Dungeons are laughably easy now.. Example video in OP

Destruent · July 2016

Molag_Crow wrote: »

And what a lot of you seem to be forgetting is that the new difficult dungeons are on their way in the next small DLC.

They are easier than WGT/ICP on IC-PTS (maybe on par with them on live atm), so don't call them difficult.

RebornV3x · July 2016

I have to agree this game is too easy aside from VMOL,Vet Sanctum and Vet Maelstrom and maybe the other trials and Imperial Cities dungeons this is probably the easiest MMO Ive ever played. I'd finally convinced a buddy of mine to buy this game and he was complaining how easy it was he was questing in Riften as a level 24 the zone is like what levels 37-43. In my personal experience the game is too easy I never grinded my main character I when from zone to zone played the game the way your suppose to don't think I died once till I glitch out Falchou that Werewolve quest in Glunumbra and I couldn't kill him. It wasn't till I got to Craglorn at around Vet 11 did I even feel like the game started pushing back. Granted I did have trouble with dungeons at first I still remember having trouble with Fungal Grotto but after you figure out the mechanics of this game it gets easy real quick.

MaxwellC · July 2016

The Uninvited wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

See, ZOS makes content easier by a reason - because they have the numbers and see, that content is not done in the amount like they have expected it - and they make it more attractive for those avoiding it, by giving them a chance to get through the content without to die

This is not a really good argument, because it's based on the assumption that content is not done because people can't complete it.

Aetherian Archive and Hel Ra Citadel are not being run at the moment because they are still at CP 140 and most find them too easy. That's why they are upping them to CP 160 and make them fun, hard content again.

So the argument "because they have the numbers and see, that content is not done in the amount like they have expected it" works both ways and can therefore not be seen as the sole reason for making those dungeons easier.

@Lysette ^

Alagras · July 2016

hrothbern wrote: »

I think there must be a satisfying challenge for everyone and we need therefore a difficulty slider with 5 steps or so
and increase somewhat the loot drop rate & quality if played at a more difficult level.

This, obviously

We can discuss forever about "too hard, not hard enough", truth is the range of difficulty levels proposed isn't matching at all the range of players competence, period. It's a BIG flaw of the game.

If we look at solo games that offer different levels, they don't offer 2, but 4 or more.
Well, that's what we need too. At least 3

And agree with the person who quoted you that more powerful gear at the highest level would create a bigger gap between players, I agree though for a higher drop rate of helms and sets, with good traits, at highest level. Veteran would still give a gold key.

And I totally disagree with those who say it's only the "top 5%" of players who complain about this. I'm only part of say the 50% best players, 40 big max, and I really get bored doing pledges at 4.

Edit: It could also be made with systems like read the book or not, break statues or not we already have cause it s an elegant way to do it, but it would be at dungeon entrance and maybe require a vote from the group. Gold key would be granted regardless, hard mode would be for the challenge, and for helm farming runs with trusted partners.

Saturn · July 2016

Destruent wrote: »

Saturn wrote: »

The reason why they are "easier" is because everyone you've run with know the place, have good builds, etc. Plus it doesn't help that everyone is able to pull 30k dps or more on singletarget, since that's how bosses melt so fast. If everyone couldn't pull more than 10-15k dps then you'd think it was difficult because you couldn't ignore mechanics.

It's just the way MMOs work, when ICP and WGT came out they were hard because people weren't familiar with them, now they are just slightly harder than older dungeons.
Sidenote: the nerf to ICP and WGT was 10% less health on all enemies.

I think you'll like the two upcoming dungeons as they will be difficult for a while (unless you go practice intensely on the PTS). Personally I'm in love with the last boss fight in Cradle, that fight is difficult, but entertaining.

That was one nerf, you forgot about the other 3.
And yes, dungeons get easier over time, but ZOS also nerfs them bc people can't wait till they get stronger through gear/CP/gameplay.

