The Divide of PVE and PVP is Killing ESO

NoMoreChillies · August 2016

been noticing alot more PVP'ers running dungeons/trials/endgame content lately.
I like it

TequilaFire · August 2016

Anhedonie wrote: »

PvP folks at it's finest. Toxic and crying, just as everywhere else.

And what are you doing?
Nuff said.

Actually this thread needs shut down as it serves no constructive purpose but to promote pve vs pvp hate.

Doctordarkspawn · August 2016

TequilaFire wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

PvP folks at it's finest. Toxic and crying, just as everywhere else.

And what are you doing?
Nuff said.

Actually this thread needs shut down as it serves no constructive purpose but to promote pve vs pvp hate.

And dont forget the personal attacks, though, considering who's side of the fence started that one it's not hard to see where the problem lies.

Still. This thread would have purpose of Wobrel got off his butt and lisened to common sense, but he ain' doing that. Shut it down, at this point it's just noise.

kylewwefan · August 2016

Lots of good points in the thread. I don't think the divide is killing the game, but it has changed it to a degree. I think the hardcore/ casual may very well be the bigger monster but they do a decent job of segregating themselves.....when they find out I'm a max level scrub. Lol

ZOS_RyanM · August 2016

We have gone ahead an removed several comments form this thread that were off topic and non constructive. We understand that people are passionate about this subject and there is a desire to debate this topic. However we ask that you keep your posts civil and constructive. Please remember to keep on topic and to avoid personal attacks.

Asmael · August 2016

NoMoreChillies wrote: »

been noticing alot more PVP'ers running dungeons/trials/endgame content lately.
I like it

*raises hand*

But seriously tho, i'm just there for that vMoL skin and some sets.

--

I've definitely been more on the PvE side these last 2 months, and... honestly?

They both complain. People will ALWAYS find a reason to complain, they'll always have to blame someone because their toy got nerfed. To say that only one side complains, or just to blame the other side is idiotic. The ones making the final decision are the devs, sure, based on feedback, but...

PvPers complain about Radiant Oppression (aka Jesus beam), dodge roll / shuffle and stamina in general. They complain about ganking and how damage in general is too high, same for healing for some of them. They complain abut the lack of incentive and objectives.

PvErs complain about maelstrom weapons only being available in vet, about unkillable guards, about stamina DPS being too high compared to magicka ("omg, stam has 50k, mag has 35k!!!!1"). They complain about group finder and pug groups, about "those ******* noobs" who screwed up their run. They complain about tanks becoming useless for anything besides trials and very few dungeons.

Does that make them right? Not always, that's for sure, but they both have valid points at times. There have been multiple cases of PvE nerfs affecting PvP and vice versa, not all of them are bad. It's quite maddening to see someone blaming the other side when the devs explain the reasoning behind the change, and both PvE and PvP reasons are given, typical example: shields, main defense of magicka sorcs, have been nerfed not only due to the potency of shield stacking in PvP, but also because of vMA scores, showing magicka sorcs as the clear winner in general (not as true these days).

Neither PvE nor PvP is perfect, nor it'll ever be, abilities, passives, whichever build is strongest will always change, you can mitigate the issue by asking to separate abilities. The community should be focusing on asking for this change, instead of blaming "the other side".

Browiseth · August 2016

Ampnode wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

PVP is monotonous? Please explain how killing the same bosses over and over again is not boring and monotonous?

Dude, you get to IMMERSE yourself in that dungeon. Like, as if you're the one fighting that boss. Classic RP 101, bro.
/s

Not everyone cares about precious immersionz. Side note: as a pure PvE player I can make an argument as to how unimmersive ESO feels all the time

Pallio · August 2016

Did the boss mob's complaining in vMSA get the Sorc shields nerfed?

Nope

PURPLE245 · August 2016

*facepalms*

Mortehl · August 2016

Pallio wrote: »

Did the boss mob's complaining in vMSA get the Sorc shields nerfed?

Nope

This post wins the internet for the day.

Shadesofkin · August 2016

Pallio wrote: »

Did the boss mob's complaining in vMSA get the Sorc shields nerfed?

Nope

You win the internets for the day. This was fantastic.

