Bryanonymous wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Cazic wrote: »

They should be killable for the sake of realism and choice, with the following rules

- Guards are extremely difficult (like a world boss)
- XP and loot gains are minimal, if anytning at all
- Killing a guard adds a lot of bounty
- Killing a guard summons other guards who will gang up on you

Realism went out the window a long time ago as it relates to this game.

It seems most of your suggestions -to make them extremely difficult, to make them summon more guards to gang up on you - are basically steps in the direction of making them unkillable.

So why complicate the system with a lot of indirect solutions to achieve something that this game does not and will not ever have anyway - i.e. realism?

The main difference being that one is super hard, and the other is impossible... Even though it seems similar, it is completely different.

It would only be super hard if players cooperated. For example: what is to stop criminals from joining forces and ganging up on the guards instead? Then you would be in the same as boat before with the town being repeatedly massacred with no incentive to pay bounties or sneak around.

So it would likely lead to the developers coming to the same end result, which is to make the guards invincible.

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

2)Immersion.
Yes, people bought a TES game, not a GTA game.

Every TES before this had mortal guards. Smh...

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

So in the end, the biggest lol ever. Seriously. You don't went Discussion. You just want all to fall in line with you.

K.

Every TES game had consequenses of killing everyone. Sure, you could do that... But all npcs except guards didnt respawn so it was effectivey the best way to screw up your game.
Also all previous TES games were single player, so no matter what you did in your own game, it could not affect other player's performance and immersion.

Now NPC's can die and respawn. Not sure how that has any relevance as the consequences would be identical.

Single player... MMO... makes no difference. You're arguing with very irrelevant substance.

Umm... No?
How it will be identical if even if you killed everyone, they will still respawn? It wont affect your gameplay in any negative way, you will be able to just kill a guard if he respawns. Now there is at least one consequence - you cant walk around in cities with high bounty. If they would remove guard immunity, you can just kill a guard and proceed. Seriously, name at least one reason to avoid bounties if guards would be killable.
In Morrowind though, you could screw up your entire main quest during a killing spree. Not really comparable.

The negative impact is a bounty which continues to grow and never goes away. How is that so hard to misunderstand? And until it's paid off, you have super guards attacking you on sight.

But what would be the purpose of that bounty? It will be jsut red numbers on your char screen.
If anything is killable, people will just team up and kill it. With insane dps builds many players have, it will be just a matter of seconds.
Imo the only way to make guards killable and keep bounties meaningful would be justice system pvp. So if you would kill a guard, it would respawn normally, without over 9000 buddies, but this would make you pvp flagged for some time.

The purpose is FOR GUARDS TO ATTACK YOU.

So what? Mobs in wilderness also attack me, but theyre weak and useless. Mobs in dungeons attack me, but they arent a threat either. Only a few raid bosses are actually dangerous, but if guards would be that strong and would respawn immediately/summon more guards, they might as well be invincible.

No, 'they might as well be invincible' is not an acceptable response. Invincible is not the same as super hard.

Bryanonymous wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

FortheloveofKrist wrote: »

@Bryanonymous

You can keep arguing with everyone, but it's not going to change. Guards are going to stay unkillable for good reason.

Yea, the reason being MEMORY LEAK. All other opinions are not reasons, they are preferences.

Anything to back up your "memory leak theory" ?
No ? That's what I thought.

PvP justice system would have been fun. But killable guards would just be a burden.

Yes it makes little sense that we can kill Molag Bal and all kind of badass stuff, but not simple guards. I built up a "story" according to which we kill all this stuff with the background help of Meridia, but when we steal or kill Meridia isn't happy so we're left weak when we commit crimes and have bounties.

The game has a memory leak. I'm not here to prove that. It is not relevant to this thread, however I see it first had every time I play. After an hour, my FPS in cities is below 40, then I quit and reload, and bam, back to above 50. EVERYTIME. There is a memory leak, and if you haven't noticed, perhaps your computer is too slow to notice.

