Champion System Ability Review

Ffastyl · May 2016

I beg to differ. Merchant Favored and Treasure Hunter are useful to players who engage in group content and exploration. Saving 10% on repairs adds up over time, especially for raiders who tackle ESO's most difficult content. Treasure Hunter on the other hand increases the quality level of all items found in chests. Even if the loot is not desired, the improvement items gained from deconstruction will be.

The introduction of Shadow Ward is desirable because it provides a second worthwhile star to invest in to acquire Treasure Hunter.

CP5 · May 2016

Ffastyl wrote: »

I beg to differ. Merchant Favored and Treasure Hunter are useful to players who engage in group content and exploration. Saving 10% on repairs adds up over time, especially for raiders who tackle ESO's most difficult content. Treasure Hunter on the other hand increases the quality level of all items found in chests. Even if the loot is not desired, the improvement items gained from deconstruction will be.

The introduction of Shadow Ward is desirable because it provides a second worthwhile star to invest in to acquire Treasure Hunter.

On my tank health regen and cost reduction are far more valuable than those passives are worth in my opinion, cutting down on that for block reduction is a bad move.

Sandman929 · May 2016

I would love to see Infusion in The Lord replaced with a Max Health buff. 10-15% would be good. I think it's a good place for it with Heavy Armor Focus and Bastion in the same branch, and it would be a start toward undoing the horror that was inflicted on Blazing Shield.

UltimaJoe777 · June 2016

As the passives in Warrior Constellations stand right now you may as well switch around Light Armor Focus and Heavy Armor Focus as it would make more sense than the switches you did for DB. partly due to said switches. Also move Reinforced and Invigorating Bash to The Lady and put Unchained and Critical Leech in their place. I suppose it would also make sense to swap Spell Shield and Expert Defender.

KloudKotuzai · June 2016

There should also be like an Auto attack(AA)/basic attack star or tree.

swift: giving you more attack speed. X%
fighter: reducing how long it takes to cast a heavy X%
caster: on hit affects effectiveness of how likely it is able to be applied increased by X%
life warrior: effectiveness of auto attack life steal (to give AA builds more sustain)X%
restrain: reduce stam/magicka regain an enemy has per auto attack X%

PASSIVES that help basic attack builds who don't really depend on pools as much.

1. reduce targets armor per AA (-2.5%) up to a maximum of 25% for 5 seconds
2. you have 15% chance to reduce enemy movement speed by 40% for 1.5 sec when using an AA
3. 75 cp : after killing an enemy with an auto attack gain health back equal to 50% of the final attack.
4. 120cp : 50% damage is shared up to 2 more enemies nearby

this is an idea of a tree that can make AA builds a lot more viable.

Kalifas · July 2016

The ceiling should never raise or you get power creep at some point.
Remove Health, Stamina, and Magicka attribute bonuses from the champion system globally

There can't be tight group content when you can be a jack of all trades
Limit Thief to 167 CP, Warrior to 167 CP, Mage to 167 CP with the cap at 501.
Each subsequent cap raise will allow 167 more CP to be allocated into each of the three separate constellations.

Stacking should give a bonus but not 25% more than 0.
Limit all CP passives to 10% for 50 points.
Limit all CP passives to 15% for 100 points.
Obviously it couldn't be static or the percentage would be insane at Champion Point 3600

Limiting total cp gear cap points by 30 is bad because it limits potential too much and raises the gear ilvl to often
The gear cap should match the character champion point cap as 501.

Raise the gear cap and character point cap at the same rate like below and I explain why

One thing that ZoS CP formula doesn't take into account is that regardless of what each CP cost, an extreme casual or someone just coming into the game will not want to or will not grind a big amount of XP to be able to participate in endgame. There is a belief that all the good stuff comes at endgame. What happens when the cap at some point raises to 3000 and a player first joins the game? It's the same thing levels do, if you're not the same level you can't play together.

