Suggestion topic for lockboxes and expanding the ways of thievery in One Tamriel

Tipsy · July 2016

So I finally got into plundering some lockboxes when suddenly this thief shows up ,who probably has a way higher legerdemain level than me cause he instant opens all the lockboxes in the area,ruining my fun.
I tried to relog in the hope i'd log in on a different phase or something but no luck.
At such times I wish I could just stab the player who invades my spot in the back while he's looting the lockboxes .
Or just let us us blow their cover if they have absolutely no etiquette
In the wilderness khajit would settle this claw to claw,but in these times of conflict I can't even hit the invader with my paw

For now i'll copy/paste a few components which I hope to integrate into a solid fleshed out concept

It might be better if lockboxes have a level range instead of the players split into level ranges,
If a player who far exceeds the level of a lockboxes loots it,it will not disappear for new players.
(first I wanted to suggest that they stop spawning for players far exceeding the lockbox level but I think the other is better?)

Or what if the advanced thieves have a chance to drop a tool kit for newer players with their hasty manners?
They might contain some poison or drugs to drug the patrolling NPCs with.

With the addition of the mode "no honor among thieves"
(Where several thieves compete the dirty way ,blowing each other's cover,blackjacking the other thief,not following the thieves code and risking temporary expulsion from the thieves guild)
There could be bidding competitions,a guessing game which players can enter for 100 gold.
Where they have to guess how many thieves will be temporary expelled during a certain period of time.
Whichever player's guess was closest to the actual expelled amount of thieves,wins the jackpot of that time period.

maybe there could be different bidding competitions for thieves guild in different regions.
The one of the higher level regions might have higher entry fee?

idk · July 2016

[Snip]
2. Whoever gets to the lockbox first gets it.
3. If we could call the guards on other players it's going to happen to you also.

I recall a player going after an enchanting node. I was there first and the other played went through mobs to try to get their first. Got their agro so would not have permitted harvesting anyhow and cursed to me for taking her node. I laughed.

Best to relax.

[Edited for Inappropriate Content]

Tipsy · July 2016

[SNIP]
The thing is I was there first.It was my spot.
Khajit normally settles this with a territorial fight.
In competition it is not logical if the other is untouchable;if someone gets in your way,you wouldn't just stand there and take it would you?

I believe new players deserve as much chance;they are at a disadvantage because they can't instantly open all lockboxes in an area like a player who has legerdemain maxed out
It ruins it for new thieflings..
knowing this "whoever gets to the lockbox first" is not a level playing field;not everyone has the same chance of succeeding you see.

I wouldn't care if other players were able to call guards on me.Whoever ignores other players like this while ruining their fun deserves to be burned at the stake
Infact it would improve social interaction as you have to come to an agreement with other players
"you stick to that area and I'll stick to this one,if you cant agree to this I'll tip the npcs yo are stealing from so you'll get your bounty meter up"

[Edited for Inappropriate Content]

Nestor · July 2016

Lockboxes have a fairly quick respawn rate, just wait.

Or, level your legerdemain and you can open them quickly too.

mattgproctorb14_ESO · July 2016

Legerdemain makes locks open quicker? I had no idea. Lock boxes don't seem any more difficult from my high legerdemain toon to the ones that only open them when I happen to come across them and it looks feasible to do it. Are we talking about the force lock option? Maybe I should actually pay attention to that, I've never even bothered to use it. Is that how high Legerdemain helps? Or is there something else I don't know about?

Zerok · July 2016

mattgproctorb14_ESO wrote: »

Legerdemain makes locks open quicker? I had no idea. Lock boxes don't seem any more difficult from my high legerdemain toon to the ones that only open them when I happen to come across them and it looks feasible to do it. Are we talking about the force lock option? Maybe I should actually pay attention to that, I've never even bothered to use it. Is that how high Legerdemain helps? Or is there something else I don't know about?

Yes, force lock makes it instantaneous. But you lose the lockpick.

Nestor · July 2016

mattgproctorb14_ESO wrote: »

Legerdemain makes locks open quicker? I had no idea. Lock boxes don't seem any more difficult from my high legerdemain toon to the ones that only open them when I happen to come across them and it looks feasible to do it. Are we talking about the force lock option? Maybe I should actually pay attention to that, I've never even bothered to use it. Is that how high Legerdemain helps? Or is there something else I don't know about?

