Viper and Velidreth

  • Minalan
    Minalan
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    zyk wrote: »
    olsborg wrote: »
    Synozeer wrote: »
    Viper's sting and Velidreth are worse than Malubeth before it was fixed.

    Malubeth still isn't fixed.

    Also this.

    How so?

    It's still getting broken 8-14Kplus ticks every second. People have posted evidence. Malubads defended it.
    Yup, it's comically broken. Throw in some traps and dodge rolls and boom, instant win.

    Two good friends of mine actually uninstalled and unsubscribed in frustration after dealing with this crap all day. We'll see what the patch brings, they're doing the "wait and see" thing.

    I'm out too, but mostly because I hate running alone. :-/ and were having more fun with Overwatch...
  • Xsorus
    Xsorus
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    I'm amazed people think one shotting with stamina builds is somehow new to this game.

    The Methods change but the result is still the same.

  • Abob
    Abob
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    I usually don't have trouble with these type of builds.

    Love you OP, please marry me.

    XOXO,
    Keldurn
  • CapuchinSeven
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    ManDraKE wrote: »
    IMO:

    - Viper is not OP, 5 pieces with bad traits and bad bonuses for PvP (plus is bugged cause is scaling of spell critical/penetration). You have to sacrafice a lot in order to slot viper, it should be worth.

    - Velidreth is OP, 2 pieces, perfect traits and bonuses, hits harder than viper plus is an AoE.

    What is it with you people and stamina defence?
    You don't have to sacrifice anything with Viper, let alone stamina builds in general, that's the damn problem.
  • Anazasi
    Anazasi
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    current meta is viper/ widowmaker/ validreath. The poison proc is unbelievable. It needs to be fixed.
    noun An·a·sa·zi \ˌä-nə-ˈsä-zē\
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  • frozywozy
    frozywozy
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    Nerf Poison damage, nerf Dawnbreaker, nerf Incap and make healing scale off a different stat than weap/spell dmg.

    Oh and nerf RD.
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    • Change emperorship to value faction score points and not alliance points - see this and this
    • Fix long loading screens (mostly caused by players joining group out of rendering range)
    • Add 2 more quickslots to the wheel or add a different wheel for sieges weaponry only
    • Fix Balista Bolts not dealing damage on walls or doors if deployed at a certain place
    • Release bigger battlegrounds with 8 to 16 players per team and only two teams
    • Fix the permanent block animation - see examples : link1 link2 link3 link4 link5
    • Gives players 10 minutes to get back into Cyrodiil after relogging / crashing
    • Add a function to ignore the Claiming system of useless rewards
    • Improve the Mailing System / Rewards of the Worthy stacking
    • Assign specific group sizes to specific campaigns (24-16-8)
    • Fix Rams going crazy (through door or on top of gatehouse)
    • Make forward camps impossible to place near objectives
    • Make snares only available from ground effects abilities
    • Nerf the damage and the range from Heavy Overload
    • Change emperorship to last minimum 24hours
    • Fix body sliding after cc breaking too quickly
    • Fix the speed drop while jumping - see video
    • Fix loading screens when keeps upgrade
    • Bring back dynamic ulti regeneration
    • Fix speed bug (abilities locked)
    • Introduce dynamic population
    • Lower population cap by 20%
    • Add Snare Immunity potions
    • Bring Res Sickness
    • Fix gap closer bug
    • Fix health desync
    • Fix combat bug
    • Fix server lag
  • Ragnaroek93
    Ragnaroek93
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    Abob wrote: »
    I usually don't have trouble with these type of builds.

    Love you OP, please marry me.

    XOXO,
    Keldurn

    You will have trouble once the helmet is on the vendor and everybody is running this :D But I love you too ^^
  • Ryuho
    Ryuho
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    Completly agree. Those sets needs higher cooldown, revamp to dots to negate burst or something similar.. Also, you don't need personal skill those days, just equip broken *** and u are ready to rekt in pvp..