Capping veteran players who play alot is enough to keep things fair. Penalizing them for playing the game more is not the right thing to do. Penalizing a newer player for just starting or playing the game less is not right. So how do you avoid both being penalized and still allow a veteran player who plays alot to keep progressing?

Allow consistent players to keep progressing as much as they want towards the Total Cap of 3600.
Every CP raise boost whoever is under the previous cap to the previous cap total.
That way Mr.Casual or newbie is never below 501 CP regardless of the complete CP total of 3600.
And Mr.Veteran Hardcore is wherever he is based on his playtime, 600, 1356, 2200, 3600, but due to a cap he never is super powerful in content compared to Mr.Casual or newbie.
Everyone gets to play together as long as both players are competent in mechanics.

Raising the gear cap in 20-30 CP increments every 3 months or longer will never keep the drive alive for a hardcore veteran to stick around. He has is his foot on the gas going 300-501 MPH and you are limiting the car to 160 MPH. 20-30 CP increments will also be hard on a casual to midcore because the gear cap is a moving goalpost that most players including the hardcore veterans feel like they cannot feel progression long enough. The casual might think they like the 160 MPH limit but that is only because he knows he cannot invest the exuberant amounts of time a veteran hardcore can. As soon as that gear cycle starts changing every quarter or so I guarantee you will see complaints in the forums. Sixth months to Nine months is a pretty good amount of time for gear to stay relevant but not feel like no new higher progression is coming.

Oh look, here comes the worries now.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/276344/future-gear-and-future-cp

Gear cap is always what the previous character CP cap ended at.SO when the 2ND Character CP raise of 1002 happens the Gear CP cap will be 501 CP. So everyone can access all content.
1ST Cap= Is currently 160, can't go back on this one
2ND Cap= 501 CP
3RD Cap= 1002 CP
4TH Cap= 1503 CP
5Th Cap= 2004 CP
6Th Cap= 2505 CP
7Th Cap= 3006 CP
Final Cap= 3600 CP

First cap is 501 CP. Which stays for 6 Months.
0-100= Enlightenment Boost +300%
101-200= Enlightenment Boost + 300%
201-300= Enlightenment Boots +250%
301-400= Enlightenment Boost + 200%
401-501= Enlightenment Boost +150%

2ND Cap is 1002 CP. Which stays for 6 Months.Players under the previous cap get bumped to 501 CP.
0-100= Enlightenment Boost +300%
101-200= Enlightenment Boost + 300%
201-300= Enlightenment Boots +250%
301-400= Enlightenment Boost + 200%
401-501= Enlightenment Boost +150%

3RD Cap is 1503 CP. Which stays for 6 Months.Players under the previous cap get bumped to 1002 CP.
0-100= Enlightenment Boost +300%
101-200= Enlightenment Boost + 300%
201-300= Enlightenment Boots +250%
301-400= Enlightenment Boost + 200%
401-501= Enlightenment Boost +150%

4TH Cap is 2004 CP. Which stays for 6 Months.Players under the previous cap get bumped to 1503 CP.
0-100= Enlightenment Boost +300%
101-200= Enlightenment Boost + 300%
201-300= Enlightenment Boots +250%
301-400= Enlightenment Boost + 200%
401-501= Enlightenment Boost +150%

5TH Cap is 2505 CP. Which stays for 6 Months.Players under the previous cap get bumped to 2004 CP.
0-100= Enlightenment Boost +300%
101-200= Enlightenment Boost + 300%
201-300= Enlightenment Boots +250%
301-400= Enlightenment Boost + 200%
401-501= Enlightenment Boost +150%

6TH Cap is 3006 CP. Which stays for 6 Months.Players under the previous cap get bumped to 2505 CP.
0-100= Enlightenment Boost +300%
101-200= Enlightenment Boost + 250%
201-300= Enlightenment Boots +250%
301-400= Enlightenment Boost + 200%
401-501= Enlightenment Boost +150%

