Father_Of_Vape wrote: »I have talked with the person perma banned for this. He was given no warning that this was officially labeled an exploit by ZOS, since he does not read the forums very much and it was literally communicated like 0 times to anyone who does NOT read the forums a lot. He was given no warning before he was banned. Just instant
Just some common misconceptions about this person to clear his name a tiny bit since I have talked to him
Not banned for griefing
No he did not use a friend to gap close in
There you have it folks ZOS takes exploits very seriously thats why they let it go live
Just another day at Zenimax Studios
http://imgur.com/Ev88FUS
"And they will do nothing"
Read it again.
"And they will do nothing"
Correct me if I'm wrong (which I'm not) but it appears... that they did something...
Yes, let's place the blame on players and not on ZOS. It's not like it's their job to eliminate bugs or anything.Sandman929 wrote: »Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »Why should I move skills around that I've had in place for years in the off chance a bar swap fails?Sandman929 wrote: »Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »I find myself looking for people to beam and needing to heal their attacks.rfennell_ESO wrote: »Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »On my Templar, I have Healing Ward in slot 3 and then Toppling Charge in the same spot on my other bar. There have been a number of times where swap has failed and I've charged someone instead of casting ward. With lag, this can happen.How does one go about looking up and pressing your gap closer hotkey accidentally? Usually I'm aware enough to know what keybinds are my range attacks/defensive abilities.
So you find yourself looking up from the postern house steps and pressing healing ward a lot?
Maybe the solution here is a bit obvious...but wouldn't moving one of those skills have prevented this "accident"?
So you don't accidentally exploit a game mechanic that is broken. Because it was accidental, right?
Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »Yes, let's place the blame on players and not on ZOS. It's not like it's their job to eliminate bugs or anything.Sandman929 wrote: »Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »Why should I move skills around that I've had in place for years in the off chance a bar swap fails?Sandman929 wrote: »Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »I find myself looking for people to beam and needing to heal their attacks.rfennell_ESO wrote: »Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »On my Templar, I have Healing Ward in slot 3 and then Toppling Charge in the same spot on my other bar. There have been a number of times where swap has failed and I've charged someone instead of casting ward. With lag, this can happen.How does one go about looking up and pressing your gap closer hotkey accidentally? Usually I'm aware enough to know what keybinds are my range attacks/defensive abilities.
So you find yourself looking up from the postern house steps and pressing healing ward a lot?
Maybe the solution here is a bit obvious...but wouldn't moving one of those skills have prevented this "accident"?
So you don't accidentally exploit a game mechanic that is broken. Because it was accidental, right?
ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Hey everyone,
We are working on making some tweaks to certain gap closers that players are using to bypass core keep capture mechanics.
We are aware of the problem and are working towards a solution. No ETA.
And trust me, something is being done that will make people think twice before "accidentally" jumping up a wall
Father_Of_Vape wrote: »...Just some common misconceptions about this person to clear his name a tiny bit since I have talked to him...
rfennell_ESO wrote: »You all have voiced your opinions but really need a reality check and need to chill. Anything in this game that is deemed to "not working as intended" is an exploit. I'm sure every last one of you at this point has used something that wasn't working as intended. Malubeth, nirn back in 1.6, the axe bleed....the list goes on and on. I don't really blame the players for this issue. It's 100% zos and it's sad that it takes them 3-6 months to "fix" said exploits.
@Lyar09 while I agree with you that at some point everyone has used an exploit, I disagree with you that it's ALL Zenimax's issue. Yes, Zenimax made the skill and has to fix it but It's a personal choice to use a skill that a player knows full well shouldn't be doing what it does. Just because it's in the game not working correctly doesn't mean that we should use it. That's a choice that we have to make.
Any player making the choice to use the exploits is taking that chance that they could possibly get action taken against then. Possibly even banned. They know that full well going into their choices and still choose do use the exploit. I don't feel sorry for them. I pity them really. That they had to make that decision when they could have easily chosen not to. A bunch of us in the game don't use these broken mechanics for that specific reason. It's our choice.
Fixing these kinds of things take time unfortunately. The problem is we live in a day and age where we expect things to be done NOW, NOW, NOW. Waiting for something is just unheard of and a burden to us. I am with you on the game fixes and wish they could be done sooner than later but the fact remains, it will get fixed when it's ready and been tested.