So just because YOU and YOUR PARTICULAR PC configuration experience FPS drops, you jump to the conclusion that the game has memory leaks and that this is THE very one and only reason why guards are not killable ????

LoL. You know, hopefully, that performance issues (which, I agree, pretty much of all of us experience at some stage) can have several causes (some of them not even related to ESO, such as our rig, connection, hard drive state, add-ons, etc...). And even in the case of a memory leak (some functions of the game certainly have leaks), there are a million other very valid reasons to make guards unkillable. (Oh wait, you call those "personal preferences").

You'll have to come up with a better argument I'm afraid.

Bryanonymous wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

2)Immersion.
Yes, people bought a TES game, not a GTA game.

Every TES before this had mortal guards. Smh...

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

So in the end, the biggest lol ever. Seriously. You don't went Discussion. You just want all to fall in line with you.

K.

Every TES game had consequenses of killing everyone. Sure, you could do that... But all npcs except guards didnt respawn so it was effectivey the best way to screw up your game.
Also all previous TES games were single player, so no matter what you did in your own game, it could not affect other player's performance and immersion.

Now NPC's can die and respawn. Not sure how that has any relevance as the consequences would be identical.

Single player... MMO... makes no difference. You're arguing with very irrelevant substance.

Umm... No?
How it will be identical if even if you killed everyone, they will still respawn? It wont affect your gameplay in any negative way, you will be able to just kill a guard if he respawns. Now there is at least one consequence - you cant walk around in cities with high bounty. If they would remove guard immunity, you can just kill a guard and proceed. Seriously, name at least one reason to avoid bounties if guards would be killable.
In Morrowind though, you could screw up your entire main quest during a killing spree. Not really comparable.

The negative impact is a bounty which continues to grow and never goes away. How is that so hard to misunderstand? And until it's paid off, you have super guards attacking you on sight.

But what would be the purpose of that bounty? It will be jsut red numbers on your char screen.
If anything is killable, people will just team up and kill it. With insane dps builds many players have, it will be just a matter of seconds.
Imo the only way to make guards killable and keep bounties meaningful would be justice system pvp. So if you would kill a guard, it would respawn normally, without over 9000 buddies, but this would make you pvp flagged for some time.

The purpose is FOR GUARDS TO ATTACK YOU.

So what? Mobs in wilderness also attack me, but theyre weak and useless. Mobs in dungeons attack me, but they arent a threat either. Only a few raid bosses are actually dangerous, but if guards would be that strong and would respawn immediately/summon more guards, they might as well be invincible.

No, 'they might as well be invincible' is not an acceptable response. Invincible is not the same as super hard.

But what is actually super hard? For players with optimized builds and gear only a few raid bosses are hard, and even then, most of difficulty comes from mechanics. And in trials you cant have more than 12 players in group, whihc is not the case in cities. So, to make the guards actually dangerous for anyone who is not a lvl 3 newbie, those guards must be borderline invincible and extremely hard-hitting. Otherwise they will be just zerged and looted, like every other npc in the town.
And this wont be much more immersive than invincible guards. They would still be one man armies.

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

2)Immersion.
Yes, people bought a TES game, not a GTA game.

Every TES before this had mortal guards. Smh...

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

So in the end, the biggest lol ever. Seriously. You don't went Discussion. You just want all to fall in line with you.

K.

Every TES game had consequenses of killing everyone. Sure, you could do that... But all npcs except guards didnt respawn so it was effectivey the best way to screw up your game.
Also all previous TES games were single player, so no matter what you did in your own game, it could not affect other player's performance and immersion.

Now NPC's can die and respawn. Not sure how that has any relevance as the consequences would be identical.

Single player... MMO... makes no difference. You're arguing with very irrelevant substance.

Umm... No?
How it will be identical if even if you killed everyone, they will still respawn? It wont affect your gameplay in any negative way, you will be able to just kill a guard if he respawns. Now there is at least one consequence - you cant walk around in cities with high bounty. If they would remove guard immunity, you can just kill a guard and proceed. Seriously, name at least one reason to avoid bounties if guards would be killable.
In Morrowind though, you could screw up your entire main quest during a killing spree. Not really comparable.

