If you have ever cheated or exploited, for any reason...

SleepyTroll · August 2016

Jules wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Force-Siphon wrote: »

Y'all are acting like people are running around dropping 10 meteors on jules command. Stop being weird and creepy jules streams and is not cheating or condoning cheating.darnathian and others are being creeps at this point and need to get a real life and quit being obsessed with someone in a game.

Creep factor 10/10

Like how is that not breaking the TOS for harassment, something that is the main point of why German was banned in that video yall keep linking. Darnathian should be banned from the forums tbh

Love how just because she is a girl, talking about her or bringing stuff up she did or what people think she does or what ever is creepy lol

Ps if darnathian gets banned can you give him the number too the service rep that German used?

No, it has nothing to do with being female. It has everything to do with him following me in every thread quoting me and harassing me with laughter taken out of context. It has to do with him admitting to watching my stream just to watch me die and rejoice despite not having played this game in months. It has to do with countless whispers in game and then seeing my picture and telling me what state he lives in and telling me to "come and have fun" with him and his wife.

Yeah. Don't even try and tell me that's not 10/10 creep.

Read the post I made after that -_-

Kilandros · August 2016

Jules wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

So you tell me that every player that have ever used wall of elements, lethal arrow, ferocious leap, sharpend weapons etc should all be permanently banned?

I get that you are upset, truly. But if zos hadn't made exploiting and cheating "ok" by never punishing it for almost 2 years things would've been different. If they even fixed the broken skills that allowed players to exploit it faster then once every major patch it would also send different signals to the community. At the moment it's just abuse it while you can, it won't be fixed for several months anyways.

Useing 3rd party software and useing a skill in a way that zos isn't even fixing is two completely different things. 3rd party software is on the players, but broken skills is not our responsibility to fix.

Should stacking nirnhoned in 1.6 for 40k+ spell resistance be on this list too?

If so, rip us all

GTFO this thread. Wow. "How did you get away with it? lololololol"

Please stop harassing me.

Please stop encouraging/cheating. I watched your stteam last night a little. Funny how killable u are now. lol. Justice.

I have never cheated or condoned cheating so the implication of such is unfounded. I am no more or less "killable" now than I was ever before, and if I am it can easily be attributed to swapping from heavy to medium armor recently and being squisher at the sacrifice of having better mobility. I explained this multiple times last night.

You can create whatever fallacies you like in your mind. I do not care what you think. I never really did, but especially have not since you disgustingly tried to flirt with me and solicited me to meet you and your wife in real life on these very forums.

You can continue to think what you want and spread lies based upon hearsay all you want. You can continue to watch my stream albeit creepy that a person who doesn't play this game has such an infatuation with it and with me in particular.

But my request is simple that you stop harassing me. This is the third thread you have brought me up in in less than 48 hours with the exact same lines, quoting and baiting me in threads such as @Vulsin 's who have nothing to do with this.

Stop trying to bait me. Stop harassing me. I have nothing to say or prove to you in any way, shape, or form.

I personally would consider that five different people using CE while in your TS would be considered condoning cheating.

Jules wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

tisk tisk tisk Jules. If only you had stayed DC with Bulbasir and Steve way back when. You and I could have been buddies and you wouldn't have run with the wrong crowd. Quite frankly I would have shared my Greek yogurt with you if you'd had asked. Instead you chose the life of "fake DC". You chose to allow being associated with those that are lightning rods for controversy. And you held on to those rods as lightning struck.

This is a silly post like all of your posts but it is saturated in truth as well.

To me, friendship transcends public opinion. Friendship transcends public hatred. If you can't stand by your friend when everyone hates them then you aren't much of a friend at all.

That is my choice, I am aware of it. I am aware of the tarnish it gives to me and the damage it has caused to my reputation.

Luckily for me, I care more about character than reputation. And reputation is merely what others think of you, while character is who you are. I know who I am. I know I don't cheat and I know never have and never will. I know that in my heart. I would swear that on a bible, on the constitution, on the souls of those I love and everything I hold true in this life. I would only make such statements because I know beyond the shadow of a doubt its validity and sincerity.

This is just a game. But I respect this game, I love this game. However, I love my friends too. It's a very unfortunate catch 22 I find myself in, but it is what it is. The community can hate me if they see fit, which is what many have decided already. But my conscience is clear and I am willing to bet that if anyone throwing shade at me were in the position I find myself now, they would not find it so easy to navigate through.

