The Vigor barrier!!

olsborg · August 2016

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

if it used to be more doesnt mean its ok now, this is one of the most essentail skills and shouldnt behind a huge pvp barrier

I guess the word "huge" is kinda relative. Take a look at the undaunted passives/skills thats behind a "pve-barrier" that dwarfs the "pvp-barrier" to get vigor. I got vigor on an alt in 6 hours.

Anti_Virus · August 2016

Get ready OP for the Toxic PVPers to call you a "carebear" and a scrub

Jaronking · August 2016

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Glamdring wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

if it used to be more doesnt mean its ok now, this is one of the most essentail skills and shouldnt behind a huge pvp barrier

HUGE pvp barrier? A couple days tops for a casual players who has no idea how to play pvp. Took me 3 months of pvping to get vigor for my stamina build before it was nerfed into the ground. But i guess u want all skills unlocked and at max lvl first time u logg into the game. Theese youngsters and their mentality scare me, what will the future hold.

I'm surprised that those of us who don't want to waste their time on tedious stuff are the kids?

maybe we dont have as much free time as you and things that take too long for no reason should be reduced so that those who don't have that much time can access to the basic stuff.

no other game btw forced you to level every single skill in the game.

those hardcore players will always be better on gear, gold and gameplay but tedious grinding for no reason only proves how much time you've wasted nothing more

If you believe this than I promise you you won't beat Vet MA.That's all it is a tedious grind.Plus this game doesn't force you to level every skill you chose to if you want to complete the contents you do the work.The reason the majority of players in this thread disagree with you is because they already reduced it twice.So if you can't get it now in a few hours at most a few days its your own fault.Players like you are the reason content gets nerfed into the ground for no reason.If you can't do it or don't want to do it than don't so the content.Its that simple.Am pretty sure after you unlock vigor and go into Vet MA your going to be back here asking for them to Nerf Vet MA so you can beat it.I dam sure you won't beat it.

even if they did ever ultra nerf vmsa this guy is far too lazy to beat it. Hell, he can't even stand in front of a castle amd collect ap a couple times.

people like him in particular keep sucking enjoyability out of this game, drop by drop.

I agree with you 100% if ZoS keep listening to players like this we will be 1 shooting trial bosses with our light attacks.

EZgoin76 · August 2016

While I don't agree with the OP. If you want vigor, earn it the same as everyone else. I only pvp when I absolutely have to.

The wannabe badasses calling people carebears, or just saying "get good" instead of offering productive advice. Same people also sit at quest givers to gank someone then proceed to teabag them, like the kill was some kind of accomplishment.

It's these people and the technical issues with pvp in this game that keeps me from enjoying it at all.

Btw I have enjoyed pvp in many other games.

GrumpyDuckling · August 2016

This thread is on page seven now and a vast majority of the posts are insulting the OP. I have yet to read a productive post which has expressed a good logical counter argument for why skills like Vigor should be PVP-locked and should not be accessible through gaining PVE experience.

If you look at the basis of the OP's argument, it's an argument that we should all support because it advocates for players to play the content we enjoy the most without having to drudge through content we don't enjoy, to get useful skills. If it helps people understand better, here is the same argument that the OP is using, rephrased:

*Skills which can be used in both PVE and PVP content should not be locked behind PVP-specific or PVE-specific experiences which force players to engage in content they do wish to play.*

That's a perfectly logical argument, which so far - through seven pages - has yet to be countered.

DRXHarbinger · August 2016

Kelces wrote: »

Looks like people intentionally overlook comments stating, that vigor is not needed for whatever PvE challenge.

Here, I'll summarize them for you:

BruhItsOver9000 wrote: »

It's clearly a l2p issue. Before ic, we used rally for our heals, we were badass back then. Now we're weak because we rely on vigor to heal. Stop complaining.

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@Bigevilpeter
Man the carebearness is strong with you; as many pointed out it used to cost a lot more AP, frankly I wish it went back to that just to screw with people since I'm already a two time palatine (one on PC and one on console).

Vigor isn't essential for PvE content such as vMSA, I've done it without it on my stam character before simply because I forgot about it and didn't put skill points (my limited points) into it after I was experimenting. I'm a DK and Stam DK is suppose to be the hardest to complete vMSA on at-least from what I've heard so that's no excuse mate.