The negative impact is a bounty which continues to grow and never goes away. How is that so hard to misunderstand? And until it's paid off, you have super guards attacking you on sight.

But what would be the purpose of that bounty? It will be jsut red numbers on your char screen.
If anything is killable, people will just team up and kill it. With insane dps builds many players have, it will be just a matter of seconds.
Imo the only way to make guards killable and keep bounties meaningful would be justice system pvp. So if you would kill a guard, it would respawn normally, without over 9000 buddies, but this would make you pvp flagged for some time.

The purpose is FOR GUARDS TO ATTACK YOU.

So what? Mobs in wilderness also attack me, but theyre weak and useless. Mobs in dungeons attack me, but they arent a threat either. Only a few raid bosses are actually dangerous, but if guards would be that strong and would respawn immediately/summon more guards, they might as well be invincible.

No, 'they might as well be invincible' is not an acceptable response. Invincible is not the same as super hard.

But what is actually super hard? For players with optimized builds and gear only a few raid bosses are hard, and even then, most of difficulty comes from mechanics. And in trials you cant have more than 12 players in group, whihc is not the case in cities. So, to make the guards actually dangerous for anyone who is not a lvl 3 newbie, those guards must be borderline invincible and extremely hard-hitting. Otherwise they will be just zerged and looted, like every other npc in the town.
And this wont be much more immersive than invincible guards. They would still be one man armies.

Depends on how they scale the enemies when One Tamriel hits.

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Speaking of performance issues, dont forget about console players. They cant really "buy some better hardware" or whatever.
And yes, they already have performance issues.

Performance is the only legitimate fact that could end this debate.

Bryanonymous wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

It is necessary because: A. If they were dead, there would be no NPC's around. B. There would be no point to paying bounties. C. The justice system would be too easy.

A. Simple fix is to increase the speed of respawns.
B. Wrong. Being attacked on site is still a consequence for being a criminal.
C. No one said the guards should be weak. Make them as strong as group bosses.

I'll concentrate on this part of your post. Because in my opinion you failed to supply effective counter arguments.

A: Increasing the speed in which NPCs spawn would not fix this. All it would do is make the job of murderous criminals easier as they would not have to wait as long to resume their killing sprees.

B: Right. Being attacked on site is not a sufficient consequence to pay bounties if you can just kill what attacks you. Why waste your gold?

C: It doesn't matter how much stronger you make the guards so long as they can be killed. Because so long as they can be killed there is less incentive to sneak around or avoid towns while you have a bounty out on your head. This makes the Justice System easier (and less interesting IMHO).

Your logic only gives opinion, and proves nothing except your personal preference. Being forced to sneak is not an essential part of a justice system. If you had played previous TES games, you would know that being attacked on site was a reason to pay off bounties.

You are not forced to sneak around. You can avoid crime or run from the guards when you are caught. My personal preference would be to simply own the town and kill anyone who gets in my way while I help myself to its spoils. But I can look past myself and realize the over-all damage it would do to the gameplay.

The point of my post as it relates to sneaking around wasn't to describe it as essential anyway. It was to point out that removing it as a necessary element from the Justice System if you want to be an effective criminal makes the system itself easier. I believe that is just a fact regardless of what anyone's preference might be.

Bryanonymous wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

2)Immersion.
Yes, people bought a TES game, not a GTA game.

Every TES before this had mortal guards. Smh...

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

So in the end, the biggest lol ever. Seriously. You don't went Discussion. You just want all to fall in line with you.

K.

Every TES game had consequenses of killing everyone. Sure, you could do that... But all npcs except guards didnt respawn so it was effectivey the best way to screw up your game.
Also all previous TES games were single player, so no matter what you did in your own game, it could not affect other player's performance and immersion.

