately we will never get to see who liked his post due to the anonymity.

e1team, Let me give you some education about the reality of suicide. This is coming from personal experience and someone who suffers from mental illness. We do not choose to be this emotional. Something happen in our brains to cause us to have strong emotional feelings. It could be a chemical imbalance or something else. I've tried every medication on the market to try to help me with my depression, but it only made it worst, and not better. I realize a few years ago that my body started rejecting an anti anxiety medication (Xanax/Ativan - benzodiazepines). This drug was once my friend now my arch enemy. This drug caused me to have strong suicidal feelings. All I could think of is how to kill myself. I've spent close to 3 days curled up into a fetal position on my floor fighting the impulsiveness of death and self destruction. I do not consider myself to be weak or stupid. I was drove to become suicidal due to a severe allergic reaction caused by the drug. This is common issue with anti depression drugs as well. Please look at the blackbox warning on an anti depression drug and you'll clearly see that sometimes it can cause someone to become suicidal. If you don't mind please read this article that the FDA released to the public.

http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/InformationbyDrugClass/ucm096273.htm

also please read this article http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/child-and-adolescent-mental-health/antidepressant-medications-for-children-and-adolescents-information-for-parents-and-caregivers.shtml

Please read this popular story about woman who choose to commit suicide to avoid going through a painful process of having terminal brain cancer.
http://www.lifenews.com/2014/11/02/brittany-maynard-the-29-year-old-with-brain-cancer-has-reportedly-killed-herself/

As for the concern OP that wanted to bring ZoS attention about a suicidal player. We don't know what was going on with the player. Maybe he is also experiencing a drug effect? Maybe hes experiencing tragedy in his life like a loss of a love one? Who knows. Suicide is not weak. Please educate yourself on the issue.

Sorry to burst your bubble but it normally os weakness. Killing yourself over sadness? Killing yourself to avoid pain?

I can grant the drug side effect, but most suicide is weakness. However, like with the brain cancer, weakness is note a bad outright.

The Uninvited · September 2016

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

snakester320 wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

ISIS has the opinion that everyone on Earth that doesn't stand behind their beliefs should be murdered. But let's ignore it, after all it's just an opinion.

theres a point you go to and point you dont.. thread should be closed on that note!!

But who decides the point you go to and the point you don't? That's what this whole discussion is about.

Agreed that the thread should be closed.

You're talking about people murdering others over beliefs. OP just stated an opinion and that's all.

No, I'm talking about their opinion that it's okay to murder other people over beliefs. If they would not actually do it, would you still feel they are entitled to that opinion and just ignore it? That's the point I was trying to make.

Edit: To clarify, I personally think the topic of suicide is also a point you don't go to. Especially on a game forum.

Bad_Company · September 2016

notimetocare wrote: »

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Is this the post that everyone is making a fuss over? https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3344799/#Comment_3344799

To be honest I thought it was going to be far harsh and severe. I completely disagree with e1team on the suicide topic, but I'm not going to send him to the flaming torch death over it.

What e1team did was to show his complete and utter ignorance about the truth of mental illness, and what people have to deal with on a regular basic. The people who liked his post also showed their ignorance, but unfortunately we will never get to see who liked his post due to the anonymity.

e1team, Let me give you some education about the reality of suicide. This is coming from personal experience and someone who suffers from mental illness. We do not choose to be this emotional. Something happen in our brains to cause us to have strong emotional feelings. It could be a chemical imbalance or something else. I've tried every medication on the market to try to help me with my depression, but it only made it worst, and not better. I realize a few years ago that my body started rejecting an anti anxiety medication (Xanax/Ativan - benzodiazepines). This drug was once my friend now my arch enemy. This drug caused me to have strong suicidal feelings. All I could think of is how to kill myself. I've spent close to 3 days curled up into a fetal position on my floor fighting the impulsiveness of death and self destruction. I do not consider myself to be weak or stupid. I was drove to become suicidal due to a severe allergic reaction caused by the drug. This is common issue with anti depression drugs as well. Please look at the blackbox warning on an anti depression drug and you'll clearly see that sometimes it can cause someone to become suicidal. If you don't mind please read this article that the FDA released to the public.

