Nope. I won't join a guild like that. If I KNEW the one running it and knew they were honest... maybe, but even from eq days people sell in game gold and this smacks of it. Since I can't tell who's legit I just avoid it. Someone wants to spend rl money for game money /shrug but I want no part of it.

Deathgiggle wrote: »

Do you think that once text chat is enabled on PS4 that players will just sell in chat instead of going through a guild trader? I understand we will be able to link items, and in other games many people sold high end items via the chat box instead of the auction house.

If the chat is zone wide, then I could see it being a great tool to advertise that rare item you want to sell.

This does not happen on PC/Mac as much as one might think, so no.

I am in four trading guilds that charge 3k-5k weekly; I bought lifetime memberships from two, and am waiting for the other two to offer that. Each of them use those dues to hire traders in high traffic cities, so I make my money back easily...

...but that also has to do with whether you have anything worth selling. As a master of all crafts, I can load up my 30 lots with popular items fairly easily.

I also make a point of supporting my PVP guild with donations, raffle purchases, etc. Running a guild takes a lot of time (that I don't have), and I'm grateful for the work the leaders do.

I think it really depends on how you feel about it. If the guild has a great location, the taxes may not cover the bid. A lot of guilds organize raffles and I contribute to those at least semi-weekly. On the other hand, I'm in a small guild that has a trader and we just deposit gold in the guild bank to make up the shortfall.

At the end of the day, if I do have more gold from sales after raffles and donation than I did before, it's a net benefit.

The trade guild I'm in on PC/NA has a Rawl'kha location. This costs at least 3 million gold every week and I understand it's gone up since I last saw that number being bandied about. Our GM recently mentioned that we only get about a third of our weekly trader fee from tax on sales at the trader, so the rest comes from donations, a (mostly) weekly auction, and the weekly raffle. The guild is consistently at 500 members and if inactive for 7 days (without informing officers about rl issues) members are removed. I don't think buying raffle tickets are mandatory, but it is an elite trade guild and members are expected to participate one way or another, through weekly sales or raffle tickets, etc. For a guild like this I'd see no problem if there were weekly fees or sales goals because we're in the prime trading location for the server.

I'm not in any guilds that charge a fee however I do make regular donations, more in good weeks and less in bad weeks.

I'm fine with fees, if you're in a guild that charges a fee then you either agree and pay or don't and leave its your decision.

I don't think the number of people in the guild should particularly influence the amount of any fee, its just more people equals higher fees equals being able to bid more on traders than a guild with less people.

I don't think sales should be taken into account because that could just lead to the situation where someone is short on their sales quota towards the end of the week and then just undercut other members to hit their target. Even if there's a set price list someone could just buy an item at the set price and just relist at the set price, they hit their target and all its cost them is the listing and selling fees.

Its fair to be removed if you don't keep up with the fees however good guild leaders and officers should use their judgement, it shouldn't be an instant kick if eg someone's been in the guild ages but just happens to miss a week, if they've put extra donations in previously, if they're a big seller, in those cases a polite reminder is all that's needed. There's also responsibility on the members to let people know if eg they're going on holiday for 2 weeks so wont be able to donate.

I feel a lot of people don't realise how much guild traders cost each week, I can only comment on the guilds I'm in (on xbox EU) that the 3.5% made on sales by itself doesn't cover the weekly bids for the guilds I'm in. The other issue is that some people feel entitled to be in a guild with a mournehold trader etc and are outraged when asked to pay a weekly fee which is more than they usually get in a week and don't realise they should start off in a smaller guild. Even if they do join a smaller guild they list stuff at the same price (or more) that they saw it being sold for in one of the main trading centres and then moan because they don't make sales, my advice is lower your prices and watch as next time you log in everything is sold. As a made up example person A belongs to a big trade guild with a trader in a main location and makes sales of 20k (at the going rate for the items being sold) taking off the listing and selling fees gives 18.4k and the guild charges a 10k per week fee leaving a profit of 8.4k. Person B belongs to a small guild with an out of the way trader they sell the same stuff as person A but for 10k (half the going rate to ensure they sell quickly) taking off the listing and selling fees gives 9.2k, the guild doesn't charge a fee so they can either take the lot as profit (and make more than person A) or maybe they make a donation of 0.8k and end up making exactly the same amount as person A

Cazzy wrote: »

There are lot of trading Guilds out there that request a certain amount to be deposited on a weekly basis. It can be anything from 1k - 10k, but averages at 5,000 gold.

How do you feel about these fees?
Does it depend on how many people are in the Guild?
Do you think the money made from sales should be included?
Is it fair or not to be removed if you don't keep up payments?
Are people misunderstanding the importance of fees?

