Mortehl wrote: »

mdylan2013 wrote: »

Mortehl wrote: »

mdylan2013 wrote: »

Mortehl wrote: »

mdylan2013 wrote: »

Valera Progib wrote: »

L2P issue.

If you can't complete VMA - you are quite bad. People can decide their own rules on recruitment minimum requirements. As long as it is not sexist or/and racist, nobody cares.

Stormproof is actually proof that you have completed the most difficult solo content in the game. The end.

Exactly, the most difficult SOLO content in the game. Solo play is completely different to trials. You can be an amazing solo player but absolutely suck in a large group trial, it also works the other way.

Do you believe that a tank or a healer should have Stormproof?

On another character? Absolutely. Do you know why? Because once again, getting through the content is a potential indicator that the player in question has mastered advanced situational awareness, demonstrated the ability to adapt to changing environments, and still succeeded.

Folks, its not about being elitist. It really isn't. You CAN be a potentially great player and never beat maelstrom but that doesn't change a couple of factors: Maelstrom weapons increase your individual damage output exponentially. Maelstrom completes indicate that you eventually can learn complex mechanics.

You don't NEED maelstrom weapons to begin with. You NEED the ability to fight the RNG regularly in order to acquire them. You NEED the ability to not die in popcorn, to pull bolts from your neighbor quickly, to switch dps to atronachs ASAP, to cleanse yourself if you're cursed while never slacking DPS, to not get machine gunned by a boss because you didn't move when he takes a screwed up path from one platform to another. The list goes on.

Maelstrom completion is by an large a STRONG indicator that you're capable as a player of adapting and are going to at some point get your dps weapons.

I agree, you need the ability to not stand in popcorn, to pull bolts from others, to cleanse etc... All of that will become fairly obvious when you take the person into a trial.

In my opinion if you are looking for someone that can pull their weight in a trial then you need to see how they are in a trial... Not just look for a title on their character which you have no way of knowing how long it took them to get that title.

Guy I'm not saying that storm proof is the only indicator you're not dealing a mental potatoe. I'm saying its a strong indicator and that it means the person will eventually be able to acquire maelstrom weapons.

120 million health. Think about that a moment.

I don't think you're a potato

Ultimately it's up to the guild to decide how they want to recruit players. Theres plenty of trial titles out there now anyway, so in my opinion they'd be the ones I'd be looking for if I'm going to recruit people based off a title.

Fair man. I'm just making an argument that maelstrom is one of many good indicators, not that it's the only one

It's not a good indicator at all. There are lots of people running around with that title who still have no idea how to play decent. It doesn't mean anything.

Woeler wrote: »

It's not a good indicator at all. There are lots of people running around with that title who still have no idea how to play decent. It doesn't mean anything.

Ofc not everyone who completed msa is good...but have you seen anyone who is good and never completed it?

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

They've probably found it to be a pretty good metric for what they're looking for in a player. A lot of guilds want people who have either done the work of creating a good build, or done the research of copying a good one, and who then will follow through and achieve something notable in the game. You might be able to complete the content they're running without all that, but you might not be the kind of player they want to run with.

Let me say this again. How is my solo capability (Healing myself and self sustaining) determine me DPsing a trial while there is a healer and support?

becuz of that mentality right there, if you can sustain yurself (aka: dodge, block, "heal", avoid red circle and do mechanics) all while dealing good damage then you meet their requirements.. Trials are not about just "ZOMGURD LOOK AT MY DPS, SO WHAT I DIED" its about execution of mechanics and teamwork, less stress on the healers means more magicka for when it counts.

Good luck on their group finding pure healers if that's the case.

DynastyIXII wrote: »

It may be a solo instance but vmsa is all about understanding mechanics and reacting to them, all about pushing high dps while responding to said mechanics. If you can not do that I find it reasonable to not allow you into the guild. The pressure of running these things isn't just about you, there are 11 other ppl depending on you to understand and react. Don't waste people's time because beating vmsa isn't worth yours. Or make your own guild and make your own requirements.

Agreed. You are running with 11 other people, if you can't pull your weight you might be wasting everybody's time.
There are certainly groups who do take people in without stormproof, so join them.

