The Stormproof requirement for Trial guilds is stupid

bebynnag · August 2016

no imagine how i felt when i was turned down as a TANK for trials because i dont have stormproof!

Burning_Talons · August 2016

darthsithis wrote: »

on xbox btw

Cant find ur name

NoRagret · August 2016

i completed vma with my stage 4 vampire and 20 cp points into fire protection, whats your excuse? get gud

Recremen · August 2016

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

They've probably found it to be a pretty good metric for what they're looking for in a player. A lot of guilds want people who have either done the work of creating a good build, or done the research of copying a good one, and who then will follow through and achieve something notable in the game. You might be able to complete the content they're running without all that, but you might not be the kind of player they want to run with.

Let me say this again. How is my solo capability (Healing myself and self sustaining) determine me DPsing a trial while there is a healer and support?

@Burning_Talons

I'll say it again, too, it's probably being used as a general metric and not a specific stress-test for your DPS capacity. You can't just expect to pull 40k DPS and have everyone falling over themselves to bring you along. It's useful to know that someone is willing to learn the mechanics of a fight and can actually execute the maneuvers to boot. Folks don't want to bring someone along who's going to wipe the whole group when they put the dark circle next to the light circle, or chain a poison DoT onto everyone, repeatedly, for the whole trial.

The more I think about it, the more VMA is a pretty solid baseline metric. What's more, they don't have to waste time doing a test run with any prospective guildie. They can see that you're up to snuff by your solo achievement, which can be good for the aspirant as well since they don't need to beg 11 other people to run a test trial with them. They can prove their capabilities on their own time, which is actually pretty unique in an MMO.

raidentenshu_ESO · August 2016

What is a stormproof? LOL

me_ming · August 2016

xblackroxe wrote: »

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

They've probably found it to be a pretty good metric for what they're looking for in a player. A lot of guilds want people who have either done the work of creating a good build, or done the research of copying a good one, and who then will follow through and achieve something notable in the game. You might be able to complete the content they're running without all that, but you might not be the kind of player they want to run with.

Let me say this again. How is my solo capability (Healing myself and self sustaining) determine me DPsing a trial while there is a healer and support?

Easy, bc having good numbers doesn´t mean you are a good dps. You need to be aware about whats happening about you. VMA is simply a place that needs people to have skill to finish. You can´t just stand still and dps like on Bloodspawn.
I can really understand why this guild uses this to see if you have skill.

Don't you wear different gear, use different spells in vMA? Yes, it is a gauge that you get situational awareness in vMA, but then again, so does PvP.

Having Stormproof as a requirement to join a trial guild is: 1.) the guild's prerogative, but, 2.) like what OP mentioned, a silly requirement. Luckily in PC NA I have yet to encounter a guild that will have a requirement as silly as this.

Minute_Waltz · August 2016

Just having a stormproof title requirement is stupid.. it just takes time to grind out round 9 over and over until you kill the boss. It doesn't mean that player is geared or skilled enough to compete in vet trials.

For those who complain or can't compete in vma, I'm sorry but you are simply not good enough for vet trials or vDSA. I had people complain about vma being solo and how they enjoyed vdsa group arena etc, and then when vDSA gets scaled to cp160, they have no idea what they are doing in there and unless they get carried by good player/groups, there is no way for them to complete it.

I think its better for the elite guilds to set it as a certain score requirement and adjust accordingly to different classes. (ie 400k min. for mag sorc, 300k min for mag dk etc) Because if people are able to achieve this they are likely to be skilled enough for any mechanics thrown at them, as well as higher chance of being geared with vma weapons. Even with that requirement, you still shouldn't be guarenteed a spot in the core unless you can prove to be a team player AND pulling high dps AND ability to adapt and survive.

Vaoh · August 2016

I'm sorry but that is not that elitist. Elitist would require Flawless Conqueror to join up! Then you probably avoid the guild.

