Samuel_Bantien wrote: »

He forgot to highlight how the Lich Crystals take 3 seconds to blow up for less damage than Velidreth! XD
Also Blood Spawn has stamina recovery WTB magicka recovery Undaunted.

Except that in PvE Nerien'eth = more DPS than Velidreth, because the crystal procs don't have a cooldown.

Xeven wrote: »

Guys stop being stupid. The comparison is to show how strong Vigor is, nobody is saying Vigor is better than BoL.

Actually you said that it heals more than BOL. And I pointed out BOL in the first place because someone was complaining that magicka heals weren't as good.

Disable the 5 piece bonuses of sets in PVP.

A lot of what is wrong with this game lies in RNG. As someone pointed out earlier, there's no fun in PVP when someone wins because their 5-piece bonus was the lucky one, and theirs proc while their opponents doesn't.

5 piece sets - "Taking damage grants 3,000,000 additive instaheal and you breathe fire which deals Dawnbreaker of Smiting and Dizzying Swing 5 times in 3 seconds" isn't fun, doesn't rely on skill AT ALL and is breaking the game, and driving people to just bite the bullet and adopt a cancerous build and playstyle.

I might add that the recent "fix" to regen is also an indirect buff to stamina and heavy armor. My Mag DK can't catch a break at the minute. Since SOTH dropped, I've been getting constantly gimped by Dizzying Swing DK's and Gankers, because - you guessed it, I'm out of Magicka. Because the Light Armor Passives suck, and on top of that I can't spec for Magicka anyway or throwing marshmallows at me kills me.

Magicka builds - combat regen issues by going 7 pieces light armor, but then you'll die when someone farts in your direction. So maybe spec some heavy armor, but then you're out of Magicka after 6 spells cast and your attacks hit like monkeys throwing poop at you. Feels good man.

Slayer9292_ESO wrote: »

I checked my tooltips.



Magicka Templar BOL and Rapid Regeneration
Stam Nightblade Resolving Vigor

Only buffs are food, major brutality/sorcery and major mending from resto staff.

Rapid Regen is available to everyone, and easy to unlock and nearly the same healing per second as Vigor, but lasts way longer.

That vigor tooltip is terribad. On my stamplar without undaunted or alch my vigor sits just over 20k with just major mending + rally. If I wanted to troll I could even add malubeth and vitality pots to the combo and get +5k vigor ticks but I can't bring myself to play something so ridiculous after I mained a sorc throughout 1.6\2.0.

Edit: And to be clear, people are not arguing stam healers are running around keeping entire groups up with vigor spam and outclassing magplars as healers. The point of the vigor comparison is that stam has ridiculously strong self heals, heals that are second only to a class that uses healing as its only significant survival tool. The point of the thread is that the overall balance between stamina and magicka--in solo play more than anything else--is tilted a great degree in stamina's favor. I would argue that literally every stamina spec outperforms its magicka counterpart in soloplay, even the once infamous permashielding and permabolting mag sorc is no longer a match for stam sorc, a class that was only kept from being more of a running joke than magicka dk is right now by the majority of the game population's complete ignorance of the possibility that a sorcerer could be something that wasn't magicka. Cherry picking tooltips is admittedly a poor way to go about highlighting the stam\mag imbalance in either direction, but I would love to see a reasonable argument explaining why magicka is even in the same area code as stamina for smallscale atm.

@Xeven keep the comparisons comin!

@EnOeZ And are you willing to sacrifice your entire backbar to equip a resto staff to get mutagen? Meanwhile, vigor can go on any bar with any weapon that you like.

Slayer9292_ESO wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Uh, I hate to break it to you but, for almost half the cost, Vigor heals more than BoL, a class specific, class defining heal. Vigor scales REALLY well with Stamina/Weapon Damage. Both screenshots with 40k mag/stam and 4k weapon/spell power:




See for yourself if you don't believe me.

I can't check my tooltips, but I'll just go with what you said. Thanks for the info.

I'll start queuing my stamblade as healer for dungeons and trials and just spam VIgor, since it's the best heal in the game.

I'm sure the groups I run with will be happy with that.

I've healed dungeons on a stamblade using vigour. No joke. No complaints from anyone.

