Tanking is the most flexible role, but nobody wants to tank :'(

code65536 · September 2016

I love tanking. I hate PUGing as a tank.

Why? Because tanks are at the mercy of the rest of your group. If your group sucks, and you're a DPS, you can carry it. If the group sucks and you're a healer, you can carry it (though with a bit more difficulty than if you were a DPS). If you're a tank and your group sucks, you can't carry them through unless you're an offensive saptank (I use Kag+Bahraha on my saptank), and even then, it's not going to be as easy.

I've been in PUG runs where my saptank did over 50% of the group damage... in her heavy armor full tank setup. Now imagine a group like that, except on a traditional DK tank that has 1/4 the DPS potential of a saptank.

I almost never PUG with my DK tank--I always run with friends or guildies. I do PUG a lot with my saptank, since she can do a lot of DPS while in her full tank setup (or, depending on the dungeon, I'll just have her in her DPS gear with sword-and-board back bar configured for tanking), except I don't run many pledges these days.

Curragraigue · September 2016

I enjoy the challenge of a PUG tank.

Not hard to convert a DPS into an off tank OP. You should be able to tank most Vet Dungeons with a DPS off tank.

Schemering · September 2016

The reason that there are not much tanks outside trials is that they are not needed and in most dungeons its a burden to have a tank along. I do have a tank char but besides an occasional cradle of shadows run its not doing anything, for most dungeons im asked to come tank on my magicka nb in light armor as it does 15k-25k extra dps.

I dont tank often on my real tank so i still like the occasional real tanking but most of my friends that do tank more often are bored (besides tanking 12 person veteran trials) when they do it.

Brrrofski · September 2016

clocksstoppe wrote: »

OP just because tanks are fun to BUILD doesn't mean they are fun to play.

In the end, all tanks just have a cheese tanking skill or 2 and hold block while taunting the boss. Tank GAMEPLAY is garbage.

Nah, not really. Go try that in a vet trial and see how far just holding block gets you.

In fact, make a tank and go tank ICP with no healer. Record and post please.

Schemering · September 2016

Brrrofski wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

OP just because tanks are fun to BUILD doesn't mean they are fun to play.

In the end, all tanks just have a cheese tanking skill or 2 and hold block while taunting the boss. Tank GAMEPLAY is garbage.

Nah, not really. Go try that in a vet trial and see how far just holding block gets you.

In fact, make a tank and go tank ICP with no healer. Record and post please.

It is rather easy to tank prison without healer unfortunately, with 3dd everthing is dead really fast. Same with no tank, 3dd and 1 healer. And without healer and tank it becomes only faster and easier; with 4 dd everything melts almost instantly

Fortunately vet trials are different:) they need skilled tanks

Jade1986 · September 2016

If I could do even a tiny bit of damage as a tank I would love it more. I have a orc tank, but the damage is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo low, I can only play for a short time.

Contraptions · September 2016

As long as the ultimate goal when clearing a dungeon is to "kill everything as fast as possible", tanks will never be as popular as dps. Not saying they aren't fun, but their role means they are nevertheless more dependent on their group. And bad groups can be an absolute nightmare to tank with.

Silver_Strider · September 2016

There are a few reasons no one plays tanks, outside of trials.

It takes FOREVER to kill things sometimes as a tank. Tank damage can be virtually nonexistent if you go the high health, sturdy, resource builds and it's never fun to whittle down enemy health for several minutes at a time. This is made worse in PvP, where your already low damage is even lowered due to Battlespirit and with how much penetration is in this game, your armor amounts to nothing for the most part, leaving you helpless.
Too stressful sometimes. There are always "those" people that like to do big pulls and expect you to hold aggro on ALL enemies and get all upset when you don't/can't. Even if you choice to /ignore them, there are always more to replace them and it gets frustrating having to deal with it.
They aren't necessary. Outside of Trials, most players nowadays don't really feel the need for tanks in Dungeons when 4 DPS, or 3 DPS + Healer can complete most other content without much hassle.
ZOS hates tanks. Be it thru the block nerf, how useless HA was for the longest time, the changing of CP locations or whatever, it feels like ZOS just hates tanks and are doing everything in their power to screw them over.

Think that about covers it. I tank as a necessity for Trials and I do enjoy trolling people in PvP with my NB Sap Tank but really, it's a thankless and painful job to undertake for the most part.

Woeler · September 2016

A tank who thinks his job is easy does not understand what a tank can do in this game.

