ZoS... A word please...

caeliusstarbreaker · August 2016

code65536 wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Instead of spell pen, light armor should give 6% spell damage boost.

Um, for most magicka builds, that'll be a nerf.

You're getting 6% spell dmg

That penetration passive is actually better than the medium armor 12% weapon damage passive. Even if you were to propose changing it to a 12% spell damage passive (not a pitiful 6%), it would still be an undesirable proposition.

First, bypassing 4884 resistance will boost your damage output by approximately 7.5%.

Second, your damage output scales off of your spell damage and max magicka, so a 6% increase in spell damage will result in less than half that in actual damage since you're only boosting half of your damage stats.

For a typical magicka build, you're looking at 40K max magicka and between 2K and 2.7K base spell damage (the medium armor passive boosts the base weapon damage, not the weapon damage after weapon power buffs, guild buffs, and other amps). Let's be generous here and say around 3K base spell damage (this requires things like Alchemist buffs, which is for burst and not sustained damage). That gives you an effective pool of 70K. Boosting the spell damage by 12% would boost the effective pool to 73.6K, which corresponds to a 5% increase in damage output. And that's if we're doing 12%, not 6%, and using an generously high 3K base spell damage, which most builds won't have. With your proposed 6%, that's only about a 2.5% increase in damage output. Compared to the 7.5% from bypassing 4884 resistance, this is a huge nerf.

Now, the only time this wouldn't work out in your favor is if your target as so little spell resistance that you're over-penetrating. You'll get about 5K penetration from sharpened weapons. Around 5K from this light armor passive. If using destro staff attacks and abilities, 10% of the enemy's resistance (so 1.1-1.5K in most cases). And maybe 1-2K from CP. A typical medium armor wearer will have about 12K spell resistance. A light armor wearer will actually have more (largely due to light armor passives that more than make up for the lower base resistance of light armor; my main in light armor has over 15K resistance). So even with sharpened weapons and this light armor passive, you will not be overpenetrating or just barely overpenetrating. And even if you are facing a target with unusually low resistance that you do end up overpenetrating, you have to overpenetrate by a lot to make up for the difference of the penetration being thrice as good.

TL;DR: Concentration is an amazing passive. Far, far better than Agility. Most players don't realize this because penetration numbers are not flashy and glamorous.

That's all well and good but penetration is not buffing heals, nor shields. Which is the primary means aside from perma blocking for dmg mitigation.

Added: both mag and stam are getting a bit of a damage reduction.

code65536 · August 2016

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Instead of spell pen, light armor should give 6% spell damage boost.

Um, for most magicka builds, that'll be a nerf.

You're getting 6% spell dmg

That penetration passive is actually better than the medium armor 12% weapon damage passive. Even if you were to propose changing it to a 12% spell damage passive (not a pitiful 6%), it would still be an undesirable proposition.

First, bypassing 4884 resistance will boost your damage output by approximately 7.5%.

Second, your damage output scales off of your spell damage and max magicka, so a 6% increase in spell damage will result in less than half that in actual damage since you're only boosting half of your damage stats.

For a typical magicka build, you're looking at 40K max magicka and between 2K and 2.7K base spell damage (the medium armor passive boosts the base weapon damage, not the weapon damage after weapon power buffs, guild buffs, and other amps). Let's be generous here and say around 3K base spell damage (this requires things like Alchemist buffs, which is for burst and not sustained damage). That gives you an effective pool of 70K. Boosting the spell damage by 12% would boost the effective pool to 73.6K, which corresponds to a 5% increase in damage output. And that's if we're doing 12%, not 6%, and using an generously high 3K base spell damage, which most builds won't have. With your proposed 6%, that's only about a 2.5% increase in damage output. Compared to the 7.5% from bypassing 4884 resistance, this is a huge nerf.