Now NPC's can die and respawn. Not sure how that has any relevance as the consequences would be identical.

Single player... MMO... makes no difference. You're arguing with very irrelevant substance.

Umm... No?
How it will be identical if even if you killed everyone, they will still respawn? It wont affect your gameplay in any negative way, you will be able to just kill a guard if he respawns. Now there is at least one consequence - you cant walk around in cities with high bounty. If they would remove guard immunity, you can just kill a guard and proceed. Seriously, name at least one reason to avoid bounties if guards would be killable.
In Morrowind though, you could screw up your entire main quest during a killing spree. Not really comparable.

The negative impact is a bounty which continues to grow and never goes away. How is that so hard to misunderstand? And until it's paid off, you have super guards attacking you on sight.

But what would be the purpose of that bounty? It will be jsut red numbers on your char screen.
If anything is killable, people will just team up and kill it. With insane dps builds many players have, it will be just a matter of seconds.
Imo the only way to make guards killable and keep bounties meaningful would be justice system pvp. So if you would kill a guard, it would respawn normally, without over 9000 buddies, but this would make you pvp flagged for some time.

The purpose is FOR GUARDS TO ATTACK YOU.

So what? Mobs in wilderness also attack me, but theyre weak and useless. Mobs in dungeons attack me, but they arent a threat either. Only a few raid bosses are actually dangerous, but if guards would be that strong and would respawn immediately/summon more guards, they might as well be invincible.

No, 'they might as well be invincible' is not an acceptable response. Invincible is not the same as super hard.

But what is actually super hard? For players with optimized builds and gear only a few raid bosses are hard, and even then, most of difficulty comes from mechanics. And in trials you cant have more than 12 players in group, whihc is not the case in cities. So, to make the guards actually dangerous for anyone who is not a lvl 3 newbie, those guards must be borderline invincible and extremely hard-hitting. Otherwise they will be just zerged and looted, like every other npc in the town.
And this wont be much more immersive than invincible guards. They would still be one man armies.

Depends on how they scale the enemies when One Tamriel hits.

Its not an answer... A regular enemy or a worldboss is not a threat at all, even if we're speaking about dlc worldbosses (cause normal ones, with 50-100k hp are a joke). Havent you seen, for example, minotaur boss from the Gold Coast killed in ~10 seconds? Or Orsinium bosses zerged down in the same way?
If guards will be like this, there wont be any consequences of racking up millions of bounty and just farming gold by killing everyone in towns and selling the loot to a fence. Dont tell me it wont happen - it already happens in some locations (most notably a camp near Dragonstar arena).

Bryanonymous wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

2)Immersion.
Yes, people bought a TES game, not a GTA game.

Every TES before this had mortal guards. Smh...

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

So in the end, the biggest lol ever. Seriously. You don't went Discussion. You just want all to fall in line with you.

K.

Every TES game had consequenses of killing everyone. Sure, you could do that... But all npcs except guards didnt respawn so it was effectivey the best way to screw up your game.
Also all previous TES games were single player, so no matter what you did in your own game, it could not affect other player's performance and immersion.

Now NPC's can die and respawn. Not sure how that has any relevance as the consequences would be identical.

Single player... MMO... makes no difference. You're arguing with very irrelevant substance.

Umm... No?
How it will be identical if even if you killed everyone, they will still respawn? It wont affect your gameplay in any negative way, you will be able to just kill a guard if he respawns. Now there is at least one consequence - you cant walk around in cities with high bounty. If they would remove guard immunity, you can just kill a guard and proceed. Seriously, name at least one reason to avoid bounties if guards would be killable.
In Morrowind though, you could screw up your entire main quest during a killing spree. Not really comparable.

The negative impact is a bounty which continues to grow and never goes away. How is that so hard to misunderstand? And until it's paid off, you have super guards attacking you on sight.

