Remove Racial Passives : Allow Passives Selection Manually

Jaronking · July 2016

KingShocker wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

I'm not hosing lore based passives because some players want more options.

that's like saying black people can't swim and white people can't jump. why can't a khajiit be just as good at magika as a high elf or a wood elf just as good at tanking as a imperial?

What the *** are you talking about that's no where near the got dam same thing.Don't try to bring real worlds stereotypes into the argument because you just look ridiculous. Also player skills matter you can be the best with any race combination as longs as you know what your doing especially with tanking.Also let's look at lore High ELF's have always had a better magica racial that Aline with magica than a khajit,which is a race not really known for its wizards same as RedGuards do they have them hell yea are they fun to play off races specs hell yea. Its min/maxing its the whole dam point you give up other things so you can max out your character so don't got dam complain that your favorite race isn't the best for everything.When lore trumps your wants plus it isn't balance its making every class and build the same like we pretty much have now don't make it worst with passive changes like this.

Abeille · July 2016

No

Shadesofkin wrote: »

AshTal wrote: »

Racial are part of ES lore but in an MMO they need to be balanced or allow us to pick the ones we want. If we could pick them it would end the constant moaning over night.

No, it would simply bring the Lore fans up to the forefront of the moaning.

Which is why putting the softcaps back in place is the best option. It solves both the balance and the lore problem.

Because right now? It is neither balanced nor lore-accurate. Anyone of any race should be able to excel on anything they put enough time and effort in. There are enough examples in the lore of characters who are of the "wrong race" and are still on the top of their fields. Not all Altmer are mages. Not all Nords are averse to magic. Not all Argonians are healers.

ZOS, please consider putting softcaps back in place. "Overcharged" stats, remember? Put them back. They should never have been removed to begin with.

Forestd16b14_ESO · July 2016

No

Thing is the racial passives are more there for lore reasoning than gameplay reasoning.

Like take Nords for example now their racial passive not only increases skill exp towards 2-handed weapons but adds mroe time to consumed drinks and in TES the Nords are know for being heavily armed brutes who tend to get drunk alot and it wouldn't make much sense atleast lore wise any way if a nord was a expert in the magical arts or assassination arts.

Let the racial passive be their the last bit or lore in ESO since One Tamerial is literally and I do mean literally destroying half of ESO lore.

Abeille · July 2016

No

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Thing is the racial passives are more there for lore reasoning than gameplay reasoning.

Like take Nords for example now their racial passive not only increases skill exp towards 2-handed weapons but adds mroe time to consumed drinks and in TES the Nords are know for being heavily armed brutes who tend to get drunk alot and it wouldn't make much sense atleast lore wise any way if a nord was a expert in the magical arts or assassination arts.

Let the racial passive be their the last bit or lore in ESO since One Tamerial is literally and I do mean literally destroying half of ESO lore.

Shalidor would like to have a word with you.

potirondb16_ESO · July 2016

A lot of variety is good, small background story could also be...

Forestd16b14_ESO · July 2016

No

Abeille wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Thing is the racial passives are more there for lore reasoning than gameplay reasoning.

Like take Nords for example now their racial passive not only increases skill exp towards 2-handed weapons but adds mroe time to consumed drinks and in TES the Nords are know for being heavily armed brutes who tend to get drunk alot and it wouldn't make much sense atleast lore wise any way if a nord was a expert in the magical arts or assassination arts.

Let the racial passive be their the last bit or lore in ESO since One Tamerial is literally and I do mean literally destroying half of ESO lore.

Shalidor would like to have a word with you.

Yea yea few nords are good at magic but by blood and just down right common knowledgea majority of nords are a brutish type of people who valor a good sword arm and to drink enough mead to make Ysgramor red in the face.

GeneralPardon · July 2016

No

In my opinion the whole issue here is that freedom of choice in race is locked behind a paywall.
My Breton Sorc isn't fully min-maxed although I know it's not the worst either, yet with a good group composition and proper buffs/debuffs I still hit like a truck. All the current 4 man content is actually very easy with the right composition, the "new" trials on live are actually beatable without having a 12 man group full of min-maxers.
It feels like you are trying to compensate for a lack of skill by stacking up enough passives to unrealistic values.
Don't forget it is still an Elder Scrolls game, and that is what it should be at its core. I wouldn't play this game anymore if it would become a generic MMO, I play this game because it's The Elder Scrolls and not just an MMO.