Now, the only time this wouldn't work out in your favor is if your target as so little spell resistance that you're over-penetrating. You'll get about 5K penetration from sharpened weapons. Around 5K from this light armor passive. If using destro staff attacks and abilities, 10% of the enemy's resistance (so 1.1-1.5K in most cases). And maybe 1-2K from CP. A typical medium armor wearer will have about 12K spell resistance. A light armor wearer will actually have more (largely due to light armor passives that more than make up for the lower base resistance of light armor; my main in light armor has over 15K resistance). So even with sharpened weapons and this light armor passive, you will not be overpenetrating or just barely overpenetrating. And even if you are facing a target with unusually low resistance that you do end up overpenetrating, you have to overpenetrate by a lot to make up for the difference of the penetration being thrice as good.

TL;DR: Concentration is an amazing passive. Far, far better than Agility. Most players don't realize this because penetration numbers are not flashy and glamorous.

That's all well and good but penetration is not buffing heals, nor shields. Which is the primary means aside from perma blocking for dmg mitigation.

Shields scale off of max magicka, not spell damage. If you cared about self-heals, then assigning 10 CP into Blessed will increase your heals by 5% (which is what a 12% Spell Damage increase would net you). If you had assigned those 10 CP into Spell Erosion instead, you would've gotten a mere 647 penetration. A rational player would be much better off keeping their Concentration penetration of nearly 5K and shifting any Spell Erosion points into Blessed. Stronger heals and damage than scrapping Concentration for a pitiful 12% Spell Damage increase.

Again, Concentration is arguably one of the best--if not the best--armor passive in the game. Replacing it with anything else would be a nerf to magicka.

Lord_Hev · August 2016

10/10 suggestions, would bang.

NBrookus · August 2016

+1 awesome.

But please don't give anyone another fear mechanic until the buggy CC break on the existing fear is fixed. Another option for an DK "push" would be that knockback + debuff the watchers do.

Joy_Division · August 2016

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

A lot of these suggestions are decent and correctly identify balance issues that should be obvious to anyone objective that PvPs. They more alleviate rather than address what I believe are the root issues plaguing PvP balance, but I could get behind most of them.

I'm not quite sure why you believe Templar Sweeps, an AOE, should be dodgeable though. AoEs are not intended to be dodged. As it is, people simple just have to walk away from the templar to avoid it since it renders the caster immobile. Since it is hard to actually hit people with this ability and making it dodgeable would mean the main templar attack abilities (flare, RD, sweeps) would require ideal circumstances to actually hit people.

Joy, its just cause not all aoe's are undodgeable. Sweeps should be dodgeable, same as jabs are currently. I think you should at least have some measurable accountability, on magplar hands, of how to apply the dark flare heal debuff, wildly flinging into a group without a chance to miss on the debuff is a bit shaky. I am not opposed to it having an instant/near instant cast time however, or a crystal frag like proc chance. But sweeps, Dark flare debuff, and radiant as undodgeable should go imo. Then again, these are all just my opinions.

I am very accountable thank you. I never said the the a dark flare miss should apply the debuff. In fact I think it's dumb that it does.

It's fine that you think every single templar skill in the game should keep their awkward cast mechanics and be dodgeable. There is zero chance the Wrobel will make such a change so it's not like I am worried that I will wake up tomorrow and read that in a patch notes. You have decided to deem one particular class's AoE attack ought to be dodgable and not Sap essence, steel tornado, Draw essence, bombard, etc, and it's a legit question to ask why.

KenaPKK · August 2016

Joy_Division wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

A lot of these suggestions are decent and correctly identify balance issues that should be obvious to anyone objective that PvPs. They more alleviate rather than address what I believe are the root issues plaguing PvP balance, but I could get behind most of them.

I'm not quite sure why you believe Templar Sweeps, an AOE, should be dodgeable though. AoEs are not intended to be dodged. As it is, people simple just have to walk away from the templar to avoid it since it renders the caster immobile. Since it is hard to actually hit people with this ability and making it dodgeable would mean the main templar attack abilities (flare, RD, sweeps) would require ideal circumstances to actually hit people.