You know, I came to think about it like this: Somebody once put a slice of a lemon into his beer, another person saw this and not long after this everybody went on to say "You need a lemon to your Corona!" It's just an opinion, not the absolute truth...

The lemon in a corona is an Americanism. Countries around the world still do this but it's called liming, you run a lime around the rim of the bottle to sterilise it....you boys just took it on thinking it made it taste better. So depending on where you are it is true.

altemriel · August 2016

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Vigor one of them most essential skills for stamina characters in both pve and pve and pvers like me are forced to pvp for days just to get it for every single stamina character I have, I just join a group and watch alliance points slowly coming up I keep failing miserably and btw I have still yet to get alliance level 5 with any of my characters.

At least it should have been the first or second skill om the line, but 60k alliance points for just from 4-5 is insane.

I cant even Vmsa without Vigor please change this im not a pvper and probably never will be dont force me to play something i dont like

no offence, but it used to be on much higher assault level than it is now, I am a total noob in PVP and I die in one-two seconds most of the times when attacked in PVP, but I got it!!

you can do it too!!

Anti_Virus · August 2016

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

This thread is on page seven now and a vast majority of the posts are insulting the OP. I have yet to read a productive post which has expressed a good logical counter argument for why skills like Vigor should be PVP-locked and should not be accessible through gaining PVE experience.

If you look at the basis of the OP's argument, it's an argument that we should all support because it advocates for players to play the content we enjoy the most without having to drudge through content we don't enjoy, to get useful skills. If it helps people understand better, here is the same argument that the OP is using, rephrased:

*Skills which can be used in both PVE and PVP content should not be locked behind PVP-specific or PVE-specific experiences which force players to engage in content they do wish to play.*

That's a perfectly logical argument, which so far - through seven pages - has yet to be countered.

Most PVPers are "eliteist" and brash. Im a PVPer myself and I used to enjoy it way back pre 1.5. But now? Its terrible filled with lagg huge zergs and Fotm builds

Every stam build and there mom runs 5 hunding 1 kena 1 blood spawn 3 robust agility 2h and bow shuffle rolling builds

Or its malabeth unkillable tanks

Point is build diversity is down the drain, lagg and zergs makes cyrodil a bad place and I understand why people steer clear of PVP yet PVErs have to suffer doing PVP for the only reliable stamina heal in the game.

Kalante · August 2016

lol huge. I guess OP doesn't know when it took months and months to get vigor as opposed today were it only takes at most three days just casually pvp'n. People wanna call pvpr's toxic yet casual pver's are the biggest carebears in the game. They are the ones that got wgt nerfed and soon vMA.

Bigevilpeter · August 2016

The only counter argument i get is that it used to be longer, or why skip tedious things when we can waste so much time of our lives doing them.

I really don't get that kind of people and probably never will, I actually think people like you are the ones ruining the game.

laksikus · August 2016

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

The only counter argument i get is that it used to be longer, or why skip tedious things when we can waste so much time of our lives doing them.

I really don't get that kind of people and probably never will, I actually think people like you are the ones ruining the game.

there is a counter argument that it just takes a few hours of gaming to get vigor as PVE player.
For good players not even 1h

Bigevilpeter · August 2016

laksikus wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

The only counter argument i get is that it used to be longer, or why skip tedious things when we can waste so much time of our lives doing them.

I really don't get that kind of people and probably never will, I actually think people like you are the ones ruining the game.

there is a counter argument that it just takes a few hours of gaming to get vigor as PVE player.
For good players not even 1h

I did a lot more than 2 hours and still havent gotten it on 1 character, and I have 3 stamina characters.

And im not even talking about caltrops here

TheValkyn · August 2016

Park your character in a keep that is getting defense ticks... You can even get this AvAvA rank while afk lol.

sbam66 · August 2016

Wow.. Just wow.

MalakithAlamahdi · August 2016

Join a big group and you'll have it in 3 hours. Problem solved.

Kelces · August 2016

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

The lemon in a corona is an Americanism. Countries around the world still do this but it's called liming, you run a lime around the rim of the bottle to sterilise it....you boys just took it on thinking it made it taste better. So depending on where you are it is true.

Well, I don't drink any alcoholic beverages, forgive my ignorance there. My point however was simply to give an example of subjective views, that become irrefutable "truth", which is definitely not the case with the claim in the OP. Simple as that...