7TH Cap is 3600 CP. Which stays for 6 Months.Players under the previous cap get bumped to 3006 CP.
0-100= Enlightenment Boost +300%
101-200= Enlightenment Boost + 300%
201-300= Enlightenment Boots +250%
301-400= Enlightenment Boost + 200%
401-501= Enlightenment Boost +150%

That is 42 Months or 3 years and 6 months of leveling. If you think of that like levels, and each CP cap only took as long as leveling 1-50, something required to access endgame and progress. That is like leveling a class to Level 420. Who would want to level a class to Level 420 to access elder content? Unless the experience gains were phenomenal, not many. CP shouldn't feel like a chore or countless levels. It should just come naturally and swift as a side note to the actual content.

EsoRecon · July 2016

REMOVE THE CHAMPION SYSTEM! plz

UltimaJoe777 · August 2016

EsoRecon wrote: »

REMOVE THE CHAMPION SYSTEM! plz

potirondb16_ESO · August 2016

EsoRecon wrote: »

REMOVE THE CHAMPION SYSTEM! plz

Champion system is actually interesting as it afford to limit the max level increase which also lead to less grinding for material and gear. The main issue with champion system is that a lot of the dps increase comes from it, and that it is actually a very important aspect of everyone game.

The revert of Champion point into a more, skill base approach or a package bonus would actually be interesting, but anything more then that may lead to some issue as more grinding and less progression.

ClassicIX · August 2016

Wrobel you should go check out my heavy armor rant.

Elmour0Fudd · August 2016

so how do you open the champion traits above lvl 10 as all my traits are above lvl 10 and the next item is supposable open but I can''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''t open them
is there a reason

potirondb16_ESO · August 2016

Elmour0Fudd wrote: »

so how do you open the champion traits above lvl 10 as all my traits are above lvl 10 and the next item is supposable open but I can''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''t open them
is there a reason

I'm not a 100% sure about your issue, but most likely when you open the champion tree (from the taskbar on top of the screen). You will have acces to champion system.

Note that gaining champion point is only possible on character over level 50

Then as you gain champion point those are split in 3 main category : Green for ressource management, Red for Defense and Blue for Offense. As you gain a new champion point you gain one point for a specific category and then the next champion point you'll gain will appear into the next one.

After that each category are once again split into 3 tree, which are represented by the different constellation (and mundus stone). With those tree also come specific bonus which are unlock by putting points into that specific tree. Those bonus are allocated as follow :

First Bonus : 10 Champion points spend in the same tree
Second Bonus : 30 Champion points spend in the same tree
Third Bonus : 75 Champion points spend in the same tree
Fourth Bonus : 120 Champion Points spend in the same tree

Overall in order to get each bonus you'll have to gather a lot more champion point since they are split inbetween categoy. To unlock the first bonus you'll have to have a minimum of 30 Cp, and then 90, 225, and 360.

So if I understand what you mean, you say that all the traits are over level 10, but it might required you to get over level 30 in order to get the next bonus you are talking about. Is it possible you haven't ?

Sorry if this didn't help you, sure hope it did !

Wifeaggro13 · September 2016

Wrobel wrote: »

Calling all ESO forum posters! We are currently reviewing the Champion System bonuses and would love hear your feedback on them. Our goals for this review are:
Ensure bonuses have a counter weight

Improve infrequently selected bonuses

Effectively communicate all bonuses so it’s easier to understand what they’re doing

Ensure every bonus has a counter weight:
For the Champion System, every offensive bonus should have a defensive counterpart and vice versa. For example: Offensive players can get increased spell penetration from Spell Erosion, while defensive players can get increased spell resistance from Spell Shield.

