Ability Cost Increase...

Reorx_Holybeard · April 2016

Within the patch notes is the following:

Abilities no longer increase their cost by 1% per Veteran Rank, but will now increase at their normal rate for every 10 Champion points, up to a cap of 160.
Most abilities will cost about the same, but cost reduction abilities should return more predictable results.

So they changed how the ability cost changes from CP10-160 over how it used to be from VR1-16 which makes everything cost a noticeably amount more, even with maxed Warlord/Magician CPs.

Without any cost reduction it looks like abilities at CP160 cost around 16% more than they used to. For example, the original cost of Magelight used to be 4872 Magicka but is 5671 on the PTS.

With maxed Warlord/Magician CP it gets a little better but things still cost more...from the looks of it about 5% more. With identical characters on Live/PTS I get the following spell costs:

1659 on Live => 1736 on PTS
2580 => 2699
3035 => 3176

Not a huge amount but definitely something that would be noticeable. Where it hurts the most is hybrid characters who don't have both Warlord/Magician maxed. For example my Stamina DK tank has had all his Magicka abilities increase in cost by 11% and that is *with* 60 points into Magician....ouch! My Magicka Templar has had his Retreating Maneuvers change from 6867 Stamina to 7533 (+10%).

Definitely not a fan of the new scaling but would love some other people's thoughts on it. I'm not sure why they went and changed the scale post 50 from the previous system or at least change it in a way that would result in a net-zero change for people without cost reduction buffs.

deximasb14_ESO · April 2016

Perhaps they should up the value of cost reduction, and block reduction in the champ tree. This would help with this issue and help with the tank cry.

Ajaxduo · April 2016

I noticed this also it's kinda nasty for some classes. Maybe they could bump warlord/magician up to 20%

Dagoth_Rac · April 2016

Yes! My Stamplar struggles with stamina resource management as it is on live. It is absolutely brutal on PTS. This patch is going to be a serious nerf to my DPS because I am going to have to devote more glyphs or set items to cost reduction or stamina recovery. I was really looking forward to this patch that was supposed to have stamina improvements, but so far it looks to have made things noticeably worse, at least for my Stamplar. :-(

Ampnode · April 2016

Higher costing abilities? Maybe people will actually run out of resources now.

ArchAngeI-X · April 2016

Are abilities truly costing more? If so maybe I will actually use that marksman set I have

DKsUnite · April 2016

Another change in the right direction. Back to skillful management of resources

Tyr · April 2016

Running a 2handed pure stamina build my ability costs are significantly lower. I'm wearing full heavy armor and it is amazing.

NBrookus · April 2016

Ampnode wrote: »

Higher costing abilities? Maybe people will actually run out of resources now.

In the no CP campaign, this is going to be brutal.

NewBlacksmurf · April 2016

They need to leave CP out. That's the prob.
VR system was the issue and it's not being removed, it's not complicating the CP.
idk why it's a hard concept to just remove VR entirely. Pause, check and then make new strides

Reorx_Holybeard · April 2016

Tyr wrote: »

Running a 2handed pure stamina build my ability costs are significantly lower. I'm wearing full heavy armor and it is amazing.

Could give us some more details on what your running to achieve this? I've checked all my characters and all have increased ability costs of 5-10% across the board regardless of light/medium/heavy armor or weapon used. Are you sure your Live/PTS characters are identical?

DisgracefulMind · April 2016

DKsUnite wrote: »

Another change in the right direction. Back to skillful management of resources

I would be in the boat for this, yes, I mean, I play in Azura's all the time, I have nothing against skillful management of resources; however, the increase in skill cost is actually ridiculously over the top. Let me just give this example, casting Vampire's Bane, 1 Toppling Charge, and 3 rounds of Sweeps cost almost my entire magicka bar. That's 37k magicka and 5 skills almost cost the entire bar? That seems over the top. That's not skillful management of resources, that's just entirely too much. Something about ability costs feels wrong on the PTS.

blabafat · April 2016

I made a post on this earlier. I think it's definitely something that needs ZoS' attention. I noticed it with many different combinations of cost reduction.