Joy, its just cause not all aoe's are undodgeable. Sweeps should be dodgeable, same as jabs are currently. I think you should at least have some measurable accountability, on magplar hands, of how to apply the dark flare heal debuff, wildly flinging into a group without a chance to miss on the debuff is a bit shaky. I am not opposed to it having an instant/near instant cast time however, or a crystal frag like proc chance. But sweeps, Dark flare debuff, and radiant as undodgeable should go imo. Then again, these are all just my opinions.

I am very accountable thank you. I never said the the a dark flare miss should apply the debuff. In fact I think it's dumb that it does.

It's fine that you think every single templar skill in the game should keep their awkward cast mechanics and be dodgeable. There is zero chance the Wrobel will make such a change so it's not like I am worried that I will wake up tomorrow and read that in a patch notes. You have decided to deem one particular class's AoE attack ought to be dodgable and not Sap essence, steel tornado, Draw essence, bombard, etc, and it's a legit question to ask why.

I can't use sap or steel tornado or bombard or draw essence as my spam dps ability to kill you either. Advocate reducing sweeps' damage to their level, and your argument would hold up. Sweeps being undodgeable is hardly a significant issue in the larger picture of PvP, but Rhage is right that it stands out among class dps abilities simply for this reason.

caeliusstarbreaker · August 2016

Joy_Division wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

A lot of these suggestions are decent and correctly identify balance issues that should be obvious to anyone objective that PvPs. They more alleviate rather than address what I believe are the root issues plaguing PvP balance, but I could get behind most of them.

I'm not quite sure why you believe Templar Sweeps, an AOE, should be dodgeable though. AoEs are not intended to be dodged. As it is, people simple just have to walk away from the templar to avoid it since it renders the caster immobile. Since it is hard to actually hit people with this ability and making it dodgeable would mean the main templar attack abilities (flare, RD, sweeps) would require ideal circumstances to actually hit people.

Joy, its just cause not all aoe's are undodgeable. Sweeps should be dodgeable, same as jabs are currently. I think you should at least have some measurable accountability, on magplar hands, of how to apply the dark flare heal debuff, wildly flinging into a group without a chance to miss on the debuff is a bit shaky. I am not opposed to it having an instant/near instant cast time however, or a crystal frag like proc chance. But sweeps, Dark flare debuff, and radiant as undodgeable should go imo. Then again, these are all just my opinions.

I am very accountable thank you. I never said the the a dark flare miss should apply the debuff. In fact I think it's dumb that it does.

It's fine that you think every single templar skill in the game should keep their awkward cast mechanics and be dodgeable. There is zero chance the Wrobel will make such a change so it's not like I am worried that I will wake up tomorrow and read that in a patch notes. You have decided to deem one particular class's AoE attack ought to be dodgable and not Sap essence, steel tornado, Draw essence, bombard, etc, and it's a legit question to ask why.

I only spoke of the dark flare debuff and the sweeps my fellow warrior of Akatosh.

blabafat · August 2016

I think the pen from light armor might be more than a 6% spell damage boost - not on shields, of course (as pen doesn't apply to shields)

caeliusstarbreaker · August 2016

blabafat wrote: »

I think the pen from light armor might be more than a 6% spell damage boost - not on shields, of course (as pen doesn't apply to shields)

For sure blabb... But there is also a substantial stam dmg realignment to bring them both on par with each other.. I think anyway. I'm not saying magicka can't dps with the rest of them. But people keep complaining about not garnishing as high spell dmg as weapon dmg. By removing pen values from armor passives, along with pigeonholing two handed and destruction staff to pen for skill line abilities we can normalize dps a little bit more between the mag stam divide. Stam will have a little more dps, as they should, but not at the current meta level.

code65536 · August 2016

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

But people keep complaining about not garnishing as high spell dmg as weapon dmg.

Um. Who complains about this? Spell Damage and Weapon Damage comprise just a portion of the damage equation. Yes, magicka users have less SD than stam users have WD. But stam users have less max stam than magicka users have max magicka. In the end, it evens out.

