A Sorcerer's Perspective: Nerf Evasion.

Pinja · July 2016

Tool tips tell lie's,
20% a fool cries,
proc a frag & nothing dies,
just short a hi-***.

Nightblades confess to me;
Am I any test to thee?
You see me glow'
o will you roll?

If I wait,
To make it bait.
By the stars u will evade.

OH tumble.
free chest rumble?
now I mumble,
Ancestral silk.

What an ilk?
My shields built,
to not proc as u hammer away.

Now I stray,
as u lay away,
& place a curse.
Not to stop ur burst.

Purple with glee,
both you & me.
We see a chance,
to end this dance.

DODGE

My one main stun,
put to none.
Could I run,
No I done.

Mana no stamina,
Streak deplete,
Harness can't defeat feat.
Ambush, stam elite.
Running; can't defeat khaiit feet.

Well I week, trapping webs, gone.
Dawnbreaker a miss. Pop meteor once,
block it's a kiss. Pop invisible jump,
was that a miss?? Hold on going Afk now I' need to take a ***.

RebornV3x · July 2016

and good luck using force pulse or crush most players I hit just stand there and take it then murder me that Mag sorc life is tough man if only I could get my hands on a maelstrom greatsword I would go stam sorc.

acw37162 · July 2016

This is funny I watched a stream today where a Magica Sorc frustrated the F out of a stamina nightblade.

Evasion, cloak, fear, and Incap strike all the standard nightblade cheese couldn't kill him.

He eventually just left in frustration.

Dracane · July 2016

RebornV3x wrote: »

and good luck using force pulse or crush most players I hit just stand there and take it then murder me that Mag sorc life is tough man if only I could get my hands on a maelstrom greatsword I would go stam sorc.

It's hard, because all you have are projectiles. Easy to predict, easy to dodge and block and even when they hit, they don't deal compareable damage to anything else. Melee is the way to go in this game if you want to succeed in pvp. You can only win with luck as a ranged caster.

Pinja · July 2016

In seriousness though, Especially with all these additional set's expanding roll dodging & evasion there needs to be some counter added to the game that prevents stam class's from avoiding so much damage so easily...
-Magic sorcs especially, revolve around projectiles but all class in general get annoyed with a nightblades dodging abilitys.(cloke, rolldodge, shuffle.) Even nightblades can't spam poison injection on another nightblade.

-Eternal hunt & Morihaus sets allow for builds that kill pug zergs & annoy the experienced with constant roll dodging. Heck I heard AD's mass producing eternal hunt to make lethal roll dodging zergs.

These are 'interesting' play styles to add to the game... but like any they need counters. DOT's (which sorc's barely have) I've watched vigor & rally stalemate them as they temporarily flee to spam arrows. Curse? Would've pop'ed them out of stealth had they not freely buffed up & done it them self's with a stunning attack. Plainly said vigor + rally out does curse damage sorcs have too stack on top of it... You may say these are specific play styles but cipher streamed it now its meta, & magic is a dead 'noob' tree. From the guy who copied his build...

My suggestion add some sort of potion or glyph of precision which guarantee's hit chance by like 80% on all forms of evasion (incuding invisibility) making it in no way broken seeing how it still allows for block parring by all class the same style of fighting magic sorcs do. In addition to that someone must run it specifically for it to be viable, like shield-braker, thus sacrificing better stats, glyphs, or portions, to counter this growing nuisance.

Dracane · July 2016

Pinja wrote: »

In seriousness though, Especially with all these additional set's expanding roll dodging & evasion there needs to be some counter added to the game that prevents stam class's from avoiding so much damage so easily...
-Magic sorcs especially, revolve around projectiles but all class in general get annoyed with a nightblades dodging abilitys.(cloke, rolldodge, shuffle.) Even nightblades can't spam poison injection on another nightblade.

-Eternal hunt & Morihaus sets allow for builds that kill pug zergs & annoy the experienced with constant roll dodging. Heck I heard AD's mass producing eternal hunt to make lethal roll dodging zergs.

These are 'interesting' play styles to add to the game... but like any they need counters. DOT's (which sorc's barely have) I've watched vigor & rally stalemate them as they temporarily flee to spam arrows. Curse? Would've pop'ed them out of stealth had they not freely buffed up & done it them self's with a stunning attack. Plainly said vigor + rally out does curse damage sorcs have too stack on top of it... You may say these are specific play styles but cipher streamed it now its meta, & magic is a dead 'noob' tree. From the guy who copied his build...

