Sandman929 wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

MoreDino wrote: »

How does one go about looking up and pressing your gap closer hotkey accidentally? Usually I'm aware enough to know what keybinds are my range attacks/defensive abilities.

On my Templar, I have Healing Ward in slot 3 and then Toppling Charge in the same spot on my other bar. There have been a number of times where swap has failed and I've charged someone instead of casting ward. With lag, this can happen.

So you find yourself looking up from the postern house steps and pressing healing ward a lot?

I find myself looking for people to beam and needing to heal their attacks.

Maybe the solution here is a bit obvious...but wouldn't moving one of those skills have prevented this "accident"?

Why should I move skills around that I've had in place for years in the off chance a bar swap fails?

So you don't accidentally exploit a game mechanic that is broken. Because it was accidental, right?

Yes, let's place the blame on players and not on ZOS. It's not like it's their job to eliminate bugs or anything.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone,

We are working on making some tweaks to certain gap closers that players are using to bypass core keep capture mechanics.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom While I appreciate your efforts to fix this exploit, I am concerned in general about how gap closers work, period. There are severe issues with these skills not firing right, even on a 5% grade. Are further fixes in the works to mitigate these issues?

I haven't entered pvp yet(well technically I did try it for a couple hours last summer, but I just recently returned to the game). So, I haven't done this. I don't really have a horse in this race. Here's my perspective though:

I probably would have done this. Ambush is a teleport, taking me to an enemy 22m away. There's nothing to indicate to me that I shouldn't be able to use it vertically to get onto a keep wall, assuming the wall is less than 22m high. I would have assumed it was intended functionality. I would -not- have abused a griefer that was clearly trying to let his enemies into his keep this way, and would likely report him for it.

Players decided it was unintended by the developers, cheating, exploiting, etc. From what I can tell, animation canceling is/was seen by many the same way. Developers decided to leave that in, and certainly not punish people for it.

How am I as a player to know what the devs will decide is a punishable exploit and what is fair use of an unintended game mechanic? It sounds like -many- players were doing this. My options would be to give myself a competitive disadvantage by not doing it, feeling stupid later if it turns out the devs decide it's fair game like they did with animation cancelling or to do it and risk being punished for it later, having no clue it was an exploit. As a player, I should -NOT- be put into the position of having to make that choice.

There's clearly details of this that I'm not privy to, and this specific situation won't impact me. I know beforehand that it's punishable, so I won't do it. What of the future though? I'm competitive, and I like to explore the limits of what my character is capable of. How am I to know when I've crossed the line between smart use of game mechanics and exploiting?

The devs need to fix stuff like this -quickly-. They need to issue some type of warning if they are going to be punishing people. I shouldn't have to stumble on a ruling like this in a random forum thread.

Sandman929 wrote: »

Some_Guy wrote: »

We are aware of the problem and are working towards a solution. No ETA.
And trust me, something is being done that will make people think twice before "accidentally" jumping up a wall

The worst is when it accidentally happens to several players, and then the game makes them start killing people in the keep accidentally.

if people jump in your keep and you cannot kill them while having all the siege all the respawn and all the npcs you just are a horrible player and the players who kill you without healer support (templar charge does not work) deserve to kill you.you can even tell players in zone to come to your help.

ginoboehm wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Some_Guy wrote: »

We are aware of the problem and are working towards a solution. No ETA.
And trust me, something is being done that will make people think twice before "accidentally" jumping up a wall

The worst is when it accidentally happens to several players, and then the game makes them start killing people in the keep accidentally.

if people jump in your keep and you cannot kill them while having all the siege all the respawn and all the npcs you just are a horrible player and the players who kill you without healer support (templar charge does not work) deserve to kill you.you can even tell players in zone to come to your help.

See the problem here is you are basing the fact that someone with more skill has the right to use illegitimate means to enter an area they know they are not supposed to be in and then kill those players.

You don't get to state it is an accident, and then also state that, welp since i'm here I can kill everyone and because you can't kill me, I deserve to kill you.

Circular logic based on a false premise.

yodased wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Some_Guy wrote: »

We are aware of the problem and are working towards a solution. No ETA.
And trust me, something is being done that will make people think twice before "accidentally" jumping up a wall

The worst is when it accidentally happens to several players, and then the game makes them start killing people in the keep accidentally.

if people jump in your keep and you cannot kill them while having all the siege all the respawn and all the npcs you just are a horrible player and the players who kill you without healer support (templar charge does not work) deserve to kill you.you can even tell players in zone to come to your help.