Gargath · September 2016

I disagree with OP.
Today, as a tank, I was trying to find a group for Silver/Gold/Random in EP pledge area. I witnessed many tanks on general chat trying to find a group, and just spamming LFG, but apparently there was no interest in tanks.
I was spamming LFG too and found no group. Also tried to find one in my guilds, however it was early so only few members online. Eventually found a pug by Group Finder and completed Silver and random. Not by LFG though.

btw
I have a nice DK Nord pure tank, based on health/health regen, great sustain for me and the group.
I have a nice MagPlar pure healer, endless magicka resources from Warlock/Lich, spaming spells, double healing staffs.
I have a nice DD alts, based on either magicka or stamina, based on aoe without spamming light attacks.

Anyway, tanking is boring in eso, to be a good tank for me means the damage output is poor. Great sustain, low damage = time consuming pve, slow progress in questing. Some people in pugs trying to tank on NB archer with 20-25k health, taunting bosses and any mobs around, then standing on red, spamming light attacks, and grief at healer why they had to die...

Imo this game needs an official in-game tutorial at the beggining, for everyone to explain clearly the basics and requirements for all classes in certain activities like dungeons/trials. Something to restrain inexperienced players running alone without guild (thus nobody who can learn them) from doing their tank/healer/dd roles in a way that can ruin the others' fun.
My 50cents.

Peekachu99 · September 2016

A good tank:

-Contols the most dangerous threats.
-Locks down and controls other adds via talons, encase, daedric mines, caltrops. (On my Sorc and DK tanks I can ensure that not a single mob moves from the cluster in which I trap them. It's as close to WoW style tanking as you can get.)
-Intercepts boss charges or otherwise protects against aggro-free abilities and moves, by using: Guard, Barrier, actively blocking the random charge from RoM's Lizard Man boss (yes a tank can block that), etc..
-Leads the group through shortcuts to avoid unecessary conflict and to expidite the experience.
-Has enough survivabiliy and sustain to resurrect everyone from what looks to be a wipe.
-Provides secondary healing/ shielding if needed; supplementary and different than the above--which is a critical situation. Can offheal successfully if the healer goes down.
-Provides group wide buffs: warhorn, igneous weapons, etc.
-Can survive one-shots or 40K+ hits.
-Can swap on the fly to a burstier or execution skillset while still holding aggro.

Dps don't have the tools, gear or would want to sacrifice valuable slots to handle all of these secondary tasks. A good tank is never a hindrance to a group and always an addition, allowing the other roles to perform to the absolute maximum of their capabilities without worry. Also the TTK for solo content isn't as bad as some of you are making it out to be and you can pull absolutely massive mobs without worry for your safety. Also, tanks can solo pretty much any world boss without issues and usually excel in VMSA due to their survivability.

If you think tanks are unecessary for group content, you've never had a good one. They should make every run easier. I don't think I'd play ESO if I couldn't tank. ZoS did a great job with the tanking meta, and the nerfs weren't nearly as bad as people made out. If anything it's encouraged more active and thoughtful approaches to content.

Woeler · September 2016

Peekachu99 wrote: »

A good tank:

-Contols the most dangerous threats.
-Locks down and controls other adds via talons, encase, daedric mines, caltrops. (On my Sorc and DK tanks I can ensure that not a single mob moves from the cluster in which I trap them. It's as close to WoW style tanking as you can get.)
-Intercepts boss charges or otherwise protects against aggro-free abilities and moves, by using: Guard, Barrier, actively blocking the random charge from RoM's Lizard Man boss (yes a tank can block that), etc..
-Leads the group through shortcuts to avoid unecessary conflict and to expidite the experience.
-Has enough survuvability and sustain to resurrect everyone from what looks to be a wipe.
-Provides secondary healing/ shielding if needed; supplementary and different than the above--which is a critical situation. Can offheal successfully if the healer goes down.
-Provides group wide buffs: warhorn, igneous weapons, etc.
-Can survive one-shots or 40K+ hits.
-Can swap on the fly to a burstier or execution skillset while still holding aggro.

Dps don't have the tools, gear or would want to sacrifice valuable slots to handle all of these secondary tasks. A good tank is never a hindrance to a group and always an addition, allowing the other roles to perform to the absolute maximum of their capabilities without worry. Also the TTK for solo content isn't as bad as some of you are making it out to be and you can pull absolutely massive mobs without worry for your safety. Also, tanks can solo pretty much any world boss without issues and usually excel in VMSA due to their survivability.

If you think tanks are unecessary for group content, you've never had a good one. They should make every run easier. I don't think I'd play ESO if I couldn't tank. ZoS did a great job with the tanking meta, and the nerfs weren't nearly as bad as people made out. If anything it's encouraged more active and thoughtful approaches to content.

