BOP shenanigans

daemonios · July 2016

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Many of the best sets available are BoP, and for good reason. These items are generally more potent than most others, even the ones BoE as opposed to crafted. Of course there are good BoE and craftable sets too but the thing is the best stuff needs to be BoP to make people work for them, otherwise anyone can buy the best items in the game with gold they probably got from a rich friend, assuming the item wasn't sold for only 100k.

Sure many see it as a pain in the ass but remove BoP and everyone will start running around with the same ***. Too much in this game is so easy to get, let's not make it all that way. Besides, BoP item trading within your group when you get it is coming so you at least have that to look forward to.

Bulls***.

Just yesterday I went on a rant in these here forums because after 70+ runs and opening 18 vault chests I still only have 2 divines Scathing Mage pieces from vICP. That is not considering all the runs I did before I started hoarding the shackles, and I started hoarding them because I felt the loot system was sh** and wanted to try and wait for some changes which never came. I'm in a similar situation with Spell Power Cure, although for that set I'm only missing 1 piece in divines.

I personally can't stand vMA. I just can't do it, I'm bored to death after 20 minutes. But I do know dozens of people who've farmed the hell out of that hell hole and still don't have whatever weapons they've been looking for.

This is not "difficult do obtain" gear. It's random-to-obtain-and-you-might-never-get-it gear. Completely different. I'm at a point where I think all gear should simply be BoE, no exceptions. In fact, I'm at a point where I've already cancelled my sub and the fact that ZOS has yet to address this issue in any way whatsoever doesn't fill me with eagerness to renew when my game time ends.

purple-magicb16_ESO · July 2016

Vangy wrote: »

Hey friends,

ESO has tons of nice new sets that im sure everyone would love to try. But here's the problem,

1. 100s of layers of RNG.
2. Followed by BOP.

Its a monstrosity..... Take wrothgar sets for example. I remember when orsinium first came out, I was so excited to try out the new sets. So I had 6 toons. At max level in gold gear. So I did 6*6 dailies a day for about a month. I got a full set of trinimacs, some briar crap pieces and the pariah set no one wants. Truly a pariah set... Aptly named. Lol. But that's not the point. With the sheer amount of dailies I did, I was atleast able to get trinimacs set. After that month, I got so bored I just gave up on that crap.

Now imagine a new player with just 1 or 2 toons. God forbid they actually find some useful v16 set piece, they still have to battle an RNG so insanely thick that they are sure to get a crappy trait..... I know tons of people who dont even bother with BOP sets cos getting one complete set is next to impossible. And why do it when crafted sets are almost as good. Sure you might to 10% less DPS but you save about 1000000000% more time and work......

Why do the DEVs keep making cool new sets that 80% of the player base is never even going to bother farming or trying? Maybe lots of people are and I'm wrong, but everytime I see a BOP set after wrothgar and orsinium, I just go screw that imma pass. The last 2 BOP sets that I farmed are spell power cure and trinimacs of which I both have perfect sets of. The amount of work it required though, was insane. And repeating pieces that I find CANT EVEN BE SOLD to reward me for my time. I just decon them.

Now with the BOP trading coming soon, this problem will be slightly elevated for group-content farmed items. But I doubt it will fix the BOP items found in the world like wrothgar sets... So we are going to have a huge portion of the player base who wont even get to try it before level-cap increases. So all that time DEVS spent making these new sets is going to get pissed down the loo.

The only things that should be BOP are maelstrom weapons and master weapons. Stop with the BOP sets.... They arent that OP. Just let people who can farm it make money off them and those who dont have the time (or the experience) to farm them buy it. This will boost the economy and let everyone have fun.

#stoptheBOPmadness

Well written and thought out! I totally agree.

Idea: BoP should only limit other folks from wearing armor, not working on them/deconning them. There should be another new level (highest level) of crafter with the ability to change traits on BoP sets, just not use them. This would:
1. make crafting more meaningful
2. spark interest back into these "crap" sets (as many say)

Use Inspiration Points to determine who are the dedicated, high level crafters and give them this ability. I stopped crafting for other players like almost a year ago. Right now, it's not profitable to offer services. no one wants to pay anymore. Additionally, its way too easy to become a high level crafter. It should have to be something you have to maintain not just attain. What's point of doing daily writs? Rewards are not worth it. Farming gets you all the mats you will ever need and nobody uses Glass styles anymore. I'm lucky if I make 2k on a Glass motif. Anyway, doing daily writs could also be a prerequisite for holding a crafter with the ability to alter traits.

willymchilybily · July 2016

IMO....
RNG is Bad.
BOP is fine but executed far too frequently for sets that are worse, similar or marginally better at best.
the OP has the right of it BOP for monster sets and master/maelstrom weapons, only.