Sophist_NA wrote: »

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Sophist_NA wrote: »

Not saying I agree or disagree with guilds asking for that requirement, but I can see the logic behind it.

vMA is a good test in terms of your capabilities to perform during mechanically-intense fights. It's a skill test. Bloodspawn is only a dps check because all you do is stand still and do your rotation in a perfect environment, which in a raid setting, will almost certainly won't happen.

You know what else is a good test? Running a practice trial with said person? Where yknow you can actually see them do rather then something you never even watched them do? They could have died 3400 times in VMA and you wouldnt know

True. But you do need to consider a couple of things and try to look at it from the recruiter's perspective:

1. Asking an entire raid group to give a recruitee a raid spot for an end game trial with little to no knowledge of what they're capable of is a lot to ask. But say they do, and it ends up not working out, they would've wasted hours of each other's time. And then you consider how many applicants these guilds need to do this for. It can be inefficient and frustrating for the said guilds.

2. There actually is a big difference between someone who beat vMA and someone who hasn't, regardless how many times they've died. From personal experience, people who have beat vMA progressively gets better the more times they clear it. Anybody who has beaten it will tell you the same. It personally took me 8.5 hours to beat it the first time on my Stamblade during the first day, dying hundreds of time. Now, I've done it flawless on 4 different stamina characters. Bottom line is that it doesn't matter if it takes you 300 deaths to get it done because at the end of the day, it's still better than not beating it.

Totally agree with this, I felt playing maesltrom and going for flawless made me understand the game mechanics better and become a better player.

Stillian wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

It's not a good indicator at all. There are lots of people running around with that title who still have no idea how to play decent. It doesn't mean anything.

Ofc not everyone who completed msa is good...but have you seen anyone who is good and never completed it?

Yup. I know a few people on the NA vMoL leaderboards that can't be bothered with it.

@Wifeaggro13 Well you brought up the crux of the issue. We cannot parse them. We have literally, literally no way to do that...

Jeremy wrote: »

I'll add my two cents to this thread.

Even if I had this coveted title, I would not join this guild after such a demand was made of me simply because the arrogance of it would irritate me.

This isn't to mention that this title doesn't seem to do anything for them anyway. Because after reading an earlier posting by one of the actual guild participants, it seems they died many times over and over before they were able accomplish their goal and required (I believe he or she said hundreds) of hours of practice. So it seems irregardless of their precious title, they still had to go through the same learning process players without a title would likely have to go through. So this guild's entire argument is disproved by their own experiences, which is amusing to say the least though not in a particularly good way.

To the OP: I agree with you. It is obviously stupid. But I would try not to let it bother you (though I certainly approve of you mocking it).

So much wrong with this post.

What is arrogant on giving a requirement to join the guild? As I already said in an earlier post testing everbody that wants to join and see if he/she fits the guild takes so much time away when you also want to progress with the already existing group of the guild. Making a requirement to lower the amount of people that need testing is only rational as there are many people that can´t even grasp the fact that there are actual mechanics to follow in vMOL/vSO/vHRC/vAA and their hardmodes.

You obviously never did vMOL as this makes vMA a piece of cake in comparsion so even the best groups needed about a whole month to first finish this trial after its release. vMA was cleared on PTS. So saying this title helped them nothing is just ignorant and simply not true.

TL;DR: Making requirements greatly reduces the amount of testing of applicants and for an mid upwards skilled guild thats trying to get good scores but is still far away from number 1 Stormproof is a good test as it shows that people most likely can follow mechanics and have a better chance of being valuable for the guild.

Jeremy wrote: »

The best way to judge another player's abilities is to play with them.

Just as the best judge of a prospective employee is to have them work in the company for a few days and have people evaluate how they do.

But that is impractical and time-consuming to do for everyone. You need an initial screening process. It's why job applications ask for credentials. Then once you make it past that initial screening filter, they'll take the time to try you out.

Same thing here. If you're looking at a prospective candidate for a damage dealer, vMA completion is a reasonable initial screening criteria. Also, different tiers of guilds will have different requirements. Something like this would of course be out of place for a guild that just raids for fun and for completions, but it's entirely reasonable for guilds that are competing for leaderboard spots.