Improve infrequently selected bonuses:
Some of the Champion Point stars are much less popular than others. It’s not intended that all specs are equally useful, but they should be somewhat useful for some playstyle. Nourishing is a great example of a passive we are looking at in our review. It’s in the same constellation as Quick Recovery and gives a similar bonus of increased healing. However, Nourishing only works every 45 seconds when you can use a potion and Quick Recovery works all the time on all abilities, from both ally and self cast sources.

Effectively communicate all bonuses so it's easier to understand what they are doing:
It’s unclear exactly how some Champion passives work just by reading their tooltips. For example, Spell Erosion and Piercing are looking at the attackers stats instead of the defenders so the number don't end up being what you may expect. We’ll be cleaning up instances of tooltips like this so they are easy to understand.

We would love to hear what your top three changes would be to the Champion bonuses. Keep in mind the criteria above, and as always, please keep things constructive!

I would like to see some expansion on the system. not giving more points into a passive , perhaps expanding each constellation to unlock a new tree that has active abilities. The ge system needs to be enriched and expanded. False lvl cap raising through The CP system is quite boring.

Elmour0Fudd · September 2016

Kalifas wrote: »

The ceiling should never raise or you get power creep at some point.

Remove Health, Stamina, and Magicka attribute bonuses from the champion system globally

There can't be tight group content when you can be a jack of all trades

Limit Thief to 167 CP, Warrior to 167 CP, Mage to 167 CP with the cap at 501.

Each subsequent cap raise will allow 167 more CP to be allocated into each of the three separate constellations.

Stacking should give a bonus but not 25% more than 0.

Limit all CP passives to 10% for 50 points.

Limit all CP passives to 15% for 100 points.

Obviously it couldn't be static or the percentage would be insane at Champion Point 3600

Limiting total cp gear cap points by 30 is bad because it limits potential too much and raises the gear ilvl to often

The gear cap should match the character champion point cap as 501.

Raise the gear cap and character point cap at the same rate like below and I explain why

One thing that ZoS CP formula doesn't take into account is that regardless of what each CP cost, an extreme casual or someone just coming into the game will not want to or will not grind a big amount of XP to be able to participate in endgame. There is a belief that all the good stuff comes at endgame. What happens when the cap at some point raises to 3000 and a player first joins the game? It's the same thing levels do, if you're not the same level you can't play together.

Capping veteran players who play alot is enough to keep things fair. Penalizing them for playing the game more is not the right thing to do. Penalizing a newer player for just starting or playing the game less is not right. So how do you avoid both being penalized and still allow a veteran player who plays alot to keep progressing?

Allow consistent players to keep progressing as much as they want towards the Total Cap of 3600.
Every CP raise boost whoever is under the previous cap to the previous cap total.
That way Mr.Casual or newbie is never below 501 CP regardless of the complete CP total of 3600.
And Mr.Veteran Hardcore is wherever he is based on his playtime, 600, 1356, 2200, 3600, but due to a cap he never is super powerful in content compared to Mr.Casual or newbie.
Everyone gets to play together as long as both players are competent in mechanics.

Raising the gear cap in 20-30 CP increments every 3 months or longer will never keep the drive alive for a hardcore veteran to stick around. He has is his foot on the gas going 300-501 MPH and you are limiting the car to 160 MPH. 20-30 CP increments will also be hard on a casual to midcore because the gear cap is a moving goalpost that most players including the hardcore veterans feel like they cannot feel progression long enough. The casual might think they like the 160 MPH limit but that is only because he knows he cannot invest the exuberant amounts of time a veteran hardcore can. As soon as that gear cycle starts changing every quarter or so I guarantee you will see complaints in the forums. Sixth months to Nine months is a pretty good amount of time for gear to stay relevant but not feel like no new higher progression is coming.