Lord_Eomer · July 2016

Yes Remove Racial Passives and Let Players Manually Choose Passives

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Thing is the racial passives are more there for lore reasoning than gameplay reasoning.

Like take Nords for example now their racial passive not only increases skill exp towards 2-handed weapons but adds mroe time to consumed drinks and in TES the Nords are know for being heavily armed brutes who tend to get drunk alot and it wouldn't make much sense atleast lore wise any way if a nord was a expert in the magical arts or assassination arts.

Let the racial passive be their the last bit or lore in ESO since One Tamerial is literally and I do mean literally destroying half of ESO lore.

Shalidor would like to have a word with you.

Yea yea few nords are good at magic but by blood and just down right common knowledgea majority of nords are a brutish type of people who valor a good sword arm and to drink enough mead to make Ysgramor red in the face.

As being a tank brutish? It's an insult for Nords. They are great warriors but in ESO no more than damage absorbing fools. They should be par with redguards.

Except Redguards there is no human race with the better DPS.

Not sure if humans played very less role in Elder Scrolls history comparing Elves, Cats and ORC.

Jaronking · July 2016

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Thing is the racial passives are more there for lore reasoning than gameplay reasoning.

Like take Nords for example now their racial passive not only increases skill exp towards 2-handed weapons but adds mroe time to consumed drinks and in TES the Nords are know for being heavily armed brutes who tend to get drunk alot and it wouldn't make much sense atleast lore wise any way if a nord was a expert in the magical arts or assassination arts.

Let the racial passive be their the last bit or lore in ESO since One Tamerial is literally and I do mean literally destroying half of ESO lore.

Shalidor would like to have a word with you.

Yea yea few nords are good at magic but by blood and just down right common knowledgea majority of nords are a brutish type of people who valor a good sword arm and to drink enough mead to make Ysgramor red in the face.

As being a tank brutish? It's an insult for Nords. They are great warriors but in ESO no more than damage absorbing fools. They should be par with redguards.

Except Redguards there is no human race with the better DPS.

Not sure if humans played very less role in Elder Scrolls history comparing Elves, Cats and ORC.

Actually Nords are not on par with RedGuards.Redguards have always been the better warriors.They just about fought everyone and kicked all the other racists out of Hammerfall when they first came over.So no they should not be on par with Redguards since they are the better warriors same with Imperials.

You can get Good DPS with any race its the beast people who can get the highest.Redguards are just a close seconds because of how well they can sustain themselves.

Khaos_Bane · July 2016

Yes Remove Racial Passives and Let Players Manually Choose Passives

Remove them. Not everyone cares about how the ES game started with racial passives in 1994. So what.

Crap I meant to pick OTHER, as in remove them.

Abeille · July 2016

No

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Thing is the racial passives are more there for lore reasoning than gameplay reasoning.

Like take Nords for example now their racial passive not only increases skill exp towards 2-handed weapons but adds mroe time to consumed drinks and in TES the Nords are know for being heavily armed brutes who tend to get drunk alot and it wouldn't make much sense atleast lore wise any way if a nord was a expert in the magical arts or assassination arts.

Let the racial passive be their the last bit or lore in ESO since One Tamerial is literally and I do mean literally destroying half of ESO lore.

Shalidor would like to have a word with you.

Yea yea few nords are good at magic but by blood and just down right common knowledgea majority of nords are a brutish type of people who valor a good sword arm and to drink enough mead to make Ysgramor red in the face.

It doesn't mean every Nord has to be like that, or that they can't be great on other areas, like the example I gave.

This is like those arguments before launch when the Any Race, Any Alliance perk was announced, with people saying "Yeah but the majority of Altmer would be in the Dominion so they shouldn't be allowed to be made on any of the other alliances". That restriction is what is actually lore-breaking.