But what would be the purpose of that bounty? It will be jsut red numbers on your char screen.
If anything is killable, people will just team up and kill it. With insane dps builds many players have, it will be just a matter of seconds.
Imo the only way to make guards killable and keep bounties meaningful would be justice system pvp. So if you would kill a guard, it would respawn normally, without over 9000 buddies, but this would make you pvp flagged for some time.

The purpose is FOR GUARDS TO ATTACK YOU.

So what? Mobs in wilderness also attack me, but theyre weak and useless. Mobs in dungeons attack me, but they arent a threat either. Only a few raid bosses are actually dangerous, but if guards would be that strong and would respawn immediately/summon more guards, they might as well be invincible.

No, 'they might as well be invincible' is not an acceptable response. Invincible is not the same as super hard.

But what is actually super hard? For players with optimized builds and gear only a few raid bosses are hard, and even then, most of difficulty comes from mechanics. And in trials you cant have more than 12 players in group, whihc is not the case in cities. So, to make the guards actually dangerous for anyone who is not a lvl 3 newbie, those guards must be borderline invincible and extremely hard-hitting. Otherwise they will be just zerged and looted, like every other npc in the town.
And this wont be much more immersive than invincible guards. They would still be one man armies.

Depends on how they scale the enemies when One Tamriel hits.

Its not an answer... A regular enemy or a worldboss is not a threat at all, even if we're speaking about dlc worldbosses (cause normal ones, with 50-100k hp are a joke). Havent you seen, for example, minotaur boss from the Gold Coast killed in ~10 seconds? Or Orsinium bosses zerged down in the same way?
If guards will be like this, there wont be any consequences of racking up millions of bounty and just farming gold by killing everyone in towns and selling the loot to a fence. Dont tell me it wont happen - it already happens in some locations (most notably a camp near Dragonstar arena).

Is there really that much gold in town to begin with? Seems like farming alchemy mats would be faster for gold.

Well its an easy 20-30k per char per day... Pretty good considering that flower farming spots are always full of people.

They should be killable. If guards are killable in Cyrodiil. (Yes PvP guards are guards to.) Why can't we kill the guards in PvE?

Avenias wrote: »

If u can kill guards, then why even bother with justice system. You just have to run in a pack and clean the whole town/city, with 0 fear of penalty.

Except for the novelty of it, I'm not sure it would be an overly profitable venture. What are you going to find in town by killing guards that you wouldn't already find anywhere else in the game without guards? It's just containers with random stuff.

Any thief can rob the town blind alone, so why group up and get in all that trouble? And for what? Some food? Bah!

Giraffon wrote: »

Avenias wrote: »

If u can kill guards, then why even bother with justice system. You just have to run in a pack and clean the whole town/city, with 0 fear of penalty.

Except for the novelty of it, I'm not sure it would be an overly profitable venture. What are you going to find in town by killing guards that you wouldn't already find anywhere else in the game without guards? It's just containers with random stuff.

Any thief can rob the town blind alone, so why group up and get in all that trouble? And for what? Some food? Bah!

Well there are already some spots without guards... And the reward for farming them is a bit higher than just a few food ingredients... A random example of such spot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMUoJyf7J3I
There used to be a very profitable spot in Reaper's march, but its patched now. And some other places that are not patched yet.

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

So then make the bounties at least double that. There's this assumption that owing gold would somehow be irrelevant, however it would get pretty annoying if your character was always an outlaw.

Well, the guards cant take the gold from your bank if they kill you, can they?
It might work if they could...
Otherwise people would just put all their money in their banks.

You keep asking the same question. Crime... Bounty... Guards attack you until clear... That's the point. Characters continue to be attacked. Until you pay, you are always wanted, and you must always defend yourself. If someone chooses to continue this, so what? Let them stay an outlaw. You act as though is is essential for players to always be forced to clear their bounty. Let them stay criminals and be forced to defend themselves against boss level guards.

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

So then make the bounties at least double that. There's this assumption that owing gold would somehow be irrelevant, however it would get pretty annoying if your character was always an outlaw.