MaxwellC · August 2016

There's no Divide in PvE vs PvP. Content drives players to do certain things whether it be grinding that AP or grinding that dungeon/trial. Only issue I say is that too many skills have been nerf'd as a result of people QQing some justified while others not (FoB as an example).

Cinbri · August 2016

You not happy how skills' changes for pvp affecting pve?!
Well, PvPers not happy about it too, so....

EZgoin76 · August 2016

Lot of hate and purely stupid answers in this thread. Instead of whining, coming from both sides. Why not work on a compromise. There's been a couple of good suggestions but nobody decided to elaborate on them so it seems we're back to demeaning each other.

I suggest ZOS implementing a place or an option where we can set up character templates. Being able to completely set your CP, skills, attributes and gear for three to five templates and being able to switch between them on the fly. Getting ready to go pvp, that's template 1. Going to tank a group dungeon, switch to template 2. No need to tank some parts of the dungeon? Immediately switch to a DD on the fly.

I know this kinda takes away from one of the games gold sinks but.... do we really care?

If they did this and separated the sklls as a pvp group and a pve group that you could then choose from. It would be easy to balance them separately.

I could be completely wrong but that's my 2 cents.

Ch4mpTW · August 2016

EZgoin76 wrote: »

Lot of hate and purely stupid answers in this thread. Instead of whining, coming from both sides. Why not work on a compromise. There's been a couple of good suggestions but nobody decided to elaborate on them so it seems we're back to demeaning each other.

I suggest ZOS implementing a place or an option where we can set up character templates. Being able to completely set your CP, skills, attributes and gear for three to five templates and being able to switch between them on the fly. Getting ready to go pvp, that's template 1. Going to tank a group dungeon, switch to template 2. No need to tank some parts of the dungeon? Immediately switch to a DD on the fly.

I know this kinda takes away from one of the games gold sinks but.... do we really care?

If they did this and separated the sklls as a pvp group and a pve group that you could then choose from. It would be easy to balance them separately.

I could be completely wrong but that's my 2 cents.

While you've raised a lot of solid and strong points, I feel that the 2 should be finally divided from 1 another. And not brought together (in regard of PVE and PVP). As others have said, games like GW2 and WoW have done this and had tremendous success doing so. As have many other titles. But, for some odd reason — there seems to be beliefs that the 2 can coincide with one another. And that isn't possible.

In my opinion, there has been more than enough damage by this divide. And it's time for ZOS to admit the divide's presence, and go about finally splitting the 2 into different directions. This will keep both crowds of PVE and PVP happy, while avoiding skill changes from harshly effecting 1 crowd while "balancing" out things for the other crowd.

WeerW3ir · August 2016

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

I'm still seeing nerf Radiant Destruction threads, even though it's an entirely new update gone live. Have all of you people who've been asking for its nerfs ever considered that there's more than just PVP'ers who play this game, and that PVE exists too? Please stop being so inconsiderate and view things from multiple perspectives, and not just your own.

I'm tired of seeing "solid" skills get nerfed, all because the PVP crowd threw a temper tantrum about skills and mechanics. Y'all have gotten: Shields/Wards nerfed, Wrecking Blow nerfed, Cloak nerfed, DK Flappers nerfed, Bolt Escape nerfed, and so many other things nerfed. You even got blocking nerfed, regardless of the developers claiming it was due to PVE that brought about those changes. Not 1 person in PVE complained about tanks in dungeons and trials blocking too much. Not 1. But, was there complaints about "Block-Knights" all over threads from a PVP perspective? You bet! It's horrible.

I mean, it's even to the point that stamina is blowing magicka way out of the water from a DPS perspective. I wasn't hearing those complaints from a PVE perspective about a "StamSorc", or about how stamina was lacking compared to magicka. N'ah. Not at all. Did I hear complaints about stamina under-performing a bit with VMA'a release? Yes. And still people got it down, and it eventually became a cake-walk. It became clear that the complaints about VMA were a "L2P issue" from a stamina point-of-view. And now look. Vicious Serpent, Red Mountain, the new dungeon monster sets, etc. Bruh, it's 2016 and we STILL have no 1pcs. bonus that grants neither strictly spell damage nor magicka regen. But, look how many bones ZOS has thrown the stamina users. Lmao. Smh.