What people do complain about (or at least what they really intend to complain about) is the difference in overall damage output. And, yes, there is one. But to blame it on weapon damage is a failure to understand what causes differences in damage output. And to suggest replacing penetration with spell damage is a wholly misguided notion that looks only at one part of the overall damage formula and turning a blind eye the other parts. And it is a suggestion that would actually lower magicka damage output.

The people who "keep complaining" about WD vs. SD are really complaining about overall damage output, but their lack of understanding of how the game works leads them to just lazily point a finger at the most visible stat.

Bromburak · August 2016

ZoS... A word please...

soon

Volrion · August 2016

Maztiax wrote: »

Imagine if ESO was run by PvP forum warriors... *shudders*

Was thinking the same thing... I love Pvp, but my first thoughts on reading this thread was...

What about PVE?

frozywozy · August 2016

and what about the love that magplar truely deserve since all these years without blinding flashes?

KenaPKK · August 2016

SourishWhale wrote: »

Maztiax wrote: »

Imagine if ESO was run by PvP forum warriors... *shudders*

Was thinking the same thing... I love Pvp, but my first thoughts on reading this thread was...

What about PVE?

Reduce health of mobs accordingly.

Who the *** cares? This "what about PvE" bull*** has got to stop. You balance mixed games around PvP first because you can't control players, and then you balance PvE mobs and encounters accordingly. In the end, everything is balanced, and everyone is happy. This mixed priority bs is only making the game more imbalanced over time.

caeliusstarbreaker · August 2016

code65536 wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

But people keep complaining about not garnishing as high spell dmg as weapon dmg.

Um. Who complains about this? Spell Damage and Weapon Damage comprise just a portion of the damage equation. Yes, magicka users have less SD than stam users have WD. But stam users have less max stam than magicka users have max magicka. In the end, it evens out.

What people do complain about (or at least what they really intend to complain about) is the difference in overall damage output. And, yes, there is one. But to blame it on weapon damage is a failure to understand what causes differences in damage output. And to suggest replacing penetration with spell damage is a wholly misguided notion that looks only at one part of the overall damage formula and turning a blind eye the other parts. And it is a suggestion that would actually lower magicka damage output.

The people who "keep complaining" about WD vs. SD are really complaining about overall damage output, but their lack of understanding of how the game works leads them to just lazily point a finger at the most visible stat.

Dude I totally get that it evens out.. And I totally understand that pen and that light armor passive in light armor is an awesome one, however we have to normalize numbers across the two. If we don't there will be exclamation of disparity. Yes I agree that given pen and Max magicka etc, they really aren't that different just different routes to the same goal.. The things I suggested were in a totalarian view, because if we are scaling down stam dmg and healing, magicka dmg must come down as well. I do think stam should hit just a little bit harder than mag, because their dmg pool is tied to dodge and cc break. I'm not disagreeing with your math, I'm just stipulating that if you give medium and light armor the same dmg increase, and then offer destro pen to destro skills two handed pen to two handed skills you would would normaliz/ bring the damage values closer together. Magicka would still be able to reach higher stats, stamina would be able to reach higher wpn dmg, you would both have base pen differed only by wpn skill choices getting more, sb being tanky, bow being ranged, dw being higher dmg on status effected enemies with the deeper pen being split between destro and two handed skills them selves, and not having two handed pen applying to all physical attack while destro only applying to destro skills, with equal base wpn dmg, mages guild increasing max stats and fighters guild increasing wpn dmg.

caeliusstarbreaker · August 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

and what about the love that magplar truely deserve since all these years without blinding flashes?

Dude, I would give almost anything for blind flashes back in the game.

KenaPKK wrote: »

SourishWhale wrote: »

Maztiax wrote: »

Imagine if ESO was run by PvP forum warriors... *shudders*

Was thinking the same thing... I love Pvp, but my first thoughts on reading this thread was...

What about PVE?