Yah the main issue is the players that have the goal of using exploits or anything for an advantage.
Only point about your post past that is direction. In this case direction toward one of them, if you know what I mean. They (he) don't care, they will keep doing it and doing it.
The reason why they all fall back on it's 100% ZOS' fault (or in their case ZOS's fault because they don't understand grammar at all, even in their own names).. well the reason simply is that if it's 100% ZOS' fault is 0% their fault. Blame shifted, innocence established.
Fact is that those that exploit as policy need to go. They need to be banned and they need be banned permanently. They are well aware of what they are doing, made evident by their endless attempting to shift blame from themselves to anything else.
You are constantly insinuating that I am a cheater. Get over yourself. I haven't once used this exploit or any for that matter, yet you continue to call me out. Still waiting on the so called shuffle exploit video by the way. Haven't heard much about shuffle these days and there were no changes in any patch notes about it. What's your claim now? This guilt by association mentality you have is immature and asinine.
What's your deal? Did I 1vX you or something?
At this point I'm convinced you never will see evidence of people "shuffle exploiting" because it never existed, it was just an excuse for people like him to cling to to try and explain why they can't kill strong Templars. It was just the most obvious thing people like Rfennell could come up with,"he uses this and I don't" so somehow this is the culprit. Tons of videos about ult hacking etc came out, even from people who've barely used YouTube. But no videos of people shuffle dodging 100% of attacks thrown at them.
He spent months in the shuffle / animation cancel threads, trying to argue without any evidence or even logic. Blatantly throwing up misinformation and an obvious lack of understanding. Once the CE thing came to light he used it as the opportunity to switch gears slightly, instead of being blatantly wrong about game mechanics he doesn't understand he switched to spewing misinformation about CE, another topic he has zero experience or understanding in and no authority to comment about.
Unfortunately there is no ban for spewing garbage and misinformation on the forums, so he's free to run around and accuse people without supporting evidence.
Sandman929 wrote: »We are aware of the problem and are working towards a solution. No ETA.
And trust me, something is being done that will make people think twice before "accidentally" jumping up a wall
The worst is when it accidentally happens to several players, and then the game makes them start killing people in the keep accidentally.
I haven't entered pvp yet(well technically I did try it for a couple hours last summer, but I just recently returned to the game). So, I haven't done this. I don't really have a horse in this race. Here's my perspective though:
I probably would have done this. Ambush is a teleport, taking me to an enemy 22m away. There's nothing to indicate to me that I shouldn't be able to use it vertically to get onto a keep wall, assuming the wall is less than 22m high. I would have assumed it was intended functionality. I would -not- have abused a griefer that was clearly trying to let his enemies into his keep this way, and would likely report him for it.
Players decided it was unintended by the developers, cheating, exploiting, etc. From what I can tell, animation canceling is/was seen by many the same way. Developers decided to leave that in, and certainly not punish people for it.
How am I as a player to know what the devs will decide is a punishable exploit and what is fair use of an unintended game mechanic? It sounds like -many- players were doing this. My options would be to give myself a competitive disadvantage by not doing it, feeling stupid later if it turns out the devs decide it's fair game like they did with animation cancelling or to do it and risk being punished for it later, having no clue it was an exploit. As a player, I should -NOT- be put into the position of having to make that choice.
There's clearly details of this that I'm not privy to, and this specific situation won't impact me. I know beforehand that it's punishable, so I won't do it. What of the future though? I'm competitive, and I like to explore the limits of what my character is capable of. How am I to know when I've crossed the line between smart use of game mechanics and exploiting?
The devs need to fix stuff like this -quickly-. They need to issue some type of warning if they are going to be punishing people. I shouldn't have to stumble on a ruling like this in a random forum thread.
Sandman929 wrote: »We are aware of the problem and are working towards a solution. No ETA.
And trust me, something is being done that will make people think twice before "accidentally" jumping up a wall
The worst is when it accidentally happens to several players, and then the game makes them start killing people in the keep accidentally.
if people jump in your keep and you cannot kill them while having all the siege all the respawn and all the npcs you just are a horrible player and the players who kill you without healer support (templar charge does not work) deserve to kill you.you can even tell players in zone to come to your help.
Sandman929 wrote: »We are aware of the problem and are working towards a solution. No ETA.