Oh, and don't think I forgot about the undaunted vendor. While it was said that anyone can use it, and pay for things with either AP or gold... Where is it located again? Cyrodiil right? And what was the point of its creation? To cater to the PVP crowd who complained about having to do PVE content to receive monster sets, right? Last I checked we don't have that option for PVE'ers. We can't spend gold (unless to a guild trader) to get PVP sets that may benefit in PVE. We have to buy them off another player in a guild trader, or PVP for them. Oh, and speaking of PVP tying into PVE... What was that about Imperial City DLC? Yeah, forcing players to PVP for PVE-related stuff? Yeah, not cool.

And the list goes on and on. We as the player base can pretend that there is no legitimate issue at hand with this divide, or even that this divide doesn't exist. But, it's becoming more and more clear. What ZOS should do is have skills behave 1 way in PVP, and completrly differently in PVE. That way the 2 crowds can be kept happy. What ZOS should do, is view things from a full perspective. And not do things to cater to 1 crowd without wondering how it'll effect the other. And lastly, what we SHOULD do is "L2P" and stop asking for a nerf of a skill or class all because we got killed in a PVP environment. And ask for how we can go about avoiding the same mistake twice, or how to better ourselves as players. Rant over.

TL;DR - Stop being inconsiderate both ZOS and player base, and view things from both sides of the coin.

You're so right x_x

Blackbird71 · August 2016

ScooberSteve wrote: »

And in case its not obvious the most popular skills always get nerfed otherwhise the game would get boring if every single stamina user was rocking wreckingblow.

You're close, but not quite there. Here, let me fix that for you:

ScooberSteve wrote: »

And in case its not obvious the most popular skills always get nerfed otherwhise PvP would get boring if every single stamina user was rocking wreckingblow.

This really identifies the crux of the problem. In PvP, since you are up against other players, who (in theory) have access to the same skills and equipment as you do. To defeat them, you have to be better than them. Unless classes and skills are perfectly balanced and all equally "the best", there will always be one class/skill/combination/etc. that emerges on top, and becomes the popular "flavor of the month". So adjustments are made in order to achieve balance and equality in order to keep multiple options viable and to preserve variety. However, the fact is that perfect PvP balance is a myth; it is something that a game will strive for, but never reach. This constant pursuit of a state that will never be stable means that there will always be changes made in order to avoid stagnation. In and of itself, in an isolated environment, there is nothing wrong with this; it keeps PvP fresh and interesting for those who engage in it, and helps to ensure that all classes will be viable at some point in time, if not all at once.

The problem arises when these changes also affect PvE. The typical PvE player is very different from the typical PvP player (yes, there are many who do both, but for now consider those who are mostly focused on one or the other). Most PvE players do not appreciate constant change, but rather prefer a stable environment in terms of skills/equipment/etc., where these can be used reliably in the same way. For the PvE player, this does not create stagnation, as in PvE there is not the same critical need to be "the best". The PvE player only has to be better than the monsters and other NPC enemies that the game environment (hence the "E") sends at him. These enemies do not have the same range of skill and equipment options as players, as they are predefined and generally constant. This means that many different classes/skills/builds/etc. are "good enough" to accomplish PvE goals; some may be faster or otherwise better, but as long as they work reasonably well, they are viable options for the PvE player. The PvE player often gets their variety from changing between these builds, or even changing to characters of other classes for different experiences. Of course, PvP players may change these things as well, but PvE players have more options available, as there is not the same need or pressure to have a perfectly optimum build. What PvE players often dislike the most however is when a skill they have come to rely on, and use regularly for a build or character they enjoy, is changed in such a way as to make it less enjoyable.

So this is the fundamental conflict between PvP and PvE as I see it. PvP needs variety and constant change in the pursuit of (but never reaching) balance, while PvE prefers constancy and reliability. As some have pointed out, the only real solution is to separate skills and the like so that when a change is made for PvP balance, it is less disruptive of the PvE experience. Otherwise, we will continue to have PvP players claiming that "nerfs" and other changes to skills are needed, and we will continue to have PvE players complaining that PvP is "ruining" the game for them, and in a way they will both be accurate and true. Unless anyone has any other suggestions as how to resolve such a primary difference of goals, a separation is clearly the best option to preserve the best experience for both areas of the game and both groups of players.