ScooberSteve · August 2016

Every class has healing abilities that can be utilized effectively with a stamina build. You cant just throw a little tantrum because you have to pvp for the best one. You dont like it go magika.

Cogo · August 2016

I am now selling Oghur Hatemachine's Deff tick AP services!

You only need to group with me and sit in a keep to get those Alliance war levels and Ranks!
Sit back and just watch the green Color of AP flowing, while you AFK!

20-40K AP per hour - 10K gold per hour or 50K for a full evening.

Gulkrim-mur · August 2016

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Vigor one of them most essential skills for stamina characters in both pve and pve and pvers like me are forced to pvp for days just to get it for every single stamina character I have, I just join a group and watch alliance points slowly coming up I keep failing miserably and btw I have still yet to get alliance level 5 with any of my characters.

At least it should have been the first or second skill om the line, but 60k alliance points for just from 4-5 is insane.

I cant even Vmsa without Vigor please change this im not a pvper and probably never will be dont force me to play something i dont like

Hey just sit back in no group and follow the team its better ap. If u have a resto staff or heal spell youll get ap for anyones kill that you hit a heal on.(doesnt need to be a party member)

Dont have that? No problem buy a fire ballista and sit behibd your team and rain on the enemy youll be a huge help away from the combat and youll get splash damage on the enemies. So if you or someone else kills them (doesnt even need to be a party member) you get ap.

Make sure you pick up bounty board and turn in as much as possible thats 1000ap each time and can be done i think 5 times a day.

Laslt the bigger the party the lower the ap, and wall repairs buy with gold for 90 coin. Each use gives you 50ap a fully broken wall start to finish can give you 1000 ap. Just dont buy them with ap cause youll lose they cost 300ap a piece and give you 50Ap a use. So if u dobt mind spending 90gold each repair to speed the process that will help too.

Leon119 · August 2016

How to get vigor fast.
Go to BWB
Find a keep under siege
Countersiege the enemies with a fire balista
Watch the AP rain down
Smack urself in the face for thinking vigor is hard to get

Burning_Talons · August 2016

grumlins wrote: »

People who play pvp are missing the point entirely.

OP is stating that there is a pvp barrier to this skill that people in pve basically call for by name when joining to run dungeons.

There is no PVE equivalent. It's the same for many another skill there are missing skills that should have a pve equivalent so that people have a choice as to what playstyle they wish to play.

All other arguments about time, difficulty, etc are irrelevant, MMOs that have multiple ways of getting similar skills for their respective play styles is the argument here and it's a valid one.

Bomb sorcerer for example, the skill in pvp that causes a timed explosion doesn't have a PVE equivalent and it's been a pain in the side of many a PVE only player for some time now. Why not form a skill line that has similar PVE replacements? What's the harm?

@grumlins Ahem lets take a look at every skill that requires PvEing to obtain shall we?
Meteor
Entropy
Magelight
Equilibrium
Rune
Dawnbreaker
Protective Circle
Silver Shards
Trap Beast
Camo Hunter
Soul Assault
6% Max RSS

Ohhh man look at that

Arthg · August 2016

I started PVP to get Vigor, and ended up loving Cyrodiil action more than PVE.

Who knows? This may have happened to other players, and perhaps it'll happen to you too...?

Shadesofkin · August 2016

Arthg wrote: »

I started PVP to get Vigor, and ended up loving Cyrodiil action more than PVE.

Who knows? This may have happened to other players, and perhaps it'll happen to you too...?

It had the exact opposite effect on me.

I'mma totes admit I'm a PVE Carebear Scrub 4 Lyfe.

I'm cool with it, even if I have to learn to deal without Vigor.

Unsent.Soul · August 2016

Shadesofkin wrote: »

Arthg wrote: »

I started PVP to get Vigor, and ended up loving Cyrodiil action more than PVE.

Who knows? This may have happened to other players, and perhaps it'll happen to you too...?

It had the exact opposite effect on me.

I'mma totes admit I'm a PVE Carebear Scrub 4 Lyfe.

I'm cool with it, even if I have to learn to deal without Vigor.

Players have been "dealing without vigor" since the games release. Don't make it seem like the world is against you.

Shadesofkin · August 2016

Unsent.Soul wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

Arthg wrote: »

I started PVP to get Vigor, and ended up loving Cyrodiil action more than PVE.

Who knows? This may have happened to other players, and perhaps it'll happen to you too...?