You are not being a friend to him. You if anything are hurting him. A true friend would call their friend on the truth. A true friend would not blindly stick up for them despite knowing the truth. All you are doing is setting him up for failure in the future. You don't have to condemn him, but don't come and defend him with lies. The fact of the matter is he will always be under suspicion because he did cheat, and people are justified in feeling like that.

I don't understand what you are saying about character either. Have you ever stopped to consider all the players that have spent months trying to improve their vMA times? Have you considered how selfish it was for a player to use CE to get the number one score in the world. Have you considered the gross lack of care for other human beings that demonstrates? Have you considered that defending that behavior shows the same amount of selfishness, and lack of empathy for others?

I have said plenty to him in person that is not evidenced on this thread or anywhere on these forums because I don't feel the need to publicize everything. You have no insight into the friendships in this group or how they function, or whether I do indeed "call him out on the truth" or not. To carelessly assume that I have or have not is based entirely on your imagination and not in reality. Go back and read what I wrote again.

I have neither condemned nor absolved him for specific reason. Because it is impossible to remain unbiased. Everything else you said operates off the assumption that I was defending him. I am merely explaining my position and my reasoning for my loyalty to my friends. I would think, as someone who played closely with lowpolicy for such a long time, you would understand the impossible conundrum much better.

For someone who doesn't "feel the need to publicize everything," you spend a lot of time publicly talking about this. I understand that you are targeted--perhaps too aggressively by certain people--but ultimately it was you who made the choice to play with people you knew were cheating. You should have seen this coming if and when their cheating became public. My advice is to take a break from this drama, let it die down, and move on.

GottbeardESO · August 2016

Rylana wrote: »

You, should leave. Period. Banned, gone, out, no recourse, no review, just get the hell out.

I know, the game is busted, sure, thats a great copout to shift blame for your own idiotic actions. Sort of like blaming gun manufacturers for being able to shoot someone dead right? Extreme hyperbole, still valid. Take some damn responsibility for yourselves. Any of you reading this who are guilty I sincerely wish you werent here anymore. You dont deserve to be here, no matter how well known, how long youve been here, or how much money youve sunk into the game, I really dont care. Youre lucky as all hell I am no GM. Lucky as hell.

I am frankly disgusted, have been for a long time.

Every conversation in Alliance war lately has revolved around this subject, or has been somewhere in the background. Eleven of the last twenty threads reference it either in the OP or in the first few comments. Proud of yourselves?

Short term gain, long term loss. Pathetic, really it is.

PS: we all know who you all are btw, any theorycrafter or long term competitive player has had you pegged for months. Just stop with the victim card or trying to play nitpick, youre guilty as sin.

Lightning staff heavy atks are bugged. They are supposed to only splash damage on the final tick. They splash the AoE on every tick.

If you have performed a lightning heavy atk in the last few patches then you are guilty of exploiting. Delete your account. You are an exploiter.

This is one of the myriad of unassuming bugs one could use to call someone out for being an exploiter. This game is a ticking time bomb.

Hempyre · August 2016

Fasoll wrote: »

German can speak for himself if he wants but I know as of right now he is not at all. so take with that what you want.

"As of right now..."

This line says it all.

I'm disappointed to have to play on the same field with people that shouldn't be back in the game. I see this crew in Cyro all the time and when I do, I turn the other way. I prefer not to engage these, or any players that have chosen this path.

Guilt by association is still guilt, it says that you condone the actions of the people that choose to play in this fashion, and it's a shame as this invalidates and bring into question any achievements that may actually be legit.

Using an in game bug or exploit says enough about the character of the player using it, but at least that's in game. Using third party is a clear decision to defraud the company and peers you play with. You shouldn't be back, period.

Clearly some companies would rather have your sub than their integrity.

Satiar · August 2016

God_flakes wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Force-Siphon wrote: »

Y'all are acting like people are running around dropping 10 meteors on jules command. Stop being weird and creepy jules streams and is not cheating or condoning cheating.darnathian and others are being creeps at this point and need to get a real life and quit being obsessed with someone in a game.

Creep factor 10/10

Like how is that not breaking the TOS for harassment, something that is the main point of why German was banned in that video yall keep linking. Darnathian should be banned from the forums tbh

Love how just because she is a girl, talking about her or bringing stuff up she did or what people think she does or what ever is creepy lol

Ps if darnathian gets banned can you give him the number too the service rep that German used?