And trust me, something is being done that will make people think twice before "accidentally" jumping up a wall
The worst is when it accidentally happens to several players, and then the game makes them start killing people in the keep accidentally.
if people jump in your keep and you cannot kill them while having all the siege all the respawn and all the npcs you just are a horrible player and the players who kill you without healer support (templar charge does not work) deserve to kill you.you can even tell players in zone to come to your help.
See the problem here is you are basing the fact that someone with more skill has the right to use illegitimate means to enter an area they know they are not supposed to be in and then kill those players.
You don't get to state it is an accident, and then also state that, welp since i'm here I can kill everyone and because you can't kill me, I deserve to kill you.
Circular logic based on a false premise.
ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Hey everyone,
We are working on making some tweaks to certain gap closers that players are using to bypass core keep capture mechanics.
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom While I appreciate your efforts to fix this exploit, I am concerned in general about how gap closers work, period. There are severe issues with these skills not firing right, even on a 5% grade. Are further fixes in the works to mitigate these issues?
ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Hey everyone,
We are working on making some tweaks to certain gap closers that players are using to bypass core keep capture mechanics. It is not intended that gap closers be used to enter keeps without downing doors and/or walls, or enter areas you otherwise would not be able to without exploiting (below Dolmens, under water, etc.) While we are aware that players are using certain gap closers to do exactly these things, we do considered this behavior an exploit.
If you see another player exploiting in this manner, you can send us videos or other evidence by submitting a customer support ticket, by sending them to anyone on the Community or Moderation team here on the forums, or emailing us at community@elderscrollsonline.com.
Thank you!
Altercator wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Hey everyone,
We are working on making some tweaks to certain gap closers that players are using to bypass core keep capture mechanics. It is not intended that gap closers be used to enter keeps without downing doors and/or walls, or enter areas you otherwise would not be able to without exploiting (below Dolmens, under water, etc.) While we are aware that players are using certain gap closers to do exactly these things, we do considered this behavior an exploit.
If you see another player exploiting in this manner, you can send us videos or other evidence by submitting a customer support ticket, by sending them to anyone on the Community or Moderation team here on the forums, or emailing us at community@elderscrollsonline.com.
Thank you!
Fix your game Zenimax. Stop blaming players for your mistakes.
I agree that ZOS is responsible for fixing this in timely manner and disagree with massively banning people for this, but if we talking about the same guy who was banned permanently, as I understand people were telling him constantly to stop abusing this
I agree that ZOS is responsible for fixing this in timely manner and disagree with massively banning people for this, but if we talking about the same guy who was banned permanently, as I understand people were telling him constantly to stop abusing this , but he continued to do that and then he came here and laughed at ZOS, mocked everyone and , keeping in mind that he was banned earlier( right or wrong ,I dont know), but should've thought twice before abusing obvious not intended game mechanics and then acting dickish about it on the forums. As community we are better off without such a toxic player imo.
Top players and guilds for quite some time treating this game as their personal playground, being selfish at expense of other players fun , never policing themselves. I came to this game as single player and I fell in love with PVP aspect of this game, but in my case , PVP was different 2 years ago. Right now, as a new player you come to Cyro and you constantly being farmed at resources, home keep or somewhere in the middle of nowhere with scroll farming. You can say, why being farmed, dont go there. Right, new players go where they see swords on the map and Cyro is not that populated anymore, like it was for me at the beginning, then fights were all other the place. So they go , where fights are and after constantly dying to seems to be immortals, what do you think chances are that they will come back next time, and if you add stuff like getting into the keeps without breaching walls or other not intended but abused stuff, you can be sure that , not only ZOS is at fault that Cyro has 1.5 active campaigns these days. People need to police themselves, they have to try and see bigger picture and not only what is in front of their noses.
rfennell_ESO wrote: »You all have voiced your opinions but really need a reality check and need to chill. Anything in this game that is deemed to "not working as intended" is an exploit. I'm sure every last one of you at this point has used something that wasn't working as intended. Malubeth, nirn back in 1.6, the axe bleed....the list goes on and on. I don't really blame the players for this issue. It's 100% zos and it's sad that it takes them 3-6 months to "fix" said exploits.