http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/InformationbyDrugClass/ucm096273.htm

also please read this article http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/child-and-adolescent-mental-health/antidepressant-medications-for-children-and-adolescents-information-for-parents-and-caregivers.shtml

Please read this popular story about woman who choose to commit suicide to avoid going through a painful process of having terminal brain cancer.
http://www.lifenews.com/2014/11/02/brittany-maynard-the-29-year-old-with-brain-cancer-has-reportedly-killed-herself/

As for the concern OP that wanted to bring ZoS attention about a suicidal player. We don't know what was going on with the player. Maybe he is also experiencing a drug effect? Maybe hes experiencing tragedy in his life like a loss of a love one? Who knows. Suicide is not weak. Please educate yourself on the issue.

Sorry to burst your bubble but it normally os weakness. Killing yourself over sadness? Killing yourself to avoid pain?

I can grant the drug side effect, but most suicide is weakness. However, like with the brain cancer, weakness is note a bad outright.

You forgot to say "I think". You're not an expert on the matter, otherwise you wouldn't say such things. Suicide is not weakness. It may not be the answer for you, but for some it is the only way out of something worse than you could ever imagine. And I hope you -nor anyone else, I wish- never have to deal with these things.

snakester320 · September 2016

The Uninvited wrote: »

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

snakester320 wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

ISIS has the opinion that everyone on Earth that doesn't stand behind their beliefs should be murdered. But let's ignore it, after all it's just an opinion.

theres a point you go to and point you dont.. thread should be closed on that note!!

But who decides the point you go to and the point you don't? That's what this whole discussion is about.

Agreed that the thread should be closed.

You're talking about people murdering others over beliefs. OP just stated an opinion and that's all.

No, I'm talking about their opinion that it's okay to murder other people over beliefs. If they would not actually do it, would you still feel they are entitled to that opinion and just ignore it? That's the point I was trying to make.

then make one that doesnt revolve around terror or suicide because you going about it all wrong !! maybe 3rd reports a charm!!

Ch4mpTW · September 2016

notimetocare wrote: »

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Is this the post that everyone is making a fuss over? https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3344799/#Comment_3344799

To be honest I thought it was going to be far harsh and severe. I completely disagree with e1team on the suicide topic, but I'm not going to send him to the flaming torch death over it.

What e1team did was to show his complete and utter ignorance about the truth of mental illness, and what people have to deal with on a regular basic. The people who liked his post also showed their ignorance, but unfortunately we will never get to see who liked his post due to the anonymity.

e1team, Let me give you some education about the reality of suicide. This is coming from personal experience and someone who suffers from mental illness. We do not choose to be this emotional. Something happen in our brains to cause us to have strong emotional feelings. It could be a chemical imbalance or something else. I've tried every medication on the market to try to help me with my depression, but it only made it worst, and not better. I realize a few years ago that my body started rejecting an anti anxiety medication (Xanax/Ativan - benzodiazepines). This drug was once my friend now my arch enemy. This drug caused me to have strong suicidal feelings. All I could think of is how to kill myself. I've spent close to 3 days curled up into a fetal position on my floor fighting the impulsiveness of death and self destruction. I do not consider myself to be weak or stupid. I was drove to become suicidal due to a severe allergic reaction caused by the drug. This is common issue with anti depression drugs as well. Please look at the blackbox warning on an anti depression drug and you'll clearly see that sometimes it can cause someone to become suicidal. If you don't mind please read this article that the FDA released to the public.

http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/InformationbyDrugClass/ucm096273.htm

also please read this article http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/child-and-adolescent-mental-health/antidepressant-medications-for-children-and-adolescents-information-for-parents-and-caregivers.shtml

Please read this popular story about woman who choose to commit suicide to avoid going through a painful process of having terminal brain cancer.
http://www.lifenews.com/2014/11/02/brittany-maynard-the-29-year-old-with-brain-cancer-has-reportedly-killed-herself/

As for the concern OP that wanted to bring ZoS attention about a suicidal player. We don't know what was going on with the player. Maybe he is also experiencing a drug effect? Maybe hes experiencing tragedy in his life like a loss of a love one? Who knows. Suicide is not weak. Please educate yourself on the issue.

Sorry to burst your bubble but it normally os weakness. Killing yourself over sadness? Killing yourself to avoid pain?