No, it has nothing to do with being female. It has everything to do with him following me in every thread quoting me and harassing me with laughter taken out of context. It has to do with him admitting to watching my stream just to watch me die and rejoice despite not having played this game in months. It has to do with countless whispers in game and then seeing my picture and telling me what state he lives in and telling me to "come and have fun" with him and his wife.

Yeah. Don't even try and tell me that's not 10/10 creep.

Screenshots/video or it didn't happen. Nobody, and I mean nobody, desires a ménage-a-trois with you.

Jesus Christ, why are you so petty with Jules? There's salt and then there's whatever this is.

CapuchinSeven · August 2016

Jules wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Force-Siphon wrote: »

Y'all are acting like people are running around dropping 10 meteors on jules command. Stop being weird and creepy jules streams and is not cheating or condoning cheating.darnathian and others are being creeps at this point and need to get a real life and quit being obsessed with someone in a game.

Creep factor 10/10

Like how is that not breaking the TOS for harassment, something that is the main point of why German was banned in that video yall keep linking. Darnathian should be banned from the forums tbh

Love how just because she is a girl, talking about her or bringing stuff up she did or what people think she does or what ever is creepy lol

Ps if darnathian gets banned can you give him the number too the service rep that German used?

No, it has nothing to do with being female. It has everything to do with him following me in every thread quoting me and harassing me with laughter taken out of context. It has to do with him admitting to watching my stream just to watch me die and rejoice despite not having played this game in months. It has to do with countless whispers in game and then seeing my picture and telling me what state he lives in and telling me to "come and have fun" with him and his wife.

Yeah. Don't even try and tell me that's not 10/10 creep.

If that's true, that is 10/10 creep.

Jules · August 2016

Working on the ss as we speak. 100% positive I ss'd it.

zyk · August 2016

Satiar wrote: »

It's a bit surreal man. At this point in ESO most of the Top end PvP community knows everyone, knows who plays legit and who doesn't. This *** gets around.

IMO, this is naive. Sometimes it gets out. It is possible to cheat subtly enough that no one can casually observe it.

Consider how easy it is to cheat in ESO. Then consider other games in which ban wave statistics are published. Consider how many known cheaters our community has. The only reasonable conclusion is that we only know of the tip of the iceberg. Unless this is the most ethical gaming community ever -- and I am certain you already know this is not true.

In communities where cheaters are routinely banned, one quickly learns they almost never admit to it. And why would they? Consider the mentality of the cheater. Why would they be opposed to lying? What would they have to gain by being honest? They will downplay cheating, obfuscate the topic with shades of grey, they will lie to their final posts. If you catch them in a lie or contradiction, they will keep lying.

Memory hacking needs to be a social red line. We need to set the expectation to fellow players that if they are caught memory hacking, they will be excluded from the greater community. ZOS may not discipline cheaters, but we can add social deterrents.

By embracing cheaters by allowing them back in groups and social circles, you encourage the next cheater who decides the benefits are worth the risk.

Satiar · August 2016

zyk wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

It's a bit surreal man. At this point in ESO most of the Top end PvP community knows everyone, knows who plays legit and who doesn't. This *** gets around.

IMO, this is naive. Sometimes it gets out. It is possible to cheat subtly enough that no one can casually observe it.

Consider how easy it is to cheat in ESO. Then consider other games in which ban wave statistics are published. Consider how many known cheaters our community has. The only reasonable conclusion is that we only know of the tip of the iceberg. Unless this is the most ethical gaming community ever -- and I am certain you already know this is not true.

In communities where cheaters are routinely banned, one quickly learns they almost never admit to it. And why would they? Consider the mentality of the cheater. Why would they be opposed to lying? What would they have to gain by being honest? They will downplay cheating, obfuscate the topic with shades of grey, they will lie to their final posts. If you catch them in a lie or contradiction, they will keep lying.

Memory hacking needs to be a social red line. We need to set the expectation to fellow players that if they are caught memory hacking, they will be excluded from the greater community. ZOS may not discipline cheaters, but we can add social deterrents.

By embracing cheaters by allowing them back in groups and social circles, you encourage the next cheater who decides the benefits are worth the risk.

Eh? I was saying it's stupid to defend known cheaters, I don't think we disagree.