Reduce health of mobs accordingly.

Who the *** cares? This "what about PvE" bull*** has got to stop. You balance mixed games around PvP first because you can't control players, and then you balance PvE mobs and encounters accordingly. In the end, everything is balanced, and everyone is happy. This mixed priority bs is only making the game more imbalanced over time.

Honestly, @FENGRUSH said it best, you can more easily adjust pve accordingly to pvp balance than you can factor your changes to pvp based off what's healthy to pve.

KenaPKK · August 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

and what about the love that magplar truely deserve since all these years without blinding flashes?

?

Bashev · August 2016

I dont agree with all proposal but some of them are good and they are really needed. I wish ZoS patch notes looks like that and add tweaks to the skills while trying to find the right balance instead of adding big changes every 6 months which just change the meta but do not balance the game itself.

caeliusstarbreaker · August 2016

KenaPKK wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

and what about the love that magplar truely deserve since all these years without blinding flashes?

?

Blinding flashes was awesome!

Bashev wrote: »

I dont agree with all proposal but some of them are good and they are really needed. I wish ZoS patch notes looks like that and add tweaks to the skills while trying to find the right balance instead of adding big changes every 6 months which just change the meta but do not balance the game itself.

Biggest problem we have is every 2 months or so, we have a new game that swings so far in one direction, that it's just straight ridiculous. I honestly don't think that the theoretical list above is anything too far out of whack, but just some minor changes that could continue to be tweaked and touched up incrementally. You(and everyone) are more than willing to disagree with however many you choose to. I just don't think it kills any class or play style irrevocably, nor would it away the balance to stam or magicka unequivocally.

KenaPKK · August 2016

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

SourishWhale wrote: »

Maztiax wrote: »

Imagine if ESO was run by PvP forum warriors... *shudders*

Was thinking the same thing... I love Pvp, but my first thoughts on reading this thread was...

What about PVE?

Reduce health of mobs accordingly.

Who the *** cares? This "what about PvE" bull*** has got to stop. You balance mixed games around PvP first because you can't control players, and then you balance PvE mobs and encounters accordingly. In the end, everything is balanced, and everyone is happy. This mixed priority bs is only making the game more imbalanced over time.

Honestly, @FENGRUSH said it best, you can more easily adjust pve accordingly to pvp balance than you can factor your changes to pvp based off what's healthy to pve.

Yup, I've been harping on it ever since I saw his rant on his channel. That was the day I realized most players and ZOS don't have commen sense about balance.

And do you really think Blinding Flashes was balanced? I could see giving Templars a nerfed version, or general mitigation against melee damage, or making it so that when standing in rune focus, whenever a single source of damage exceeds 30% of their max health, any remaining damage from that source is halved. That would give low health or light armor magplars a leg up. Not sure if 30% is a balanced margin though..

caeliusstarbreaker · August 2016

@KenaPKK blinding flashes was balanced in that it was 50% miss chance on melee damage(unless you were a 2m bow user/caster) while leaving range open to 100% hit chance, and it pulsed every 2 seconds for like 8 seconds or so. Sure the miss chance could be lowered, but it was really no worse than shuffle.

KenaPKK · August 2016

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

@KenaPKK blinding flashes was balanced in that it was 50% miss chance on melee damage(unless you were a 2m bow user/caster) while leaving range open to 100% hit chance, and it pulsed every 2 seconds for like 8 seconds or so. Sure the miss chance could be lowered, but it was really no worse than shuffle.

Actually it was over two times worse than Shuffle for those melee builds. It was worse than when Shuffle and Blur stacked for those melee builds. Not every class is capable of fighting entirely at range, and closing into melee to try to finish off a Blinding Flashes Templar would be leaving your entire fight up to a coin toss. Not to mention the Templar has his gap closer and should be spending the entire fight in your face anyway.