We even used to heal through high damage phases in trials by having all the stam builds spam vigour lol

Xeven wrote: »

Saucy_Jack wrote: »

Now, if the DOT simply gets applied to whoever the meteor initially hits regardless of whether they stay in or out of the target area, then yeah, ice comet deserves the additional ultimate cost.

Thats how the Dawnbreaker dot works. It sticks to you, and you can see it as kind of a yellow cloud on your character.

The meteor DOT is ground based.
There is a full 2 second telegraph beginning with a loud boom and a rune at your feet!!
Easily blockable, and if you block, you are not snared either.

Meanwhile you can stack dawnbreaker with any gapcloser. There is no telegraph. It is animation cancelable and instant. It's dot is target based. It does 20% more damage to vampires and werewolves, and, its cheap AF.

Nah you cast ice comet, then streak/fossilize/Fear and bam, free hit as they are knocked up into the air.

EnOeZ wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Removes an harmful effect + 5K burst heal ?
I would take a stamina version of Mutagen (or a magicka with those numbers) over Vigor anyday.

Yes but the heal over time is consumed so it heals for only 5 k. Yes yes we can spam it but hey, if there are 2 friends near you the mutagen healing them instead you, instead vigor healing the caster and nearby allies.

Thelon wrote: »

Slayer9292_ESO wrote: »

I pointed out BOL in the first place because someone was complaining that magicka heals weren't as good.

is BOL available to all magicka classes in the same way vigor is available to all stamina classes?

Nope, nor are there any sets desisgned to help out stam builds with hea

Valera Progib wrote: »

EnOeZ wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Removes an harmful effect + 5K burst heal ?
I would take a stamina version of Mutagen (or a magicka with those numbers) over Vigor anyday.

Would you also take a resto staff for that? Yes? Really? This is the main argument. Put healing ward/mutagen in mages guild abilities instead of equilibrium and see the situation massively change.

Cool can stam builds then get Spell Symmetry as an effect of the now worthless expert hunter or one of its morphs. I'd trade 4K health for 5K Stam and empower plus 30% cost reduction on my next ability anytime.

Valera Progib wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Valera Progib wrote: »

EnOeZ wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Removes an harmful effect + 5K burst heal ?
I would take a stamina version of Mutagen (or a magicka with those numbers) over Vigor anyday.

Would you also take a resto staff for that? Yes? Really? This is the main argument. Put healing ward/mutagen in mages guild abilities instead of equilibrium and see the situation massively change.

I'd give anything for Healing Ward to be in the 1H+shield line as well.

You already have vigor in assault. Healing ward scales of magicka, so 1h +shield should have access to it as an mages guild ability - that is my argument. What you said is very weak or you did not think.

No I understand your point about Mutagen being in Mages guild, but they can't BOTH go in Mages guild. I get your point though if they are in Mages guild they can be used my multiple builds, I was just thinking out loud mostly (on first read I only saw you mentioning Mutagen actually, I missed you mention ward which is why I brought it up) and in my head it always felt like it would have been better as a magicka ability in the 1H+S tree.

I agree and Ive been trying to work on a Nightblade hybrid that uses magicka abilities to heal but stamina to hit and as Ive been trying out different skills I've noticed Stamina hits harder by a mile and without light armor its hard to maintain Magicka, which is why I quit playing my Sorcerer as it was a constant juggling game and squeezing out damage from anything I can find and sacrificing sustain for damage.

Ive thought of a few ways that would help with balancing, bear in mind this is just my opinion and ideas Ive thought of.

- block and dodge roll have its own resource pool
- damage shields have (slightly) longer duration to make up for less protection with LA
- more variety of sets for both magicka and stamina
- give each class a skill line dedicated to healing, defence and buffs with stamina and magicka morphs
- give magicka more spam abilities (especially sorcerer) so they dont have to rely on a destro staff to get sustained damage
- weapon skills have magicka morph or a spell sword skill line
- think of something else light armor can offer that makes up for lack of protection for sustain and cost reduction

Im too tired to write up more but this is just my opinion and idea, doubt ZOS will do anything about the balancing other then bandaid it.

Damage shields need to be put back up to like, 12 seconds. To go from 20 to 6 and act like it's justified is ridiculous.