Lylith · August 2016

disintegr8 wrote: »

Zerok wrote: »

There is not only one but TWO divides in ESO:
- PvE vs PvP
- Hardcore players vs casual players

I think the second one is actually the worst.

Strongly agree with this comment and the result is that casual players mostly stay in PVE while the hardcore players tend to be in PVP. So problem number two ends up converting into problem number one.

if there were no casual players, there would be no hardcore players.

nimander99 · August 2016

The solution is simple, remove stats from pvp. Make it similar to a first person shooter. Straight up level playing field. That is the answer to all MMO's with PVP as a separate play space from pve.

Ch4mpTW · August 2016

Lylith wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

Zerok wrote: »

There is not only one but TWO divides in ESO:
- PvE vs PvP
- Hardcore players vs casual players

I think the second one is actually the worst.

Strongly agree with this comment and the result is that casual players mostly stay in PVE while the hardcore players tend to be in PVP. So problem number two ends up converting into problem number one.

if there were no casual players, there would be no hardcore players.

Amen! Say it again. People tend to forget that sooooo strongly. People sit there and diss casuals 24/7, and belittle them. And don't even realize that everyone is equal. Casual and hardcore. Everyone has to start from somewhere.

Lara1701 · August 2016

I'm a pretty hardcore PvPer. If there's one thing I hate in any MMO I play, it's other PvPers whining and trying to get things nerfed and creating meta games. Rock, paper, scissors is never, ever going to be balanced to these sort of complaints. Catering to them just creates an endless cycle if meta gaming, whining, and frustration.

My solution is to basically ignore all the PvP complaints and keep things standard. The masses will never be satisfied, so you may as well save yourselves the work of tweaking game mechanics. Fix glitches, stop exploits, add new stuff... that's all a way better use of ZOS time and resources for us. If something is broken, amend it, but stop trying to eternally balance the scales with grains of sands just because people don't know how to counter one class or ability.

Everything is usually viable right out of the gate in MMOs. It just depends on personal play styles and comfort. I'm not obsessed with numbers like a lot of PvPers or raiders. Generally I find teamwork is the most "OP" element in PvP. That's usually what causes whining. Take WoW. Each side complains the other "always wins" at PvP. Bad teams and individuals always complain about pre-mades. People who are too low a level always complain about level caps.

I guess I just don't like the whining. I find what works for me, rely on teamwork and communication, and then proceed to have fun and relax... because that's why I'm playing.

Please note, this is only my opinion, not meant to rile anyone up. People will totally disagree with me, that's cool. Not like I expect Zenimax to apply what I've said here. Peace.

BadLuckCharm · August 2016

Some MMO companies have tried to balance PvE and PvP while sharing the very same skill sets, and never managed.
Ten. Years.

"If at first you don't succeed, try try again. Then quit. No sense being a damned fool about it." - attributed, rightly or wrongly, to W.C. Fields

Valencer · August 2016

Magicka DKs were gods in PvP in the earlier versions of the game, if played right. At the same time, there's videos out there of magicka DKs solo-ing trial bosses (content designed for 12 people) at around the same version of the game.

People can pretend like PvP imbalances are always totally unrelated to PvE imbalances but it really is just nonsense. Overcomplicating the game with 2 separate versions of each skill doesnt necessarily fix anything either.

ARIES SERPICO · August 2016

Ohhgrizyyy wrote: »

Plus your argument is irrelevant, Of course no one is gonna complain about it in pve, Block tanks dont ever run out of stamina so they never take any damage so makes it easier, Radiant is op in pve and kills stuff quick, No one is ever gonna complain about how good an ability is in pve cause it causes crap to die faster and its not against an actual living person that can compete, Its against computer generated pixels that is made to be killed....No one is ever gonna complain about pve so therefor again....Your argument is irrelevant.

You literally made no point or provide anything constructive which makes your post ironically irrelevant.

Jaronking · August 2016

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Hashtag_ wrote: »

The PvE plebs will kill this game long term. Most PvE DLC is completed in less than a week so the model for sustain isn't there. For this game to last it's going to come down to PvP which IMO is a joke.