My suggestion add some sort of potion or glyph of precision which guarantee's hit chance by like 80% on all forms of evasion (incuding invisibility) making it in no way broken seeing how it still allows for block parring by all class the same style of fighting magic sorcs do. In addition to that someone must run it specifically for it to be viable, like shield-braker, thus sacrificing better stats, glyphs, or portions, to counter this growing nuisance.

Spell crafting should bring us a precision spell. We cast it on a target and get a 100% chance to hit for 3 seconds or so.

Minalan · July 2016

@Wrobel left sorcs in a really s*** place. They think they got it right, which is hilarious.

They've no plans to fix this disaster. Else they would have in the last patch.

Don't expect a fix soon, just look at Magicka DK's...

Pinja · July 2016

Minalan wrote: »

@Wrobel left sorcs in a really s*** place. They think they got it right, which is hilarious.

They've no plans to fix this disaster. Else they would have in the last patch.

Don't expect a fix soon, just look at Magicka DK's...

Already made one lvl 37 & counting with proxy det unlocked. But i'm trying destro & discovering the same problem hear there just that it handles a little better.

Ch4mpTW · July 2016

Minalan wrote: »

@Wrobel left sorcs in a really s*** place. They think they got it right, which is hilarious.

They've no plans to fix this disaster. Else they would have in the last patch.

Don't expect a fix soon, just look at Magicka DK's...

Agreed. And what's most disturbing is that we (as a community) told him as well as the other members of the combat and class dev teams that they're going too far. And naturally, he didn't even listen. Then went on ESO Live, and refused to acknowledge the tons of people asking questions about his radical decisions.

We know he likes stamina builds, but he honestly went way too far. Way too far. And with the tons of ridiculous stamina sets out there, and changes to things that benefit to stamina compared to magicka? Things are more unbalanced than they've ever been. Just look at the Fighter's Guild line, and compare it to the Mage's Guild line. Look at the benefits stamina gets compared to magicka. It's pretty much The Elder Stamina Online.

Autolycus · July 2016

ScruffyWhiskers · July 2016

Dracane wrote: »

It's hard, because all you have are projectiles. Easy to predict, easy to dodge and block and even when they hit, they don't deal compareable damage to anything else. Melee is the way to go in this game if you want to succeed in pvp. You can only win with luck as a ranged caster.

I agree ranged is frustrating a lot of times and melee is more effective..... when it hits. If the lag gets more than 250ms though ranged is a lot better.

Pinja · July 2016

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

It's hard, because all you have are projectiles. Easy to predict, easy to dodge and block and even when they hit, they don't deal compareable damage to anything else. Melee is the way to go in this game if you want to succeed in pvp. You can only win with luck as a ranged caster.

I agree ranged is frustrating a lot of times and melee is more effective..... when it hits. If the lag gets more than 250ms though ranged is a lot better.

So on PC abusing the the dark strains of the universe (server lag) may be more effective for range but it doesn't change that stam ranged DPS (Bow abilitys) out do ours in range & effectiveness with all the weapon damage set bonuses out there that make evens its basic attack broken. Poison sets that proc on all weapon abilitys, shield brakers, & when in comes to desync (lag delay) on console nothing beats bow abilitys.
----That I heard got fixed after imperial city... Lies!!!!
"Hey where's my magica, where's stamina, Where's my Health!!! Recap 8s' worth of bow attacks (based on tool tip cast)." & thats novice pug kill time.
Also on console server lag works for every one like lag switches. So melee can do it up on hardly moving sorc targets to give them literal instant death without warning.
Screen freezes you get the cc warning to let u know your dead; you get some guys character to teleport around you to let you know how the last ten second unfolded. After that the root brakes & your free to walk around & do nothing until u keel over or crash... Usually the latter.

Ex: A Templar used a seven move combo on me from full-invisibility. It may not have even been lag because I heard the sounds live & when I died in proper time to the sound of the last ability, In reviled him over my body with some form of clocke passive. So It could just be another abuseble glitch...

Forestd16b14_ESO · July 2016

First off [Snip] stamina [Snip] isnt op magicka just got balanced. Second yes evasion needs toned down but what about he al mighty damage shield ? Despite being 6 secinds which magicka users love to complain about they are still extreamly powerful. Thrid ni duh @Wrobel doesnt listen look at wraith and blocking changes. Despite all the threads on TG and DB pts about these changes he still went and did them.