Same for the Nords not doing magic. There is precedent, and not of just a Nord "doing magic" but of becoming one of the best mages of all time. It is lore-friendly, and imposing a certain archetype on every Nord is what goes against the lore. TES has something going for it that I will always value: The characters are people. They behave and grow like people. And they will go and do what they want no matter what their parents and grandparents and neighbors did their whole lives. They are not bound by their race or their place of birth.

And that is why soft-caps being put back is the most lore-friendly option.

Shadesofkin · July 2016

No

Abeille wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Thing is the racial passives are more there for lore reasoning than gameplay reasoning.

Like take Nords for example now their racial passive not only increases skill exp towards 2-handed weapons but adds mroe time to consumed drinks and in TES the Nords are know for being heavily armed brutes who tend to get drunk alot and it wouldn't make much sense atleast lore wise any way if a nord was a expert in the magical arts or assassination arts.

Let the racial passive be their the last bit or lore in ESO since One Tamerial is literally and I do mean literally destroying half of ESO lore.

Shalidor would like to have a word with you.

Yea yea few nords are good at magic but by blood and just down right common knowledgea majority of nords are a brutish type of people who valor a good sword arm and to drink enough mead to make Ysgramor red in the face.

It doesn't mean every Nord has to be like that, or that they can't be great on other areas, like the example I gave.

This is like those arguments before launch when the Any Race, Any Alliance perk was announced, with people saying "Yeah but the majority of Altmer would be in the Dominion so they shouldn't be allowed to be made on any of the other alliances". That restriction is what is actually lore-breaking.

Same for the Nords not doing magic. There is precedent, and not of just a Nord "doing magic" but of becoming one of the best mages of all time. It is lore-friendly, and imposing a certain archetype on every Nord is what goes against the lore. TES has something going for it that I will always value: The characters are people. They behave and grow like people. And they will go and do what they want no matter what their parents and grandparents and neighbors did their whole lives. They are not bound by their race or their place of birth.

And that is why soft-caps being put back is the most lore-friendly option.

I do agree that a Soft Cap reintroduction is by FAR and AWAY more lore friendly than removing racial passives. Though I think the soft caps would probably need to be tweaked from their original levels, it might prove to be the better option.

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Remove them. Not everyone cares about how the ES game started with racial passives in 1994. So what.

Racial passives are an important part of the rpg character gen process. It's not just '94, it's existed since long before that and continues to exist in proper rpg's. Only the most recent games (of which many are vastly inferior to their predecessors) have removed this sort of nuanced character generation.

Abeille · July 2016

No

Shadesofkin wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Thing is the racial passives are more there for lore reasoning than gameplay reasoning.

Like take Nords for example now their racial passive not only increases skill exp towards 2-handed weapons but adds mroe time to consumed drinks and in TES the Nords are know for being heavily armed brutes who tend to get drunk alot and it wouldn't make much sense atleast lore wise any way if a nord was a expert in the magical arts or assassination arts.

Let the racial passive be their the last bit or lore in ESO since One Tamerial is literally and I do mean literally destroying half of ESO lore.

Shalidor would like to have a word with you.

Yea yea few nords are good at magic but by blood and just down right common knowledgea majority of nords are a brutish type of people who valor a good sword arm and to drink enough mead to make Ysgramor red in the face.

It doesn't mean every Nord has to be like that, or that they can't be great on other areas, like the example I gave.

This is like those arguments before launch when the Any Race, Any Alliance perk was announced, with people saying "Yeah but the majority of Altmer would be in the Dominion so they shouldn't be allowed to be made on any of the other alliances". That restriction is what is actually lore-breaking.

Same for the Nords not doing magic. There is precedent, and not of just a Nord "doing magic" but of becoming one of the best mages of all time. It is lore-friendly, and imposing a certain archetype on every Nord is what goes against the lore. TES has something going for it that I will always value: The characters are people. They behave and grow like people. And they will go and do what they want no matter what their parents and grandparents and neighbors did their whole lives. They are not bound by their race or their place of birth.

And that is why soft-caps being put back is the most lore-friendly option.

I do agree that a Soft Cap reintroduction is by FAR and AWAY more lore friendly than removing racial passives. Though I think the soft caps would probably need to be tweaked from their original levels, it might prove to be the better option.