Rohamad_Ali · August 2016

Stop stalking each other that thread is so creepy I wants to call the 911 an reports a crime . Optical terrorism .

zyk · August 2016

Satiar wrote: »

Eh? I was saying it's stupid to defend known cheaters, I don't think we disagree.

Apologies. Most of that rant wasn't directed at you at all. I only wanted to stress that we probably don't know who most of the cheaters are by addressing part of your post.

Lokey0024 · August 2016

Mustard wrote: »

Neither German or ZOS will respond after this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4X159ibyyiA&feature=share

Wow. Just wow.
Was kinda feelin the stand by your friends bit, but first thing said is asking how to get away with it. I laughed.

LegacyDM · August 2016

Regardless if he cheats or not he's not a very good player. Alliance points is not a good metric of skill. All he does is spam shields and jumps up and down. He hits like a pillow and just runs back and forth between cubby holes on alyssia bridge spamming shields and laying mines. When you get him in a 1v1 situation he just spams shields until his "crew shows up". If his crew can't show up he just bolts away and tries to los until crew shows up.

Message to him and crew. man up and fight, and stop the los bridge ***. These people who think they are good at the game because they can tight rope walk around catwalks or spam shields make me laugh.

We never see these people in IC. You know why? Because there is no LOS bs. Los is such a crutch.

This is why we need arenas/battlegrounds. A forum where it's straight up combat.

While I can't accuse this guy of cheating, I have ss of really suspicious combat logs and videos on insane amount of damage absorption. it Does Rsise an eyebrow...

Satiar · August 2016

zyk wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Eh? I was saying it's stupid to defend known cheaters, I don't think we disagree.

Apologies. Most of that rant wasn't directed at you at all. I only wanted to stress that we probably don't know who most of the cheaters are by addressing part of your post.

No worries mate.

ZOS_PeterT · August 2016

As you may have noticed several post have been removed from this conversation.

I would like to remind all that we do allow a level of disagreement on the forums, being that this is an integral part of the PVP community.

However, we do not tolerate any attacks that are personal , that bait another player or even flame a discussion.

These actions are against our forum rules.

Please continue your discussion on topic and with our Guidelines in mind.

Fasoll · August 2016

[SNIP]

LegacyDM wrote: »

Regardless if he cheats or not he's not a very good player. Alliance points is not a good metric of skill. All he does is spam shields and jumps up and down. He hits like a pillow and just runs back and forth between cubby holes on alyssia bridge spamming shields and laying mines. When you get him in a 1v1 situation he just spams shields until his "crew shows up". If his crew can't show up he just bolts away and tries to los until crew shows up.

Message to him and crew. man up and fight, and stop the los bridge ***. These people who think they are good at the game because they can tight rope walk around catwalks or spam shields make me laugh.

We never see these people in IC. You know why? Because there is no LOS bs. Los is such a crutch.

This is why we need arenas/battlegrounds. A forum where it's straight up combat.

While I can't accuse this guy of cheating, I have ss of really suspicious combat logs and videos on insane amount of damage absorption. it Does Rsise an eyebrow...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=au-Y4E_hpHE

CapuchinSeven · August 2016

Jules wrote: »

Working on the ss as we speak. 100% positive I ss'd it.

Then yes, that is 100% creepy.

Congrats working on CU though, awesome.

....yeah still 100% creepy though.

Rohamad_Ali · August 2016

Fasoll wrote: »

[SNIP]

LegacyDM wrote: »

Regardless if he cheats or not he's not a very good player. Alliance points is not a good metric of skill. All he does is spam shields and jumps up and down. He hits like a pillow and just runs back and forth between cubby holes on alyssia bridge spamming shields and laying mines. When you get him in a 1v1 situation he just spams shields until his "crew shows up". If his crew can't show up he just bolts away and tries to los until crew shows up.

Message to him and crew. man up and fight, and stop the los bridge ***. These people who think they are good at the game because they can tight rope walk around catwalks or spam shields make me laugh.

We never see these people in IC. You know why? Because there is no LOS bs. Los is such a crutch.

This is why we need arenas/battlegrounds. A forum where it's straight up combat.