It had the exact opposite effect on me.

I'mma totes admit I'm a PVE Carebear Scrub 4 Lyfe.

I'm cool with it, even if I have to learn to deal without Vigor.

Players have been "dealing without vigor" since the games release. Don't make it seem like the world is against you.

I'm pretty sure I didn't make it seem that way. But TY for the tip homes.

Skitttles · August 2016

It takes longer to level up to Rally lol.

Anti_Virus · August 2016

Burning_Talons wrote: »

grumlins wrote: »

People who play pvp are missing the point entirely.

OP is stating that there is a pvp barrier to this skill that people in pve basically call for by name when joining to run dungeons.

There is no PVE equivalent. It's the same for many another skill there are missing skills that should have a pve equivalent so that people have a choice as to what playstyle they wish to play.

All other arguments about time, difficulty, etc are irrelevant, MMOs that have multiple ways of getting similar skills for their respective play styles is the argument here and it's a valid one.

Bomb sorcerer for example, the skill in pvp that causes a timed explosion doesn't have a PVE equivalent and it's been a pain in the side of many a PVE only player for some time now. Why not form a skill line that has similar PVE replacements? What's the harm?

@grumlins Ahem lets take a look at every skill that requires PvEing to obtain shall we?
Meteor
Entropy
Magelight
Equilibrium
Rune
Dawnbreaker
Protective Circle
Silver Shards
Trap Beast
Camo Hunter
Soul Assault
6% Max RSS

Ohhh man look at that

All mages guild skills can be earned with add ons like serously its not hard.

6% max stats aren't required to get kills in PVP however you need vigor to survive in both PVP and PVE comparing a healing skill that is needed for all stam builds to max stats is foolish

The only thing that you have right is grinding out FG skill line but even that can be done quickly compared to trying to compete with other pvpers when you don't have vigor.

DurzoBlint13 · August 2016

Arthg wrote: »

I started PVP to get Vigor, and ended up loving Cyrodiil action more than PVE.

Who knows? This may have happened to other players, and perhaps it'll happen to you too...?

same here. I hated PvP until I actually tried it for more than 10 mins. I unlocked Vigor a long time ago on my first character when it was a lot harder to get and by the time I had it I was in love with Cyrodil. Never know what you will enjoy unless you actually try it out. And Vigor now days is super easy to get. Got it on my stam-plar in less than 2 hours solo. Even if all you do is repair walls and get D-ticks, you could have it in maybe 4-5 hours without having to fight at all.
The grind to get undaunted passives on newer characters was MUCH longer....especially because it requires a group or luck in group finder

bertenburnyb16_ESO · August 2016

60k is hard to get? .... just LOL

Bdawwg · August 2016

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Burning_Talons wrote: »

grumlins wrote: »

People who play pvp are missing the point entirely.

OP is stating that there is a pvp barrier to this skill that people in pve basically call for by name when joining to run dungeons.

There is no PVE equivalent. It's the same for many another skill there are missing skills that should have a pve equivalent so that people have a choice as to what playstyle they wish to play.

All other arguments about time, difficulty, etc are irrelevant, MMOs that have multiple ways of getting similar skills for their respective play styles is the argument here and it's a valid one.

Bomb sorcerer for example, the skill in pvp that causes a timed explosion doesn't have a PVE equivalent and it's been a pain in the side of many a PVE only player for some time now. Why not form a skill line that has similar PVE replacements? What's the harm?

@grumlins Ahem lets take a look at every skill that requires PvEing to obtain shall we?
Meteor
Entropy
Magelight
Equilibrium
Rune
Dawnbreaker
Protective Circle
Silver Shards
Trap Beast
Camo Hunter
Soul Assault
6% Max RSS

Ohhh man look at that

All mages guild skills can be earned with add ons like serously its not hard.

6% max stats aren't required to get kills in PVP however you need vigor to survive in both PVP and PVP comparing a healing skill that is needed for all stam builds to max stats is foolish

The only thing that yoy have right is grinding out FG skill line but even that can be done quickly compared to trying to compete with other pvpers when you don't have vigor.

And what about those people who play on console with no addons. It takes a huge amount of time to get meteor in pve and then fighters guild and then undaunted. 3 skill lines that need to be maxed out v 1 skill line that needs to be half maxed.

Just to conclude 3 v 0.5 and the 0.5 are complaining. Classic