The Stormproof requirement for Trial guilds is stupid

Woeler · August 2016

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Why do I need to complete a solo instance to DPS in a damn 12man raid? What if I dont even have the DLC are you just gonna gateway everyone without the DLC away? I killed Bloodspawn in around 40s but because Im stuck on Stage 9 boss on VMA. Its just dumb that Ill never complete a Trail because I refuse to finish VMA because I dont wanna have to do 5 rounds again just to get to the boss BC zeni doesnt wanna CP rounds. So again what does a solo instance have to do with a group play? Is it your way to feel special by having a dumb requirement just to say your guild is exclusive?

[Title changed for language]

Because the inherent design of all Zenis group dynamics is centered around DPS, not much group strategy , executing of roles , or true Team dynamics. Its morso in trials then anywhere. Its everyone stack on Boss 2 healers and produce 40 k DPS. You barely need a tank . Gone are the days of EQ2 that required CC, Controlled DPS,burst, slow burnand stop stop Buffing and Debuffing , correct execution of your job . No pulling technique, leash, solo or Line of sight. just an indivdual DPS check wow.

Because you did AA before the revamp patch right? You know how this game works! LOL. This entire post, one, big, lol. Try the new trials in hardmode or try veteran maw.

code65536 · August 2016

The best test is to bring someone into a vet trial and evaluate how they do.

But that's not always practical.

Requiring Stormproof isn't ideal. But as far as quick tests go, it's more useful than Blood Spawn, since it ensures a baseline of mechanical awareness and overall player skill and not just raw DPS. This is particularly important as vMoL and the rescaled trials are more mechanically demanding and no longer static stack-and-burns.

Doctordarkspawn · August 2016

elium85 wrote: »

Actually we had a tank go in a basically full tank setup and get Flawless. Scored a ~200 and took him 6 hours!

How the hell did he do that and where do I go for that kind of crazy ***?

acw37162 · August 2016

elium85 wrote: »

Agreed, one clear does not guarantee ideal weapons. However, every DD (including myself) on our trials teams has run vMA 50+ times for ideal weapons. That's what it takes to be an endgame raider in ESO at this point. I know of no way around it.

This isn't just kinda sad it's real sad borderline pathetic.

Look below to see what a real endgame trial guild should should like when recruiting or looking for new members. See @kargen27 post.

Mortehl · August 2016

Generally speaking people who are storm proof can avoid popcorn. Just saying.

mdylan2013 · August 2016

I don't want a Stormproof tank or healer in my trial, it's a completely irrelevant title for them.

Cously · August 2016

1) Freedom of association, a fantastic conquest of western values! They don't want you. You despise them. Why in Oblivion would you whine about their requirements or feel bad about not joining them? It's their problem. They either will have an awesome top 1 guild or they will die because nobody wants / can't join. Regardless, it is NOT your business.

2) Two years go I could not find a decent werewolf roleplaying guild. The ones I found were either dead or joint with vampires or not roleplayers. I made my own, through hard work and luck I achieved success and it is the most popular werewolf guild in NA. If you feel excluded or feel that the current guilds are stupid and can't supply your needs...make a guild where you don't need people to have Stormproof in order to do a trial instead of whine about the work of others.

3) The way it looks you just want a free ride without doing the effort. And it seems like the people doesn't want to give you the free ride. I see no problem here, move along. Take the higher ground and learn something instead of whine to save face.

GrigorijMalahevich · August 2016

L2P issue.

If you can't complete VMA - you are quite bad. People can decide their own rules on recruitment minimum requirements. As long as it is not sexist or/and racist, nobody cares.

Stormproof is actually proof that you have completed the most difficult solo content in the game. The end.

OrphanHelgen · August 2016

Find another guild or get better at the game.
Cant blame guilds for making rules. Its not like they going against the game rules or anything.
If you want that specific guild, then follow their rules. If you dont want it, find another one.
If you dont want any of those options, make your own guild and see how easy it is. If you ever become very good and experience, you might see why you need such requirements when you are stuck for 3 hours on serpent because your random guildmates cannot dodge the world shaper.

Btw vmol is 20 times harder then the arena.

mdylan2013 · August 2016

Valera Progib wrote: »

L2P issue.

If you can't complete VMA - you are quite bad. People can decide their own rules on recruitment minimum requirements. As long as it is not sexist or/and racist, nobody cares.

Stormproof is actually proof that you have completed the most difficult solo content in the game. The end.