See the problem here is you are basing the fact that someone with more skill has the right to use illegitimate means to enter an area they know they are not supposed to be in and then kill those players.

You don't get to state it is an accident, and then also state that, welp since i'm here I can kill everyone and because you can't kill me, I deserve to kill you.

Circular logic based on a false premise.

i never state that it is in accident. i think we should stop carebearing bad players they get buffed by zergs sieges and snares. if smb jumps in a keep and while you have every advantage there is he still kills you this should be a moment you file a bug report (not a player report)and then think about how to improve yourself.

if zenimax after 3 month only cares about this bug because you guys cry so much i would be ashamed of myself that i had to run to them to get player banned retroactively.
if i would main a class where jumping a keep is possible i would do it all the time because there players have a harder time hiding there no skill behind siege or zergs.
i think there should be a way to jump keeps and with perhaps silver leash or a grabling hook. (only hookable onto enemy players not npcs because turning a empty keep this way is a loser move)
i would suggest if a player enters a keep this way you see it on the map. like the castle would be under attack but you could still travel there. then i would add the inner light ability to some new roaming guards in the castle so nightblades are not that easily able to gank people in the caste which would be a loser move too

Papa_Hunt wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone,

We are working on making some tweaks to certain gap closers that players are using to bypass core keep capture mechanics.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom While I appreciate your efforts to fix this exploit, I am concerned in general about how gap closers work, period. There are severe issues with these skills not firing right, even on a 5% grade. Are further fixes in the works to mitigate these issues?

agree so much. this causes so much more frustration than the whole keep thing. seriously, *** those useless keeps waiting be to nightcapped anyway

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone,

We are working on making some tweaks to certain gap closers that players are using to bypass core keep capture mechanics. It is not intended that gap closers be used to enter keeps without downing doors and/or walls, or enter areas you otherwise would not be able to without exploiting (below Dolmens, under water, etc.) While we are aware that players are using certain gap closers to do exactly these things, we do considered this behavior an exploit.

If you see another player exploiting in this manner, you can send us videos or other evidence by submitting a customer support ticket, by sending them to anyone on the Community or Moderation team here on the forums, or emailing us at community@elderscrollsonline.com.

Thank you!

Fix your game Zenimax. Stop blaming players for your mistakes.

Hopefully Ambush and Dragon leaping into Keeps aren't considered exploits. because those are actually good mechanics that add some flavor to sieging and defending.

the changes to gap closers that people are complaining about, i get that. Crit rushing into keeps is broken pure and simple. however, this issue was brought up in the PTS and ZoS didn't do anything about it and let it go live. Stop banning players for it please.

diskiukas wrote: »

I agree that ZOS is responsible for fixing this in timely manner and disagree with massively banning people for this, but if we talking about the same guy who was banned permanently, as I understand people were telling him constantly to stop abusing this

If I was doing this and other players told me to stop, I'd laugh in their face and keep doing it, just like the guy who got punished. I have no obligation to listen to other players tell me how to play. I didn't listen to players complaining when I hit them with Ken's touch of death combo in Hyper Fighting 25 years ago, I'm not going to listen to them now.

If ZOS told me to stop abusing it, I'd do so immediately. They are the referees in our little sport, so I'll follow their rules, even in cases where I don't agree with them. They've now done so, so I won't do it. Fortunately I hadn't yet participated in this activity, so I'm at no risk of being retroactively banned for it.

They need to be faster on these rulings, and have a better way of distributing them because no, word of mouth will NOT do it. At best if people told me something is against the rules, I'd take a look when it's convenient and see if I can find evidence that they are right. Up until yesterday, such evidence would have been pretty hard to find.

OdinForge wrote: »

Lyar09 wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Robbmrp wrote: »

Lyar09 wrote: »

You all have voiced your opinions but really need a reality check and need to chill. Anything in this game that is deemed to "not working as intended" is an exploit. I'm sure every last one of you at this point has used something that wasn't working as intended. Malubeth, nirn back in 1.6, the axe bleed....the list goes on and on. I don't really blame the players for this issue. It's 100% zos and it's sad that it takes them 3-6 months to "fix" said exploits.