ZoS just needs to hire a new guy

[Edited for Bait]

Autolycus · July 2016

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

First off [Snip] stamina [Snip] isnt op magicka just got balanced. Second yes evasion needs toned down but what about he al mighty damage shield ? Despite being 6 secinds which magicka users love to complain about they are still extreamly powerful. Thrid ni duh @Wrobel doesnt listen look at wraith and blocking changes. Despite all the threads on TG and DB pts about these changes he still went and did them.

ZoS just needs to hire a new guy

You are just as guilty as anyone else of complaining relentlessly about the same thing over, and over, and over.

And it's called Wrath. One would think someone who prides oneself so much on heavy armor that you'd be able to spell the damn passive correctly.

lucky_Sage · July 2016

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

First off [Snip] stamina [Snip] isnt op magicka just got balanced. Second yes evasion needs toned down but what about he al mighty damage shield ? Despite being 6 secinds which magicka users love to complain about they are still extreamly powerful. Thrid ni duh @Wrobel doesnt listen look at wraith and blocking changes. Despite all the threads on TG and DB pts about these changes he still went and did them.

ZoS just needs to hire a new guy

if magicka got balanced why does stam out preform magicka with damage and self healing and survivability

Minalan · July 2016

lucky_Sage wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

First off shut up about stamina already it isnt op magicka just got balanced. Second yes evasion needs toned down but what about he al mighty damage shield ? Despite being 6 secinds which magicka users love to complain about they are still extreamly powerful. Thrid ni duh @Wrobel doesnt listen look at wraith and blocking changes. Despite all the threads on TG and DB pts about these changes he still went and did them.

ZoS just needs to hire a new guy

if magicka got balanced why does stam out preform magicka with damage and self healing and survivability

Because by 'balanced' he means a meat-fisted heavy handed adjustment made in bad faith by a halfwit designer (@Wrobel).

Vangy · July 2016

Pinja wrote: »

Tool tips tell lie's,
20% a fool cries,
proc a frag & nothing dies,
just short a hi-***.

Nightblades confess to me;
Am I any test to thee?
You see me glow'
o will you roll?

If I wait,
To make it bait.
By the stars u will evade.

OH tumble.
free chest rumble?
now I mumble,
Ancestral silk.

What an ilk?
My shields built,
to not proc as u hammer away.

Now I stray,
as u lay away,
& place a curse.
Not to stop ur burst.

Purple with glee,
both you & me.
We see a chance,
to end this dance.

DODGE

My one main stun,
put to none.
Could I run,
No I done.

Mana no stamina,
Streak deplete,
Harness can't defeat feat.
Ambush, stam elite.
Running; can't defeat khaiit feet.

Well I week, trapping webs, gone.
Dawnbreaker a miss. Pop meteor once,
block it's a kiss. Pop invisible jump,
was that a miss?? Hold on going Afk now I' need to take a ***.

Had a blast reading this. You really put a lot of thought into it. GJ. I applaud your creativity and mastery of wordplay.
But no. No nerf evasion preeezeeee.

Dracane · July 2016

Doncellius wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

First off shut up about stamina already it isnt op magicka just got balanced. Second yes evasion needs toned down but what about he al mighty damage shield ? Despite being 6 secinds which magicka users love to complain about they are still extreamly powerful. Thrid ni duh @Wrobel doesnt listen look at wraith and blocking changes. Despite all the threads on TG and DB pts about these changes he still went and did them.

ZoS just needs to hire a new guy

Getting so aggresive. Just wow. Why do more than half your posts sound like you're personally offended? LOL

Few people on the forums are as openly biased (terrible at deciding anythinh balance-related) than you are. Sort of an achievement in a way

He always protects stamina and claims, that it's underpowered compared to magicka or that there is some kind of balance (there obviously is no balance)

I am biased as well and like everyone else, I believe that I am right. Stamina is overperforming/Magicka underperforming.
I think, Magicka needs buffs. And these buffs need to begin with light armor and destruction staff.

lucky_Sage · July 2016

Minalan wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

First off shut up about stamina already it isnt op magicka just got balanced. Second yes evasion needs toned down but what about he al mighty damage shield ? Despite being 6 secinds which magicka users love to complain about they are still extreamly powerful. Thrid ni duh @Wrobel doesnt listen look at wraith and blocking changes. Despite all the threads on TG and DB pts about these changes he still went and did them.