It costs a LOT of gold materials to upgrade all your gear to legendary/gold. The cost of upgrading another set you like to all gold is already a grind barrier, and the time spent collecting it. i don't think anyone gets enough legendary mats to be able to splash out 56 of them per character every DLC.

You don't need to add in the extra artificial grind barriers which BOP creates, by preventing people purchasing those final pieces they haven't had drop.

The extra barrier should be getting BIS traits, farming upgrade mats. So you can still try a set out. and see if you like it and want to then grind out mats for legendary and swap out the sub optimal traits.

jzholloway · July 2016

If it was just a grind, BoP would be no big deal - add the layer of RNG and its almost a worthless endeavor. Yes, some people out there have their perfect setup for Scathing Mage or Spell Power Cure... some even have Alkosh in every trait they want, yet the majority of us do not. As an example, I typically run Sanctum Ophidia and Maw or Lorkhaj multiple times every night - (granted on normal). I have two Alkosh pieces (while a buddy last night got two Alkosh pieces, two Moondancer pieces and a Ebon ring - in one go). One is divines, the other is well fitted. I have three Vicious Ophidian pieces - two are divines (yay), one is sturdy. I have yet to have a piece of viper jewelry drop (I know, BoE, but still), and I am overloaded with Eternal Yokuda... The point is, not only does the RNG involved in the grind suck - though I get that - the RNG on top of the grind makes it suck even more. We ran SO on normal 10 times on Friday - I got one set piece in divines, the others were well fitted, sturdy, prosperous and reinforced (on one piece). I did get two rings and a necklace (Knightmare ring and necklace, Dreugh King slayer ring). I run MoL, I get Worm pieces - reinforced. I get Hircine pieces, well fitted. I Finally get a Moondancer, Lunar Bastion or Alkosh piece... well fitted.

I'm glad that there are some people who can put 50+ hours a week into this game... problem is, they aren't even completing these sets in a way that will benefit them. Again, some people do simply get lucky, but most of us do not. When BiS for a stam dps is TBS and Vicious Ophidian (or Viper) meaning at least one set we have to grind for, fight RNG between the set we want and 5 other sets, then fight RNG for traits, it feels like a lost cause. Same can be said for healers (SPC/Worm), Sorcs (Scathing), Tanks (Ebon/Alkosh). It's bad enough monster sets drop in training, well fitted and prosperous.. its bad enough we have to run SO, MoL, plus dailies (and maybe no daily vet dungeons) every day to try and complete a set. Couple that with traits and its terrible.

SolarCat02 · July 2016

Heck, I would be happy if the Wrothgar sets had a higher chance to drop in CP160 than all the CP150 junk I got every time I did them. This issue won't be fixed with the trade-among-group change, or the retrait suggestion.

If this were fixed, I would consider running the Wrothgar dailies again. As it is, there's no point, and anytime I convince myself "It can't really be that bad" the CP150 decon trash with no CP160 in sight reminds me to stay away.

jzholloway · July 2016

I still run Wrothgar dailies... on one toon, and I think the only reason I do it is because I am bored waiting to run a trial or something. Getting cp150 gear is a total slap in the face. Remember when we all complained about the Undaunted Chest? This week - 7 dailies (I had a world boss one left over from Saturday) I have gotten one piece of cp160 gear, the rest were blue cp150. I sold them, no need to decon, I got plenty of mats. Because of this, plus the BoP and the ectra RNG, Wrothgar is becoming the new Craglorn. We go there to farm materials, and that is about it.

Normal MoL and SO have also become "boring." On top of being pretty easy, we all continue to get the same worthless crap we always do, and on top of that the traits make it even more worthless. I get the good stuff drops more in Vet - and I am on a vMoL progression team, but considering that only like 4 teams on PS4/NA have beaten vMol - and a lot of those teams had the same players just different characters, I don't see us farming that anytime soon.

VWGT and vICP, along with vCoA have been nerfed, and the drops rates of gear increased for ICP and WGT, yet the traits still seem to suck. Again, some people do get lucky, but to have sets that are considered BiS and a "requirement" for a lot of guilds/teams running the hardest content, a lot of people are stuck behind an RNG grind that adds another layer of RNG - and this is true for any arena where you have to grind for gear. Its not just hoping for a drop, its hoping for a drop of SPC over something else, then hoping that when you get that drop its a decent trait.