@mattgproctorb14_ESO

There is a passive in Legerdemain that increases the chance to successfully force a lock. At the 4th level, you can basically force any lock in the game and never need to pick. Note, while it will increment your counters for various Achievements, you do not get the Experience you usually get with opening chests and lockboxes. Also, a failed attempt will use up a lock pick (and, side note, the game uses up your stolen ones before it uses the laundered ones)

I have noticed lately I am using up a some more lockpicks to do this, so they might have fiddled with this.

Also, once you start forcing locks often, you will be amazed at how quickly you lose your lock picking touch.....

Tipsy · July 2016

He either had his legerdemain maxed out or was a hacker

Its indeed about the "locksmith" passive that allows you to force the locks without having to do the mini lockpicking game to unlock a chest.
Locksmith requires legerdemain rank 5 and gives only 10% chance to instantly force the lock
While a player with maxed out legerdemain(rank 19) gives a 70% chance to instantly unlock the lockbox.

That is not a level playing field where everyone has a same chance of succeeding.
It ruines it for the newer players
And in this case I shudder to think about all alliance players playing together soon,the problem might magnify
where players who still have to do the lockpicking manually will need to get sloppy,while all the maxed out players will just grab them from under their nose.
Its because it doesn't provide a level playing field that it is a problem.

Nestor wrote: »

Lockboxes have a fairly quick respawn rate, just wait.

Or, level your legerdemain and you can open them quickly too.

yea they have a quick respawn rate,but the other player instant loots everything and keeps running circles.
and as a new thief,you get all the bounty added because you have to try to beat the other player to the lockboxes,but your chances of succeeding are smaller.
Since they are able to indirectly increase your bounty meter because you have to get sloppy with less thieving skills to compete,it would only be normal if newer thieves could blow their cover.
Its at times like this I miss pvp in the rest of the game,at least then you'd have something to stand up to a player that gets in your way like that

If I level legerdemain I'll probably be quick at opening them too,but that doesn't take away that I'll still ruin it for newer thieves.

Tipsy · July 2016

So original HA...learn to play issue you could say if ther was an equal playing field but here there isn't.
as the maxed out player are just quicker when they have a higher rank unlocked
If there was a same level of playing field i'd agree ,but there isn't.
And since they can instant loot them and run for the next it forces the lower rank player to get sloppy
So its not worth the try to compete because they'll just make your bounty meter go up

Acrolas · July 2016

This is why we need a larger in-game ignore list.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · July 2016

I think I would like an option to call the cops. While it would be horrible and broken. It would also be fun to see the giant tools running around in pve since they claim trolling and griefing is only a pvp thing.

Rohamad_Ali · July 2016

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

I think I would like an option to call the cops. While it would be horrible and broken. It would also be fun to see the giant tools running around in pve since they claim trolling and griefing is only a pvp thing.

You dirt rat . Sending this to the Thieves Guild for review .

UltimaJoe777 · July 2016

As long as you get to the safebox first it doesn't matter how it gets opened as long as you can open it before time runs out. You just need to respond quicker is all.

idk · July 2016

Tipsy wrote: »

"
The thing is I was there first.It was my spot.
Khajit normally settles this with a territorial fight.
In competition it is not logical if the other is untouchable;if someone gets in your way,you wouldn't just stand there and take it would you?

I believe new players deserve as much chance;they are at a disadvantage because they can't instantly open all lockboxes in an area like a player who has legerdemain maxed out
It ruins it for new thieflings..
knowing this "whoever gets to the lockbox first" is not a level playing field;not everyone has the same chance of succeeding you see.

I wouldn't care if other players were able to call guards on me.Whoever ignores other players like this while ruining their fun deserves to be burned at the stake
Infact it would improve social interaction as you have to come to an agreement with other players
"you stick to that area and I'll stick to this one,if you cant agree to this I'll tip the npcs yo are stealing from so you'll get your bounty meter up"

Sorry, but if you were there first you would have first crack at opening it unless you hesitated.

If you were there first and did not get it open before the timer ran out the games design is to permit another a chance at opening it since you have a timeout for a few seconds.