ZoS just needs to hire a new guy

if magicka got balanced why does stam out preform magicka with damage and self healing and survivability

Because by 'balanced' he means a meat-fisted heavy handed adjustment made in bad faith by a halfwit designer (@Wrobel).

I don't think its just Wrobel I think he needs help they need to hire another to help him
magicka needs better sets that compete with the ones stam has. stam can get a lot higher stats than magicka can
champion points should be fully remade

Pinja · July 2016

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

]First off [Snip] stamina [Snip] isnt op magicka just got balanced. Second yes evasion needs toned down but what about he al mighty damage shield ? Despite being 6 secinds which magicka users love to complain about they are still extreamly powerful. Thrid ni duh @Wrobel doesnt listen look at wraith and blocking changes. Despite all the threads on TG and DB pts about these changes he still went and did them.

ZoS just needs to hire a new guy

Yes evasion needs to be toned down a bit. Yes my shields still work, but for younger scorer's or non-min maxer (fun creative builds) they probably need 10s.
Inaddion to the problems of magica maxing scorers who need to last for 15 min because all they can do is...

acw37162 wrote: »

This is funny I watched a stream today where a Magica Sorc frustrated the F out of a stamina nightblade.

Evasion, cloak, fear, and Incap strike all the standard nightblade cheese couldn't kill him.

He eventually just left in frustration.

hoping that their opponent will spare them,
Dispite having a Fully Maxed Sorc Build.
Which is stupid & frustrating for everyone that this is all they can do... For a whole fifteen minutes.

& yes @Wrobel needs to assign some new assistants, open his games experiences, & stop letting his private testing teams throw matches as Night blades. Because there's no way he shouldn't know their overpowered in PVP...

Pinja · July 2016

lucky_Sage wrote: »

I don't think its just @Wrobel I think he needs help they need to hire another to help him
magicka needs better sets that compete with the ones stam has. stam can get a lot higher stats than magicka can
champion points should be fully remade

C Thats a thing in doing complete reworks there's a High likely hood that you brake the game & aggravate alot of people... By adding things to the game you may introduce a nuisance but you shouldn't brake it. The thing is as long as there's an effectively built in counter to whatever it is its alright. In doing so each build gives a manner of consent between players that make all aspects of gameplay effective & ineffective in their own way. The thing is
-there is no current effective counter to evasion which is why stam is now so over played.

Back when magic sorcs were good, players were willing to consent to fully maxing out & getting wrecked by a Nightblades cheese (dang wood-elfs). Then the nerf's & counters came. Now all stam class are too (templars least, Nightblades greatest.) overpowered & unrivaled by magic. Which is why I suggested earlier (#Comment_3209972 ie:#5) add a counter to all forms of evasion, such as a potion of precision, that prevents you from reaching max potential with a class by running it, to suffice your lust for revenge against a particular play style (Ex: shieldbraker).
Leaving players to have to choose to deal with the debunk of a playstyle/class for maximum output with it.

twistedmonk · July 2016

A purge would be nice addition to remove buffs from players.

But why does everybody complain about magic templars then. Magic sorcs have received numerous nerfs to the point they are clearly outclassed by any stamina build.

I also find it amusing to come to forums and see great suggestions from players largely ignored. More often than not the players, who play this game way more than the developers, are right. But I see that arrogant look on developers that they know better.

Pinja · July 2016

twistedmonk wrote: »

A purge would be nice addition to remove buffs from players.

But why does everybody complain about magic templars then. Magic sorcs have received numerous nerfs to the point they are clearly outclassed by any stamina build.

I also find it amusing to come to forums and see great suggestions from players largely ignored. More often than not the players, who play this game way more than the developers, are right. But I see that arrogant look on developers that they know better.

...Maybe I'm interpreting this wrong but there's one on the support tree... Conveniently enough its called purge. Just go into pvp & get it. Takes like to 20 mins to unlock if you find a good group.

Ya man, magic Templar are fine, just that radiant procs damage ticks extremely fast without warning under 50%. Maybe it would be an effective counter to stam if it wasn't just an execute and didn't brake disorient you. As well as brake if your opponent is smart enough to take a potty brake behind a tree or hill. Same thing with soul assault which then wastes the ultimate. As sorc you guys are the easiest thing for me to kill & even then its a fair fight with jabs. Also as a sorc I don't have that which is why Half a million stam players complain about you guys more then us.