I for one understand that an MMO is not designed for instant gratification, however the layers upon layers of RNG and grinding seems a little excessive, especially when a lot of the gear is "necessary."

I do agree with a BoP for monster sets, MA weapons and the eventual return of Master Weapons to prominence. Everything else, especially the IC stuff which is almost a year old, should be BoE.

tinythinker · July 2016

Master weapons and Maelstrom weapons I get as something special that people earn and feel good about being able to have. Same for other pieces that come in some highly effective sets. Other gear though just seems silly as BOP. Being able to trade within your group for BoP is a good step to take, but how many players try to farm CP160 version of Elemental Succession, Winterborn, or Hunt Leader from vMA?

I mean, sure, everyone grinds for Hunt Leader, because you can't run the popular stam Sorc and stam NB metas without it

, but still. And those who run vMA looking for the perfect weapon drop get all of those set pieces and they can't even sell them for inflated prices to people who can't or won't bother with running that content?

Maybe ZOS thinks all of the BoP gear in the game is just so great it will lure people into buying DLC and keep them grinding the content, but for some of it that's just not true. Some of that gear needs a buff, an increased drop rate, or conversion to BoE. If it's BoP it needs to be drool-worthy, even if it just offers a really cool yet effective alternative way to play; otherwise it's a waste of time. I can see some the outlier sets as kind of offering that, but there are some head-scratchers too.

Mush55 · July 2016

Bop is not the problem, it's the crappy traits that hurt .

Nothing like having 2 sets of scathing mage in well fitted, training, and preposterous traits.

2 full sets that are virtually useless

Personofsecrets · July 2016

The only saving grace about many BOP sets is that nobody wants to use them anyhow. That is why I anticipate the next DLC - pretty much all of the gear is crappy so I wont have to waste my time grinding for something new.

AlnilamE · July 2016

OP, I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but then you dissed Pariah...

I think the problem is that people have this expectation of the "perfect" build/gear. It HAS to be 160, it HAS to be the "perfect" trait (which actually varies depending on who you ask), and it HAS to drop for you in a reasonable amount of time.

No, it doesn't. If you are trying out a new build (to see if farming for the perfect traits is worth it), not having whatever your ideal traits are is fine. And as much as you diss traits like well-fitted, dodge-roll cost reduction is useful in some situations.

Look at all the PvP folks complaining that Impenetrable is no longer in the loot table for boss sets gained from Dungeons/Undaunted chests.

The other thing to consider is that if they do remove what you consider "junk" traits and "useless 150 gear" that's not going to magically turn those drops into your "perfect-trait 160 gear" instead. It will just turn them into blue non-set decon junk. Why are so many Undaunted shoulder pieces Prosperous now? Because you are guaranteed a shoulder from the gold chest.

Now, all that said, I agree that more things should be BoE, and they could certainly make the Wrothgar sets (which you can also get in Cyrodiil and IC, btw) BoE like they did with Worm/Hircine/Ebon (remember that those were BoP sets in vet dungeons). But if they do that, then count on the drop rate being reduced at least by half at least.

Another thing, someone mentioned a "staff of Alkosh". I got a random piece the other day (I think it was a resto staff of Agility, but it could have been something else) and I joked about it being useless and a friend who is very much into theorycrafting said that there was actually a build that used it for something.

So really, thinking outside the box and trying out different things is a good thing sometimes.

daemonios · July 2016

Let's be realistic for a moment. The reason for the BoP idiocy is the B2P model. There were a few BoP sets before this, but it really picked up with IC, then Wrothgar, TG and DB. They want the gear to remain behind the respective paywalls. Follow the money, people.

Thing is, this design decision coupled with the trait system and the RNG system basically screws over all players alike, not just the non-DLC-buying scrubs. It's shameful that they haven't come up with ANYTHING to address this, but I guess as long as we continue to act as sheep and cheer loudly for the next skin-showing dress or repainted tiger mount ZOS will be happy.

UltimaJoe777 · July 2016

daemonios wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Many of the best sets available are BoP, and for good reason. These items are generally more potent than most others, even the ones BoE as opposed to crafted. Of course there are good BoE and craftable sets too but the thing is the best stuff needs to be BoP to make people work for them, otherwise anyone can buy the best items in the game with gold they probably got from a rich friend, assuming the item wasn't sold for only 100k.