Well, the guards cant take the gold from your bank if they kill you, can they?
It might work if they could...
Otherwise people would just put all their money in their banks.

You keep asking the same question. Crime... Bounty... Guards attack you until clear... That's the point. Characters continue to be attacked. Until you pay, you are always wanted, and you must always defend yourself. If someone chooses to continue this, so what? Let them stay an outlaw. You act as though is is essential for players to always be forced to clear their bounty. Let them stay criminals and be forced to defend themselves against boss level guards.

Thats because you didnt answer what would make the guards a threat in that case.
Mobs are attacking us everywhere and its not like they are very dangerous. Worldbosses are being zerged easily.
The thing is, in your scenario being a criminal wont be a "risk vs reward" thing, it would be just a "win-win" gold farming thing and there wont be any incentive to play a "lawful" character.
And yeah, like in real life, killing everyone on sight should be punished.

What makes a Dolmen a threat?

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

So then make the bounties at least double that. There's this assumption that owing gold would somehow be irrelevant, however it would get pretty annoying if your character was always an outlaw.

Well, the guards cant take the gold from your bank if they kill you, can they?
It might work if they could...
Otherwise people would just put all their money in their banks.

You keep asking the same question. Crime... Bounty... Guards attack you until clear... That's the point. Characters continue to be attacked. Until you pay, you are always wanted, and you must always defend yourself. If someone chooses to continue this, so what? Let them stay an outlaw. You act as though is is essential for players to always be forced to clear their bounty. Let them stay criminals and be forced to defend themselves against boss level guards.

Thats because you didnt answer what would make the guards a threat in that case.
Mobs are attacking us everywhere and its not like they are very dangerous. Worldbosses are being zerged easily.
The thing is, in your scenario being a criminal wont be a "risk vs reward" thing, it would be just a "win-win" gold farming thing and there wont be any incentive to play a "lawful" character.
And yeah, like in real life, killing everyone on sight should be punished.

What makes a Dolmen a threat?

Umm... Nothing?
Or bad rng on bosses? XD

P.S.
Actually when there's multiple players fighting at the dolmen youre lucky if you can land a hit on all mobs. Theyre certainly not a threat.

So Dolmen monsters should be invincible?

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

So then make the bounties at least double that. There's this assumption that owing gold would somehow be irrelevant, however it would get pretty annoying if your character was always an outlaw.

Well, the guards cant take the gold from your bank if they kill you, can they?
It might work if they could...
Otherwise people would just put all their money in their banks.

You keep asking the same question. Crime... Bounty... Guards attack you until clear... That's the point. Characters continue to be attacked. Until you pay, you are always wanted, and you must always defend yourself. If someone chooses to continue this, so what? Let them stay an outlaw. You act as though is is essential for players to always be forced to clear their bounty. Let them stay criminals and be forced to defend themselves against boss level guards.

Thats because you didnt answer what would make the guards a threat in that case.
Mobs are attacking us everywhere and its not like they are very dangerous. Worldbosses are being zerged easily.
The thing is, in your scenario being a criminal wont be a "risk vs reward" thing, it would be just a "win-win" gold farming thing and there wont be any incentive to play a "lawful" character.
And yeah, like in real life, killing everyone on sight should be punished.

What makes a Dolmen a threat?

Umm... Nothing?
Or bad rng on bosses? XD

P.S.
Actually when there's multiple players fighting at the dolmen youre lucky if you can land a hit on all mobs. Theyre certainly not a threat.

So Dolmen monsters should be invincible?

No, they're just regular mobs. Wouldnt mind if they would be a bit stronger though.
And your argument is absurd. Killing monsters is not the same as killing citizens, and it never was, in any TES game.

But wait a second, if the monsters are not a threat, why have them at all? By your own logic, the entire game is pointless merely because the player can win. And only certain defeat is enough incentive to deter from getting caught, so what is the point in playing against any monsters at all? What if the Dark Brotherhood started paying you to murder guards? Would it make sense if it was an objective? Your logic is simply terrible.