While everyone is entitled to their opinion, I have to say that I strongly disagree with you. Your logic seems so... Flawed. At least in this particular topic.

You see, this is an Elder Scrols game. When I as well s numerous others think of an Elder Scrolls title, what comes to mind is that of: Deep-seeded lore, immersion, impressive combat, and beautiful and vast environments to get lost into. To me, that is what defines an Elder Scrolls game. As well as most importantly, a beautifully told series of stories. Now! Anything else besides those previously listed is extra, in my opinion. Not something of grave importance and mandatory to the franchise. So for PVP...? It's not really something that I care too much for, to be honest. Do I wan it removed? No, not really. If it gets removed, it's fine. I'd play the heck out of this game still. And possibly enjoy the game further. But, PVP is nowher in my views of what a "proper" Elder Scrolls game is. Not even close.

If that's the case why the hell do you play this game because it has none of that.If you believe it does than your really drinking the kool aid man.

I play the game, because I do find the qualities of a "proper" Elder Scrolls in ESO. Are these qualities as prevalent as say Morrowind or Skyrim? No. But, at the very core? They do exist. They honestly do. I find myself often in my downtime actually reading over things in my lore library, and just wandering around observing things. I mean, this game even with its flaws is still quite amazing when you look at it from a PVE perspective and not a competitive point-of-view. When you cast the: Min-maxing, achievements, etc. all aside? This game is truly gorgeous and a definite 10/10.

I have to disagree with you I tired to get immersed in this game I couldn't find it possible.Not because its a MMO I been immersed in many MMO Swtor still have memories of that first MMO I really every RPed on.This game doesn't have the hook for me at its core its something that tired and horribly failed at a elder scrolls game.If it wasn't for the title am sure many players would have never given this game a chance or stayed with it this long.

ARIES SERPICO · August 2016

Jaronking wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Hashtag_ wrote: »

The PvE plebs will kill this game long term. Most PvE DLC is completed in less than a week so the model for sustain isn't there. For this game to last it's going to come down to PvP which IMO is a joke.

While everyone is entitled to their opinion, I have to say that I strongly disagree with you. Your logic seems so... Flawed. At least in this particular topic.

You see, this is an Elder Scrols game. When I as well s numerous others think of an Elder Scrolls title, what comes to mind is that of: Deep-seeded lore, immersion, impressive combat, and beautiful and vast environments to get lost into. To me, that is what defines an Elder Scrolls game. As well as most importantly, a beautifully told series of stories. Now! Anything else besides those previously listed is extra, in my opinion. Not something of grave importance and mandatory to the franchise. So for PVP...? It's not really something that I care too much for, to be honest. Do I wan it removed? No, not really. If it gets removed, it's fine. I'd play the heck out of this game still. And possibly enjoy the game further. But, PVP is nowher in my views of what a "proper" Elder Scrolls game is. Not even close.

If that's the case why the hell do you play this game because it has none of that.If you believe it does than your really drinking the kool aid man.

I play the game, because I do find the qualities of a "proper" Elder Scrolls in ESO. Are these qualities as prevalent as say Morrowind or Skyrim? No. But, at the very core? They do exist. They honestly do. I find myself often in my downtime actually reading over things in my lore library, and just wandering around observing things. I mean, this game even with its flaws is still quite amazing when you look at it from a PVE perspective and not a competitive point-of-view. When you cast the: Min-maxing, achievements, etc. all aside? This game is truly gorgeous and a definite 10/10.

I have to disagree with you I tired to get immersed in this game I couldn't find it possible.Not because its a MMO I been immersed in many MMO Swtor still have memories of that first MMO I really every RPed on.This game doesn't have the hook for me at its core its something that tired and horribly failed at a elder scrolls game.If it wasn't for the title am sure many players would have never given this game a chance or stayed with it this long.

I have to disagree. I played many MMOs also but enjoy playing ESO on Console now after I transferred from PC to play with friends who solely play on consoles and brining them into the MMO fold. It is an enjoyable game but like any other game it's not for everyone.