While I can't accuse this guy of cheating, I have ss of really suspicious combat logs and videos on insane amount of damage absorption. it Does Rsise an eyebrow...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=au-Y4E_hpHE

This is you German on the forums or another ? If this is German then it is known with a perfect gear score and well timed attacks the 1VsX on Sorc against less skilled pugs is possible and doesn't mean cheating every time . I still don't know why you think showing these videos will make people change their minds however . If you want people to respect your skill and let go of the past then do things that make that happen . Anyway I wish you luck and please don't bounce on me anymore or give away SnapChat pics .

SleepyTroll · August 2016

I know how German can shut everyone up and prove them all wrong. Go do VMA and score withen a reasonable amount of Wich his world record was. He could even record it with shadow play to really shut everyone up.

Rylana · August 2016

Let me clarify something

I mean ALL, i dont mean a subjective wishwash, i literally mean ALL cheats past or present. Double mundus? Get out, Malubeth? Bye Felicia. CE? HAHAHAHAHA. ive watched one after another come and go, and its time.

if that results in an empty game, so be it, remove the cancer and perhaps someday fair play would return or prevail, but as it is today? The culture fostered over almost 3 years of creeping, eating, slow cancer? Yeah, id rather everyone was just gone.

I am a bit more optimistic than that though, there are a lot of decent self respecting players with a sense of honor and integrity out there. The game wouldnt die, the sky wouldnt fall, but we might lose a bar of population in each faction in trueflame or so

I am okay with this, as long as the cancer is gone.

it started small, to be sure, but it spreads, and spreads.

God_flakes · August 2016

A bar less for each faction in TF is exactly what this game needs.

Rohamad_Ali · August 2016

SleepyTroll wrote: »

I know how German can shut everyone up and prove them all wrong. Go do VMA and score withen a reasonable amount of Wich his world record was. He could even record it with shadow play to really shut everyone up.

I like that and it's a positive challenge not negative . Those kind of things I know I respect seeing done .

newtinmpls · August 2016

themdogesbite wrote: »

But if zos hadn't made exploiting and cheating "ok" by never punishing it for almost 2 years things would've been different.

Please re-read your own sentence here and look at the lack of logic.

"Not punishing" is NOT the same as making anything okay.

It simply gave time for people to demonstrate .... over and over again ... what kind of people they are.

Ban exploiters and cheaters.

Thank you.

SubtleHate · August 2016

Reverb wrote: »

I used to use the shard glitch in WGT, does that mean I should leave?

In all seriousness, I fully support and respect Rylana's stance here, and admire his commitment to running very competitive, high functioning PvP guild that doesn't indulge in exploits.

Inb4 @Rylana reports you for being smarter than he is

Satiar · August 2016

Rylana wrote: »

Let me clarify something

I mean ALL, i dont mean a subjective wishwash, i literally mean ALL cheats past or present. Double mundus? Get out, Malubeth? Bye Felicia. CE? HAHAHAHAHA. ive watched one after another come and go, and its time.

if that results in an empty game, so be it, remove the cancer and perhaps someday fair play would return or prevail, but as it is today? The culture fostered over almost 3 years of creeping, eating, slow cancer? Yeah, id rather everyone was just gone.

I am a bit more optimistic than that though, there are a lot of decent self respecting players with a sense of honor and integrity out there. The game wouldnt die, the sky wouldnt fall, but we might lose a bar of population in each faction in trueflame or so

I am okay with this, as long as the cancer is gone.

it started small, to be sure, but it spreads, and spreads.

Nah.

If you don't see the difference between stuff like CE and Malbeth than you're just too close to this. Like I said above, category error. In guild that's the difference between "knock that *** off" and a guild kick.

JDar · August 2016

Lucky28 wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

I dunno. i really don't consider Leaping/ambushing into keeps an exploit those are two aspects that make defending and taking keeps very very fun. I mean a tower farm being broken before it can begin because a Nightblade followed someone through the door is priceless.

I would be beyond pissed if ZoS took that out of the game.

The called it themselves an exploit...so it doesn't matter what you consider in this case. Jumping (ambush, leap, whatever) into keeps without taking down the wall is an exploit.

it fits into the form of PvP Cyrodiil offers in every other regard. i can only assume that it is only now being considered an exploit because of Crit rush being broken after the changes to gap closers.

however, how can something that has been in the game for what two years suddenly be considered an exploit?. that's rather nonsensical considering it's a "mechanic" that players have grown accustomed to and enjoy using for a more flavorful defense/offense.

everything being jammed into one category is rather limiting.

i will defend this vehemently, as i have said before it makes defending and taking keeps more fun and engaging you can't just think "oh i'm in a keep/tower i'm safe" you have to be situationally aware regardless. i really do not want that aspect taken out of PvP.