Reorx_Holybeard · April 2016

For the technical minded it appears to just use the same linear scale used for levels 1-50 previously. The spell cost formula is now just:

Cost = BaseCost * EffectiveLevel / 56 + BaseCost * 3 / 28

BaseCost = Level 50 cost with 0 CP
EffectiveLevel = 1-66 
EffectiveLevel = Level + floor(CP/10)   (to a cap of 66)

Previously it used a different linear scale from VR1-16 (1% per VR). So it is a simpler mechanism but it results in 15% higher spell cost at CP160. Cost reduction eliminates some of this but not all and in some cases you won't have any relevant cost reduction abilities in effect.

hrothbern · April 2016

It could be that something went wrong at the ZOS desks and the cost increase is not intended.

But if it is intended,
for fights taking longer than a short burst, it will put players for the tough choice to either:

keep up their present high DPS/HPS/Damage-mitigation builds, but suffer from resources and run dry after some time
Invest more in Resource generation by Armor set/Jewlry enchants/etc choices and have less effective output.

You could also say that by putting strain on Resources, there comes a "natural soft cap" into being.

HoloYoitsu · April 2016

hrothbern wrote: »

It could be that something went wrong at the ZOS desks and the cost increase is not intended.

But if it is intended,
for fights taking longer than a short burst, it will put players for the tough choice to either:
keep up their present high DPS/HPS/Damage-mitigation builds, but suffer from resources and run dry after some time

Invest more in Resource generation by Armor set/Jewlry enchants/etc choices and have less effective output.

You could also say that by putting strain on Resources, there comes a "natural soft cap" into being.

Do we play the same game? Do I really have to quote myself? I guess I have to quote myself.

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

The cost increase is huge, but all its going to do is push people into more burst oriented not sustain. Why? Because you can stack spell/wep dmg higher than ever before, this is not 1.5 and nothing is going to make that resource management meta come back while burst is stronger than ever. When you have the option of building for super high burst and being able to kill stuff, vs building tanky and having to sacrifice all dmg just to sustain through increased resource costs, the choice makes itself.

If you want the build diversity of 1.5, the first thing that needs to be done is caps on dmg stacking.

SuperbatSr · September 2016

I noticed it today for the first time. Logged into my magicka nightblade for the first time since update, and was useless in cyrodil. Before the update my regen was so high I could cloak indefinitely. Now with the increased cost, I can barely stretch it to about a minute. Pretty annoying that the character I've spent months building has been rendered useless. Resource management was what made this one playable.

Saucy_Jack · September 2016

SuperbatSr wrote: »

Before the update my regen was so high I could cloak indefinitely.

And this is why it's a step in the right direction in terms of resource management. Everyone knew having 100% chameleon in single-player Oblivion was gamebreaking; not sure why it wouldn't be gamebreaking in multiplayer ESO.

arkansas_ESO · September 2016

Saucy_Jack wrote: »

SuperbatSr wrote: »

Before the update my regen was so high I could cloak indefinitely.

And this is why it's a step in the right direction in terms of resource management. Everyone knew having 100% chameleon in single-player Oblivion was gamebreaking; not sure why it wouldn't be gamebreaking in multiplayer ESO.

There's hard counters to Magelight in the form of AOE, Magelight, Expert Hunter, Flare, and detect pots. What else do you want?

Cinbri · September 2016

Well, on CP iit was much needed. But on Azura noone will use new sets and still will stick to old sustain sets like Amberplasm otherwise they will run out of resources = instawipe.

ragespell · September 2016

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Yes! My Stamplar struggles with stamina resource management as it is on live. It is absolutely brutal on PTS. This patch is going to be a serious nerf to my DPS because I am going to have to devote more glyphs or set items to cost reduction or stamina recovery. I was really looking forward to this patch that was supposed to have stamina improvements, but so far it looks to have made things noticeably worse, at least for my Stamplar. :-(

stamina improvement?!? this game is ONLY about stamina improvement, and you are whining?

Asgari · September 2016

The cost increase is too sever, even people with lich and 4K regen can't keep resources up at times. I can't even imagine doing vMA on a magplar now.

GreatWhite000 · September 2016

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

The cost increase is too sever, even people with lich and 4K regen can't keep resources up at times. I can't even imagine doing vMA on a magplar now.

I can't imagine doing it on a magplar last patch or the current live patch. That class has 0 resource management.