Exactly, the most difficult SOLO content in the game. Solo play is completely different to trials. You can be an amazing solo player but absolutely suck in a large group trial, it also works the other way.

Do you believe that a tank or a healer should have Stormproof?

Cously · August 2016

It seems the guild is asking for players who have demonstrated full grasp of mechanics. In a trial, all roles must understand mechanics and Maelstrom is a legit gauge mechanism for that. Whilst the realistic scenario should be the guild allow the candidate to run a veteran trial with them and observe his grasp of mechanics in that specific run, maybe they don't want to waste that time with people and want them to come fully ready. High DPS on Bloodspawn, a stationary target, doesn't demonstrate grasp of raid mechanics.

magnusthorek · August 2016

I hope this doesn't become a standard because speaking for myself, I'm unable to complete VMa due physical limitations and health conditions

Qbiken · August 2016

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Why do I need to complete a solo instance to DPS in a damn 12man raid? What if I dont even have the DLC are you just gonna gateway everyone without the DLC away? I killed Bloodspawn in around 40s but because Im stuck on Stage 9 boss on VMA. Its just dumb that Ill never complete a Trail because I refuse to finish VMA because I dont wanna have to do 5 rounds again just to get to the boss BC zeni doesnt wanna CP rounds. So again what does a solo instance have to do with a group play? Is it your way to feel special by having a dumb requirement just to say your guild is exclusive?

[Title changed for language]

Never heard of anything as stupid as this. Just find another guild. I can get those guilds who wants to place #1 at leaderboards and therefore want you to have BiS gear (like some maelstrom weapons). But this....

Izaki · August 2016

mdylan2013 wrote: »

Valera Progib wrote: »

L2P issue.

If you can't complete VMA - you are quite bad. People can decide their own rules on recruitment minimum requirements. As long as it is not sexist or/and racist, nobody cares.

Stormproof is actually proof that you have completed the most difficult solo content in the game. The end.

Exactly, the most difficult SOLO content in the game. Solo play is completely different to trials. You can be an amazing solo player but absolutely suck in a large group trial, it also works the other way.

Do you believe that a tank or a healer should have Stormproof?

If you can survive on your own then you can survive in a group environment while focusing more on DPS. Is it that hard to understand or are you not wanting to understand? Vet Maelstrom Arena is the best way to get to know your character/class/build. Obviously you won't run the same build in vMA as you would in vSO, but nonetheless its quite close. More importantly what it shows is that without a fully specced DPS build he can deal enough damage (DPS races are everywhere in vMA) and that he can survive without having a super tanky/self healing build. Its as simple as that. Especially that in trials there's much more to be aware of than in vMA, the difference is you have more people to focus on all the different stuff.

That tank or healer question is just stupid. Like seriously, would you ask for a DPS test for a tank too?

Darlon · August 2016

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Why do I need to complete a solo instance to DPS in a damn 12man raid? What if I dont even have the DLC are you just gonna gateway everyone without the DLC away? I killed Bloodspawn in around 40s but because Im stuck on Stage 9 boss on VMA. Its just dumb that Ill never complete a Trail because I refuse to finish VMA because I dont wanna have to do 5 rounds again just to get to the boss BC zeni doesnt wanna CP rounds. So again what does a solo instance have to do with a group play? Is it your way to feel special by having a dumb requirement just to say your guild is exclusive?

[Title changed for language]

Because the inherent design of all Zenis group dynamics is centered around DPS, not much group strategy , executing of roles , or true Team dynamics. Its morso in trials then anywhere. Its everyone stack on Boss 2 healers and produce 40 k DPS. You barely need a tank . Gone are the days of EQ2 that required CC, Controlled DPS,burst, slow burnand stop stop Buffing and Debuffing , correct execution of your job . No pulling technique, leash, solo or Line of sight. just an indivdual DPS check wow.

Where's the lol button when you need it....

code65536 · August 2016

mdylan2013 wrote: »

I don't want a Stormproof tank or healer in my trial, it's a completely irrelevant title for them.

Seeing as how the OP was listing Blood Spawn as a qualification, I would assume that he was applying to be a damage dealer, and that the requirement applies to that role.

mdylan2013 · August 2016

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

mdylan2013 wrote: »

Valera Progib wrote: »

L2P issue.

If you can't complete VMA - you are quite bad. People can decide their own rules on recruitment minimum requirements. As long as it is not sexist or/and racist, nobody cares.

Stormproof is actually proof that you have completed the most difficult solo content in the game. The end.