As for DPS numbers, yes, some of it is people measuring their so-called e-peens, but it is also a necessity. If you've stepped into the revamped trials in veteran difficulty mode, you'll see that there is a baseline of DPS and player ability that you must have or else you're not going to be clearing it. With the exception of vMoL, the baseline requirement for just clearing the content isn't that high and is easily achievable by good-but-not-elite players. And for competitive runs, more DPS is necessary for time and score. This don't-worry-and-play-how-you-want is fine for certain content (normal-difficulty trials) and many guilds (social guilds, trade guilds, just-for-fun guilds, etc.). But not fine for competitive guilds competing in the vet-difficulty trials.

code65536 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

The best way to judge another player's abilities is to play with them.

Just as the best judge of a prospective employee is to have them work in the company for a few days and have people evaluate how they do.

But that is impractical and time-consuming to do for everyone. You need an initial screening process. It's why job applications ask for credentials. Then once you make it past that initial screening filter, they'll take the time to try you out.

Same thing here. If you're looking at a prospective candidate for a damage dealer, vMA completion is a reasonable initial screening criteria. Also, different tiers of guilds will have different requirements. Something like this would of course be out of place for a guild that just raids for fun and for completions, but it's entirely reasonable for guilds that are competing for leaderboard spots.

As for DPS numbers, yes, some of it is people measuring their so-called e-peens, but it is also a necessity. If you've stepped into the revamped trials in veteran difficulty mode, you'll see that there is a baseline of DPS and player ability that you must have or else you're not going to be clearing it. With the exception of vMoL, the baseline requirement for just clearing the content isn't that high and is easily achievable by good-but-not-elite players. And for competitive runs, more DPS is necessary for time and score. This don't-worry-and-play-how-you-want is fine for certain content (normal-difficulty trials) and many guilds (social guilds, trade guilds, just-for-fun guilds, etc.). But not fine for competitive guilds competing in the vet-difficulty trials.

were playing a game not a career. now if your just building your trial core and you have not invested time into your community yet by grouping for veteran dungeons then your in for a world of hurt with personality conflicts. youll never get a true picture of how these folks handle pressure, communication or take direction.

Jeremy wrote: »

I'll add my two cents to this thread.

Even if I had this coveted title, I would not join this guild after such a demand was made of me simply because the arrogance of it would irritate me.

This isn't to mention that this title doesn't seem to do anything for them anyway. Because after reading an earlier posting by one of the actual guild participants, it seems they died many times over and over before they were able accomplish their goal and required (I believe he or she said hundreds) of hours of practice. So it seems irregardless of their precious title, they still had to go through the same learning process players without a title would likely have to go through. So this guild's entire argument is disproved by their own experiences, which is amusing to say the least though not in a particularly good way.

To the OP: I agree with you. It is obviously stupid. But I would try not to let it bother you (though I certainly approve of you mocking it).

This particular attitude right here is so common from tone deaf people, it just cracks me up.

VMSA is one of many indicators you use to screen people for the veteran trials guilds/teams. It's a strong indicator your can handle yourself and understand the game mechanics. We get people who can't handle it all the time but are stormproof. But a very high percentage of people who don't die in popcorn HAVE completed it versus those who do not.

I am a very laid back person and I like socializing, screwing around, and having fun in ESO. I lead a raid team and I need to make decisions which effect 11 other people when they log in. Having some forms of screening makes sense.

You don't like it, that's fine. Fortunately you'll never raid with me and I won't have to tell you how bad at ESO you probably are.

elium85 wrote: »

@Wifeaggro13 You totally miss my point. We're on console - parses don't exist.

i did miss that my error.

Requirements such as Stormproof are pointless really. People can pay someone to do vMA for them and it doesn't really show you how well they'd play in a group environment. Sure, they can do damage and sustain themselves but they have to be willing to play as part of a team. If I had 2 competent people to fill a slot for a raid group, both have Sunderflame but 1 refuses to use it because it's only CP140, then I'm picking the guy that will wear it because that's extra DPS for the group as a whole vs just an extra DPS body.