Sure many see it as a pain in the ass but remove BoP and everyone will start running around with the same ***. Too much in this game is so easy to get, let's not make it all that way. Besides, BoP item trading within your group when you get it is coming so you at least have that to look forward to.

Bulls***.

Just yesterday I went on a rant in these here forums because after 70+ runs and opening 18 vault chests I still only have 2 divines Scathing Mage pieces from vICP. That is not considering all the runs I did before I started hoarding the shackles, and I started hoarding them because I felt the loot system was sh** and wanted to try and wait for some changes which never came. I'm in a similar situation with Spell Power Cure, although for that set I'm only missing 1 piece in divines.

I personally can't stand vMA. I just can't do it, I'm bored to death after 20 minutes. But I do know dozens of people who've farmed the hell out of that hell hole and still don't have whatever weapons they've been looking for.

This is not "difficult do obtain" gear. It's random-to-obtain-and-you-might-never-get-it gear. Completely different. I'm at a point where I think all gear should simply be BoE, no exceptions. In fact, I'm at a point where I've already cancelled my sub and the fact that ZOS has yet to address this issue in any way whatsoever doesn't fill me with eagerness to renew when my game time ends.

Sorry to hear you're so bored. Seems to me though that changing the method of obtaining gear would not help you because you're just bored of the game itself period.

tinythinker · July 2016

AlnilamE wrote: »

I think the problem is that people have this expectation of the "perfect" build/gear. It HAS to be 160, it HAS to be the "perfect" trait (which actually varies depending on who you ask), and it HAS to drop for you in a reasonable amount of time.

No, it doesn't. If you are trying out a new build (to see if farming for the perfect traits is worth it), not having whatever your ideal traits are is fine. And as much as you diss traits like well-fitted, dodge-roll cost reduction is useful in some situations.

Now, all that said, I agree that more things should be BoE.

Well, that's just it. I'm not going to want to grind forever to for a set just to try it when the drop rates are bad and the traits are so unreliable. If the drop rate is boosted or some of these alternative sets go BoE then more people would try different things. But BoP requires people to buy the DLC, so that won't likely change, which leaves things like increasing the drop rate of the higher level pieces.

AlnilamE · July 2016

daemonios wrote: »

Let's be realistic for a moment. The reason for the BoP idiocy is the B2P model. There were a few BoP sets before this, but it really picked up with IC, then Wrothgar, TG and DB. They want the gear to remain behind the respective paywalls. Follow the money, people.

Thing is, this design decision coupled with the trait system and the RNG system basically screws over all players alike, not just the non-DLC-buying scrubs. It's shameful that they haven't come up with ANYTHING to address this, but I guess as long as we continue to act as sheep and cheer loudly for the next skin-showing dress or repainted tiger mount ZOS will be happy.

I'm not up-to-date on the latest TG and DB sets, other than the MoL sets (Alkosh, Moondancer and Twilight), which ones are new BoP sets?

daemonios · July 2016

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Many of the best sets available are BoP, and for good reason. These items are generally more potent than most others, even the ones BoE as opposed to crafted. Of course there are good BoE and craftable sets too but the thing is the best stuff needs to be BoP to make people work for them, otherwise anyone can buy the best items in the game with gold they probably got from a rich friend, assuming the item wasn't sold for only 100k.

Sure many see it as a pain in the ass but remove BoP and everyone will start running around with the same ***. Too much in this game is so easy to get, let's not make it all that way. Besides, BoP item trading within your group when you get it is coming so you at least have that to look forward to.

Bulls***.

Just yesterday I went on a rant in these here forums because after 70+ runs and opening 18 vault chests I still only have 2 divines Scathing Mage pieces from vICP. That is not considering all the runs I did before I started hoarding the shackles, and I started hoarding them because I felt the loot system was sh** and wanted to try and wait for some changes which never came. I'm in a similar situation with Spell Power Cure, although for that set I'm only missing 1 piece in divines.

I personally can't stand vMA. I just can't do it, I'm bored to death after 20 minutes. But I do know dozens of people who've farmed the hell out of that hell hole and still don't have whatever weapons they've been looking for.

This is not "difficult do obtain" gear. It's random-to-obtain-and-you-might-never-get-it gear. Completely different. I'm at a point where I think all gear should simply be BoE, no exceptions. In fact, I'm at a point where I've already cancelled my sub and the fact that ZOS has yet to address this issue in any way whatsoever doesn't fill me with eagerness to renew when my game time ends.

Sorry to hear you're so bored. Seems to me though that changing the method of obtaining gear would not help you because you're just bored of the game itself period.