@Lyar09 while I agree with you that at some point everyone has used an exploit, I disagree with you that it's ALL Zenimax's issue. Yes, Zenimax made the skill and has to fix it but It's a personal choice to use a skill that a player knows full well shouldn't be doing what it does. Just because it's in the game not working correctly doesn't mean that we should use it. That's a choice that we have to make.
Any player making the choice to use the exploits is taking that chance that they could possibly get action taken against then. Possibly even banned. They know that full well going into their choices and still choose do use the exploit. I don't feel sorry for them. I pity them really. That they had to make that decision when they could have easily chosen not to. A bunch of us in the game don't use these broken mechanics for that specific reason. It's our choice.
Fixing these kinds of things take time unfortunately. The problem is we live in a day and age where we expect things to be done NOW, NOW, NOW. Waiting for something is just unheard of and a burden to us. I am with you on the game fixes and wish they could be done sooner than later but the fact remains, it will get fixed when it's ready and been tested.
Yah the main issue is the players that have the goal of using exploits or anything for an advantage.
Only point about your post past that is direction. In this case direction toward one of them, if you know what I mean. They (he) don't care, they will keep doing it and doing it.
The reason why they all fall back on it's 100% ZOS' fault (or in their case ZOS's fault because they don't understand grammar at all, even in their own names).. well the reason simply is that if it's 100% ZOS' fault is 0% their fault. Blame shifted, innocence established.
Fact is that those that exploit as policy need to go. They need to be banned and they need be banned permanently. They are well aware of what they are doing, made evident by their endless attempting to shift blame from themselves to anything else.
You are constantly insinuating that I am a cheater. Get over yourself. I haven't once used this exploit or any for that matter, yet you continue to call me out. Still waiting on the so called shuffle exploit video by the way. Haven't heard much about shuffle these days and there were no changes in any patch notes about it. What's your claim now? This guilt by association mentality you have is immature and asinine.
What's your deal? Did I 1vX you or something?
At this point I'm convinced you never will see evidence of people "shuffle exploiting" because it never existed, it was just an excuse for people like him to cling to to try and explain why they can't kill strong Templars. It was just the most obvious thing people like Rfennell could come up with,"he uses this and I don't" so somehow this is the culprit. Tons of videos about ult hacking etc came out, even from people who've barely used YouTube. But no videos of people shuffle dodging 100% of attacks thrown at them.
He spent months in the shuffle / animation cancel threads, trying to argue without any evidence or even logic. Blatantly throwing up misinformation and an obvious lack of understanding. Once the CE thing came to light he used it as the opportunity to switch gears slightly, instead of being blatantly wrong about game mechanics he doesn't understand he switched to spewing misinformation about CE, another topic he has zero experience or understanding in and no authority to comment about.
Unfortunately there is no ban for spewing garbage and misinformation on the forums, so he's free to run around and accuse people without supporting evidence.
@ZOS_JessicaFolsomZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Hey everyone,
We are working on making some tweaks to certain gap closers that players are using to bypass core keep capture mechanics. It is not intended that gap closers be used to enter keeps without downing doors and/or walls, or enter areas you otherwise would not be able to without exploiting (below Dolmens, under water, etc.) While we are aware that players are using certain gap closers to do exactly these things, we do considered this behavior an exploit.
If you see another player exploiting in this manner, you can send us videos or other evidence by submitting a customer support ticket, by sending them to anyone on the Community or Moderation team here on the forums, or emailing us at community@elderscrollsonline.com.
Thank you!
rfennell_ESO wrote: »rfennell_ESO wrote: »You all have voiced your opinions but really need a reality check and need to chill. Anything in this game that is deemed to "not working as intended" is an exploit. I'm sure every last one of you at this point has used something that wasn't working as intended. Malubeth, nirn back in 1.6, the axe bleed....the list goes on and on. I don't really blame the players for this issue. It's 100% zos and it's sad that it takes them 3-6 months to "fix" said exploits.
@Lyar09 while I agree with you that at some point everyone has used an exploit, I disagree with you that it's ALL Zenimax's issue. Yes, Zenimax made the skill and has to fix it but It's a personal choice to use a skill that a player knows full well shouldn't be doing what it does. Just because it's in the game not working correctly doesn't mean that we should use it. That's a choice that we have to make.
Any player making the choice to use the exploits is taking that chance that they could possibly get action taken against then. Possibly even banned. They know that full well going into their choices and still choose do use the exploit. I don't feel sorry for them. I pity them really. That they had to make that decision when they could have easily chosen not to. A bunch of us in the game don't use these broken mechanics for that specific reason. It's our choice.