They only nerfed the dungeons once. But if you are refering to the changes to the 2nd boss fight in ICP then that wasn't exactly a nerf, but more of a correction as that fight used to be super poorly designed with nonsensical mechanics. Other than that they actually made WGT "harder" since you can't exploit Molag Kena's lightning walls any longer.

Molag_Crow · July 2016

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@Molag_Crow
That's the funny thing it was with randoms only the DPS had 501 CP the rest weren't 501, the tank had 400 something and the healer 200 something.

Hmmmm I've gotta try this

Molag_Crow · July 2016

Destruent wrote: »

Molag_Crow wrote: »

And what a lot of you seem to be forgetting is that the new difficult dungeons are on their way in the next small DLC.

They are easier than WGT/ICP on IC-PTS (maybe on par with them on live atm), so don't call them difficult.

That's your claim, I've yet to see how easy/difficult they are but I'll kinda take your word for it.

The Uninvited · July 2016

Peekachu99 wrote: »

It's good to remember that we were all noobs once, and that this is a social game, catered to a diverse profile of people with variable gaming experience. It's not made for the 1% and 1% alone.

But the point is that it is NOT catered to a diverse profile of people with variable gaming experience. It's being catered 100% to the 99% (except vMA and vMoL).

Why can't the 1% have 1% of the game for them apart from trials? Is that really too much to ask?

The Uninvited · July 2016

Molag_Crow wrote: »

And what a lot of you seem to be forgetting is that the new difficult dungeons are on their way in the next small DLC.

I'm really hoping that they will provide a challenge. However, they will be nerfed very fast otherwise people won't buy the DLC.

Destruent · July 2016

Saturn wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Saturn wrote: »

The reason why they are "easier" is because everyone you've run with know the place, have good builds, etc. Plus it doesn't help that everyone is able to pull 30k dps or more on singletarget, since that's how bosses melt so fast. If everyone couldn't pull more than 10-15k dps then you'd think it was difficult because you couldn't ignore mechanics.

It's just the way MMOs work, when ICP and WGT came out they were hard because people weren't familiar with them, now they are just slightly harder than older dungeons.
Sidenote: the nerf to ICP and WGT was 10% less health on all enemies.

I think you'll like the two upcoming dungeons as they will be difficult for a while (unless you go practice intensely on the PTS). Personally I'm in love with the last boss fight in Cradle, that fight is difficult, but entertaining.

That was one nerf, you forgot about the other 3.
And yes, dungeons get easier over time, but ZOS also nerfs them bc people can't wait till they get stronger through gear/CP/gameplay.

They only nerfed the dungeons once. But if you are refering to the changes to the 2nd boss fight in ICP then that wasn't exactly a nerf, but more of a correction as that fight used to be super poorly designed with nonsensical mechanics. Other than that they actually made WGT "harder" since you can't exploit Molag Kena's lightning walls any longer.

lolwhat?

They got nerfed:
1. on PTS
2. 2 weeks after release (2.1.6)
3. with orsinium-release (2.2.4)
4. with db-release

+ fixes and changes to bossmechanics ^^

MaxwellC · July 2016

^Yup see I had thought these dungeons were nerf'd 3 times but nope I was wrong it was 4 times

The Uninvited · July 2016

Lysette wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

See, ZOS makes content easier by a reason - because they have the numbers and see, that content is not done in the amount like they have expected it - and they make it more attractive for those avoiding it, by giving them a chance to get through the content without to die

This is not a really good argument, because it's based on the assumption that content is not done because people can't complete it.

Aetherian Archive and Hel Ra Citadel are not being run at the moment because they are still at CP 140 and most find them too easy. That's why they are upping them to CP 160 and make them fun, hard content again.

So the argument "because they have the numbers and see, that content is not done in the amount like they have expected it" works both ways and can therefore not be seen as the sole reason for making those dungeons easier.

But that was the reasoning Matt Firor and Rich Lambert gave in an interview a few months ago. So regardless if that is a valid method or not, they are doing it like that.

Well, I never said I agreed with their reasoning.