ZOS_JohanaB · July 2016

We've gone through the thread and cleaned it up a bit. Just a reminder that while baiting is not acceptable neither is flaming. We know it's hard, but do not take the bait as doing so could lead to you to breaking the Community Rules. Please review them here.

Minalan · July 2016

ZOS_JohanaB wrote: »

We've gone through the thread and cleaned it up a bit. Just a reminder that while baiting is not acceptable neither is flaming. We know it's hard, but do not take the bait as doing so could lead to you to breaking the Community Rules. Please review them here.

Your design team is doing a terrible job. Can you please drop a note on @Wrobel desk?

Malubeth broken
Magicka sorcs suck
Fix the game

Moderation is the only ZOS attention we get anymore and it's irritating.

Some_Guy · July 2016

Attention: Evasion will not be nerfed.
That is all.

twistedmonk · July 2016

Pinja wrote: »

twistedmonk wrote: »

A purge would be nice addition to remove buffs from players.

...Maybe I'm interpreting this wrong but there's one on the support tree... Conveniently enough its called purge. Just go into pvp & get it. Takes like to 20 mins to unlock if you find a good group.

I am talking about a spell the strips buffs from other players. So a spell that would strip things like shuffle or hots from other people. Things like food buffs and sorc wards would be immune though. Could add more strategy to the game. Sorry for confusion.

But honestly, I don't know if it has a place in this game since you only have 10 hotkeys.

Pinja · July 2016

twistedmonk wrote: »

Pinja wrote: »

twistedmonk wrote: »

A purge would be nice addition to remove buffs from players.

...Maybe I'm interpreting this wrong but there's one on the support tree... Conveniently enough its called purge. Just go into pvp & get it. Takes like to 20 mins to unlock if you find a good group.

I am talking about a spell the strips buffs from other players. So a spell that would strip things like shuffle or hots from other people. Things like food buffs and sorc wards would be immune though. Could add more strategy to the game. Sorry for confusion.

But honestly, I don't know if it has a place in this game since you only have 10 hotkeys.

Ya that would work. So like a morph of curse that would work like an actual curse & simply suppress all positive player effects besides food. That way you could purify it & get all your buffs back resuming from their last duration. Maybe even a befoul move for sorcs to counter healing via vigor/momentum combos besides running a disease glyph which I'm not even shore works.
Tho the reason why I keep saying curse is because its still doesn't change that we can barely hit them.
Fighting in this is not like other semi skill based where you can say, "you can't hit me your aim sucks." Its just because of the way the game is now you just literally can't hit them...

Cronopoly · July 2016

Pinja wrote: »

Fighting in this is not like other semi skill based where you can say, "you can't hit me your aim sucks." Its just because of the way the game is now you just literally can't hit them...

PVP:
True, I'd feel better about a hitbox based mechanic where if i missed "Yeah I just skillwise Suck". Instead stam enemies get 100% hit immunity no matter your aim at all.

I checked my Stamina Nightblade an hour ago in Cyrodil. And decided to just dodge roll repeatedly until I ran out of Stamina. I got 8 dodgerolls in a row. Prior to having to pop a Stamina Pot. If I spaced out my Dodge Rolls to a couple seconds I could near Perma dodge with the occasional Stam Pot.

Also in Seige at Sej, I'd routinely take damage by Seige, but had not a care in the world, Insta Rally, Insta Vigor, roll Dodge and move on....
OT: Yes Sej, where else would AD get farmed on the daily Postern standoff...<<<Yes I'm AD

Again, I don't necessarily want Evasion Nerfed in and of itself. I want magicka classes to have some sort of Accuracy Buff to COMPETE. Most of us are hitting Nothing at Range which is the ENTIRE balance narrative. When we do hit with Dots its laughable as Rally /Vigor just nullify the damage.

Yet if we dodge-roll that Gap Closer once typically we are done. Straight into defensiveness 100% sheild and healing for what little that will do with Heal debuffs and massive burst we are seeing.

Sitting ducks as no stamina = dead magicka class. Streak pfft, gets Gap Closed most of the time unless you fully run away beforehand like a coward. I'll say one thing, I see Magicka sorcs keep trying to figure a solution while not giving up max magicka (which scales your shield...) Though no good solution has come up yet.