Either way it is fair game.

bryanhaas · July 2016

Tipsy wrote: »

So I finally got into plundering some lockboxes when suddenly this asian player thief shows up ,who probably has a way higher legerdemain level than me cause he instant opens all the lockboxes in the area,ruining my fun.
I tried to relog in the hope i'd log in on a different phase or something but no luck.
At such times I wish I could just stab the player who invades my spot in the back while he's looting the lockboxes .
Or just let us us blow their cover if they have absolutely no etiquette
In the wilderness khajit would settle this claw to claw,but in these times of conflict I can't even hit the invader with my paw

Here'es an idea grind your legerdemain easiest way is complete thieves guild and get the traveling fence much easier to grind it up then you can start forcing locks.

[Edited for Inappropriate Content]

daemonios · July 2016

Tipsy wrote: »

So I finally got into plundering some lockboxes when suddenly this asian player thief shows up ,who probably has a way higher legerdemain level than me cause he instant opens all the lockboxes in the area,ruining my fun.
I tried to relog in the hope i'd log in on a different phase or something but no luck.
At such times I wish I could just stab the player who invades my spot in the back while he's looting the lockboxes .
Or just let us us blow their cover if they have absolutely no etiquette
In the wilderness khajit would settle this claw to claw,but in these times of conflict I can't even hit the invader with my paw

There is no "my safebox". And you don't know how force lock works, apparently (the success rate varies depending on the lock strength).

jedtb16_ESO · July 2016

Tipsy wrote: »

So I finally got into plundering some lockboxes when suddenly this asian player thief shows up ,who probably has a way higher legerdemain level than me cause he instant opens all the lockboxes in the area,ruining my fun.
I tried to relog in the hope i'd log in on a different phase or something but no luck.
At such times I wish I could just stab the player who invades my spot in the back while he's looting the lockboxes .
Or just let us us blow their cover if they have absolutely no etiquette
In the wilderness khajit would settle this claw to claw,but in these times of conflict I can't even hit the invader with my paw

not your boxes until you open them...

it;s an mmo - no spot belongs to anyone though if i arrive in a location say with a treasure chest and there is another player there battling a mob i will await the outcome - if the other player survives i will not attempt to take the chest.

Tipsy · July 2016

well i guess i could have seen LFg comments coming,But if you say that then you don't see the issue.
Since there isn't an equal playing field between the ranks,its like the person on the motorcycle telling the cycler "where have you learned to drive ,you're such a snail?"
Or the one on the motorcycle telling the cycler "to win the race you just have to be quicker"
I hope you can see why the cyclers wouldn't have the same chance as the one on the motorcycle to win the race.
Ofcourse I could get on a motorcycle and be just as fast,but the cycler would always be at a disadvantage in a race.

[SNIP]

[Edited for Inappropriate Content]

Tipsy · July 2016

Acrolas wrote: »

This is why we need a larger in-game ignore list.

I'd like to phase them out ,but that is perhaps an asocial solution

Maybe they could make it so that a percentage of the lockboxes in one area work like the dungeon chests now where everyone can loot them once?

Hallothiel · July 2016

If you got to the box first you will have the opportunity to open it -as people have pointed out above - someone can't just push you aside once you've started.

Hallothiel · July 2016

Tipsy wrote: »

well i guess i could have seen LFg comments coming,But if you say that then you don't see the issue.
Since there isn't an equal playing field between the ranks,its like the person on the motorcycle telling the cycler "where have you learned to drive ,you're such a snail?"
Or the one on the motorcycle telling the cycler "to win the race you just have to be quicker"
I hope you can see why the cyclers wouldn't have the same chance as the one on the motorcycle to win the race.
Ofcourse I could get on a motorcycle and be just as fast,but the cycler would always be at a disadvantage in a race.

It's a skill line that you get better at the more you do it, so no, it's not a level playing field. Why on earth should it be?!

WTF is the matter with people wanting everything in this game to be instant & easy?! Aarrrggghhh.