Someone who understands. Here, have an "agree".

kylewwefan · September 2016

I have 308 skill points on my main niteblade. I can change armor and skills to tank or DPS at will. There's very few pug dungeons I've done that would have been better off with no tank.

I'd also say, it comes in waves. Some days everyone in undaunted area wants to tank and you have a time finding DPS. Many times it's hard to find a healer. Sometimes you get a liar that chooses all roles to get in a group quicker and then the group struggles.

Maybe it's different on ps4; not as many highly skilled players that pug.

Joysheeped · September 2016

Well said, OP~ I like tanking too, it is really a shame that few people tank in this game >_<

That being said, it is understandable as tanks' mistakes are easily observed and this role is the most difficult to start with because you need to have so much knowledge on the whole dungeon/ trial to tank effectively.

But... if you tank nicely (e.g. are horny)...

Your DDs love you.
Your healers love you.
Your main/ off tank loves you.
Your group loves you.
Your guilds love you.
Everyone loves you.

So everyone let's start tanking today! XD

sigsergv · September 2016

clocksstoppe wrote: »

OP just because tanks are fun to BUILD doesn't mean they are fun to play.

In the end, all tanks just have a cheese tanking skill or 2 and hold block while taunting the boss. Tank GAMEPLAY is garbage.

In the end, all DPS just have a cheese DPS skill or 2 and use them while tank taunting the boss. Tank GAMEPLAY is garbage.

Pandorii · September 2016

Tanks are not needed for like 80 percent of dungeons. You're better off running with a 3rd DPS and just bursting through everything.

Tanks don't really have a place in PvP. (Not to be confused with heavy armored tanky build trolls.)

Tanks are hard to level up, and they are hard to use in solo PvE content.

*Mind you, I'm talking about the kind of tank that focuses on survivability. Now a days, certain sets, are shifting towards tanks that can do damage too. Still:

DPS w/strong self-heals > Tank w/damage ability...

Cryptical · September 2016

Gargath wrote: »

Imo this game needs an official in-game tutorial at the beggining, for everyone to explain clearly the basics and requirements for all classes in certain activities like dungeons/trials. Something to restrain inexperienced players running alone without guild (thus nobody who can learn them) from doing their tank/healer/dd roles in a way that can ruin the others' fun.
My 50cents.

There should be a series of instanced mini adventures that teach the basics of each role.

When it's just you and the prophet, you both teleport somewhere. He uses cc and heals and calls out the things you should be doing as dps. It's quite close to solo play, just the two of you, but introduces the skill of minding the healer's location and status.

Add lyris, and the three of you teleport somewhere, prophet does heals, lyris tanks, they further explain dps.

Swap tharn for the prophet, he hands you a resto staff. Lyris tanks, tharn uses mag dps, they explain your obligations as healer. Much sarcasm from tharn ensues.

Swap sai for lyris. Tharn does mag dps, sai does melee dps, they hand you a sword and board and teach you tanking. Tharn reaches new levels of biting wit, sai ponders his worth as a living creature since you are so unskilled yet still rescued him.

By level 30, coherent consistent instruction will have been given to everyone.

mtwiggz · September 2016

Pure tanks are 100% not needed for any content in this game minus vDSA and trials. That's the sad truth and the sad reality of why you don't see many tanks around.

Most healers can double as a heal/tank, in some situations DPS can throw on a taunt and tank as well. The boss mechanics in any vet dungeon don't really call for any need of a tank, as long as players know the mechanics. Sure having a tank will make the run more smooth, but having 3 DPS and a healer or heal/tank makes things much, much, quicker.

Peekachu99 · September 2016

Pandorii wrote: »

Tanks are not needed for like 80 percent of dungeons. You're better off running with a 3rd DPS and just bursting through everything.

Tanks don't really have a place in PvP. (Not to be confused with heavy armored tanky build trolls.)

Tanks are hard to level up, and they are hard to use in solo PvE content.

*Mind you, I'm talking about the kind of tank that focuses on survivability. Now a days, certain sets, are shifting towards tanks that can do damage too. Still:

DPS w/strong self-heals > Tank w/damage ability...

Swap out the taunt (for an execute, ideally) and every other trick for lock-downs, survivabiliy and control still remain. Tanking in PVP, it isn't your job to be the epic DPS, it's the same as in every other group situation: make it easier for the DPS to kill things. Nothing like popping talons, encase or negate magik on a vampire swarm and having your teammates nuke the buggers.

Lots of good guides on PVP tank builds, too, for those who are interested--though it's better to make your own build and flavour.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN · September 2016

code65536 wrote: »

I love tanking. I hate PUGing as a tank.