Oh yes they surely would have to be tweaked, and a lot. We can get our stats much higher than we could back when they were removed, so it would be absurdly easy to reach the soft caps on everything and then all characters would be the same if the soft caps were not tweaked from their original levels. ZOS would need to account for Champion Ranks too, since they also increase the primary stats.

I imagine it must be pretty complicated for ZOS to reintroduce soft-caps now, but it is something that I think that could really improve balance.

silky_soft · July 2016

Yes Remove Racial Passives and Let Players Manually Choose Passives

But they won't take away a new income stream

DemiDemon · July 2016

No

I say no to this. In Skyrim we had to deal with the passives we got, should continue on like this. People have complained enough that it's not like a elder scrolls game, why take more away from it? (Unless this was in another previous TES title that I never played that you could select passives).

KingShocker · July 2016

Yes Remove Racial Passives and Let Players Manually Choose Passives

Jaronking wrote: »

KingShocker wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

I'm not hosing lore based passives because some players want more options.

that's like saying black people can't swim and white people can't jump. why can't a khajiit be just as good at magika as a high elf or a wood elf just as good at tanking as a imperial?

What the *** are you talking about that's no where near the got dam same thing.Don't try to bring real worlds stereotypes into the argument because you just look ridiculous. Also player skills matter you can be the best with any race combination as longs as you know what your doing especially with tanking.Also let's look at lore High ELF's have always had a better magica racial that Aline with magica than a khajit,which is a race not really known for its wizards same as RedGuards do they have them hell yea are they fun to play off races specs hell yea. Its min/maxing its the whole dam point you give up other things so you can max out your character so don't got dam complain that your favorite race isn't the best for everything.When lore trumps your wants plus it isn't balance its making every class and build the same like we pretty much have now don't make it worst with passive changes like this.

Have you played the game? after doing the two moons path storyline or the quest for that invisibility mantle it looks like khajiit's are extremely good with magic and some high elves are incredible knights and so on.

Player skill is a cheap answer to allot of imbalances in the game. it's obvious you have character with the perfect build with it's racial and this thread threatens your build but don't be one of those l2p shouting idiots when you disagree with someone.

"Its min/maxing its the whole dam point you give up other things so you can max out your character" you're making my point for me here. lets look at a khajiit mage verses a high elf. the high elf has more max magika, more more magika regen, and higher elemental damage. and the khajiit has what? a little bit of stam regen may be kinda nice but nothing else to help. so in the spirit of MIN/MAXing you would have to convert your mage into a high elf just to be competitive. so much for play as you want.

I know allot of the argument here is that older elder scrolls games had racial passives but most of those racial skills became almost totally irrelevant after leveling to a point in the game, while these passives (like %based increases) become massively more important as you increase in power. and those older games were not set in competitive mmo landscapes.

non combat related (and maybe even cosmetic) passive would be totally fine, like swim speed and reduced fall damage, maybe they should just stick with those.

also my correlation between your opinion of the games races and real world racism seems to be fairly accurate specially after your reply.

"When lore trumps your wants" sounds allot like "when segregation trumps your rights"

the Rosa Parks of tameriel must hate you.

Jaronking · July 2016

@KingShocker really can you read I even said their exception to the rule but you shouldn't completely change the racial for exceptions.Shadilor a great Wizards does that man every nord are great wizard and should have a bonus to magica? no it shouldn't Nords are known for that.Its different for High ELF's they have a High affinity for magica its in their blood
Even their Knights still have that magica ability to fall back on.Your building for exceptions something they shouldn't do.

Your wrong about that as I said earlier in this thread I have a Redguard magica Sorc farthest thing you can make that isn't min maxed right as you can be.I have a Red guard for every class because I love the Race and I do dam well with them and can still put out good DPS in PVE when am forced to do it and still kill people in PVP with my SORC.Look at King Richard he did the same thing because he liked the race and he a amazing player.You can have a min maxed build and race and still get wiped and put DPS by a non min/maxed build because that player is better than you.So Yes its a L2P issue.Not to mentioned play as you want never ment that every thing was is competitive it means play the game as you want we will Nerf everything so you still feel like it works.They never said every build will be competitive which if you know what your doing it can be.