I can grant the drug side effect, but most suicide is weakness. However, like with the brain cancer, weakness is note a bad outright.

I agree 100%. There are people fighting to live, after enduring all types of horrible medical setbacks. People fighting to live in rough neighborhoods, or from government oppression. People out here in this world getting bullied and punked for years, and have only known experiences of negativity and emotions of pain and sadness — and yet they press on with their heads raised to the sky. And absolutely refuse to submit to death from self-pity, and they live on. I salute those people. I respect those people to the tee. Rather than the option of violence or self-inflicted harm, they refuse to take an easy way out of this world. They press on, and believe that greater things await them. That is strength to the fullest.

The cold reality of life is that to live is to suffer, bruh. To survive is to press on accepting this fact, and "make it" however you can. Whether you have literally all odds against you, and all your "walls" are closing in at alarming speeds. With all your options of salvation are cut off. To have the mentality that if there is a will, there is a way is the key to opening survival's gates. And the proof is all around us. Each and every single day. Whether it be in the form of human, bird, insect, etc.

raidentenshu_ESO · September 2016

e1team wrote: »

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Is this the post that everyone is making a fuss over? https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3344799/#Comment_3344799

To be honest I thought it was going to be far harsh and severe. I completely disagree with e1team on the suicide topic, but I'm not going to send him to the flaming torch death over it.

What e1team did was to show his complete and utter ignorance about the truth of mental illness, and what people have to deal with on a regular basic. The people who liked his post also showed their ignorance, but unfortunately we will never get to see who liked his post due to the anonymity.

e1team, Let me give you some education about the reality of suicide. This is coming from personal experience and someone who suffers from mental illness. We do not choose to be this emotional. Something happen in our brains to cause us to have strong emotional feelings. It could be a chemical imbalance or something else. I've tried every medication on the market to try to help me with my depression, but it only made it worst, and not better. I realize a few years ago that my body started rejecting an anti anxiety medication (Xanax/Ativan - benzodiazepines). This drug was once my friend now my arch enemy. This drug caused me to have strong suicidal feelings. All I could think of is how to kill myself. I've spent close to 3 days curled up into a fetal position on my floor fighting the impulsiveness of death and self destruction. I do not consider myself to be weak or stupid. I was drove to become suicidal due to a severe allergic reaction caused by the drug. This is common issue with anti depression drugs as well. Please look at the blackbox warning on an anti depression drug and you'll clearly see that sometimes it can cause someone to become suicidal. If you don't mind please read this article that the FDA released to the public.

http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/InformationbyDrugClass/ucm096273.htm

also please read this article http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/child-and-adolescent-mental-health/antidepressant-medications-for-children-and-adolescents-information-for-parents-and-caregivers.shtml

Please read this popular story about woman who choose to commit suicide to avoid going through a painful process of having terminal brain cancer.
http://www.lifenews.com/2014/11/02/brittany-maynard-the-29-year-old-with-brain-cancer-has-reportedly-killed-herself/

As for the concern OP that wanted to bring ZoS attention about a suicidal player. We don't know what was going on with the player. Maybe he is also experiencing a drug effect? Maybe hes experiencing tragedy in his life like a loss of a love one? Who knows. Suicide is not weak. Please educate yourself on the issue.

The big question is: How it all ended? You are here after all. It says a lot about you...

And yes sometimes its mental state, and sometimes external factor. In my case I was beaten by the whole class every day for four years, starting from fifth grade. Just because I was not country native. Ooh... I had suicidal thoughts, no doubt about that. But I am here. I chose life. I won.

Yes I am here today, but that doesn't mean anything. While my suicidal impulsiveness was somewhat strong... it is 10x stronger for other people. Sometimes people can't resist it like I did when I was having my severe allergic reaction to the drug that I was on at the time.

The Uninvited · September 2016

snakester320 wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

snakester320 wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

ISIS has the opinion that everyone on Earth that doesn't stand behind their beliefs should be murdered. But let's ignore it, after all it's just an opinion.

theres a point you go to and point you dont.. thread should be closed on that note!!

But who decides the point you go to and the point you don't? That's what this whole discussion is about.

Agreed that the thread should be closed.