Elloa · July 2016

The Dungeons are too easy, and they are too easy for even average gamer like me. I'm far from being a min maxer. I don't have the best gear, and I'm not timing my buffs and what not (not using addons). Normal mode is super easy, even with lowbies character in greens, with no passives and what not. And Veteran mode is not really challenging the average player at max level.
Bosses dies too fast cause DPS is too high, they don't have the time to do their special attack that its dead already. Healers and tanks are becoming useless. Pying attention to your gear, your build, your food is usless, cause the bosses will dies anyway. Why bother to work on your character when everything is a overkill already.

Even for new players, it's a disservice than having Dungeons too easy. They need to learn how to prepare themselves, get some gear, have the right spells, take some passive (get your skyshard, stop to slack) learn the tactics of the boss, and not stand in stupid.

So I really wish Zenimax would make Dungeons great again, or offering a difficulty slider.

Destruent · July 2016

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

^Yup see I had thought these dungeons were nerf'd 3 times but nope I was wrong it was 4 times

rekt

Parasaurolophus · July 2016

There is also a good point. Now you do not need to look for a tank for hours for what would go through the dungeon .

Wifeaggro13 · July 2016

Molag_Crow wrote: »

And what a lot of you seem to be forgetting is that the new difficult dungeons are on their way in the next small DLC.

ZOS looked at the data, seen a minority complete it, nerfed it. What's wrong with that? monster helmets and shoulders from those dungeons can be found in the golden Undaunted vendor in Cyrodiil now anyway, so I know there weren't much incentive to run them, but to be honest, Molag Kena (2 piece) and Lord Warden are overrated in my opinion. Still, I understand that it's more about the challenge of the content, but like others have said, you've got better gear/more CP now so it's expected.

2 dungeons that hardly qualifies as enough end game group content to keep people busy playing. game like EQ 2 put out DLC's with tons of content fro group players and manage to put out new races and classes with them. i loved ESO the first six months the direction and their plans were rock solid to make a game i could play long term. Im not paying for single player DLC's with fluff content that has no longevity. Murkmire was supposed to be a full blown DLC designed with the players who enjoy small group content. I do not play MMO's to play by myself. Other games do that far better

Peekachu99 · July 2016

The Uninvited wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

It's good to remember that we were all noobs once, and that this is a social game, catered to a diverse profile of people with variable gaming experience. It's not made for the 1% and 1% alone.

But the point is that it is NOT catered to a diverse profile of people with variable gaming experience. It's being catered 100% to the 99% (except vMA and vMoL).

Why can't the 1% have 1% of the game for them apart from trials? Is that really too much to ask?

You attempted to discount what I said, then proceeded to list two pieces of content that 99% of the player base will never see, clear, or can queue for through Activity Finder. You see how much of a straw man you're working with, right? Those are two rather meaty PVE experiences, with considerable resources and development time associated with them, and they're for precisely the 1%.

I like a challenge as much as the next person, but I'm also realistic about one game somehow pleasing every person in the world.

Lysette · July 2016

The Uninvited wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

Milvan wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Milvan wrote: »

I totally agree with op. PVE currently needs a big upgrade.

Well, it is coming - One Tamriel. But this will as well not please those 5%, who expect to be super-special and be treated super-special - the game is made for the 95%, who are not super-special and pay for the show. Those 5% could never do that.

You sounds like a troll. I don't engage in discussion with trolls. See you around.

LOL so explaining things in a calm, logical fashion is trolling? Sounds more like adulting to me. Perhaps therein lies the disconnect?

"who expect to be super-special and be treated super-special" sounds like trolling to me. Pointing fingers at each other is never good in a discussion.

Well, what does "elite" player mean?- or like some write it super-special as 1337 - isn't this an attempt to be super-special?- And isn't feeling entitled to something, what isn't economically reasonable, like wanting to be treated super-special against all reason?