You know the one thing about MMO is that you shouldn't homogenous everything its lazy game design and ruins games.

Actually am pretty sure Rosa park of Tamerial would love me plus my quote got cut in half but IRS whatever am fine with you being a idiot it doesn't affect me.

Lumenn · July 2016

Yes Remove Racial Passives and Let Players Manually Choose Passives

People keep mentioning player skill like that means something? I get that if you work and learn your character you can finish everything in the game with a sub race. The point is that the same player will come out ahead with an altmer sorcerer than bosmer sorcerer. There should be a way to make that bosmer (even if he's the "one of a kind) stand on even ground. THEN player skill kicks in. (and I have a bosmer magicka templar and a khajiit magicka nb so I don't let racials stop me)

Unfortunately if zos allowed us to picks our perks or reintroduced caps there would be no reason to pay for a race change. Now I WOULD pay to change my racial bonuses but I'm thinking that would be p2w so wouldn't pass through.

KingShocker · July 2016

Yes Remove Racial Passives and Let Players Manually Choose Passives

@Jaronking

hahaha oh man. that was embarrassing to read. doesn't affect you eh? being so childish that you call me a idiot suggests you were very affected (and let me guess, your reply will be some sort of scoff followed by denials). I do like how I said not to be that l2p shouting idiot and then you do it, made me laugh. Also competitive play suggests everyone is closely equal in skill so l2p is actually irrelevant, I assumed you would of had that figured out but I guess I assumed to much of you. my bad.

this thread doesn't suggest homogenization, just that your passives should be tied to something like your back story and not race BECAUSE of the exceptions you noted (shalidor, etc.)

And what's with your wonky idea of min/maxed? if you're a magika sorc and have redguard passives instead of high elf or Breton, then you're clearly not min/maxed. infact if I were you I wouldn't have even brought up the topic of min/maxing just because it erodes the foundation of your entire argument.

With your incredibly biased opinion on race, I doubt Rosa Parks would be much of a fan of you.

And you didn't see the relation I made between you and the bus driver? I got to stop making comments that go over people's heads like that.

we have both clearly laid out our points and perspectives on this topic, and I for one think we have beaten these dead horses enough. you can keep on going on with this pissing contest if you want, I am kinda interested in what kind of petty insult you'll throw out next, but I suggest giving it a break. the developers (if they're reading this) should have gotten the just of both our arguments and there is really very little to be gained from continuing.

Best of luck to your endeavor to dictate what races should and shouldn't be good at.

Jaronking · July 2016

@KingShocker like I said before don't try to bring real word racism into the game when it comes to the races argument you trying to make yourself seem like a intellectual when it really has no bearing on the conversation. That was my point and that's why I called you a idiot. Which your reply also showed but am sire you won't understand that.because you clearly forgot your own original post.Yea am be the L2P idiot because a lot of things in this game is really that a L2P problems for so many players its just dam right ridiculous.Their examples for this everyday on this forusm but Hey look at your original post dude and see why I said that because I was responding to your own points.

"Player skill is a cheap answer to allot of imbalances in the game. it's obvious you have character with the perfect build with it's racial and this thread threatens your build but don't be one of those l2p shouting idiots when you disagree with someone."

That's what I replied to its the reason I gave you the examples I did, you don't have to be min maxed prefect race to do any of the content in the game.Like I said I have a Redguard magica sorcs its the farthest things in the game from Min maxed.So I have no idea what your talking about.The same with L2P isn't irrelevant look at PVP the King Richard Fengrush,one a Redguard Magica Sorc the other a ORC Stam Sorcs and again some of the best players in the game who defeated people in 1v1 with min/maxed racist and their are others. In PVE if you build right every Race can do Competitive DPS in this game.Will every Race setup hit 50k on a Stamina build or 45k on a magica build and that's the top 1%.second tier raiders most of them are doing 30k and you can reach that with a non race setup.Can everyone reach that 1% no not many players will I doubt me and you every well even with the OP changes many of us still won't be hitting 50k DPS.That doesn't mean your not competitive your just not the best.