    Once again ZOS created OP set without thinking about pvp balance..
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  • OdinForge
    OdinForge
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    Xsorus wrote: »
    I'm amazed people think one shotting with stamina builds is somehow new to this game.

    The Methods change but the result is still the same.

    It's not about one shotting or even ganking, the set is legitimately bugged. When you combo it with a few other sets, you can literally have no stats except maybe regen for maximum trolls and overwhelm people with such insane damage. The thread is about a broken set, not ganking.
    The Age of Wrobel.
  • ManDraKE
    ManDraKE
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    OdinForge wrote: »
    ManDraKE wrote: »
    IMO:

    - Viper is not OP, 5 pieces with bad traits and bad bonuses for PvP (plus is bugged cause is scaling of spell critical/penetration). You have to sacrafice a lot in order to slot viper, it should be worth.

    - Velidreth is OP, 2 pieces, perfect traits and bonuses, hits harder than viper plus is an AoE.

    What kind of drugs are you on right now, and where can I find them? You don't have to sacrifice anything to run the combo, you can have less than 30K stam and 3K buffed damage and still wreck people.

    You have to sacrifice a lot of stats, dropping you overal damage and healing output. For example, if you want to run a classic stam 2h+bow build, you will have to use 4 body pieces + 1 weapon, or drop agility jewerly to use 3 agility + 1 weapon + 1 body piece, and this will prevent you to use a 5 pieces body set (blackrose meta) + 2 pieces monster set like 99% of the 2h/bow build use. So yes, you have to sacrifice a lot in order to use viper.

    The builds that truly benefit from viper are 1h+s and DW builds, but still you have to sacrifice a lot of base stats in order to use it. That is not the case with Velidreth that perfectly fits in all kind of builds, is pretty much BiS for any DD build.
    There is a big diference beetwen Viper and Velidreth. Viper's by his own, is just a good set, withouth velidreth and widowmaker is not a problem.

    If you want to ask for a nerf, you have to give reasons. "omg is OP nerfed cause i got killed with it" is not enought.
    OdinForge wrote: »
    It's not about one shotting or even ganking, the set is legitimately bugged. When you combo it with a few other sets, you can literally have no stats except maybe regen for maximum trolls and overwhelm people with such insane damage. The thread is about a broken set, not ganking.

    You said it, the problem are the other sets. Use viper withouth widowmaker and withouth velidreth and show me how OP is its.
    Edited by ManDraKE on August 29, 2016 2:07PM
  • Sandman929
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    So I guess along with "Malubads"....VeliBads? Viperbads? VeliViperBads? Maybe StamBads is better.
    Daggerfall Covenant - Xbox One NA
  • OdinForge
    OdinForge
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    ManDraKE wrote: »
    OdinForge wrote: »
    ManDraKE wrote: »
    IMO:

    - Viper is not OP, 5 pieces with bad traits and bad bonuses for PvP (plus is bugged cause is scaling of spell critical/penetration). You have to sacrafice a lot in order to slot viper, it should be worth.

    - Velidreth is OP, 2 pieces, perfect traits and bonuses, hits harder than viper plus is an AoE.

    What kind of drugs are you on right now, and where can I find them? You don't have to sacrifice anything to run the combo, you can have less than 30K stam and 3K buffed damage and still wreck people.

    You have to sacrifice a lot of stats, dropping you overal damage and healing output. For example, if you want to run a classic stam 2h+bow build, you will have to use 4 body pieces + 1 weapon, or drop agility jewerly to use 3 agility + 1 weapon + 1 body piece, and this will prevent you to use a 5 pieces body set (blackrose meta) + 2 pieces monster set like 99% of the 2h/bow build use. So yes, you have to sacrifice a lot in order to use viper.

    The builds that truly benefit from viper are 1h+s and DW builds, but still you have to sacrifice a lot of base stats in order to use it. That is not the case with Velidreth that perfectly fits in all kind of builds, is pretty much BiS for any DD build.
    There is a big diference beetwen Viper and Velidreth. Viper's by his own, is just a good set, withouth velidreth and widowmaker is not a problem.