Exactly, the most difficult SOLO content in the game. Solo play is completely different to trials. You can be an amazing solo player but absolutely suck in a large group trial, it also works the other way.

Do you believe that a tank or a healer should have Stormproof?

If you can survive on your own then you can survive in a group environment while focusing more on DPS. Is it that hard to understand or are you not wanting to understand? Vet Maelstrom Arena is the best way to get to know your character/class/build. Obviously you won't run the same build in vMA as you would in vSO, but nonetheless its quite close. More importantly what it shows is that without a fully specced DPS build he can deal enough damage (DPS races are everywhere in vMA) and that he can survive without having a super tanky/self healing build. Its as simple as that. Especially that in trials there's much more to be aware of than in vMA, the difference is you have more people to focus on all the different stuff.

That tank or healer question is just stupid. Like seriously, would you ask for a DPS test for a tank too?

Asking for Stormproof is flawed.

As it is now, a sorc can pretty much burn through every round using overload. They just have to keep charging ultimate.

You can die a thousand times in VMA and still get the title. No trial group will want someone that dies constantly

It's lazy guild recruitment.

boldscot · August 2016

Just be glad you are given an opportunity to get involved, I've never done a vet triall never mind hard mode.

I join guilds, nothing happens. I join guilds who organise stuff through Facebook, put my name down for stuff and nothing happens.
I've got flawless conquerer and still can't get into a serious trials guild.

I've done all trials with random groups on normal and they are all easy on normal, other than VMSA there's nothing for me to do.

Neophyte · August 2016

I know a few people who have beat vMaw vSO etc who haven't finished maelstrom on veteran. This requirement is pretty silly. If you can grasp the mechanics in these raids it can be done. Although having the desired weapon for your build from vmsa will help a lot more.

Paneross · August 2016

More than likely the higher ups of the guild can't do it themselves and just piggy back off the ones who can.

Wifeaggro13 · August 2016

code65536 wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Why do I need to complete a solo instance to DPS in a damn 12man raid? What if I dont even have the DLC are you just gonna gateway everyone without the DLC away? I killed Bloodspawn in around 40s but because Im stuck on Stage 9 boss on VMA. Its just dumb that Ill never complete a Trail because I refuse to finish VMA because I dont wanna have to do 5 rounds again just to get to the boss BC zeni doesnt wanna CP rounds. So again what does a solo instance have to do with a group play? Is it your way to feel special by having a dumb requirement just to say your guild is exclusive?

[Title changed for language]

Because the inherent design of all Zenis group dynamics is centered around DPS, not much group strategy , executing of roles , or true Team dynamics. Its morso in trials then anywhere. Its everyone stack on Boss 2 healers and produce 40 k DPS. You barely need a tank . Gone are the days of EQ2 that required CC, Controlled DPS,burst, slow burnand stop stop Buffing and Debuffing , correct execution of your job . No pulling technique, leash, solo or Line of sight. just an indivdual DPS check wow.

You obviously haven't done vMoL or even the revamped vet trials.

your correct ive not done the revamped or vet Mol. Did mol regular last night. but everything i said above does not change the fact that my afore mentioned mechanics do not exist in ESO. there are no pulling techniques waves are based on timers not what or how mobs are pulled. there is no aggro table, CC does not exist in a form that would equate to finishing a group of mobs then selectinng lets say the shaman form selceted CC group and killing him alone. the tank pulls a bunch of melee to him the group stacks on the shaman or casters burns it down then runs to tank.all the mechanics are based of DPS healing is probably secondary utility is an afterthought . The simple fact that the upper echelon guilds require you to meet the DPS check for VMA is the indicator of where ZOs game design flaw is. Im not critising the elite i am simply pointing oout the flaw in design, there is no tank check,heal check, or even utility check because those roles are minor compared to DPS production much of the vet content can be done with out a tank in heavy armor or CP built for the role. while i am not taking away there achievments. People who are completeing the trials are indeed good cordinated and work as a unit. Ive completed most of the 2 new Hist dungeons and there are a couple bosses where the Tank role is needed but for 85 % of the dungeons you could bring 4 dps that heal them selves.

Burning_Talons · August 2016

Minute_Waltz wrote: »

Just having a stormproof title requirement is stupid.. it just takes time to grind out round 9 over and over until you kill the boss. It doesn't mean that player is geared or skilled enough to compete in vet trials.