Perhaps I'm taking this too seriously, but OG Blinding Flashes is gone for a reason. However, if healing gets toned down -- as I believe it should -- then I would like to see some new defensive mechanics for templars.

code65536 · August 2016

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

But people keep complaining about not garnishing as high spell dmg as weapon dmg.

Um. Who complains about this? Spell Damage and Weapon Damage comprise just a portion of the damage equation. Yes, magicka users have less SD than stam users have WD. But stam users have less max stam than magicka users have max magicka. In the end, it evens out.

What people do complain about (or at least what they really intend to complain about) is the difference in overall damage output. And, yes, there is one. But to blame it on weapon damage is a failure to understand what causes differences in damage output. And to suggest replacing penetration with spell damage is a wholly misguided notion that looks only at one part of the overall damage formula and turning a blind eye the other parts. And it is a suggestion that would actually lower magicka damage output.

The people who "keep complaining" about WD vs. SD are really complaining about overall damage output, but their lack of understanding of how the game works leads them to just lazily point a finger at the most visible stat.

Dude I totally get that it evens out.. And I totally understand that pen and that light armor passive in light armor is an awesome one, however we have to normalize numbers across the two. If we don't there will be exclamation of disparity. Yes I agree that given pen and Max magicka etc, they really aren't that different just different routes to the same goal.. The things I suggested were in a totalarian view, because if we are scaling down stam dmg and healing, magicka dmg must come down as well. I do think stam should hit just a little bit harder than mag, because their dmg pool is tied to dodge and cc break. I'm not disagreeing with your math, I'm just stipulating that if you give medium and light armor the same dmg increase, and then offer destro pen to destro skills two handed pen to two handed skills you would would normaliz/ bring the damage values closer together. Magicka would still be able to reach higher stats, stamina would be able to reach higher wpn dmg, you would both have base pen differed only by wpn skill choices getting more, sb being tanky, bow being ranged, dw being higher dmg on status effected enemies with the deeper pen being split between destro and two handed skills them selves, and not having two handed pen applying to all physical attack while destro only applying to destro skills, with equal base wpn dmg, mages guild increasing max stats and fighters guild increasing wpn dmg.

What you're suggesting that stamina and magicka should just be the same with cosmetic differences. The two should be balanced in the final outcome, but the bad way to do it is to just make the two the same with different names and effects. This is like the many suggestions on class "balance" that essentially call for eroding away the distinctions between them. It's a good thing these bonuses are not just mirror images of each other, and for the most part, stamina is well-balanced with magicka stat-wise, so that's not even the right tree to be barking up. It's the other things like abilities (hard-hitting CC-inducing abilities in stam? check), item sets (stamina just has so many more sets to choose from), etc., that cause more divergence in the final outcome.

Armitas · August 2016

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Fragmented shield, should scale of magicka. Changes that worthless flame thing that used to be a toggle, to something worthwhile. Honestly I would just say a dragon roar, which would function the same as fear.. Give minor main, and increase fire dmg done by like 2-4% reduce the cost of abilities by like 4% too

At this point I would be happy with anything that takes FOB off the PvE rotation. Running 5 dot timers, 2 of which are ground dots that have to be redropped when the boss moves, and whip is a painful experience. You could just delete this skill entirely and I would be happy. Though I think most would prefer a flame cloak with dodge, not a toggle but a cast. (There is no room for toggles on a mDK. )

Joy_Division · August 2016

KenaPKK wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

A lot of these suggestions are decent and correctly identify balance issues that should be obvious to anyone objective that PvPs. They more alleviate rather than address what I believe are the root issues plaguing PvP balance, but I could get behind most of them.

I'm not quite sure why you believe Templar Sweeps, an AOE, should be dodgeable though. AoEs are not intended to be dodged. As it is, people simple just have to walk away from the templar to avoid it since it renders the caster immobile. Since it is hard to actually hit people with this ability and making it dodgeable would mean the main templar attack abilities (flare, RD, sweeps) would require ideal circumstances to actually hit people.