    If you want to ask for a nerf, you have to give reasons. "omg is OP nerfed cause i got killed with it" is not enought.
    OdinForge wrote: »
    It's not about one shotting or even ganking, the set is legitimately bugged. When you combo it with a few other sets, you can literally have no stats except maybe regen for maximum trolls and overwhelm people with such insane damage. The thread is about a broken set, not ganking.

    You said it, the problem are the other sets. Use viper withouth widowmaker and withouth velidreth and show me how OP is its.

    Bro you don't even need stats or gold weapons, get out of here.
    [SNIP]

    Edited for Profanity

    Edited by ZOS_PeterT on August 31, 2016 6:24PM
    The Age of Wrobel.
  • Qbiken
    Qbiken
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    What´s wrong with people of this game? It´s one thing that a set is broken and not working as indended, but when a player combine some sets in order to make a new powerfull build suddenly all those sets are broken and needs a nerf?? Isn´t it a part of an mmo to go for the best performing build?? This build is powerfull because there´s a good synergy between these sets nothing more.
    Retired werewolf player, currently getting carried by whatever the FOTM is

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  • Sallington
    Sallington
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    Erock25 wrote: »
    I was fighting a few people recently that were using both velidreth and viper. It is effing ridiculous for 16k total proc dmg from one attack. It takes zero skill and is completely overpowered. I've whispered some of the veli/viper users and the usual response is, "i'm sorry, i know it's ridiculous and awful and it's a damn shame it is in the game, but I'm not going to intentionally NOT use the most powerful set up I can."

    That's what's going to keep happening with this stupid "proc" 5-piece set bonuses ZOS keeps implementing. We need more sets with static, passive 5-piece bonuses.

    The whole x% chance to do burst damage has got to go.
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  • Lokey0024
    Lokey0024
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    Erock25 wrote: »
    I was fighting a few people recently that were using both velidreth and viper. It is effing ridiculous for 16k total proc dmg from one attack. It takes zero skill and is completely overpowered. I've whispered some of the veli/viper users and the usual response is, "i'm sorry, i know it's ridiculous and awful and it's a damn shame it is in the game, but I'm not going to intentionally NOT use the most powerful set up I can."

  • Mac10murda
    Mac10murda
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    Got the veli shoulders last night from daily normal now I just need that helm
  • ManDraKE
    ManDraKE
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    OdinForge wrote: »

    Bro you don't even need stats or gold weapons, get out of here.

    [SNIP]

    Edited for Profanity

    You don't need gold weapon to kill potatos. He is killing people that don't even CC break, one guy took like 6 hits while stuned lol, they would have died even with training gear, i could do the exact same video using hunding's rage purple. Go and check zerbad stream, he is oneshotting people with a 260cp char and purple CP150 gear and weapons (no viper, just alchemist+flanking).
    You don't need gold weapons or stats to kill bad players, one CC combo and they die.

    Of everythign i said, that was your answer? IF you are going to jump into a balance discussion, you better have arguments to back your words. I tested and theorycrafted with viper for days, so you better do your homework before replying back
    Edited by ZOS_PeterT on August 31, 2016 6:24PM
  • Sandman929
    Sandman929
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    I'd like to see that theorycrafting session....if I hit this button things die. Theory is sound.
    Daggerfall Covenant - Xbox One NA
  • OdinForge
    OdinForge
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    ManDraKE wrote: »
    OdinForge wrote: »

    Bro you don't even need stats or gold weapons, get out of here.


    You don't need gold weapon to kill potatos. He is killing people that don't even CC break, one guy took like 6 hits while stuned lol, they would have died even with training gear, i could do the exact same video using hunding's rage purple. Go and check zerbad stream, he is oneshotting people with a 260cp char and purple CP150 gear and weapons (no viper, just alchemist+flanking).
    You don't need gold weapons or stats to kill bad players, one CC combo and they die.