@Lyar09 while I agree with you that at some point everyone has used an exploit, I disagree with you that it's ALL Zenimax's issue. Yes, Zenimax made the skill and has to fix it but It's a personal choice to use a skill that a player knows full well shouldn't be doing what it does. Just because it's in the game not working correctly doesn't mean that we should use it. That's a choice that we have to make.

Any player making the choice to use the exploits is taking that chance that they could possibly get action taken against then. Possibly even banned. They know that full well going into their choices and still choose do use the exploit. I don't feel sorry for them. I pity them really. That they had to make that decision when they could have easily chosen not to. A bunch of us in the game don't use these broken mechanics for that specific reason. It's our choice.

Fixing these kinds of things take time unfortunately. The problem is we live in a day and age where we expect things to be done NOW, NOW, NOW. Waiting for something is just unheard of and a burden to us. I am with you on the game fixes and wish they could be done sooner than later but the fact remains, it will get fixed when it's ready and been tested.

Yah the main issue is the players that have the goal of using exploits or anything for an advantage.

Only point about your post past that is direction. In this case direction toward one of them, if you know what I mean. They (he) don't care, they will keep doing it and doing it.

The reason why they all fall back on it's 100% ZOS' fault (or in their case ZOS's fault because they don't understand grammar at all, even in their own names).. well the reason simply is that if it's 100% ZOS' fault is 0% their fault. Blame shifted, innocence established.

Fact is that those that exploit as policy need to go. They need to be banned and they need be banned permanently. They are well aware of what they are doing, made evident by their endless attempting to shift blame from themselves to anything else.

You are constantly insinuating that I am a cheater. Get over yourself. I haven't once used this exploit or any for that matter, yet you continue to call me out. Still waiting on the so called shuffle exploit video by the way. Haven't heard much about shuffle these days and there were no changes in any patch notes about it. What's your claim now? This guilt by association mentality you have is immature and asinine.

What's your deal? Did I 1vX you or something?

At this point I'm convinced you never will see evidence of people "shuffle exploiting" because it never existed, it was just an excuse for people like him to cling to to try and explain why they can't kill strong Templars. It was just the most obvious thing people like Rfennell could come up with,"he uses this and I don't" so somehow this is the culprit. Tons of videos about ult hacking etc came out, even from people who've barely used YouTube. But no videos of people shuffle dodging 100% of attacks thrown at them.

He spent months in the shuffle / animation cancel threads, trying to argue without any evidence or even logic. Blatantly throwing up misinformation and an obvious lack of understanding. Once the CE thing came to light he used it as the opportunity to switch gears slightly, instead of being blatantly wrong about game mechanics he doesn't understand he switched to spewing misinformation about CE, another topic he has zero experience or understanding in and no authority to comment about.

Unfortunately there is no ban for spewing garbage and misinformation on the forums, so he's free to run around and accuse people without supporting evidence.

You are 100% right when you say I have no idea about the mechanics that are being exploited.

I have no idea what's possible or how it's being done. I only know I still see people that don't dodge roll very often dodging everything. I even see them doing rapid shuffle shuffle shuffle animations. I see people getting off abilities a bit quicker than I normally see them, particularly biting jabs and it's completion at speeds that seem a bit off. I see wrecking blows, and now dizzying swings that seem awful fast.

This is, of course, because I don't cheat... The real question would be why do you seem to know so much about it and how it works?

/queue "I did the research" reply.

/queue the obvious and eternal edited followup claiming that it's all because I got "beat". Everyone that rolls in cyro gets beat... particularly if you roll around TF with lag and zergs, there is no shame in it. If someone beats me, fine... I've probably been killed 100's of times in pvp now, thing about it is most of us have been killed enough times to recognize when something isn't kosher or if something seems off about the timing of attacks.

I know responding to you only results in vitriol and false claims, and that's fine... I don't ever actually expect a real conversation to develop.

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Lyar09 wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Robbmrp wrote: »

Lyar09 wrote: »

You all have voiced your opinions but really need a reality check and need to chill. Anything in this game that is deemed to "not working as intended" is an exploit. I'm sure every last one of you at this point has used something that wasn't working as intended. Malubeth, nirn back in 1.6, the axe bleed....the list goes on and on. I don't really blame the players for this issue. It's 100% zos and it's sad that it takes them 3-6 months to "fix" said exploits.