Fixing these kinds of things take time unfortunately. The problem is we live in a day and age where we expect things to be done NOW, NOW, NOW. Waiting for something is just unheard of and a burden to us. I am with you on the game fixes and wish they could be done sooner than later but the fact remains, it will get fixed when it's ready and been tested.
Yah the main issue is the players that have the goal of using exploits or anything for an advantage.
Only point about your post past that is direction. In this case direction toward one of them, if you know what I mean. They (he) don't care, they will keep doing it and doing it.
The reason why they all fall back on it's 100% ZOS' fault (or in their case ZOS's fault because they don't understand grammar at all, even in their own names).. well the reason simply is that if it's 100% ZOS' fault is 0% their fault. Blame shifted, innocence established.
Fact is that those that exploit as policy need to go. They need to be banned and they need be banned permanently. They are well aware of what they are doing, made evident by their endless attempting to shift blame from themselves to anything else.
You are constantly insinuating that I am a cheater. Get over yourself. I haven't once used this exploit or any for that matter, yet you continue to call me out. Still waiting on the so called shuffle exploit video by the way. Haven't heard much about shuffle these days and there were no changes in any patch notes about it. What's your claim now? This guilt by association mentality you have is immature and asinine.
What's your deal? Did I 1vX you or something?
At this point I'm convinced you never will see evidence of people "shuffle exploiting" because it never existed, it was just an excuse for people like him to cling to to try and explain why they can't kill strong Templars. It was just the most obvious thing people like Rfennell could come up with,"he uses this and I don't" so somehow this is the culprit. Tons of videos about ult hacking etc came out, even from people who've barely used YouTube. But no videos of people shuffle dodging 100% of attacks thrown at them.
He spent months in the shuffle / animation cancel threads, trying to argue without any evidence or even logic. Blatantly throwing up misinformation and an obvious lack of understanding. Once the CE thing came to light he used it as the opportunity to switch gears slightly, instead of being blatantly wrong about game mechanics he doesn't understand he switched to spewing misinformation about CE, another topic he has zero experience or understanding in and no authority to comment about.
Unfortunately there is no ban for spewing garbage and misinformation on the forums, so he's free to run around and accuse people without supporting evidence.
You are 100% right when you say I have no idea about the mechanics that are being exploited.
I have no idea what's possible or how it's being done. I only know I still see people that don't dodge roll very often dodging everything. I even see them doing rapid shuffle shuffle shuffle animations. I see people getting off abilities a bit quicker than I normally see them, particularly biting jabs and it's completion at speeds that seem a bit off. I see wrecking blows, and now dizzying swings that seem awful fast.
This is, of course, because I don't cheat... The real question would be why do you seem to know so much about it and how it works?
/queue "I did the research" reply.
/queue the obvious and eternal edited followup claiming that it's all because I got "beat". Everyone that rolls in cyro gets beat... particularly if you roll around TF with lag and zergs, there is no shame in it. If someone beats me, fine... I've probably been killed 100's of times in pvp now, thing about it is most of us have been killed enough times to recognize when something isn't kosher or if something seems off about the timing of attacks.
I know responding to you only results in vitriol and false claims, and that's fine... I don't ever actually expect a real conversation to develop.
I've heard from people who have spoken with the devs that you can't even run CE anymore. So please explain to me again how I am a cheater?
rfennell_ESO wrote: »Altercator wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Hey everyone,
We are working on making some tweaks to certain gap closers that players are using to bypass core keep capture mechanics. It is not intended that gap closers be used to enter keeps without downing doors and/or walls, or enter areas you otherwise would not be able to without exploiting (below Dolmens, under water, etc.) While we are aware that players are using certain gap closers to do exactly these things, we do considered this behavior an exploit.
If you see another player exploiting in this manner, you can send us videos or other evidence by submitting a customer support ticket, by sending them to anyone on the Community or Moderation team here on the forums, or emailing us at community@elderscrollsonline.com.
Thank you!
Fix your game Zenimax. Stop blaming players for your mistakes.
Truth be told, getting into keeps and to locations you shouldn't has been covered so many times and discussed ad nauseam.
So it's not really a new issue past their being a new way to abuse it.