    Of everythign i said, that was your answer? IF you are going to jump into a balance discussion, you better have arguments to back your words. I tested and theorycrafted with viper for days, so you better do your homework before replying back

    Why are you trying to defend this set so vehemently, because you theory-crafted (or watched a video) a broken set? He's killing noobs with purple weapons and 1.7K unbuffed DW weapon damage, gold the gear out and get the appropriate traits and you can apply this to pretty much anyone regardless of CP rank or gear. The video is to show the damage output with ridiculously low stats (which should not be possible). Obviously this issue extends past noobs, and everyone else buying and running this set is going at it with gold weapons and better stats. The fact of the matter is you can get away with very little stat, and hit too hard.

    The fact that you're jumping into a balance thread about a set that's clearly over-performing, trying to deflect and defend it is quite telling. Especially you of all people.
    Edited by OdinForge on August 29, 2016 3:39PM
    The Age of Wrobel.
  • Ragnaroek93
    Ragnaroek93
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    ManDraKE wrote: »
    You said it, the problem are the other sets. Use viper withouth widowmaker and withouth velidreth and show me how OP is its.

    After I started using Viper (before Veli got released) I thought holy ***, I'm playing a different class here. It clearly outperforms other medium armor stamina sets in my opinion.
    Qbiken wrote: »
    What´s wrong with people of this game? It´s one thing that a set is broken and not working as indended, but when a player combine some sets in order to make a new powerfull build suddenly all those sets are broken and needs a nerf?? Isn´t it a part of an mmo to go for the best performing build?? This build is powerfull because there´s a good synergy between these sets nothing more.

    Just wait until the vendor sells Velidreth helmet and we can finally play some kind of FPS game ^^
    Erock25 wrote: »
    I was fighting a few people recently that were using both velidreth and viper. It is effing ridiculous for 16k total proc dmg from one attack. It takes zero skill and is completely overpowered. I've whispered some of the veli/viper users and the usual response is, "i'm sorry, i know it's ridiculous and awful and it's a damn shame it is in the game, but I'm not going to intentionally NOT use the most powerful set up I can."

    Well... you can't really blame the players in my opinion, it's not their job to fix it - it's the job of ZOS.
  • Abob
    Abob
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    Qbiken wrote: »
    What´s wrong with people of this game? It´s one thing that a set is broken and not working as indended, but when a player combine some sets in order to make a new powerfull build suddenly all those sets are broken and needs a nerf?? Isn´t it a part of an mmo to go for the best performing build?? This build is powerfull because there´s a good synergy between these sets nothing more.