Jaronking · August 2016

ARIES SERPICO wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Hashtag_ wrote: »

The PvE plebs will kill this game long term. Most PvE DLC is completed in less than a week so the model for sustain isn't there. For this game to last it's going to come down to PvP which IMO is a joke.

While everyone is entitled to their opinion, I have to say that I strongly disagree with you. Your logic seems so... Flawed. At least in this particular topic.

You see, this is an Elder Scrols game. When I as well s numerous others think of an Elder Scrolls title, what comes to mind is that of: Deep-seeded lore, immersion, impressive combat, and beautiful and vast environments to get lost into. To me, that is what defines an Elder Scrolls game. As well as most importantly, a beautifully told series of stories. Now! Anything else besides those previously listed is extra, in my opinion. Not something of grave importance and mandatory to the franchise. So for PVP...? It's not really something that I care too much for, to be honest. Do I wan it removed? No, not really. If it gets removed, it's fine. I'd play the heck out of this game still. And possibly enjoy the game further. But, PVP is nowher in my views of what a "proper" Elder Scrolls game is. Not even close.

If that's the case why the hell do you play this game because it has none of that.If you believe it does than your really drinking the kool aid man.

I play the game, because I do find the qualities of a "proper" Elder Scrolls in ESO. Are these qualities as prevalent as say Morrowind or Skyrim? No. But, at the very core? They do exist. They honestly do. I find myself often in my downtime actually reading over things in my lore library, and just wandering around observing things. I mean, this game even with its flaws is still quite amazing when you look at it from a PVE perspective and not a competitive point-of-view. When you cast the: Min-maxing, achievements, etc. all aside? This game is truly gorgeous and a definite 10/10.

I have to disagree with you I tired to get immersed in this game I couldn't find it possible.Not because its a MMO I been immersed in many MMO Swtor still have memories of that first MMO I really every RPed on.This game doesn't have the hook for me at its core its something that tired and horribly failed at a elder scrolls game.If it wasn't for the title am sure many players would have never given this game a chance or stayed with it this long.

I have to disagree. I played many MMOs also but enjoy playing ESO on Console now after I transferred from PC to play with friends who solely play on consoles and brining them into the MMO fold. It is an enjoyable game but like any other game it's not for everyone.

I like the game PVP its why I still play.The RP and story telling side of the game just doesn't hold up.Plus I play on Xbox not many MMO for us yet,if the rumors are true their some competition coming to ESO next year that could take a good chunk of players away.

phairdon · August 2016

Just as a matter of interest. Wasn't radiant destruction already nerfed last year, due to it being OP?

Ethromelb14_ESO · August 2016

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

I hate PvP. It's pointless and monotonous. And every PvE based MMO it's included in, it has slowly destroyed, unless isolated to it's proverbial box off in the corner somewhere.

PvP is always broken, no matter what MMO it's in. Pit two exceptionally well built players against each other and watch a very long and boring fight where no one dies, because they can max heal their wounds, or create characters with health bars that don't move, block all day, run away all day, stealth all day. Or wear cheesy armor that just detonates everyone in the proximity without any real display of skill, because the armor does all the work for them.

Unless the PvP feature is going to actually function on an iota of swordsmanship or strategic play, it has no proper place in an MMO. When it starts working like Ni-oh, then I'll support it. Because then the skill will more so be coming from the player and not the set armor. This is the poor design that has everyone flocking to the same damn armor set. For all intents and purpose, a wear-to-win game.

In this game there is a strong dependency on heals because it is close to impossible (based on the majority) to enter combat and not be hit once, just because your fighting prowess is just that good. And those same mechanics translated to player versus player creates a horrible experience.

Just like the exclusive armor, PvP needs it's own set of powers to choose from, that can not be used in PvE.

PVP is monotonous? Please explain how killing the same bosses over and over again is not boring and monotonous?

By comparison? The Cyrodil landscape is by far the most empty and boring of all the designs. I'd rather go in to various dungeons of different decorum and purpose, taking my chances against the threat of variety of attacks the bosses pose. That's a lot more entertaining than riding to distant location, dying at location, re-spawning at a different location, and riding back to distant location, to do it all over again. But hey, that must be exciting, all so players have the opportunity of being the Emperor of a near desolate land. Right?