Oh look, here comes the worries now.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/276344/future-gear-and-future-cp

Gear cap is always what the previous character CP cap ended at.SO when the 2ND Character CP raise of 1002 happens the Gear CP cap will be 501 CP. So everyone can access all content.
1ST Cap= Is currently 160, can't go back on this one
2ND Cap= 501 CP
3RD Cap= 1002 CP
4TH Cap= 1503 CP
5Th Cap= 2004 CP
6Th Cap= 2505 CP
7Th Cap= 3006 CP
Final Cap= 3600 CP

First cap is 501 CP. Which stays for 6 Months.
0-100= Enlightenment Boost +300%
101-200= Enlightenment Boost + 300%
201-300= Enlightenment Boots +250%
301-400= Enlightenment Boost + 200%
401-501= Enlightenment Boost +150%

2ND Cap is 1002 CP. Which stays for 6 Months.Players under the previous cap get bumped to 501 CP.
0-100= Enlightenment Boost +300%
101-200= Enlightenment Boost + 300%
201-300= Enlightenment Boots +250%
301-400= Enlightenment Boost + 200%
401-501= Enlightenment Boost +150%

3RD Cap is 1503 CP. Which stays for 6 Months.Players under the previous cap get bumped to 1002 CP.
0-100= Enlightenment Boost +300%
101-200= Enlightenment Boost + 300%
201-300= Enlightenment Boots +250%
301-400= Enlightenment Boost + 200%
401-501= Enlightenment Boost +150%

4TH Cap is 2004 CP. Which stays for 6 Months.Players under the previous cap get bumped to 1503 CP.
0-100= Enlightenment Boost +300%
101-200= Enlightenment Boost + 300%
201-300= Enlightenment Boots +250%
301-400= Enlightenment Boost + 200%
401-501= Enlightenment Boost +150%

5TH Cap is 2505 CP. Which stays for 6 Months.Players under the previous cap get bumped to 2004 CP.
0-100= Enlightenment Boost +300%
101-200= Enlightenment Boost + 300%
201-300= Enlightenment Boots +250%
301-400= Enlightenment Boost + 200%
401-501= Enlightenment Boost +150%

6TH Cap is 3006 CP. Which stays for 6 Months.Players under the previous cap get bumped to 2505 CP.
0-100= Enlightenment Boost +300%
101-200= Enlightenment Boost + 250%
201-300= Enlightenment Boots +250%
301-400= Enlightenment Boost + 200%
401-501= Enlightenment Boost +150%

7TH Cap is 3600 CP. Which stays for 6 Months.Players under the previous cap get bumped to 3006 CP.
0-100= Enlightenment Boost +300%
101-200= Enlightenment Boost + 300%
201-300= Enlightenment Boots +250%
301-400= Enlightenment Boost + 200%
401-501= Enlightenment Boost +150%

That is 42 Months or 3 years and 6 months of leveling. If you think of that like levels, and each CP cap only took as long as leveling 1-50, something required to access endgame and progress. That is like leveling a class to Level 420. Who would want to level a class to Level 420 to access elder content? Unless the experience gains were phenomenal, not many. CP shouldn't feel like a chore or countless levels. It should just come naturally and swift as a side note to the actual content.

I like the idea and explanation to it as the method of capping would mess up my play badly for my starter character
which is a Breton sorcerer with DM,DS,SC with heavy Armour, Stave or Sword and Shield
Weapon skills are high in level or 50 and all craft's are 50 other traits to but not important here
Now started cold harbour on june 4th at lvl 1 am currently lvl 50 CP 215 on Sept. 12th which is 3 month's 1 week and part of a day so 265 LVL's divided by 3.25 approx. or 81.5 LVL's a month so this capping will disable the sorc normal improvement with my style of play
A very high chance i'll get bored and just drop out losing a paying customer,
this might need a rethink on ZoS's part lol

davey1107 · September 2016

Arcane well - no decent stam equivalent

Resource management between my stam and mag toons has always seemed retardedly unbalanced. The magic pool feels infinite, where stam is always fighting not to run out.

One reason is arcane well, which procs all the time and provides tons of magic. Reducing stam costs after a break free is nowhere near as powerful as 3500 magic back 20% of the time.