As always, I'm looking for a civil discussion so let's keep it polite

How do you feel about these fees?
I don't mind them a bit, but there's an upper limit. I won't pay any more than 5k in weekly "dues". Any more than that and it starts to throw off that ratio of benefit/cost.

Does it depend on how many people are in the Guild?
Not in my experience. Usually it's set down by the Guildmaster/Guild Leadership based on the location they desire to occupy as far as Trader Stalls are concerned. More popular shopping places like Mournhold/Rawl'Kha/Wayrest/etc, those Guilds usually charge a bit higher fee to keep such a great location. And I'm down with that.

Do you think the money made from sales should be included?
Again, it really depends on the Guild you're in. Personally, I don't mind paying the fee/dues on top of the Guild-cut per transaction. It gets the Guild more money, which allows them to keep that great location in Mournhold.

Is it fair or not to be removed if you don't keep up payments?
Yes, that's perfectly fair. Upon joining a Trading Guild, most all of them have the requirements for Guild Membership in their "About Us" or "Daily Message" section that you read fairly soon upon joining. If you don't abide by or are uncomfortable with those requirements, then it's perfectly fair to be kicked out or to leave said Guild. None of us really have any "rights" in this game where Guilds and Guild Membership are concerned. Guildmasters or anyone given the Promote/Demote/Kick members authority can remove you for any reason at any time, and there's really nothing a person can do about it. So getting removed/demoted for not paying the Guild Fees is perfectly fair.

Are people misunderstanding the importance of fees?
I think they are. I think quite a few people have no idea how much Gold it takes to keep a Stall in a good location from week to week. Having a good Stall location is tantamount to having more items move more frequently, thus increasing the profit of the Guild members selling their items. Fees are part of that whole supply chain. They aren't for the greed of the Guildmaster. They aren't put in place just to "watch the ants squirm". They serve a vital purpose for keeping the best locations, and the longer a great location is in the hands of a single Guild, the more money the Guild members who participate in Trading make. So yes, I do believe that Fees are a pretty misunderstood feature in Trading Guilds.

But as in all things, no one is required to stay in any certain or specific Guild. If the terms and conditions for staying in a Guild become toxic for anyone, they should leave said Guild. This is, after all; a game. Games are meant for relaxation and as an escape and Hobby. They shouldn't give you more or equal stress to what real life employment brings.

People have to keep in mind that, without Master Merchant, there's no way on Console to see who is and isn't selling. So if a prime trading guild wants to keep a roster of active sellers, they can either do so directly on PC by identifying who the non-sellers are, or indirectly on Console, by charging a fee that non-sellers would balk at. After all, why pay a fee if you aren't profiting from membership? I personally don't like fees and don't have them in my guild, but I can understand why they're commonplace on Console, where guild leaders have far fewer management tools at their disposal.

Anyway, funding for a guild trader is a mess because we can't set our own taxes. There's a 1% listing fee that's just a gold sink and a 7% "House Cut", half of which is a ZOS gold sink and the other half--a mere 3.5%--goes to the guild. So out of every listing and sale, the seller loses 4.5% to ZOS and contributes 3.5% to the guild.

3.5% really isn't much, and it's why guilds have to seek out alternate funding sources. If ZOS would allow guilds to change that 3.5%, trading guilds would be so much easier to manage. Guilds in prime locations can set high taxes, and guilds in middling or poor locations can have lower taxes. The choice of guild will also be clearer for members: they can sell in a top-tier guild and pay more taxes or sell in a more casual trading guild and pay less.

The current system, where guilds need to do fundraiser events week after week--is very taxing for guild leaders, and I know guildmasters who have burned out. I run a relatively casual trading guild, and handling the comparatively modest raffles each week---gathering up prizes, processing and recording entries, doing the raffle itself, etc.--is a lot of work, and I can't begin to imagine how much worse it is at a large top-tier trading guild, where not only do they have much larger, more complex raffles to run, but also auctions and other activities. I would never, ever want to run a top-tier trading guild, not unless guilds are finally allowed to set our own tax rates so that we don't have to act like a public radio station during pledge season every single week.

Lumenn wrote: »

Nope. I won't join a guild like that. If I KNEW the one running it and knew they were honest... maybe, but even from eq days people sell in game gold and this smacks of it. Since I can't tell who's legit I just avoid it. Someone wants to spend rl money for game money /shrug but I want no part of it.

I think you misunderstand the OP. We are not refering to "Real Money", or the "Buy in game gold spammers", but the required dues of in game gold to be a part of a guild. I have been on PC/NA since early access, and I have never seen gold spammers in game. ( well, a few at launch, but Zos squished those real quick).

When I come back in August, I'm donating all my alliance points to the guild (since I don't PvP). When I get a good gold flow, I'll be donating gold as well