Mastery404 · July 2016

Alagras wrote: »

We can discuss forever about "too hard, not hard enough", truth is the range of difficulty levels proposed isn't matching at all the range of players competence, period. It's a BIG flaw of the game.

How can you expect to have a balanced content with the Champion Points, which is an endless vertical progression system, and the ridiculously low cd potions, on top of the generic ones like gear, enchants, food and drink, etc. The power gap in this game is HUGE.

Destruent · July 2016

Mastery404 wrote: »

Alagras wrote: »

We can discuss forever about "too hard, not hard enough", truth is the range of difficulty levels proposed isn't matching at all the range of players competence, period. It's a BIG flaw of the game.

How can you expect to have a balanced content with the Champion Points, which is an endless vertical progression system, and the ridiculously low cd potions, on top of the generic ones like gear, enchants, food and drink, etc. The power gap in this game is HUGE.

Just release content for the whole CP-range. Not just for for the lower end + vMoL and vSO. If they do so, the players just have to except that not all content is designed/doable for them.

The Uninvited · July 2016

Peekachu99 wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

It's good to remember that we were all noobs once, and that this is a social game, catered to a diverse profile of people with variable gaming experience. It's not made for the 1% and 1% alone.

But the point is that it is NOT catered to a diverse profile of people with variable gaming experience. It's being catered 100% to the 99% (except vMA and vMoL).

Why can't the 1% have 1% of the game for them apart from trials? Is that really too much to ask?

You attempted to discount what I said, then proceeded to list two pieces of content that 99% of the player base will never see, clear, or can queue for through Activity Finder. You see how much of a straw man you're working with, right? Those are two rather meaty PVE experiences, with considerable resources and development time associated with them, and they're for precisely the 1%.

I like a challenge as much as the next person, but I'm also realistic about one game somehow pleasing every person in the world.

I can see where you get the straw man from, but you must understand that vMA is a 1 person experience (in an MMO) and vMoL is a 12 person experience. Both are challenging indeed, but also take a considerable amount of time and preparation.

I can't really see why it would be a problem to have 2 or 3 dungeons (4 player) with challenging content.

Not only that, but the 1% is a rather exceptional group (I'm not in that league). I think it's rather 90% that's at a "normal" playing level, 9% that are above average and than 1% that is able to complete vMoL. Where is the 4-player content for the 9%?

Granted, a game can not cater to everyone but considering the large amount of content that ESO has it should at least be more able to provide to everyone.

Like you said, we were all noobs once. Those players that have been here for more than 2 years, gave their money to ZOS and got better along the way because they worked for their gear or CP just want some part of the content too. And it's a very small part that they want.

Lysette · July 2016

.

The Uninvited wrote: »

Molag_Crow wrote: »

And what a lot of you seem to be forgetting is that the new difficult dungeons are on their way in the next small DLC.

I'm really hoping that they will provide a challenge. However, they will be nerfed very fast otherwise people won't buy the DLC.

This, they even mentioned it in one of the live shows, that it will be downgraded a bit from what it currently is on the PTS. And this because they see people doing one of the dungeons in 2.5 hours, whereas it is planned for about 45 minutes. Even for a first run this is quite a difference to what is expected.

Destruent · July 2016

Lysette wrote: »

.

The Uninvited wrote: »

Molag_Crow wrote: »

And what a lot of you seem to be forgetting is that the new difficult dungeons are on their way in the next small DLC.

I'm really hoping that they will provide a challenge. However, they will be nerfed very fast otherwise people won't buy the DLC.

This, they even mentioned it in one of the live shows, that it will be downgraded a bit from what it currently is on the PTS. And this because they see people doing one of the dungeons in 2.5 hours, whereas it is planned for about 45 minutes. Even for a first run this is quite a difference to what is expected.

Lol...speedrunachievements are for 30/45 mins iirc. They cannot expect everyone to get speedrun with first completion while trying to understand mechanics and such. sry, but that's just crap.

clayandaudrey_ESO · July 2016

Milvan wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Milvan wrote: »

I totally agree with op. PVE currently needs a big upgrade.