Why? Because tanks are at the mercy of the rest of your group. If your group sucks, and you're a DPS, you can carry it. If the group sucks and you're a healer, you can carry it (though with a bit more difficulty than if you were a DPS). If you're a tank and your group sucks, you can't carry them through unless you're an offensive saptank (I use Kag+Bahraha on my saptank), and even then, it's not going to be as easy.

I've been in PUG runs where my saptank did over 50% of the group damage... in her heavy armor full tank setup. Now imagine a group like that, except on a traditional DK tank that has 1/4 the DPS potential of a saptank.

I almost never PUG with my DK tank--I always run with friends or guildies. I do PUG a lot with my saptank, since she can do a lot of DPS while in her full tank setup (or, depending on the dungeon, I'll just have her in her DPS gear with sword-and-board back bar configured for tanking), except I don't run many pledges these days.

Yes I hate PUG tanking with a passion. The other night was the last time I will ever attempt it. Elitist pigs who probably shouldn't even be in PUG groups anyway make it even worse.

Mortehl · September 2016

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

I love tanking. I hate PUGing as a tank.

Why? Because tanks are at the mercy of the rest of your group. If your group sucks, and you're a DPS, you can carry it. If the group sucks and you're a healer, you can carry it (though with a bit more difficulty than if you were a DPS). If you're a tank and your group sucks, you can't carry them through unless you're an offensive saptank (I use Kag+Bahraha on my saptank), and even then, it's not going to be as easy.

I've been in PUG runs where my saptank did over 50% of the group damage... in her heavy armor full tank setup. Now imagine a group like that, except on a traditional DK tank that has 1/4 the DPS potential of a saptank.

I almost never PUG with my DK tank--I always run with friends or guildies. I do PUG a lot with my saptank, since she can do a lot of DPS while in her full tank setup (or, depending on the dungeon, I'll just have her in her DPS gear with sword-and-board back bar configured for tanking), except I don't run many pledges these days.

Yes I hate PUG tanking with a passion. The other night was the last time I will ever attempt it. Elitist pigs who probably shouldn't even be in PUG groups anyway make it even worse.

I don't mind tanking pugs. I usually can make a few people who don't normally play with a skilled tank happy for one nights pledge. I frequently get thanked in private messages and I try to help people with build advice when they ask.

Chew_Magna · September 2016

I admit, I HATED tanking in ESO when I started playing because it just seemed wrong how they went about it. But it grew on me. I've tanked with all four classes now, mag and stam builds, and I like it. My main that I stick with is a stamblade tank.

I still prefer healing though. As a healer I'm far more capable of saving a bad group, plus the sheer number of bad healers out there is shocking (I can't count how many times I get healers focused more on dps than anything else while the party drops like flies). I'll take a bad tank over a bad healer any day. Granted I've saved many wipes while tanking and being the last man standing, but still, while healing I can save a wipe while keeping most, if not all, the group alive. I guess I'm just better at healing stupid than tanking alongside stupid lol.

Soriana · September 2016

I keep hearing everyone state that tanks aren't necessary for 80% of the normal/Vet dungeons yet every time I take my pure tank through silver and/or gold, I get nothing but thank you's for such and easy run, thanks for making that so quick, thanks for a great job, etc., etc.

Face melting dps thank me due to not having to kite mobs while they burn them down.

Mediocre dps thank me because it allows them time to work on their rotation without worrying about wiping.

And horrid dps thank me because I pick their butts up off the ground time after time!

Healers love it when a good tank can control the situation without dps going in first and making a *** show of a pull. Makes heals job SOOOOOOOO much easier.

I love tanking and won't be giving it up any time soon!

Jade1986 · September 2016

Gargath wrote: »

I disagree with OP.
Today, as a tank, I was trying to find a group for Silver/Gold/Random in EP pledge area. I witnessed many tanks on general chat trying to find a group, and just spamming LFG, but apparently there was no interest in tanks.
I was spamming LFG too and found no group. Also tried to find one in my guilds, however it was early so only few members online. Eventually found a pug by Group Finder and completed Silver and random. Not by LFG though.

btw
I have a nice DK Nord pure tank, based on health/health regen, great sustain for me and the group.
I have a nice MagPlar pure healer, endless magicka resources from Warlock/Lich, spaming spells, double healing staffs.
I have a nice DD alts, based on either magicka or stamina, based on aoe without spamming light attacks.

Anyway, tanking is boring in eso, to be a good tank for me means the damage output is poor. Great sustain, low damage = time consuming pve, slow progress in questing. Some people in pugs trying to tank on NB archer with 20-25k health, taunting bosses and any mobs around, then standing on red, spamming light attacks, and grief at healer why they had to die...