Am sorry but what the OP is asking for is Homogenous the passives so every stamina build and magic build will have the same passives that's what I disagree with.That is lazy game design I have no problem with them making all passives viable for magica and stamina for that race but don't allow people to pick their passives because everyone will be the same that's my problem with this.That doesn't change that other racists will still be better than others.

KingShocker · July 2016

Yes Remove Racial Passives and Let Players Manually Choose Passives

Jaronking wrote: »

@KingShocker like I said before don't try to bring real word racism into the game when it comes to the races argument you trying to make yourself seem like a intellectual when it really has no bearing on the conversation. That was my point and that's why I called you a idiot. Which your reply also showed but am sire you won't understand that.because you clearly forgot your own original post.Yea am be the L2P idiot because a lot of things in this game is really that a L2P problems for so many players its just dam right ridiculous.Their examples for this everyday on this forusm but Hey look at your original post dude and see why I said that because I was responding to your own points.

"Player skill is a cheap answer to allot of imbalances in the game. it's obvious you have character with the perfect build with it's racial and this thread threatens your build but don't be one of those l2p shouting idiots when you disagree with someone."

That's what I replied to its the reason I gave you the examples I did, you don't have to be min maxed prefect race to do any of the content in the game.Like I said I have a Redguard magica sorcs its the farthest things in the game from Min maxed.So I have no idea what your talking about.The same with L2P isn't irrelevant look at PVP the King Richard Fengrush,one a Redguard Magica Sorc the other a ORC Stam Sorcs and again some of the best players in the game who defeated people in 1v1 with min/maxed racist and their are others. In PVE if you build right every Race can do Competitive DPS in this game.Will every Race setup hit 50k on a Stamina build or 45k on a magica build and that's the top 1%.second tier raiders most of them are doing 30k and you can reach that with a non race setup.Can everyone reach that 1% no not many players will I doubt me and you every well even with the OP changes many of us still won't be hitting 50k DPS.That doesn't mean your not competitive your just not the best.

Am sorry but what the OP is asking for is Homogenous the passives so every stamina build and magic build will have the same passives that's what I disagree with.That is lazy game design I have no problem with them making all passives viable for magica and stamina for that race but don't allow people to pick their passives because everyone will be the same that's my problem with this.That doesn't change that other racists will still be better than others.

Jesus Christ dude, did you read the end of my last comment. give it a break. all you've proven is you don't fully under stand min/maxing, homogenization, the relevance between this game and the hot topic of real world racism, and how childish all your insults make you look.

I don't normally think I'm any more or less intelligent than anyone else but holy *** you're making me look like Einstein.

also I still love how I stated in my original post not to be one of those l2p shouting idiots and you keep choosing to make l2p the bulk of EVERY one of your arguments, it cracks me up. And, I originally made that comment assuming you were better than that. I had no idea you would repeatedly make that pitfall.

sure the players you mentioned are good but if you cloned them, had them fight themselves but changed the clones character to a high elf sorc, same gear, same build, everything the same, the clone would have a significant benefit to damage (max magika, magika regen, elelmental damage) over the redguard. we're talking about stats here. l2p is and always will be irrelevant in this argument (even though i'm 100% sure you will scoff and deny it again, like you've been doing this entire time).

Fun fact: did you know in previous elder scrolls games there was also a difference between male and female stats? Is the gender inequality in this game? then should the race inequality still be a thing? should female characters make less gold because they have historically? ok that last one's a joke but I'm sure you can see the relevance. but seriously with your argument points, should female characters also be weaker? Did you rage out on the forums that the equality of characters genders was homogenizing the game?

and no that's not at all what the OP is asking for, "Yes Remove Racial Passives and Let Players Manually Choose Passives" the passive would still be there just not tied to race. and no, stamina and magika builds would not be homogenized with the same passive, again: "Yes Remove Racial Passives and Let Players Manually Choose Passives" stam and magika users would have the different passive that they chose through some sort of back story. ie, a wood elf was adopted and raised by the mages guild etc.