Stormproof is definitely a good way to measure if a player is both strong and confident in their abilities. Can they beat Veteran Maelstrom Arena? If they can, then they can most likely hold their own in trials where the fighting is even more dangerous.

Veteran trials are difficult and demanding. You can't bring any random into it who says they're good or everyone's time will be wasted. Not easy to just gather 12 people and smoothly run through a trial.

My solution would simply be to earn Stormproof, showing you have a worthy enough build and skillset to actually take on those trials.

Thing is, I am confident you could get Stormproof but don't feel like it. If it was my guild I'd 100% let you in anyway because I wouldn't use that to hold players back. The guild you want to join sounds firm on its members having Stormproof though

just beat the arena 1 time already!

Totalitarian · August 2016

Curragraigue wrote: »

Pretty silly requirement. Complete solo content to show you can do group content. What about the healers and tank did they have to have the title as well on their tank and heals characters?

If you can beat vMA on your DPS, you can do it on your healer.

Instructions:
1. Respec CP do be DPS setup
2. Change gear
3. Beat vMA as a DPS

kargen27 · August 2016

Minute_Waltz wrote: »

For those who complain or can't compete in vma, I'm sorry but you are simply not good enough for vet trials or vDSA.

I have zero interest in running VMA. For me it just isn't fun. I have no problem though with trials nor DSA. I just recently started doing trials so I need a couple of runs to learn the mechanics of each fight then after that I am good to go. There are people that won't or can't run VMA that have more than enough skills to contribute their fair share and more to a group doing trials. I also know people who can run VMA with no deaths that suck in a group because they do not understand group dynamics and/or will not coordinate with group efforts. Ya know the type. The ones that won't wait for the tank to pull, gets out of the healers range or targets mobs that the group doesn't consider top priority.

You wanna know how someone will contribute in a group situation you put them in a group situation. Guilds that are unwilling to help others grow often find themselves short on bodies when it comes time to run events.

xblackroxe · August 2016

me_ming wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

They've probably found it to be a pretty good metric for what they're looking for in a player. A lot of guilds want people who have either done the work of creating a good build, or done the research of copying a good one, and who then will follow through and achieve something notable in the game. You might be able to complete the content they're running without all that, but you might not be the kind of player they want to run with.

Let me say this again. How is my solo capability (Healing myself and self sustaining) determine me DPsing a trial while there is a healer and support?

Easy, bc having good numbers doesn´t mean you are a good dps. You need to be aware about whats happening about you. VMA is simply a place that needs people to have skill to finish. You can´t just stand still and dps like on Bloodspawn.
I can really understand why this guild uses this to see if you have skill.

Don't you wear different gear, use different spells in vMA? Yes, it is a gauge that you get situational awareness in vMA, but then again, so does PvP.

Having Stormproof as a requirement to join a trial guild is: 1.) the guild's prerogative, but, 2.) like what OP mentioned, a silly requirement. Luckily in PC NA I have yet to encounter a guild that will have a requirement as silly as this.

Actually I I don´t wear different stuff for vma. I only do VMA on stam chars atm and for pretty much anything I have Vigort on my bars anyway so no change there.

Stormproof is not a silly requirement. Its the only real hard content in this game that doesn´t require you to have a group of 12 people to start. So that means you can learn and understand tactics, know how to avoid damage in case healers are dead/stunned whatever and also means that you have a baseline of understanding how to dps. All that is something any trial guild that wants to compeat for leaderboard will look for in any person not only but mostly dps. Furthermore it means that you most likely have the capability to get must-have weapons for competetive dps.

All that together doesn´t seem to me irrelevant in anyway so I´d say using Stormproof as a requirement will sort out any people that are not made for stuff the guild wants to do. And if a person fullfills this requirement and still can´t play you notice that fast anyway and still can get rid of him/her.

Minute_Waltz · August 2016

Totalitarian wrote: »

Curragraigue wrote: »

Pretty silly requirement. Complete solo content to show you can do group content. What about the healers and tank did they have to have the title as well on their tank and heals characters?