Tipsy · July 2016

Hallothiel wrote: »

If you got to the box first you will have the opportunity to open it .

thats again like the motorcycler telling the cycler "you just have to be faster to win the race"
A maxed out thief can loot many lockboxes while the one with lower chances to instant loot pehaps has to try multiple times

Also as a new thief you can forget it.as its no longer lucrative if another high rank thief shows up and keeps lurking in the area.
Moving on is the best thing to do..I fear this might get problematic in One Tamriel though.
As the high rank can loot like 5 lockboxes while you attempt to lockpick one.Or also try to instant loot and fail several times due to your smaller success chance.

It needs to be playing field because everyone deserves the same chances.

Hallothiel · July 2016

Being maxed out in legedermain doesn't increase your ability to run!

Where were they doing this? In most markets its hard to open all lockboxes without being caught even if just smashing them open.

Tipsy · July 2016

well guess i couldn't complain since I earned 30k doing lockboxes today.

Actually forgot to mention runspeed.That gives the player at the cap even more advantage vs a new player.
I hope when one Tamriel releases.New players will still get the chance to plunder a market & level legedermain

STEVIL · July 2016

Ignoring the variety of racial stuff going on here - just a few quick points (some already said but just to reinforce):

it doesn't matter who is where as far as looting chests or lockboxes etc - the person who gets it unlocked gets the loot. once it is started, it is held until your timer runs out then you are locked out for a sec to let other get a chance. This is all deliberate design. It sets the terms of the chase, so to speak.

If the other person gets better at something and does it quicker, they have an advantage whether that is by in-game trait or just player aptitude.

Any formalized "sick the guard on someone" is just another form of the dead and gone PVP justice thing, which would allow folks who had a desire to mess with other players a mechanical way to do so . Its a very very bad idea. One i am sure would appeal to the frustrated PVP_Justice Hunter-weannabes fans but not in practice to many others, IMO.

All IMO YMMV

daemonios · July 2016

Tipsy wrote: »

well guess i couldn't complain since I earned 30k doing lockboxes today.

Actually forgot to mention runspeed.That gives the player at the cap even more advantage vs a new player.
I hope when one Tamriel releases.New players will still get the chance to plunder a market & level legedermain

You can get speed boost from potions, gear and skills. No "cap" needed. Also to get 30k, even assuming you're only selling greens or better, means you got a few hundred boxes. What's your issue exactly?

Junipus · July 2016

Tipsy wrote: »

So I finally got into plundering some lockboxes when suddenly this asian player thief shows up ,who probably has a way higher legerdemain level than me cause he instant opens all the lockboxes in the area,ruining my fun.
I tried to relog in the hope i'd log in on a different phase or something but no luck.
At such times I wish I could just stab the player who invades my spot in the back while he's looting the lockboxes .
Or just let us us blow their cover if they have absolutely no etiquette
In the wilderness khajit would settle this claw to claw,but in these times of conflict I can't even hit the invader with my paw

There is no honour among thieves

Tipsy · July 2016

just imagine with all alliances playing together how dense the maps will be;
and how many capped thieves there would be to throw a spanner in the works for the new thieves.
Will they even be able to level legedermain still?

Maybe my proposal does reflect my displeasure for when that one thief threw a spanner in the works for me.

Maybe it needs a more positive suggestion,like "partners in crime"
where players or a guild can team up to plunder certain regions.
would the loot then be shared? or just how bounty is earned?

Leon119 · July 2016

hmm. you snooze you lose OP. your fault for being slow to the lockbox. from the moment that the game doesnt prevent me from looting something i would gladly go take the chest while some1 is fighting the adds that were protecting it and continue on my merry way

Tipsy · July 2016

Leon119 wrote: »

hmm. you snooze you lose OP. your fault for being slow to the lockbox.

is it my fault...
the thing is,if you are lower rank you"ll just have to get sloppy and take the bounty on your head that comes with it
if you even want a chance of getting 1 lockbox when someone shows up who can instant loot most of it.
10 % chance to instant loot vs 70% is huge

Pheefs · July 2016

Tipsy wrote: »

The thing is I was there first.It was my spot.

No.

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

not your boxes until you open them...

Yes!

While you are making YOUR attempt they can't push you out of the way, right?

If someone keeps getting to all the lockboxes before you, I'd try to figure out their pattern & go the other way round town...
or start a little Breaking & Entering, you get the exp for the door & the lockboxes inside are more private.