    Most people expect others to not theorycraft and just use non-set crafted items, if you don't do that and you actually use a strong setup, then KANKER KANKER!!
  • Sandman929
    Sandman929
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    This is no more to do with "theorycrafting" than slapping on Malubeth and not dying. The difference is, Malubeth only saved the user, it didn't kill everything in sight.
    Daggerfall Covenant - Xbox One NA
  • frozywozy
    frozywozy
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    @ManDraKE - why are you defending those sets? everyone here agrees about how broken it is. what is your point?
    Frozn - Stamdk - AR50
    Frosted - Magplar - AR50
    Frodn - Magden - AR50
    Warmed - Magblade - AR50
    Mmfrozy - Magsorc - AR34
    Necrozn - Magcro - AR23
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    PvP Group Builds
    • Fix Volendrung (spawn location - weapon white on the map causing the wielder to keep it forever - usable with emperorship)
    • Remove / Change CPs System, remove current campaigns and introduce one 30days with lock, one with no locks
    • Fix crashes when approaching a keep under attack because of bad / wrong rendering prioritization system
    • Change emperorship to value faction score points and not alliance points - see this and this
    • Fix long loading screens (mostly caused by players joining group out of rendering range)
    • Add 2 more quickslots to the wheel or add a different wheel for sieges weaponry only
    • Fix Balista Bolts not dealing damage on walls or doors if deployed at a certain place
    • Release bigger battlegrounds with 8 to 16 players per team and only two teams
    • Fix the permanent block animation - see examples : link1 link2 link3 link4 link5
    • Gives players 10 minutes to get back into Cyrodiil after relogging / crashing
    • Add a function to ignore the Claiming system of useless rewards
    • Improve the Mailing System / Rewards of the Worthy stacking
    • Assign specific group sizes to specific campaigns (24-16-8)
    • Fix Rams going crazy (through door or on top of gatehouse)
    • Make forward camps impossible to place near objectives
    • Make snares only available from ground effects abilities
    • Nerf the damage and the range from Heavy Overload
    • Change emperorship to last minimum 24hours
    • Fix body sliding after cc breaking too quickly
    • Fix the speed drop while jumping - see video
    • Fix loading screens when keeps upgrade
    • Bring back dynamic ulti regeneration
    • Fix speed bug (abilities locked)
    • Introduce dynamic population
    • Lower population cap by 20%
    • Add Snare Immunity potions
    • Bring Res Sickness
    • Fix gap closer bug
    • Fix health desync
    • Fix combat bug
    • Fix server lag
  • Sandman929
    Sandman929
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    frozywozy wrote: »
    @ManDraKE - why are you defending those sets? everyone here agrees about how broken it is. what is your point?

    He wants to keep using it.
    Daggerfall Covenant - Xbox One NA
  • acw37162
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    PVP threads are so funny.

    You either runs cancer heavy build to combat the over the top damage or you run a cancer build that deals insane burst damage when a monster helm procs.

    A guild mate of mine went and did some testing with Viper and he found out it wasn't "broken" as he insisted.

    I don't see it here so I'll add to the discussion 5 viper 5 red mountain 2 velidreth. Your health is low for Cyrodil and if you don't have the right combination of Velidreth you won't get undaunted passives but if it all procs at once even a cancer Templar will fall.
  • Agrippa_Invisus
    Agrippa_Invisus
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    Valencer wrote: »
    Think Im going to try 2 velidreth + 5 viper + 5 blackrose on stam DK soon. Should be pretty silly too.

    I'm already there. Functions quite well. 2H bar is buff bar, 1H+S bar is the bar I do most of my fighting on. DBoS is the ult I crutch on hardest (who doesn't nowadays?).

    Currently I'm running 38K stamina and 3K weapon damage with Rally up, with HA passives pushing Weapon Damage higher as I get banged up a bit in PVP.

    When I hit someone with a weapon attack and get a combo proc (Viper + Veli), I'm typically going to immediately DB them if it's up. That's the burst point I'm looking for. The tankiness of being in HA along with stam DK and vigor is what allows me to survive until I get the burst.

    As it is, I wouldn't mind Velidreth's being modified to scale off weapon damage in a fair manner. I always assumed it did, actually. Now that I know otherwise, I can state I've always been against builds that have insane regen also having insane burst. It should always been one or the other. The build I've got right now can run dry. Get me to the point I'm relying on the BR proc for stam/mag and I'm probably turtled and trying to withdraw.

    Edited by Agrippa_Invisus on August 29, 2016 4:38PM
    Agrippa Invisus / Indominus / Inprimis / Inviolatus
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  • Ragnaroek93
    Ragnaroek93
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    Abob wrote: »
    Qbiken wrote: »
    What´s wrong with people of this game? It´s one thing that a set is broken and not working as indended, but when a player combine some sets in order to make a new powerfull build suddenly all those sets are broken and needs a nerf?? Isn´t it a part of an mmo to go for the best performing build?? This build is powerfull because there´s a good synergy between these sets nothing more.

    Most people expect others to not theorycraft and just use non-set crafted items, if you don't do that and you actually use a strong setup, then KANKER KANKER!!

    Most used word in ESO: "cancer" :D
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