If you can beat vMA on your DPS, you can do it on your healer.

Instructions:
1. Respec CP do be DPS setup
2. Change gear
3. Beat vMA as a DPS

Doesn't even have to be that complicated.. I ran my templar through using my healer setup (although I can still pull 20k dps in dungeons with it) to get the title.. lacked dps for sure as I had to do almost 2 rounds of gold ghost in the end but its definitely doable.

Might need to regear the tanks tho if they wanna compete for vma

Artjuh90 · August 2016

for a strong raiding guild sometimes 50 members is beter then having 500....so i do get the requirement.

kadar · August 2016

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

They've probably found it to be a pretty good metric for what they're looking for in a player. A lot of guilds want people who have either done the work of creating a good build, or done the research of copying a good one, and who then will follow through and achieve something notable in the game. You might be able to complete the content they're running without all that, but you might not be the kind of player they want to run with.

Let me say this again. How is my solo capability (Healing myself and self sustaining) determine me DPsing a trial while there is a healer and support?

vMA is about damage and mechanics. Watch any high quality player get a no-death, or a fast clear in vMA. Healing and sustain are afterthoughts compared to damage and mechanics, which is what Trial guilds want to see in a player.

me_ming · August 2016

xblackroxe wrote: »

me_ming wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

They've probably found it to be a pretty good metric for what they're looking for in a player. A lot of guilds want people who have either done the work of creating a good build, or done the research of copying a good one, and who then will follow through and achieve something notable in the game. You might be able to complete the content they're running without all that, but you might not be the kind of player they want to run with.

Let me say this again. How is my solo capability (Healing myself and self sustaining) determine me DPsing a trial while there is a healer and support?

Easy, bc having good numbers doesn´t mean you are a good dps. You need to be aware about whats happening about you. VMA is simply a place that needs people to have skill to finish. You can´t just stand still and dps like on Bloodspawn.
I can really understand why this guild uses this to see if you have skill.

Don't you wear different gear, use different spells in vMA? Yes, it is a gauge that you get situational awareness in vMA, but then again, so does PvP.

Having Stormproof as a requirement to join a trial guild is: 1.) the guild's prerogative, but, 2.) like what OP mentioned, a silly requirement. Luckily in PC NA I have yet to encounter a guild that will have a requirement as silly as this.

Actually I I don´t wear different stuff for vma. I only do VMA on stam chars atm and for pretty much anything I have Vigort on my bars anyway so no change there.

Stormproof is not a silly requirement. Its the only real hard content in this game that doesn´t require you to have a group of 12 people to start. So that means you can learn and understand tactics, know how to avoid damage in case healers are dead/stunned whatever and also means that you have a baseline of understanding how to dps. All that is something any trial guild that wants to compeat for leaderboard will look for in any person not only but mostly dps. Furthermore it means that you most likely have the capability to get must-have weapons for competetive dps.

All that together doesn´t seem to me irrelevant in anyway so I´d say using Stormproof as a requirement will sort out any people that are not made for stuff the guild wants to do. And if a person fullfills this requirement and still can´t play you notice that fast anyway and still can get rid of him/her.

It is an elitist requirement, only an elitist-in-denial will tell you it's not. It IS a silly requirement. I'm not saying that completing vMA isn't a good gauge for a better DPS, but it shouldn't be a requirement for someone to join a trial guild.

Panda_Attack · August 2016

Get good kids.

Curragraigue · August 2016

Totalitarian wrote: »

Curragraigue wrote: »

Pretty silly requirement. Complete solo content to show you can do group content. What about the healers and tank did they have to have the title as well on their tank and heals characters?

If you can beat vMA on your DPS, you can do it on your healer.

Instructions:
1. Respec CP do be DPS setup
2. Change gear
3. Beat vMA as a DPS

And prove your usefulness as a healer how?