In PvE, if you get tired of doing one dungeon, or mission, or seeking out an achievement, there is always a different one with a different level of difficulty that can take the place of anything you deem boring. If I get bored running a 4- man mission, I two man it with a reliable friend. I guarantee you this ... the environment is always different, immersive and compelling. PvP doesn't hold a candle to PvE in terms of entertainment.

PvP = (In no particular order) Exploration of 1 region, hiding, waiting, ganking, zerging, fighting, win/dying, tea-b*gging, re-spawning, traveling, repeating (in the same day). There is rarely any strategy implemented in this mode. It's usually every man for himself, or cowards that have to jump one player that proves to much for them, and feeling tough after they've won a 4 v 1. Support is rarely there, simply based on how many players are left for dead after getting k.O'ed, only to have to teleport to the nearest keep that hasn't been seized. Exactly what pertinent knowledge is necessary to shared in PvP?

PvE = (In no particular order) Challenging trials, exploration in over seven regions, strategy, patience, support, knowledge, winning/wiping, rezzing teammates, re-spawning self, traveling, sharing soul gems, helping lower level players, moving on to the next dungeon with a different environment and clearing that. There are more positive things that go on in PvE, that are either missing or rare to see in PvP.

Ch4mpTW · August 2016

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

I hate PvP. It's pointless and monotonous. And every PvE based MMO it's included in, it has slowly destroyed, unless isolated to it's proverbial box off in the corner somewhere.

PvP is always broken, no matter what MMO it's in. Pit two exceptionally well built players against each other and watch a very long and boring fight where no one dies, because they can max heal their wounds, or create characters with health bars that don't move, block all day, run away all day, stealth all day. Or wear cheesy armor that just detonates everyone in the proximity without any real display of skill, because the armor does all the work for them.

Unless the PvP feature is going to actually function on an iota of swordsmanship or strategic play, it has no proper place in an MMO. When it starts working like Ni-oh, then I'll support it. Because then the skill will more so be coming from the player and not the set armor. This is the poor design that has everyone flocking to the same damn armor set. For all intents and purpose, a wear-to-win game.

In this game there is a strong dependency on heals because it is close to impossible (based on the majority) to enter combat and not be hit once, just because your fighting prowess is just that good. And those same mechanics translated to player versus player creates a horrible experience.

Just like the exclusive armor, PvP needs it's own set of powers to choose from, that can not be used in PvE.

PVP is monotonous? Please explain how killing the same bosses over and over again is not boring and monotonous?

By comparison? The Cyrodil landscape is by far the most empty and boring of all the designs. I'd rather go in to various dungeons of different decorum and purpose, taking my chances against the threat of variety of attacks the bosses pose. That's a lot more entertaining than riding to distant location, dying at location, re-spawning at a different location, and riding back to distant location, to do it all over again. But hey, that must be exciting, all so players have the opportunity of being the Emperor of a near desolate land. Right?

In PvE, if you get tired of doing one dungeon, or mission, or seeking out an achievement, there is always a different one with a different level of difficulty that can take the place of anything you deem boring. If I get bored running a 4- man mission, I two man it with a reliable friend. I guarantee you this ... the environment is always different, immersive and compelling. PvP doesn't hold a candle to PvE in terms of entertainment.

PvP = (In no particular order) Exploration of 1 region, hiding, waiting, ganking, zerging, fighting, win/dying, tea-b*gging, re-spawning, traveling, repeating (in the same day). There is rarely any strategy implemented in this mode. It's usually every man for himself, or cowards that have to jump one player that proves to much for them, and feeling tough after they've won a 4 v 1. Support is rarely there, simply based on how many players are left for dead after getting k.O'ed, only to have to teleport to the nearest keep that hasn't been seized. Exactly what pertinent knowledge is necessary to shared in PvP?

PvE = (In no particular order) Challenging trials, exploration in over seven regions, strategy, patience, support, knowledge, winning/wiping, rezzing teammates, re-spawning self, traveling, sharing soul gems, helping lower level players, moving on to the next dungeon with a different environment and clearing that. There are more positive things that go on in PvE, that are either missing or rare to see in PvP.

Very true, and a very impressive explaination that is HIGHLY detailed. Take this strong +1 to your tally of agreements.