You're talking about people murdering others over beliefs. OP just stated an opinion and that's all.

No, I'm talking about their opinion that it's okay to murder other people over beliefs. If they would not actually do it, would you still feel they are entitled to that opinion and just ignore it? That's the point I was trying to make.

then make one that doesnt revolve around terror or suicide because you going about it all wrong !! maybe 3rd reports a charm!!

What are you reporting me for? For stating an example that opinions sometimes do matter and can't just simply be ignored?

And the topic revolves around OP's opinion about suicide, so that's something that can't actually be ignored in this discussion.

I personally think the topic of suicide is also a point you don't go to. Especially on a game forum.

The Uninvited · September 2016

I deliberately chose a touchy subject (ISIS) for the comparison as I knew it would provoke a reaction. Apparently, this was too touchy for some.

But the same goes for the subject of suicide for some people. And that's what we have to keep in mind and why I think this discussion doesn't belong on this forum.

That's all I'm trying to say here.

Iluvrien · September 2016

JD2013 wrote: »

As someone who does actually struggle (quite severely at times) with depression, I think what the guild did is quite intolerable.

I would much rather live in a world where the thought police don't control every aspect of life, and having an opinion that another person may not like doesn't will get people swarmed on by other people. Not that I ever go out of my way to say something that is offensive to people, of course not. I'm not that kind of a person.

Having an opinion that other people disagree with will not get you "swarmed". Exercising your freedom to post it in a (semi)public place means that other people get to do the same. If you are free to post your opinion, others are also free to disagree with it.

JD2013 wrote: »

But merely expressing thoughts that may be different from another person's thoughts is not a crime. Being offended is not a right. It is an opinion, and let us never forget that opinions can be ignored.

Nobody in the thread seems to be suggesting that it is a crime. People are suggesting that it shouldn't be exempt from accountability. The OP can post whatever the heck they like, including this passive-aggressive non-apology thread, but the idea that the GM (or anyone else on this forum) should be precluded from taking action based on such posts is just as bad as saying the OP didn't have the right to post in the first place. Thought police again.

EDIT: I'd also say that this is a good debate to be having. It goes to the core of what we expect from the ESO community both on the forums and as Guild members.

JD2013 · September 2016

Iluvrien wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

As someone who does actually struggle (quite severely at times) with depression, I think what the guild did is quite intolerable.

I would much rather live in a world where the thought police don't control every aspect of life, and having an opinion that another person may not like doesn't will get people swarmed on by other people. Not that I ever go out of my way to say something that is offensive to people, of course not. I'm not that kind of a person.

Having an opinion that other people disagree with will not get you "swarmed". Exercising your freedom to post it in a (semi)public place means that other people get to do the same. If you are free to post your opinion, others are also free to disagree with it.

Agree to disagree here. If you look at social media as a whole these days, having an opinion that one person takes offence to gets a person swarmed, doxxed, things like that.

JD2013 wrote: »

But merely expressing thoughts that may be different from another person's thoughts is not a crime. Being offended is not a right. It is an opinion, and let us never forget that opinions can be ignored.

Nobody in the thread seems to be suggesting that it is a crime. People are suggesting that it shouldn't be exempt from accountability. The OP can post whatever the heck they like, including this passive-aggressive non-apology thread, but the idea that the GM (or anyone else on this forum) should be precluded from taking action based on such posts is just as bad as saying the OP didn't have the right to post in the first place. Thought police again.

No, I agree there should be accountability. Far too few people take responsibility for their actions these days. But always remember, offence is always taken, and never given.

EDIT: I'd also say that this is a good debate to be having. It goes to the core of what we expect from the ESO community both on the forums and as Guild members.

Agree. I love a good debate.

Judas Helviaryn · September 2016

So I've read through both major opinions, as well as the OP's initial comment that sparked this entire debacle. I am 100% right behind @Zolexi in his decision to remove a potentially toxic member from his community. The OP's thoughts on suicide, as well as the action he took expressing his view in a potentially sensitive time for the person in distress, are wholly ignorant and potentially damaging. This isn't about being the thought police, and dispensing with so-called "Rights" on the internet, it is a guild leader's prerogative to curate and uphold the integrity of his or her community, a community that has rallied around the leader, by removing bad seeds.