Praeficere · August 2016

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Oh i got the boss to 8% and died to a damn colossus that spawned and I was ignoring...Big mistake but it discouraged me to even do it again

You got it to 8%, you can finish it mate. Take it slow (killing the summoners so you don't get another colossus) and don't try rushing the stage. The last boss is less about DPS like the previous rounds and more about playing by all the mechanics. The hardest part of the round is actually getting to the point where you were - as long as you get all the gold ghosts and interrupt the boss when you need to, you'll clock it.

elium85 · August 2016

Actually we had a tank go in a basically full tank setup and get Flawless. Scored a ~200 and took him 6 hours!

Woeler · August 2016

Not to mention that stormproof doesn't prove anything. Any bob in this game can get that title.

Totalitarian · August 2016

Curragraigue wrote: »

Totalitarian wrote: »

Curragraigue wrote: »

Pretty silly requirement. Complete solo content to show you can do group content. What about the healers and tank did they have to have the title as well on their tank and heals characters?

If you can beat vMA on your DPS, you can do it on your healer.

Instructions:
1. Respec CP do be DPS setup
2. Change gear
3. Beat vMA as a DPS

And prove your usefulness as a healer how?

In PVE 4-man content, it proves that you're a capable person when it comes to surviving and dealing damage, which are important as a healer in 4-man dungeons.

Also, as mentioned countless times in the thread, it means that you know how to pay attention, and how not to stand in red and stuff like that.

IMO, a Stormproof title is a very good gauge of how much experience you have in game. I, however, wouldn't make it a requirement to join a guild, as I'd be willing to take comparable experience: IE, substantial PVP rank (a high-rank PVPer is generally a good player), vet trial titles, or even several dungeon runs to test mettle.

Minute_Waltz wrote: »

Doesn't even have to be that complicated.. I ran my templar through using my healer setup (although I can still pull 20k dps in dungeons with it) to get the title.. lacked dps for sure as I had to do almost 2 rounds of gold ghost in the end but its definitely doable.

Might need to regear the tanks tho if they wanna compete for vma

Yeah, I know. I got final boss on round 5 to 1.2% on my healer with Ritual Mundus, 5 Piece Seducer, 3/4 Piece Magnus, 2 VD, ~1700 Spell Damage, healing CP, and a poor build, alongside much less experience than I have now.

I've seriously been training up an alt that looks exactly like my healer to be a replacement to her, so I don't have to respec CP to DPS, just have to switch toons XD

Ep1kMalware · August 2016

timidobserver wrote: »

So find a different guild.....

this, I'm in 2 t1 guilds and 2 tier 2 guilds. I thing the most elitest requirement they habe is simply keeping calm in a progression group.

never seen anyone ask for vmsa clear before xD

I'm thinking you're either in a scrub group or they secretlt dont want to let ypu in. either waythete are funner guilde out there.

Waffennacht · August 2016

Death to guilds

Except maybe trading guilds

Edit: to those that say get gud: get outta here with that bs!

If the guild wants it fine, F em, you're better off without them. Not like you're losing anything. More than enough people out there that you can tell them to take a flying leap.

Me? I'm at the screw vMA stage in this game. Yeah I tried grinding in that, not gonna do it again.

LadyNalcarya · August 2016

Waffennacht wrote: »

Death to guilds

Except maybe trading guilds

Umm o_O
That escalated quickly.

Foxic · August 2016

The requirements that some guilds have (mainly console guilds) downright baffles me. But at the end of the day its their guild and they can make the requirements whatever they want.

Dromede · August 2016

I'm in a trial guild that lets any decent players (completed a couple vet dungeons together with any of the guildies, reference system) in for normal trial farm runs. When it comes to vet trial version, priority goes to the ones in core team ( the ones who you know by @name because they run all the time), taking 1 or 2 newbies at a time - this way the run doesn't suffer and we still get a complete.

It's ok for guilds to have expectations. How high or sane those expectations are - that's up to them too. The easiest way to grt into a good guild without jumpimg through hoops - getting to know people during pledges. If group is doing really good, ask people you're grouped up with for a guild invite if they can get you one.