You didn't even build a good response to my last comment. hell, I don't even think you read it. and you didn't even bring up any new points, you're just repeating the same low q concepts that you clearly have a hard time wrapping your own head around. like I said last time, give it a break man. you're clearly struggling here.

ZombieZig · July 2016

No

Please leave the game and play something else. This is an Elderscrolls game. If you are unfamiliar with its mechanics, dont try to change them for others. This is not a broken system, you instead are broken. Look inward for things that can be improved.

Leave my damn game alone.

*Uses blade of woe on OP*

Strider_Roshin · July 2016

KingShocker wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

I'm not hosing lore based passives because some players want more options.

that's like saying black people can't swim and white people can't jump. why can't a khajiit be just as good at magika as a high elf or a wood elf just as good at tanking as a imperial?

This is a terrible analogy. Black and white people aren't different races; it's different concentrations of melanin. The races in the Elder Scrolls series are literally different races with different mythologies and biological functions. The only races in the game that could be argued as being the same race would be humanoids: Nords, Imperial, Bretons, and Redguards. Elves: Dunmer, Altmer, Bosmer, and Orsimer. Then Argonians and Khajiits are in a category of their own.

Khaos_Bane · July 2016

Yes Remove Racial Passives and Let Players Manually Choose Passives

Shadesofkin wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Thing is the racial passives are more there for lore reasoning than gameplay reasoning.

Like take Nords for example now their racial passive not only increases skill exp towards 2-handed weapons but adds mroe time to consumed drinks and in TES the Nords are know for being heavily armed brutes who tend to get drunk alot and it wouldn't make much sense atleast lore wise any way if a nord was a expert in the magical arts or assassination arts.

Let the racial passive be their the last bit or lore in ESO since One Tamerial is literally and I do mean literally destroying half of ESO lore.

Shalidor would like to have a word with you.

Yea yea few nords are good at magic but by blood and just down right common knowledgea majority of nords are a brutish type of people who valor a good sword arm and to drink enough mead to make Ysgramor red in the face.

It doesn't mean every Nord has to be like that, or that they can't be great on other areas, like the example I gave.

This is like those arguments before launch when the Any Race, Any Alliance perk was announced, with people saying "Yeah but the majority of Altmer would be in the Dominion so they shouldn't be allowed to be made on any of the other alliances". That restriction is what is actually lore-breaking.

Same for the Nords not doing magic. There is precedent, and not of just a Nord "doing magic" but of becoming one of the best mages of all time. It is lore-friendly, and imposing a certain archetype on every Nord is what goes against the lore. TES has something going for it that I will always value: The characters are people. They behave and grow like people. And they will go and do what they want no matter what their parents and grandparents and neighbors did their whole lives. They are not bound by their race or their place of birth.

And that is why soft-caps being put back is the most lore-friendly option.

I do agree that a Soft Cap reintroduction is by FAR and AWAY more lore friendly than removing racial passives. Though I think the soft caps would probably need to be tweaked from their original levels, it might prove to be the better option.

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Remove them. Not everyone cares about how the ES game started with racial passives in 1994. So what.

Racial passives are an important part of the rpg character gen process. It's not just '94, it's existed since long before that and continues to exist in proper rpg's. Only the most recent games (of which many are vastly inferior to their predecessors) have removed this sort of nuanced character generation.

To you they might be, but you aren't everyone. Anyway, you can have passives by selecting them and it doesn't break lore either. Personally, I would like to see them gone rather than picking a certain amount.

itehache · July 2016

No

While I get why you want to manually choose your passives, please remember this game is based in the elder scrolls lore and in all previous games depending on the race you would pick you'd get different pros and cons. It should not change.

Besides, you can actually play the race you want mixed with the class you want. You will not be top dps or top healing but the possibility is there.

(edited for typos)

Shadesofkin · July 2016

No

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Thing is the racial passives are more there for lore reasoning than gameplay reasoning.

Like take Nords for example now their racial passive not only increases skill exp towards 2-handed weapons but adds mroe time to consumed drinks and in TES the Nords are know for being heavily armed brutes who tend to get drunk alot and it wouldn't make much sense atleast lore wise any way if a nord was a expert in the magical arts or assassination arts.