I'm not bored, I never said I'm bored. Not for this reason, anyway. I am frustrated, which is a different thing. I don't mind running vWGT, vICP, vSO and vMoL with my guildies just for the fun of it. I do mind, though, that for all my effort, I haven't been able to complete a SPC set, or a Scathing Mage set, or a Moondancer set, or an Infallible Aether set... and that I might NEVER complete them, because that IS a possibility under this system.

UltimaJoe777 · July 2016

daemonios wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Many of the best sets available are BoP, and for good reason. These items are generally more potent than most others, even the ones BoE as opposed to crafted. Of course there are good BoE and craftable sets too but the thing is the best stuff needs to be BoP to make people work for them, otherwise anyone can buy the best items in the game with gold they probably got from a rich friend, assuming the item wasn't sold for only 100k.

Sure many see it as a pain in the ass but remove BoP and everyone will start running around with the same ***. Too much in this game is so easy to get, let's not make it all that way. Besides, BoP item trading within your group when you get it is coming so you at least have that to look forward to.

Bulls***.

Just yesterday I went on a rant in these here forums because after 70+ runs and opening 18 vault chests I still only have 2 divines Scathing Mage pieces from vICP. That is not considering all the runs I did before I started hoarding the shackles, and I started hoarding them because I felt the loot system was sh** and wanted to try and wait for some changes which never came. I'm in a similar situation with Spell Power Cure, although for that set I'm only missing 1 piece in divines.

I personally can't stand vMA. I just can't do it, I'm bored to death after 20 minutes. But I do know dozens of people who've farmed the hell out of that hell hole and still don't have whatever weapons they've been looking for.

This is not "difficult do obtain" gear. It's random-to-obtain-and-you-might-never-get-it gear. Completely different. I'm at a point where I think all gear should simply be BoE, no exceptions. In fact, I'm at a point where I've already cancelled my sub and the fact that ZOS has yet to address this issue in any way whatsoever doesn't fill me with eagerness to renew when my game time ends.

Sorry to hear you're so bored. Seems to me though that changing the method of obtaining gear would not help you because you're just bored of the game itself period.

I'm not bored, I never said I'm bored. Not for this reason, anyway. I am frustrated, which is a different thing. I don't mind running vWGT, vICP, vSO and vMoL with my guildies just for the fun of it. I do mind, though, that for all my effort, I haven't been able to complete a SPC set, or a Scathing Mage set, or a Moondancer set, or an Infallible Aether set... and that I might NEVER complete them, because that IS a possibility under this system.

I can definitely understand the frustration over the traits since I tend to see certain ones I don't want pretty much all the time too. I believe they've done this to make it harder to get the more desirable ones and thus make them more valuable when you finally do, or that you just need to be really lucky lol but yeah couldn't hurt for them to look over the ratio tables and even them all out more. Even if they did though it'd still be a 1 in 8 (9 if Nirnhoned is involved) chance each and every time. Prosperous definitely needs drops because it's useless period but the rest still have merit even if slight. I could understand dropping Training though.

For the record though I don't mind not getting the right trait so much. I like the RNG challenge in fact because I like having stuff that actually means something to me due to how hard and/or long I had to work for it

jzholloway · July 2016

Personofsecrets wrote: »

The only saving grace about many BOP sets is that nobody wants to use them anyhow. That is why I anticipate the next DLC - pretty much all of the gear is crappy so I wont have to waste my time grinding for something new.

People are looking for the "perfect" weapon because a) they simply want it, or b) it is considered BiS and they want to run end trials (vMoL / vSO)

MA weapons are considered BiS for a lot of classes (plus Master Bow)
Scathing Mage is considered one BiS for sorcs
SPC and Twilight Remedy are BiS for healers
Vicious Ophidian is considered BiS for stam dps
Alkosh is considered an almost must for one tank in vMoL - along with a tank en Ebon + both running Tava's

So no, not all the BoP gear is crappy and a lot of people want them

AlnilamE · July 2016

daemonios wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Many of the best sets available are BoP, and for good reason. These items are generally more potent than most others, even the ones BoE as opposed to crafted. Of course there are good BoE and craftable sets too but the thing is the best stuff needs to be BoP to make people work for them, otherwise anyone can buy the best items in the game with gold they probably got from a rich friend, assuming the item wasn't sold for only 100k.

Sure many see it as a pain in the ass but remove BoP and everyone will start running around with the same ***. Too much in this game is so easy to get, let's not make it all that way. Besides, BoP item trading within your group when you get it is coming so you at least have that to look forward to.