Joy, its just cause not all aoe's are undodgeable. Sweeps should be dodgeable, same as jabs are currently. I think you should at least have some measurable accountability, on magplar hands, of how to apply the dark flare heal debuff, wildly flinging into a group without a chance to miss on the debuff is a bit shaky. I am not opposed to it having an instant/near instant cast time however, or a crystal frag like proc chance. But sweeps, Dark flare debuff, and radiant as undodgeable should go imo. Then again, these are all just my opinions.

I am very accountable thank you. I never said the the a dark flare miss should apply the debuff. In fact I think it's dumb that it does.

It's fine that you think every single templar skill in the game should keep their awkward cast mechanics and be dodgeable. There is zero chance the Wrobel will make such a change so it's not like I am worried that I will wake up tomorrow and read that in a patch notes. You have decided to deem one particular class's AoE attack ought to be dodgable and not Sap essence, steel tornado, Draw essence, bombard, etc, and it's a legit question to ask why.

I can't use sap or steel tornado or bombard or draw essence as my spam dps ability to kill you either. Advocate reducing sweeps' damage to their level, and your argument would hold up. Sweeps being undodgeable is hardly a significant issue in the larger picture of PvP, but Rhage is right that it stands out among class dps abilities simply for this reason.

I see. My argument would "hold up" if we lower sweeps damage to that of Sap or Deep Breath, even though the later two hit things in a 180 degree circle, allow the caster unimpeded movement, the ability to block-cast, and an instant-cast which guaranteed 100% of that damage. Jabs also stands out among class DPS abilities in that the target can simply move to the side or backward and completely avoid the attack.

So keep the worst aspects of the ability (locking the templar into place, multiple attacks, and hitting only the immediate frontal arc), while reducing the damage to that of skills that do not have these disadvantages. Go ahead and keep telling others that their arguments don't "hold up."

SanTii.92 · August 2016

I agree for the most part, but wtf is this

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Double all resistance values, increase resist cap to 65%.

Are you nuts?? Tanks are crazy op already.

frozywozy · August 2016

sAnn92 wrote: »

I agree for the most part, but wtf is this

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Double all resistance values, increase resist cap to 65%.

Are you nuts?? Tanks are crazy op already.

There is no way to tank on a magplar. Your only option is to stand there and die to WB spam.

Please bring Blinding Flashes back :'(

KenaPKK · August 2016

Joy_Division wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

A lot of these suggestions are decent and correctly identify balance issues that should be obvious to anyone objective that PvPs. They more alleviate rather than address what I believe are the root issues plaguing PvP balance, but I could get behind most of them.

I'm not quite sure why you believe Templar Sweeps, an AOE, should be dodgeable though. AoEs are not intended to be dodged. As it is, people simple just have to walk away from the templar to avoid it since it renders the caster immobile. Since it is hard to actually hit people with this ability and making it dodgeable would mean the main templar attack abilities (flare, RD, sweeps) would require ideal circumstances to actually hit people.

Joy, its just cause not all aoe's are undodgeable. Sweeps should be dodgeable, same as jabs are currently. I think you should at least have some measurable accountability, on magplar hands, of how to apply the dark flare heal debuff, wildly flinging into a group without a chance to miss on the debuff is a bit shaky. I am not opposed to it having an instant/near instant cast time however, or a crystal frag like proc chance. But sweeps, Dark flare debuff, and radiant as undodgeable should go imo. Then again, these are all just my opinions.

I am very accountable thank you. I never said the the a dark flare miss should apply the debuff. In fact I think it's dumb that it does.

It's fine that you think every single templar skill in the game should keep their awkward cast mechanics and be dodgeable. There is zero chance the Wrobel will make such a change so it's not like I am worried that I will wake up tomorrow and read that in a patch notes. You have decided to deem one particular class's AoE attack ought to be dodgable and not Sap essence, steel tornado, Draw essence, bombard, etc, and it's a legit question to ask why.