Duckbutta · September 2016

GreatWhite000 wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

The cost increase is too sever, even people with lich and 4K regen can't keep resources up at times. I can't even imagine doing vMA on a magplar now.

I can't imagine doing it on a magplar last patch or the current live patch. That class has 0 resource management.

I hate to be the guy who says this because it's not entirely useful criticism, but. . . git gud. Plenty of people farm vMA on magplar - keep rune focus up and mix in some HA, you too can sustain resources. If you can't go full burst build, wear some seducer, pick up atro stone, do what you gotta do.

Mustard · September 2016

Good luck trying to 1vX now!

Humatiel · September 2016

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

The cost increase is too sever, even people with lich and 4K regen can't keep resources up at times. I can't even imagine doing vMA on a magplar now.

So I agree this is part of ZoS two year "remove magicka" plan, but if you cant keep resources up with Lich when most of us (pve) are running with ~800 regen its time to take a look at the old build.

Mustard · September 2016

They are increasing dmg and requiring you to have better resource management with this patch and the last one if you can't tell.

ZOS version of soft caps

BigBragg · September 2016

Redacted due to not noticing it was dated information.

Asgari · September 2016

Duckbutta wrote: »

GreatWhite000 wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

The cost increase is too sever, even people with lich and 4K regen can't keep resources up at times. I can't even imagine doing vMA on a magplar now.

I can't imagine doing it on a magplar last patch or the current live patch. That class has 0 resource management.

I hate to be the guy who says this because it's not entirely useful criticism, but. . . git gud. Plenty of people farm vMA on magplar - keep rune focus up and mix in some HA, you too can sustain resources. If you can't go full burst build, wear some seducer, pick up atro stone, do what you gotta do.

So much ignorance in your statement. I'm speaking from trying to obtain the best end game vMA score, not farm stupid loot. Actual players who play magplar will tell you that magicka sustain in vMA is atrocious on live already and this update will just make it so many of the scores now aren't seen because people have to drop damage for sustain.

hrothbern · September 2016

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Duckbutta wrote: »

GreatWhite000 wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

The cost increase is too sever, even people with lich and 4K regen can't keep resources up at times. I can't even imagine doing vMA on a magplar now.

I can't imagine doing it on a magplar last patch or the current live patch. That class has 0 resource management.

I hate to be the guy who says this because it's not entirely useful criticism, but. . . git gud. Plenty of people farm vMA on magplar - keep rune focus up and mix in some HA, you too can sustain resources. If you can't go full burst build, wear some seducer, pick up atro stone, do what you gotta do.

So much ignorance in your statement. I'm speaking from trying to obtain the best end game vMA score, not farm stupid loot. Actual players who play magplar will tell you that magicka sustain in vMA is atrocious on live already and this update will just make it so many of the scores now aren't seen because people have to drop damage for sustain.

Sorry for my ignorance

Do we get another decrease of our resource recoveries with One Tamriel ???

Or is this discussion still based on the (necro) post regarding the resource recovery decreases of the Hist DLC ?

Asgari · September 2016

hrothbern wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Duckbutta wrote: »

GreatWhite000 wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

The cost increase is too sever, even people with lich and 4K regen can't keep resources up at times. I can't even imagine doing vMA on a magplar now.

I can't imagine doing it on a magplar last patch or the current live patch. That class has 0 resource management.

I hate to be the guy who says this because it's not entirely useful criticism, but. . . git gud. Plenty of people farm vMA on magplar - keep rune focus up and mix in some HA, you too can sustain resources. If you can't go full burst build, wear some seducer, pick up atro stone, do what you gotta do.

So much ignorance in your statement. I'm speaking from trying to obtain the best end game vMA score, not farm stupid loot. Actual players who play magplar will tell you that magicka sustain in vMA is atrocious on live already and this update will just make it so many of the scores now aren't seen because people have to drop damage for sustain.

Sorry for my ignorance

Do we get another decrease of our resource recoveries with One Tamriel ???

Or is this discussion still based on the (necro) post regarding the resource recovery decreases of the Hist DLC ?

No there is something up on pts. Myself and many I play with have all expressed feeling it. Resources through regen or cost increases has changed intended or unintended and it's a problem.