Bulls***.

Just yesterday I went on a rant in these here forums because after 70+ runs and opening 18 vault chests I still only have 2 divines Scathing Mage pieces from vICP. That is not considering all the runs I did before I started hoarding the shackles, and I started hoarding them because I felt the loot system was sh** and wanted to try and wait for some changes which never came. I'm in a similar situation with Spell Power Cure, although for that set I'm only missing 1 piece in divines.

I personally can't stand vMA. I just can't do it, I'm bored to death after 20 minutes. But I do know dozens of people who've farmed the hell out of that hell hole and still don't have whatever weapons they've been looking for.

This is not "difficult do obtain" gear. It's random-to-obtain-and-you-might-never-get-it gear. Completely different. I'm at a point where I think all gear should simply be BoE, no exceptions. In fact, I'm at a point where I've already cancelled my sub and the fact that ZOS has yet to address this issue in any way whatsoever doesn't fill me with eagerness to renew when my game time ends.

Sorry to hear you're so bored. Seems to me though that changing the method of obtaining gear would not help you because you're just bored of the game itself period.

I'm not bored, I never said I'm bored. Not for this reason, anyway. I am frustrated, which is a different thing. I don't mind running vWGT, vICP, vSO and vMoL with my guildies just for the fun of it. I do mind, though, that for all my effort, I haven't been able to complete a SPC set, or a Scathing Mage set, or a Moondancer set, or an Infallible Aether set... and that I might NEVER complete them, because that IS a possibility under this system.

Have you really not completed these sets period or just not completed them in the trait you want?

UltimaJoe777 · July 2016

AlnilamE wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Many of the best sets available are BoP, and for good reason. These items are generally more potent than most others, even the ones BoE as opposed to crafted. Of course there are good BoE and craftable sets too but the thing is the best stuff needs to be BoP to make people work for them, otherwise anyone can buy the best items in the game with gold they probably got from a rich friend, assuming the item wasn't sold for only 100k.

Sure many see it as a pain in the ass but remove BoP and everyone will start running around with the same ***. Too much in this game is so easy to get, let's not make it all that way. Besides, BoP item trading within your group when you get it is coming so you at least have that to look forward to.

Bulls***.

Just yesterday I went on a rant in these here forums because after 70+ runs and opening 18 vault chests I still only have 2 divines Scathing Mage pieces from vICP. That is not considering all the runs I did before I started hoarding the shackles, and I started hoarding them because I felt the loot system was sh** and wanted to try and wait for some changes which never came. I'm in a similar situation with Spell Power Cure, although for that set I'm only missing 1 piece in divines.

I personally can't stand vMA. I just can't do it, I'm bored to death after 20 minutes. But I do know dozens of people who've farmed the hell out of that hell hole and still don't have whatever weapons they've been looking for.

This is not "difficult do obtain" gear. It's random-to-obtain-and-you-might-never-get-it gear. Completely different. I'm at a point where I think all gear should simply be BoE, no exceptions. In fact, I'm at a point where I've already cancelled my sub and the fact that ZOS has yet to address this issue in any way whatsoever doesn't fill me with eagerness to renew when my game time ends.

Sorry to hear you're so bored. Seems to me though that changing the method of obtaining gear would not help you because you're just bored of the game itself period.

I'm not bored, I never said I'm bored. Not for this reason, anyway. I am frustrated, which is a different thing. I don't mind running vWGT, vICP, vSO and vMoL with my guildies just for the fun of it. I do mind, though, that for all my effort, I haven't been able to complete a SPC set, or a Scathing Mage set, or a Moondancer set, or an Infallible Aether set... and that I might NEVER complete them, because that IS a possibility under this system.

Have you really not completed these sets period or just not completed them in the trait you want?

If he hasn't completed them at all yet then he really did get fed up with the grind/farm lol

daemonios · July 2016

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Many of the best sets available are BoP, and for good reason. These items are generally more potent than most others, even the ones BoE as opposed to crafted. Of course there are good BoE and craftable sets too but the thing is the best stuff needs to be BoP to make people work for them, otherwise anyone can buy the best items in the game with gold they probably got from a rich friend, assuming the item wasn't sold for only 100k.

Sure many see it as a pain in the ass but remove BoP and everyone will start running around with the same ***. Too much in this game is so easy to get, let's not make it all that way. Besides, BoP item trading within your group when you get it is coming so you at least have that to look forward to.

Bulls***.