Having someone with such a fundamental lack of judgment and education about one serious topic makes you draw connections to other aspects in that person's character and moral fiber. It's natural to extrapolate.

Taking the OP's original comment at face-value, it's painfully apparent he does not understand the underlying science, actual proven science, behind depression and what drives a person to pull the trigger. That is completely okay. Ignorance is not something to be punished, it's something you eradicate through education. Ignorance becomes a problem when the subject in question refuses to open his mind, and acts upon his ignorance to the detriment of any other soul.

Don't think for a second that disparaging comments, such as claiming a suicidal person is weak, won't be the last straw on that poor soul's back. Sure, you could argue that if they were that far to begin with, it would happen eventually. That is true in some cases, but there is always a chance. Just because a negative outcome seems inevitable does NOT mean you should abandon all effort to avoid that outcome. In polarizing events like these, if you're not against it, you're for it. There is no middle ground.

I couldn't live with myself if I knew that someone took his own life because I expressed a view that they are weak. In our society, as evidenced by the OP's own demeanor, weakness is equated to worthlessness. It's taboo, you're not supposed to show weakness at all. What a lot of you probably don't realize is that many, many suicidal people believe the exact same thing. They believe they're weak, and it's not an unreasonable leap to worthless in their minds.

My whole point is, I support freedom of speech. I support your right to have your opinion and yes, state it too.
This cuts both ways.

Your rights end where another's begin.

There is legal precedent in inciting suicide in another.
It is a crime in many jurisdictions.

A crime is an incursion upon another's rights.
Did the OP commit this crime? No. But there's potential there, and any sane person would distance himself from the OP.

As an aside, to reference Valhalla in any serious context, in the manner the OP did, shows a serious disconnect from reality and responsibility. Shame.

Suter1972 · September 2016

stock-photo-frightened-man-eating-popcorn-while-watching-movie-in-cinema-theater-256357771.jpg

azura_star · September 2016

FML.

The Uninvited · September 2016

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

So I've read through both major opinions, as well as the OP's initial comment that sparked this entire debacle. I am 100% right behind @Zolexi in his decision to remove a potentially toxic member from his community. The OP's thoughts on suicide, as well as the action he took expressing his view in a potentially sensitive time for the person in distress, are wholly ignorant and potentially damaging. This isn't about being the thought police, and dispensing with so-called "Rights" on the internet, it is a guild leader's prerogative to curate and uphold the integrity of his or her community, a community that has rallied around the leader, by removing bad seeds.

Having someone with such a fundamental lack of judgment and education about one serious topic makes you draw connections to other aspects in that person's character and moral fiber. It's natural to extrapolate.

Taking the OP's original comment at face-value, it's painfully apparent he does not understand the underlying science, actual proven science, behind depression and what drives a person to pull the trigger. That is completely okay. Ignorance is not something to be punished, it's something you eradicate through education. Ignorance becomes a problem when the subject in question refuses to open his mind, and acts upon his ignorance to the detriment of any other soul.

Don't think for a second that disparaging comments, such as claiming a suicidal person is weak, won't be the last straw on that poor soul's back. Sure, you could argue that if they were that far to begin with, it would happen eventually. That is true in some cases, but there is always a chance. Just because a negative outcome seems inevitable does NOT mean you should abandon all effort to avoid that outcome. In polarizing events like these, if you're not against it, you're for it. There is no middle ground.

I couldn't live with myself if I knew that someone took his own life because I expressed a view that they are weak. In our society, as evidenced by the OP's own demeanor, weakness is equated to worthlessness. It's taboo, you're not supposed to show weakness at all. What a lot of you probably don't realize is that many, many suicidal people believe the exact same thing. They believe they're weak, and it's not an unreasonable leap to worthless in their minds.

My whole point is, I support freedom of speech. I support your right to have your opinion and yes, state it too.
This cuts both ways.

Your rights end where another's begin.

There is legal precedent in inciting suicide in another.
It is a crime in many jurisdictions.

A crime is an incursion upon another's rights.

As an aside, to reference Valhalla in any serious context, in the manner the OP did, shows a serious disconnect from reality and responsibility. Shame.

Wish I could give you an Awesome and Agree at the same time.

clayandaudrey_ESO · September 2016