A better stam equivalent to this powerful buff would be appreciated.

Tasear · September 2016

Can Thaumaturge increase healing over time too?

WalksonGraves · October 2016

It's frustrating that despite having wildly different builds all my characters have pretty similar cp distributions because of a handful of essential skills among a sea of worthless choices. CP system looks like it was built as a placeholder and never got revisited.

Lavum · October 2016

I love how ppl spend hours writing in forums, just to be ignored and Wobble does his own thing.

Alucardo · October 2016

Tasear wrote: »

Can Thaumaturge increase healing over time too?

Thaumaturge is for increasing DAMAGE over time. Healing does not hurt, so I doubt it.

Crom_CCCXVI · November 2016

I am thinking at some point you are going to have to re-scale everything.

As champ points go up, eventually I will just fill it all in and not even have to think about it.

Rune_Relic · November 2016

Wrobel wrote: »

Calling all ESO forum posters! We are currently reviewing the Champion System bonuses and would love hear your feedback on them. Our goals for this review are:
Ensure bonuses have a counter weight

Improve infrequently selected bonuses

Effectively communicate all bonuses so it’s easier to understand what they’re doing

Ensure every bonus has a counter weight:
For the Champion System, every offensive bonus should have a defensive counterpart and vice versa. For example: Offensive players can get increased spell penetration from Spell Erosion, while defensive players can get increased spell resistance from Spell Shield.

Improve infrequently selected bonuses:
Some of the Champion Point stars are much less popular than others. It’s not intended that all specs are equally useful, but they should be somewhat useful for some playstyle. Nourishing is a great example of a passive we are looking at in our review. It’s in the same constellation as Quick Recovery and gives a similar bonus of increased healing. However, Nourishing only works every 45 seconds when you can use a potion and Quick Recovery works all the time on all abilities, from both ally and self cast sources.

Effectively communicate all bonuses so it's easier to understand what they are doing:
It’s unclear exactly how some Champion passives work just by reading their tooltips. For example, Spell Erosion and Piercing are looking at the attackers stats instead of the defenders so the number don't end up being what you may expect. We’ll be cleaning up instances of tooltips like this so they are easy to understand.

We would love to hear what your top three changes would be to the Champion bonuses. Keep in mind the criteria above, and as always, please keep things constructive!

1. Give every bonus a builtin counterweight + the alternative counter weight. [point1]
2. This means all bonuses are equally/instantly self neutralised..and thus all equally viable with none slightly better. [point2]
3. This means new builds with 0 bonuses are equally competitive with veteran builds via lack of builtin counterweights
4. This means the default build (0CP) is a true hybrid (BY DEFAULT)...rather than a useless impotent build.
5. This means putting points into both counterbalanced aspects does not make you more destructive and restorative. It will infact cancel each other out. Leaving the player back at the neutral hybrid state again. Thus CP is a differential engine.

6. This means you can take the limiters off of the CP mechanism and progress their character at any pace they want.
7. This means players can invest in:
a. any aspect they want to allow variation.
b. stack as much into any specific aspect as they want (at the expense of reducing alternative options and applied penalty)

8. Thus your build can now fully diversify and specialise without fear of being useless at any point in time.

TOTAL FREEDOM POLICY.
Play how you want. [any build [EDIT: and non-build] is viable in any content]
Play where you want. [vertical progression is inherently neutralised leaving horizontal progression. Thus startgame/endgame content is irrelevant as there is no gating by vertical progression such as power/level]
Play when you want. [There is no enforced treadmill to reach endgame content as all content is equally viable at any time in build development]
Play why you want. [Hardcore or casual. There is no longer a massive gulf between players that limits and alienates]
Play if you want. [You will no longer get left behind if you dont play or take a hiatus for any reason. ]

Basically there is endless character progression and refinement....but you can still go anywhere with anyone at anytime.