Ariisen · August 2016

The Bloodspawn test tells nothing about you as a player other than your ability to copy\build a character and literally do 4 complete rotations of your skills.

Your idea that "good bloodspawn test = good trial DPS" is as naive as them asking for Stormproof to join the guild, the only way to see if somebody is good is to play with him, see how he reacts to the calls, how he moves and the damage dealt while actually not being dead weight in a trial enviroment.

Wifeaggro13 · August 2016

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Why do I need to complete a solo instance to DPS in a damn 12man raid? What if I dont even have the DLC are you just gonna gateway everyone without the DLC away? I killed Bloodspawn in around 40s but because Im stuck on Stage 9 boss on VMA. Its just dumb that Ill never complete a Trail because I refuse to finish VMA because I dont wanna have to do 5 rounds again just to get to the boss BC zeni doesnt wanna CP rounds. So again what does a solo instance have to do with a group play? Is it your way to feel special by having a dumb requirement just to say your guild is exclusive?

[Title changed for language]

Because the inherent design of all Zenis group dynamics is centered around DPS, not much group strategy , executing of roles , or true Team dynamics. Its morso in trials then anywhere. Its everyone stack on Boss 2 healers and produce 40 k DPS. You barely need a tank . Gone are the days of EQ2 that required CC, Controlled DPS,burst, slow burnand stop stop Buffing and Debuffing , correct execution of your job . No pulling technique, leash, solo or Line of sight. just an indivdual DPS check wow.

Grunim · August 2016

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Why do I need to complete a solo instance to DPS in a damn 12man raid? What if I dont even have the DLC are you just gonna gateway everyone without the DLC away? I killed Bloodspawn in around 40s but because Im stuck on Stage 9 boss on VMA. Its just dumb that Ill never complete a Trail because I refuse to finish VMA because I dont wanna have to do 5 rounds again just to get to the boss BC zeni doesnt wanna CP rounds. So again what does a solo instance have to do with a group play? Is it your way to feel special by having a dumb requirement just to say your guild is exclusive?

[Title changed for language]

Because the inherent design of all Zenis group dynamics is centered around DPS, not much group strategy , executing of roles , or true Team dynamics. Its morso in trials then anywhere. Its everyone stack on Boss 2 healers and produce 40 k DPS. You barely need a tank . Gone are the days of EQ2 that required CC, Controlled DPS,burst, slow burnand stop stop Buffing and Debuffing , correct execution of your job . No pulling technique, leash, solo or Line of sight. just an indivdual DPS check wow.

You just summarized why I stay away from end game group PvE activities in this game. I loved being the person responsible for buffing or debuffing or CCing, etc. I've never enjoyed the DPS super fast thing and that's probably why I never made it through vMA either.

code65536 · August 2016

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Burning_Talons wrote: »

Why do I need to complete a solo instance to DPS in a damn 12man raid? What if I dont even have the DLC are you just gonna gateway everyone without the DLC away? I killed Bloodspawn in around 40s but because Im stuck on Stage 9 boss on VMA. Its just dumb that Ill never complete a Trail because I refuse to finish VMA because I dont wanna have to do 5 rounds again just to get to the boss BC zeni doesnt wanna CP rounds. So again what does a solo instance have to do with a group play? Is it your way to feel special by having a dumb requirement just to say your guild is exclusive?

[Title changed for language]

Because the inherent design of all Zenis group dynamics is centered around DPS, not much group strategy , executing of roles , or true Team dynamics. Its morso in trials then anywhere. Its everyone stack on Boss 2 healers and produce 40 k DPS. You barely need a tank . Gone are the days of EQ2 that required CC, Controlled DPS,burst, slow burnand stop stop Buffing and Debuffing , correct execution of your job . No pulling technique, leash, solo or Line of sight. just an indivdual DPS check wow.

You obviously haven't done vMoL or even the revamped vet trials.