Let the racial passive be their the last bit or lore in ESO since One Tamerial is literally and I do mean literally destroying half of ESO lore.

Shalidor would like to have a word with you.

Yea yea few nords are good at magic but by blood and just down right common knowledgea majority of nords are a brutish type of people who valor a good sword arm and to drink enough mead to make Ysgramor red in the face.

It doesn't mean every Nord has to be like that, or that they can't be great on other areas, like the example I gave.

This is like those arguments before launch when the Any Race, Any Alliance perk was announced, with people saying "Yeah but the majority of Altmer would be in the Dominion so they shouldn't be allowed to be made on any of the other alliances". That restriction is what is actually lore-breaking.

Same for the Nords not doing magic. There is precedent, and not of just a Nord "doing magic" but of becoming one of the best mages of all time. It is lore-friendly, and imposing a certain archetype on every Nord is what goes against the lore. TES has something going for it that I will always value: The characters are people. They behave and grow like people. And they will go and do what they want no matter what their parents and grandparents and neighbors did their whole lives. They are not bound by their race or their place of birth.

And that is why soft-caps being put back is the most lore-friendly option.

I do agree that a Soft Cap reintroduction is by FAR and AWAY more lore friendly than removing racial passives. Though I think the soft caps would probably need to be tweaked from their original levels, it might prove to be the better option.

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Remove them. Not everyone cares about how the ES game started with racial passives in 1994. So what.

Racial passives are an important part of the rpg character gen process. It's not just '94, it's existed since long before that and continues to exist in proper rpg's. Only the most recent games (of which many are vastly inferior to their predecessors) have removed this sort of nuanced character generation.

To you they might be, but you aren't everyone. Anyway, you can have passives by selecting them and it doesn't break lore either. Personally, I would like to see them gone rather than picking a certain amount.

You're right, I'm not everyone, but I know what I'm talking about.

Choosing Race is an important step in generating a Role Playing Game Character. The fact that so many modern "rpgs" have removed this choice from you for anything short of cosmetic and dialogue reasons is not only ridiculous, but insulting to the many games that came before.

Having options would in fact make racial's nothing more than cosmetic choices and I'm not down with that and neither is anyone else who wants the lore to stay even remotely true. Personally I'd much rather see us return to having full on Ability Scores: Strength, Agility, Endurance, etc etc and have racials bump those instead. Sadly because of the Skyrim generation we have "health, stam, magikca"

Bigevilpeter · July 2016

No

i like the idea that every race has their own identity, making all races the same would really kill that.

KimberlyannKitsuragi · July 2016

Yes Remove Racial Passives and Let Players Manually Choose Passives

I love this idea

I don't think it would make all races the same but it could help bring other races up to speed and up to where we all wish they should be with health regen and such

Taleof2Cities · July 2016

No

I'm Elder Scrolls old school ... so having racial passives unique to the race is line with prior ES games.

However, my vote is not a very hard "no". I don't think I would object to being able to select racial passives. It was similar in Morrowind where you could buff two attribute lines in character creation.

idk · July 2016

No

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

If we remain with Passives per Race then it will be always min/max problem over favorite race.

Do you think Redguards and Khahit or Nord are equally good DPS in PVP? 4K additional stamina is useless or ignorable?

Altemrs, Dunmer comparing Bretons are equally good DPS in PVE or PVP?

Why we see more Redguards in PVP or more Altemrs but not bretons or Argonians?

Developers seeds this problem, unbalance races will remain an issue.

Developers may not able to fix this min/max issue, I have 4 bretons and I want to maximize my DPS, what should I do without changing race?

Yes I will always lose DPS with my existing choice and can never beat Altemrs or Dunmer.

I'm pleased to see your newfound interest in min/max. Obviously would have been easier if that path was chosen before 4 Bretons were rolled.

In reality, the damage difference is small. And Bretons do have the best sustain in combat with the cost reduction.

Oh, and I have both a Breton and high elf Templar. The damage difference is all and he's, I use blockade and reflective lights, both fire.

I know many who've choosen races for odd reasons and do well. I even know someone on a wood elf magika Templar that is one of the best healers I've run with. Is he changing the race of that character, no.