Right now there's no counter to the Percentage of Evade a person has.
Other mechanics have counters that are guaged player vs player:
Physical Resistance - Physical Penetration
Spell Resistance - Spell Penetration
Crit Resistance - Crit Chance
Dodge/Evade - Free Willy No counter

Stam classes are way better suited to avoid damage at any range should they choose to take atvantage of this mechanic. almost crazy not to.

lucky_Sage · July 2016

Pinja wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

I don't think its just @Wrobel I think he needs help they need to hire another to help him
magicka needs better sets that compete with the ones stam has. stam can get a lot higher stats than magicka can
champion points should be fully remade

C Thats a thing in doing complete reworks there's a High likely hood that you brake the game & aggravate alot of people... By adding things to the game you may introduce a nuisance but you shouldn't brake it. The thing is as long as there's an effectively built in counter to whatever it is its alright. In doing so each build gives a manner of consent between players that make all aspects of gameplay effective & ineffective in their own way. The thing is
-there is no current effective counter to evasion which is why stam is now so over played.

Back when magic sorcs were good, players were willing to consent to fully maxing out & getting wrecked by a Nightblades cheese (dang wood-elfs). Then the nerf's & counters came. Now all stam class are too (templars least, Nightblades greatest.) overpowered & unrivaled by magic. Which is why I suggested earlier (#Comment_3209972 ie:#5) add a counter to all forms of evasion, such as a potion of precision, that prevents you from reaching max potential with a class by running it, to suffice your lust for revenge against a particular play style (Ex: shieldbraker).
Leaving players to have to choose to deal with the debunk of a playstyle/class for maximum output with it.

my issue with cp is that player do to much damage and have high regen at same time you can ignore all vet dungeon mechanics

Pinja · July 2016

Cronopoly wrote: »

Pinja wrote: »

Fighting in this is not like other semi skill based where you can say, "you can't hit me your aim sucks." Its just because of the way the game is now you just literally can't hit them...

PVP:
True, I'd feel better about a hitbox based mechanic where if i missed "Yeah I just skillwise Suck". Instead stam enemies get 100% hit immunity no matter your aim at all.

I checked my Stamina Nightblade an hour ago in Cyrodil. And decided to just dodge roll repeatedly until I ran out of Stamina. I got 8 dodgerolls in a row. Prior to having to pop a Stamina Pot. If I spaced out my Dodge Rolls to a couple seconds I could near Perma dodge with the occasional Stam Pot.

Also in Seige at Sej, I'd routinely take damage by Seige, but had not a care in the world, Insta Rally, Insta Vigor, roll Dodge and move on....
OT: Yes Sej, where else would AD get farmed on the daily Postern standoff...<<<Yes I'm AD

Again, I don't necessarily want Evasion Nerfed in and of itself. I want magicka classes to have some sort of Accuracy Buff to COMPETE. Most of us are hitting Nothing at Range which is the ENTIRE balance narrative. When we do hit with Dots its laughable as Rally /Vigor just nullify the damage.

Yet if we dodge-roll that Gap Closer once typically we are done. Straight into defensiveness 100% sheild and healing for what little that will do with Heal debuffs and massive burst we are seeing.

Sitting ducks as no stamina = dead magicka class. Streak pfft, gets Gap Closed most of the time unless you fully run away beforehand like a coward. I'll say one thing, I see Magicka sorcs keep trying to figure a solution while not giving up max magicka (which scales your shield...) Though no good solution has come up yet.

Right now there's no counter to the Percentage of Evade a person has.
Other mechanics have counters that are guaged player vs player:
Physical Resistance - Physical Penetration
Spell Resistance - Spell Penetration
Crit Resistance - Crit Chance
Dodge/Evade - Free Willy No counter Stam classes are way better suited to avoid damage at any range should they choose to take atvantage of this mechanic. almost crazy not to.

Alright thus far this discussion has been keen to purpose & quite good with consensus. With the above quotation practically a paraphrasing of my argument with additional explanation. Even from those I've been hearing to be avid stam supporters @Forestd16b14_ESO those who have been willing to make an argument haven't been rejecting anything to much of my proposition. Tho sadly not all of the forum community have been willing to read as far into the argument as others. With the start to the post shielding away many hot headed stam players that may be to quick to look away or defend their gameplay before they consider other playstyles & realize the issue/proposition at hand.
Thank you to all those who contributed to the post with a manner of levelheadedness, but soon, to be fair to the debate, i'm probably going to translate some of these ideas onto a new more direct thread. (That may hopefully not be closed for being a continuation of this one?)
If you still wish to post here go ahead & may all our words be translated into something fruitful here or elsewhere.