Just because you think it makes for a fun gameplay mechanic, doesn't mean it's not an exploit. They don't want you to do it, and you do it anyway. That's exploiting.

This is an example of mindset of a lot of cheaters. I try to understand the mentality of these people, and usually they justify it by saying something like this:

"It should be in the game anyway"
"It's more fun"
"The game is imbalanced, I have every right to level the playing field"
"They are using cheesy builds"
"I would beat them one on one anyway so this just makes things faster for both of us"
"I'm smart enough to figure this out, so I deserve to have this power"
"It still takes skill and good equipment anyway, so a few exploits don't make that big of a difference."
"Everybody can know about this if they take the time, so if I don't do it, I'll be at a disadvantage."

If you have ever thought any of these thoughts, you're a scumbag and I wish you great misfortune.

JDar · August 2016

Fasoll wrote: »

I am in the same boat as jules, I have never cheated in this game minus double mundus way back in 1.6 which was almost a requirement as many did it way back

I have news for you. You're a cheater.

SleepyTroll · August 2016

@JDar it's funny you said the "They are using cheesy builds" part because grand overlord stamplar used this as an excuse when bragging about him doing his exploit to perma stun people lol

I think you are spot on.

Jules · August 2016

Rylana wrote: »

Let me clarify something

I mean ALL, i dont mean a subjective wishwash, i literally mean ALL cheats past or present. Double mundus? Get out, Malubeth? Bye Felicia. CE? HAHAHAHAHA. ive watched one after another come and go, and its time.

if that results in an empty game, so be it, remove the cancer and perhaps someday fair play would return or prevail, but as it is today? The culture fostered over almost 3 years of creeping, eating, slow cancer? Yeah, id rather everyone was just gone.

I am a bit more optimistic than that though, there are a lot of decent self respecting players with a sense of honor and integrity out there. The game wouldnt die, the sky wouldnt fall, but we might lose a bar of population in each faction in trueflame or so

I am okay with this, as long as the cancer is gone.

it started small, to be sure, but it spreads, and spreads.

I hate malubeth permablock aids builds. Cyrodiil would be a better place without them. But this is just legit insane.
You can't permaban people bc zos overturned a set and can't fix a bug. Just like permabans for gap closers not working as intended, these are both completely illogical.

yodased · August 2016

Jules wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Let me clarify something

I mean ALL, i dont mean a subjective wishwash, i literally mean ALL cheats past or present. Double mundus? Get out, Malubeth? Bye Felicia. CE? HAHAHAHAHA. ive watched one after another come and go, and its time.

if that results in an empty game, so be it, remove the cancer and perhaps someday fair play would return or prevail, but as it is today? The culture fostered over almost 3 years of creeping, eating, slow cancer? Yeah, id rather everyone was just gone.

I am a bit more optimistic than that though, there are a lot of decent self respecting players with a sense of honor and integrity out there. The game wouldnt die, the sky wouldnt fall, but we might lose a bar of population in each faction in trueflame or so

I am okay with this, as long as the cancer is gone.

it started small, to be sure, but it spreads, and spreads.

I hate malubeth permablock aids builds. Cyrodiil would be a better place without them. But this is just legit insane.
You can't permaban people bc zos overturned a set and can't fix a bug. Just like permabans for gap closers not working as intended, these are both completely illogical.

Yes, yes you can. Beyond can, should.

Walls up you are in a keep killing people setting up siege? Perm Ban
Gate up and you are in a scroll area? Perm Ban.
You use a broken and completely OP set? Warning, 1 warning, then perm ban.
Cheat engine? Your cpu fan stops working.

The mindset that its in the game so I can use it is the "legit insane" mindset.

They are actually completely logical, because no one is getting banned for gapclosing.

That strawman won't work because people are getting banned for what it is they are doing after the gap close.

go ahead, gap close into a keep right now with 100 people recording you, and then leave the keep without interacting with other players, you won't be in any sort of trouble what-so-ever because you were not exploiting anything, you just clicked a button.

The mindset that "i'm here now because this was broken so everything I do after this is null and void although I KNOW for a fact its not allowed" is "legit insane"