Just yesterday I went on a rant in these here forums because after 70+ runs and opening 18 vault chests I still only have 2 divines Scathing Mage pieces from vICP. That is not considering all the runs I did before I started hoarding the shackles, and I started hoarding them because I felt the loot system was sh** and wanted to try and wait for some changes which never came. I'm in a similar situation with Spell Power Cure, although for that set I'm only missing 1 piece in divines.

I personally can't stand vMA. I just can't do it, I'm bored to death after 20 minutes. But I do know dozens of people who've farmed the hell out of that hell hole and still don't have whatever weapons they've been looking for.

This is not "difficult do obtain" gear. It's random-to-obtain-and-you-might-never-get-it gear. Completely different. I'm at a point where I think all gear should simply be BoE, no exceptions. In fact, I'm at a point where I've already cancelled my sub and the fact that ZOS has yet to address this issue in any way whatsoever doesn't fill me with eagerness to renew when my game time ends.

Sorry to hear you're so bored. Seems to me though that changing the method of obtaining gear would not help you because you're just bored of the game itself period.

I'm not bored, I never said I'm bored. Not for this reason, anyway. I am frustrated, which is a different thing. I don't mind running vWGT, vICP, vSO and vMoL with my guildies just for the fun of it. I do mind, though, that for all my effort, I haven't been able to complete a SPC set, or a Scathing Mage set, or a Moondancer set, or an Infallible Aether set... and that I might NEVER complete them, because that IS a possibility under this system.

I can definitely understand the frustration over the traits since I tend to see certain ones I don't want pretty much all the time too. I believe they've done this to make it harder to get the more desirable ones and thus make them more valuable when you finally do, or that you just need to be really lucky lol but yeah couldn't hurt for them to look over the ratio tables and even them all out more. Even if they did though it'd still be a 1 in 8 (9 if Nirnhoned is involved) chance each and every time. Prosperous definitely needs drops because it's useless period but the rest still have merit even if slight. I could understand dropping Training though.

For the record though I don't mind not getting the right trait so much. I like the RNG challenge in fact because I like having stuff that actually means something to me due to how hard and/or long I had to work for it

I wouldn't mind not getting the right trait if other traits were any useful. Take a magicka sorc DD, for example, which is my main character. The only trait that matters is divines, period. Infused might be a poor second place for the added resources (only for large pieces, mind you), but every other trait is just crap. Plain and simple. The way combat is designed right now, if you start going for non-optimal pieces your DPS takes a huge hit. So tell me, what do I do with well-fitted, training, prosperous, sturdy, reinforced or even infused pieces? They're just decon fodder.

Also you can clean up the loot tables as much as you want, but as long as every time you loot you have a clean slate regarding what you may get, there is the possibility that you'll never get the piece you want. Ever.

Danksta · July 2016

Yea, not sure what they're thinking about with all the BoP sets. In the case of Trinimac, I've deconned enough VR16/CP160 divines chest pieces to make someone looking for those pieces cry. Hell, it makes me want to when I think of the gold I lost out on if they'd been BoE.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · July 2016

Phinix1 wrote: »

RNG traits on RNG drops of RNG armor types... BoP.

Worst aspect of the game IMO.

Hopefully they give crafters the ability to re-trait and re-style gear. That would fix everything.

This, a thousand times this. I truly believe that performance issues aside, this is the games fatal flaw. I have seen it literally destroy entire raid guilds. Min/maxing in this game is not based on skill, it is based on luck. News flash, trail runners live to min/max and push scores. This system makes that close to impossible.

Introducing a trait change mechanic would be the best thing ever for this game. I do not think it should be trivial to accomplish, but it should be possible. I think it should be on par with the resource cost of making something gold, or maybe like 50% of it. What if it took 4 Dreugh Wax and 100 sapphires to make something divines. Wouldn't that be cool if sapphires, emeralds, and diamonds actually had some value? Just spit balling here. It would diminish a mindless grinds and give us flexibility to experiment with our builds.

The counter argument is that it will stop people rerunning content. To that I say, I have done that times three already with WGT, Prison and VMA. If the new dungeons are a grind on par with these, I simply wont do it again. Running the same dungeon on repeat 100+ times is not fun.

DRXHarbinger · July 2016

Legoless wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

I know tons of people who dont even bother with BOP sets cos getting one complete set is next to impossible.

This. Aside from monster helms, I don't think I know anyone who even uses non-crafted sets.

You don't know a healer with SPC or a magblade with scathing???