Imo this game needs an official in-game tutorial at the beggining, for everyone to explain clearly the basics and requirements for all classes in certain activities like dungeons/trials. Something to restrain inexperienced players running alone without guild (thus nobody who can learn them) from doing their tank/healer/dd roles in a way that can ruin the others' fun.
My 50cents.

We also need a sticky on the forums on " how to get competitive " . Same thing they did in SWTOR.

Liofa · September 2016

To those who say tanks are just taking aggro and hold block , you never had a good tank .

I have Invigorating Drain to increase ultigen . Keeping Heroic Slash with 100% uptime to reduce boss' damage . Use Engulfing Flames if there are no magdks in group . Chains , talons . Keeping boss stable and make it look away from group . Alkosh (3010 armor reduction) , 5 piece torug with infused crusher sword (2529 armor reduction) . I decrease armor of enemy by more than 10k with results in 15-16% damage increase against it . Also healing myself with Burning Embers when healer is on pressure and others with Echoing Vigor with a Igneous Shield burst to my healing . If your tank is holding block all the time , I pity your group . Your group must suck .

Cheers ,

Liofa

FLuFFyxMuFFiN · September 2016

Mortehl wrote: »

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

I love tanking. I hate PUGing as a tank.

Why? Because tanks are at the mercy of the rest of your group. If your group sucks, and you're a DPS, you can carry it. If the group sucks and you're a healer, you can carry it (though with a bit more difficulty than if you were a DPS). If you're a tank and your group sucks, you can't carry them through unless you're an offensive saptank (I use Kag+Bahraha on my saptank), and even then, it's not going to be as easy.

I've been in PUG runs where my saptank did over 50% of the group damage... in her heavy armor full tank setup. Now imagine a group like that, except on a traditional DK tank that has 1/4 the DPS potential of a saptank.

I almost never PUG with my DK tank--I always run with friends or guildies. I do PUG a lot with my saptank, since she can do a lot of DPS while in her full tank setup (or, depending on the dungeon, I'll just have her in her DPS gear with sword-and-board back bar configured for tanking), except I don't run many pledges these days.

Yes I hate PUG tanking with a passion. The other night was the last time I will ever attempt it. Elitist pigs who probably shouldn't even be in PUG groups anyway make it even worse.

I don't mind tanking pugs. I usually can make a few people who don't normally play with a skilled tank happy for one nights pledge. I frequently get thanked in private messages and I try to help people with build advice when they ask.

I have just been having horrible PUG experiences lately which has just caused me to give up

Chew_Magna · September 2016

Soriana wrote: »

I keep hearing everyone state that tanks aren't necessary for 80% of the normal/Vet dungeons yet every time I take my pure tank through silver and/or gold, I get nothing but thank you's for such and easy run, thanks for making that so quick, thanks for a great job, etc., etc.

Agreed. Sure a tank isn't necessary for a lot of stuff if you have a group that knows what it's doing. But very often that isn't the case. I do a lot of dungeons, it's what I spend most of my time in the game doing. I'd estimate that maybe 10% of the groups I get could manage without a tank, even higher CP groups on normal dungeons. There's just too many bad players out there.

The_Duke · September 2016

i only make tanks and Ive been playing since ps4 launch. My main is a Sap tank and my alt is a sorc tank. I run a stamblade tank in pvp (no black rose, reactive or malucheese used) I just leveled up a mag DK tank and now im half way on my stamplar tank.

Dubhliam · September 2016

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Tanking is awful

Ah, you want all the fun for yourself.

Wifeaggro13 · September 2016

Here is the problem as you approach the Bottle neck of end game you start to realize the previous vet content did nothing to prepare you for this. Tank becomes a vigor , and war horn bot V trial mobs have immunites so your Utility becomes about self healing Ulti generation for horn. the diffculty is there as far as knowledge timing and situational awareness doubles. But when you start playing the end game espcially with the Pros the build gets very very narrow , and paitence gets short for your learning curve.

Personaly im still learning in the hist Dungeons whats bashable and whats not the finer points so i can get the skins. Most Elite players want the tank running Vigor and primarily 3 dps with spot healing. the game is built around DPS and avoiding red. Not much fun for utility , or CC builds. Tanking in this game is all over the place. For most of the game its DPS with a taunt. It lacks Aggro managment taunt is either on or off. And having two tanks is counter productive because if two tanks taunt the same mob the mob becomes immune so for a game that is primarily based on you spamming a rotation well...., Also in early ESO you could not have more then one taunt active at a time. If you had three biggies the previous taunt dropped.