I can't use sap or steel tornado or bombard or draw essence as my spam dps ability to kill you either. Advocate reducing sweeps' damage to their level, and your argument would hold up. Sweeps being undodgeable is hardly a significant issue in the larger picture of PvP, but Rhage is right that it stands out among class dps abilities simply for this reason.

I see. My argument would "hold up" if we lower sweeps damage to that of Sap or Deep Breath, even though the later two hit things in a 180 degree circle, allow the caster unimpeded movement, the ability to block-cast, and an instant-cast which guaranteed 100% of that damage. Jabs also stands out among class DPS abilities in that the target can simply move to the side or backward and completely avoid the attack.

So keep the worst aspects of the ability (locking the templar into place, multiple attacks, and hitting only the immediate frontal arc), while reducing the damage to that of skills that do not have these disadvantages. Go ahead and keep telling others that their arguments don't "hold up."

You really do live in a bubble where Templars are victimized, performing horribly, and in dire need of buffs aren't you?

KenaPKK · August 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

sAnn92 wrote: »

I agree for the most part, but wtf is this

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Double all resistance values, increase resist cap to 65%.

Are you nuts?? Tanks are crazy op already.

There is no way to tank on a magplar. Your only option is to stand there and die to WB spam.

Please bring Blinding Flashes back :'(

?

Magus · August 2016

KenaPKK wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

A lot of these suggestions are decent and correctly identify balance issues that should be obvious to anyone objective that PvPs. They more alleviate rather than address what I believe are the root issues plaguing PvP balance, but I could get behind most of them.

I'm not quite sure why you believe Templar Sweeps, an AOE, should be dodgeable though. AoEs are not intended to be dodged. As it is, people simple just have to walk away from the templar to avoid it since it renders the caster immobile. Since it is hard to actually hit people with this ability and making it dodgeable would mean the main templar attack abilities (flare, RD, sweeps) would require ideal circumstances to actually hit people.

Joy, its just cause not all aoe's are undodgeable. Sweeps should be dodgeable, same as jabs are currently. I think you should at least have some measurable accountability, on magplar hands, of how to apply the dark flare heal debuff, wildly flinging into a group without a chance to miss on the debuff is a bit shaky. I am not opposed to it having an instant/near instant cast time however, or a crystal frag like proc chance. But sweeps, Dark flare debuff, and radiant as undodgeable should go imo. Then again, these are all just my opinions.

I am very accountable thank you. I never said the the a dark flare miss should apply the debuff. In fact I think it's dumb that it does.

It's fine that you think every single templar skill in the game should keep their awkward cast mechanics and be dodgeable. There is zero chance the Wrobel will make such a change so it's not like I am worried that I will wake up tomorrow and read that in a patch notes. You have decided to deem one particular class's AoE attack ought to be dodgable and not Sap essence, steel tornado, Draw essence, bombard, etc, and it's a legit question to ask why.

I can't use sap or steel tornado or bombard or draw essence as my spam dps ability to kill you either. Advocate reducing sweeps' damage to their level, and your argument would hold up. Sweeps being undodgeable is hardly a significant issue in the larger picture of PvP, but Rhage is right that it stands out among class dps abilities simply for this reason.

I see. My argument would "hold up" if we lower sweeps damage to that of Sap or Deep Breath, even though the later two hit things in a 180 degree circle, allow the caster unimpeded movement, the ability to block-cast, and an instant-cast which guaranteed 100% of that damage. Jabs also stands out among class DPS abilities in that the target can simply move to the side or backward and completely avoid the attack.

So keep the worst aspects of the ability (locking the templar into place, multiple attacks, and hitting only the immediate frontal arc), while reducing the damage to that of skills that do not have these disadvantages. Go ahead and keep telling others that their arguments don't "hold up."

You really do live in a bubble where Templars are victimized, performing horribly, and in dire need of buffs aren't you?

Joy is right though. Can't block cast jabs like the other abilities with a 360 radius. I'm surprised I don't see more sap tanks these days since heavy armor tanks are all the rage now. I may bring mine back from years past to see how it performs with black rose.