For those who complain or can't compete in vma, I'm sorry but you are simply not good enough for vet trials or vDSA. I had people complain about vma being solo and how they enjoyed vdsa group arena etc, and then when vDSA gets scaled to cp160, they have no idea what they are doing in there and unless they get carried by good player/groups, there is no way for them to complete it.

I think its better for the elite guilds to set it as a certain score requirement and adjust accordingly to different classes. (ie 400k min. for mag sorc, 300k min for mag dk etc) Because if people are able to achieve this they are likely to be skilled enough for any mechanics thrown at them, as well as higher chance of being geared with vma weapons. Even with that requirement, you still shouldn't be guarenteed a spot in the core unless you can prove to be a team player AND pulling high dps AND ability to adapt and survive.

Valera Progib wrote: »

L2P issue.

If you can't complete VMA - you are quite bad. People can decide their own rules on recruitment minimum requirements. As long as it is not sexist or/and racist, nobody cares.

Stormproof is actually proof that you have completed the most difficult solo content in the game. The end.

This coming from a sorc ha

AverageJo3Gam3r · August 2016

Better requirement is to run vICP or vWGT a few times with them. These dungeons give enough of a picture if the applicant follows mechanics, has good DPS, stands out of red, and how they interact with others under pressure. And they're short enough that it doesn't waste a lot of time with bad players.

DurzoBlint13 · August 2016

I joined a trial guild at one point that required you to solo the lower-Craglorn delve with the three Lamias boss(s). You had to send the video of you doing it under a certain time AND have all gold gear to be deemed "Trial ready". They disbanded and I have not found another since then.
...but I am still looking if anyone knows of any that are recruiting (ps4/NA)?

timidobserver · August 2016

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Since when is any gear required for any content?

To join a Trial guild...(All of the one i applied for apparently) requires stormproof

spud1639 wrote: »

Well they aren't worth your time if they act like that, just elitist being elitist.

I cant find any

timidobserver wrote: »

So find a different guild.....

Cant find any

I personally would not make that a requirement for my guild, because it is a silly requirement, but I get why they did it if you are on console. There are probably a ton of completely inexperienced players trying to get into trial guilds on console. It's basically a way to screen players. You don't have to be the best player in the world to finish vMSA, but if you finish it you are guaranteed to have a basic understanding of how to play your class, a basic ability to do acceptable dps(unless you decided to tank it for 6 hours), and a basic ability to move out of the red.

idk · August 2016

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Why do I need to complete a solo instance to DPS in a damn 12man raid? What if I dont even have the DLC are you just gonna gateway everyone without the DLC away? I killed Bloodspawn in around 40s but because Im stuck on Stage 9 boss on VMA. Its just dumb that Ill never complete a Trail because I refuse to finish VMA because I dont wanna have to do 5 rounds again just to get to the boss BC zeni doesnt wanna CP rounds. So again what does a solo instance have to do with a group play? Is it your way to feel special by having a dumb requirement just to say your guild is exclusive?

[Title changed for language]

Because the inherent design of all Zenis group dynamics is centered around DPS, not much group strategy , executing of roles , or true Team dynamics. Its morso in trials then anywhere. Its everyone stack on Boss 2 healers and produce 40 k DPS. You barely need a tank . Gone are the days of EQ2 that required CC, Controlled DPS,burst, slow burnand stop stop Buffing and Debuffing , correct execution of your job . No pulling technique, leash, solo or Line of sight. just an indivdual DPS check wow.

Have you even ran trials recently. That will not work in vet trials.

Sleep · August 2016

that's want that guild requires. you can make your own guild that doesn't require anyone to stomp roof.

s7732425ub17_ESO · August 2016

No real raid guild is going to have a requirement like that. There's a 100% chance you will be running with players who really don't know what they are doing, so you don't want to be in that guild.

Remember, there are a lot of noobs in this game. And there are a lot of high level noobs who think they know what they are doing but have a very poor understanding of the game and don't really understand what it takes to be a good Trials leader.

Xeven · August 2016

It seems like a reasonable requirement to me. If I'm going to invest 2-3 hours running "difficult" PvE content, I'm certainly not going to do it with a handful of scrubs.

malchior · August 2016

Yep pretty stupid. Comparing solo content to trials is just silly as they are not even the same type of situations.

Trials works on team strategy, vMA solo survival. Being good in vMA does not guarantee that you'll work well in a team > Trials.

I rather have someone who is willing to learn trials than someone who excels in solo and thus know only to look after themselves when put in a Trials situation.