@Lyar09 while I agree with you that at some point everyone has used an exploit, I disagree with you that it's ALL Zenimax's issue. Yes, Zenimax made the skill and has to fix it but It's a personal choice to use a skill that a player knows full well shouldn't be doing what it does. Just because it's in the game not working correctly doesn't mean that we should use it. That's a choice that we have to make.

Any player making the choice to use the exploits is taking that chance that they could possibly get action taken against then. Possibly even banned. They know that full well going into their choices and still choose do use the exploit. I don't feel sorry for them. I pity them really. That they had to make that decision when they could have easily chosen not to. A bunch of us in the game don't use these broken mechanics for that specific reason. It's our choice.

Fixing these kinds of things take time unfortunately. The problem is we live in a day and age where we expect things to be done NOW, NOW, NOW. Waiting for something is just unheard of and a burden to us. I am with you on the game fixes and wish they could be done sooner than later but the fact remains, it will get fixed when it's ready and been tested.

Yah the main issue is the players that have the goal of using exploits or anything for an advantage.

Only point about your post past that is direction. In this case direction toward one of them, if you know what I mean. They (he) don't care, they will keep doing it and doing it.

The reason why they all fall back on it's 100% ZOS' fault (or in their case ZOS's fault because they don't understand grammar at all, even in their own names).. well the reason simply is that if it's 100% ZOS' fault is 0% their fault. Blame shifted, innocence established.

Fact is that those that exploit as policy need to go. They need to be banned and they need be banned permanently. They are well aware of what they are doing, made evident by their endless attempting to shift blame from themselves to anything else.

You are constantly insinuating that I am a cheater. Get over yourself. I haven't once used this exploit or any for that matter, yet you continue to call me out. Still waiting on the so called shuffle exploit video by the way. Haven't heard much about shuffle these days and there were no changes in any patch notes about it. What's your claim now? This guilt by association mentality you have is immature and asinine.

What's your deal? Did I 1vX you or something?

At this point I'm convinced you never will see evidence of people "shuffle exploiting" because it never existed, it was just an excuse for people like him to cling to to try and explain why they can't kill strong Templars. It was just the most obvious thing people like Rfennell could come up with,"he uses this and I don't" so somehow this is the culprit. Tons of videos about ult hacking etc came out, even from people who've barely used YouTube. But no videos of people shuffle dodging 100% of attacks thrown at them.

He spent months in the shuffle / animation cancel threads, trying to argue without any evidence or even logic. Blatantly throwing up misinformation and an obvious lack of understanding. Once the CE thing came to light he used it as the opportunity to switch gears slightly, instead of being blatantly wrong about game mechanics he doesn't understand he switched to spewing misinformation about CE, another topic he has zero experience or understanding in and no authority to comment about.

Unfortunately there is no ban for spewing garbage and misinformation on the forums, so he's free to run around and accuse people without supporting evidence.

You are 100% right when you say I have no idea about the mechanics that are being exploited.

I have no idea what's possible or how it's being done. I only know I still see people that don't dodge roll very often dodging everything. I even see them doing rapid shuffle shuffle shuffle animations. I see people getting off abilities a bit quicker than I normally see them, particularly biting jabs and it's completion at speeds that seem a bit off. I see wrecking blows, and now dizzying swings that seem awful fast.

This is, of course, because I don't cheat... The real question would be why do you seem to know so much about it and how it works?

/queue "I did the research" reply.

/queue the obvious and eternal edited followup claiming that it's all because I got "beat". Everyone that rolls in cyro gets beat... particularly if you roll around TF with lag and zergs, there is no shame in it. If someone beats me, fine... I've probably been killed 100's of times in pvp now, thing about it is most of us have been killed enough times to recognize when something isn't kosher or if something seems off about the timing of attacks.

I know responding to you only results in vitriol and false claims, and that's fine... I don't ever actually expect a real conversation to develop.

So if you don't understand something then it's automatically an exploit. Makes sense. You said it yourself that you lag on TF. Lag plays a major factor in ability animation times. Also, the animation motion that characters do with when casting shuffle is the same animation motion for a lot of abilities. Spamming shuffle does nothing but waste stamina, remove snares, and reset snare immunity and major evasion.

I've heard from people who have spoken with the devs that you can't even run CE anymore. So please explain to me again how I am a cheater?