FearlessOne_2014 · July 2016

Vangy wrote: »

Hey friends,

ESO has tons of nice new sets that im sure everyone would love to try. But here's the problem,

1. 100s of layers of RNG.
2. Followed by BOP.

Its a monstrosity..... Take wrothgar sets for example. I remember when orsinium first came out, I was so excited to try out the new sets. So I had 6 toons. At max level in gold gear. So I did 6*6 dailies a day for about a month. I got a full set of trinimacs, some briar crap pieces and the pariah set no one wants. Truly a pariah set... Aptly named. Lol. But that's not the point. With the sheer amount of dailies I did, I was atleast able to get trinimacs set. After that month, I got so bored I just gave up on that crap.

Now imagine a new player with just 1 or 2 toons. God forbid they actually find some useful v16 set piece, they still have to battle an RNG so insanely thick that they are sure to get a crappy trait..... I know tons of people who dont even bother with BOP sets cos getting one complete set is next to impossible. And why do it when crafted sets are almost as good. Sure you might to 10% less DPS but you save about 1000000000% more time and work......

Why do the DEVs keep making cool new sets that 80% of the player base is never even going to bother farming or trying? Maybe lots of people are and I'm wrong, but everytime I see a BOP set after wrothgar and orsinium, I just go screw that imma pass. The last 2 BOP sets that I farmed are spell power cure and trinimacs of which I both have perfect sets of. The amount of work it required though, was insane. And repeating pieces that I find CANT EVEN BE SOLD to reward me for my time. I just decon them.

Now with the BOP trading coming soon, this problem will be slightly elevated for group-content farmed items. But I doubt it will fix the BOP items found in the world like wrothgar sets... So we are going to have a huge portion of the player base who wont even get to try it before level-cap increases. So all that time DEVS spent making these new sets is going to get pissed down the loo.

The only things that should be BOP are maelstrom weapons and master weapons. Stop with the BOP sets.... They arent that OP. Just let people who can farm it make money off them and those who dont have the time (or the experience) to farm them buy it. This will boost the economy and let everyone have fun.

#stoptheBOPmadness

Yup RNG BoP items are another reason I don't really play much ESO these days. Watched my ex-buddies get 3 Kena helm each in 20 vWGT completes and I didn't get my first one till around the 60th complete of that place. Since I've heard about the tales of headache and RNG in Maelstrom. I will not even touch that place with a ten foot pole.

One of the few things that could posiable pull back to ESO full time is, carfters being able to retrait BoP items if not ZOS make a token-based system to replace the current RNG even if it was to take me 20 runs to get the items with tokens atleast I KNOW that my skill and time is valued and will be rewarded vs now me skill and time means nothing to ZOS's RNG.

Which brings me to my question. WHY THE *** DOES MY ACCOUNT HAVE MUCH LOWER RNG LUCK THEN MOST OF THE PLAYERS IN THIS GAME, LIKE WHAT THE LITERAL *** IS THIS ABOUT ZOS!? Ok angry venting time is over continue with yalls programing.

hingarthuub17_ESO · July 2016

More cp150 garbage on multiple toons. This [xxx] has to end.

Phinix1 · July 2016

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Many of the best sets available are BoP, and for good reason. These items are generally more potent than most others, even the ones BoE as opposed to crafted. Of course there are good BoE and craftable sets too but the thing is the best stuff needs to be BoP to make people work for them, otherwise anyone can buy the best items in the game with gold they probably got from a rich friend, assuming the item wasn't sold for only 100k.

Sure many see it as a pain in the ass but remove BoP and everyone will start running around with the same ***. Too much in this game is so easy to get, let's not make it all that way. Besides, BoP item trading within your group when you get it is coming so you at least have that to look forward to.

There is a difference between time and effort investment required for top tier gear and a straight up bad design, and ZOS's RNG on RNG on RNG where you could literally grind every day for 5 years and never get a full set in the traits you want is undeniably a bad design, period.

There needs to be some balance mechanic where you can save up to be guarantee one item of the set you want every X period of time. Make that time a month if you have to, but there has to be some sort of sanity check on this never-ending slot machine.

Cyrodiil vendor really isn't a solution either because 80%+ of the sets are desired in Divines and you can only get infused or Impenetrable.

People have been asking for a token system since I can remember. I don't know why ZOS is so obstinate about it but I can't think of any system more universally hated in this game than the current RNG system.

It isn't an investment when you have no guarantee of an eventual payoff.

That's not being nay-say-ish or negative it is just being realistic.

Leogon · July 2016

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