Well, it is coming - One Tamriel. But this will as well not please those 5%, who expect to be super-special and be treated super-special - the game is made for the 95%, who are not super-special and pay for the show. Those 5% could never do that.

You sounds like a troll. I don't engage in discussion with trolls. See you around.

This is becoming more true by the day. I have said before this person is losing the credibility they once had.

Lysette · July 2016

Destruent wrote: »

Mastery404 wrote: »

Alagras wrote: »

We can discuss forever about "too hard, not hard enough", truth is the range of difficulty levels proposed isn't matching at all the range of players competence, period. It's a BIG flaw of the game.

How can you expect to have a balanced content with the Champion Points, which is an endless vertical progression system, and the ridiculously low cd potions, on top of the generic ones like gear, enchants, food and drink, etc. The power gap in this game is HUGE.

Just release content for the whole CP-range. Not just for for the lower end + vMoL and vSO. If they do so, the players just have to except that not all content is designed/doable for them.

Every content they add to the game has to achieve about an equal revenue in regards to the costs to make and run this content. And this is much harder to achieve when the population, which can do this content, is low and pretty much impossible to achieve with just 1% of the player base. If ZOS creates such content at all, this is already more or less a gift, because it is economically not reasonable and they have to cash in somewhere else in an unreasonable way to compensate, what might make more players unhappy than those 1% would be more happy - and they would not be happy for long anyway.

This is just a sisyphean task and not satisfying - neither for most of the player base nor for the developers - because you guys will as well out-level this kind of content and want more. This is a barrel without a bottom, to invest into it is crazy.

Lysette · July 2016

Destruent wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

.

The Uninvited wrote: »

Molag_Crow wrote: »

And what a lot of you seem to be forgetting is that the new difficult dungeons are on their way in the next small DLC.

I'm really hoping that they will provide a challenge. However, they will be nerfed very fast otherwise people won't buy the DLC.

This, they even mentioned it in one of the live shows, that it will be downgraded a bit from what it currently is on the PTS. And this because they see people doing one of the dungeons in 2.5 hours, whereas it is planned for about 45 minutes. Even for a first run this is quite a difference to what is expected.

Lol...speedrunachievements are for 30/45 mins iirc. They cannot expect everyone to get speedrun with first completion while trying to understand mechanics and such. sry, but that's just crap.

no they said it is meant to be done in about 45 minutes - regularily - that is their goal with it - and if people need far longer than this - and 2.5 hours is more than 3 times from what they expect - then they will have to downgrade it.

Destruent · July 2016

Lysette wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

.

The Uninvited wrote: »

Molag_Crow wrote: »

And what a lot of you seem to be forgetting is that the new difficult dungeons are on their way in the next small DLC.

I'm really hoping that they will provide a challenge. However, they will be nerfed very fast otherwise people won't buy the DLC.

This, they even mentioned it in one of the live shows, that it will be downgraded a bit from what it currently is on the PTS. And this because they see people doing one of the dungeons in 2.5 hours, whereas it is planned for about 45 minutes. Even for a first run this is quite a difference to what is expected.

Lol...speedrunachievements are for 30/45 mins iirc. They cannot expect everyone to get speedrun with first completion while trying to understand mechanics and such. sry, but that's just crap.

no they said it is meant to be done in about 45 minutes - regularily - that is their goal with it - and if people need far longer than this - and 2.5 hours is more than 3 times from what they expect - then they will have to downgrade it.

Those dungeons can be done in 45 minutes....just not first-try. What's that hard to understand with it? Do you/they expect people to beat vMoL in 60 minutes first try (without knowing any mechanics) bc it is 1.5times of speedrun achievement? That's f**** nonsense!

Lysette · July 2016

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

Milvan wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Milvan wrote: »

I totally agree with op. PVE currently needs a big upgrade.

Well, it is coming - One Tamriel. But this will as well not please those 5%, who expect to be super-special and be treated super-special - the game is made for the 95%, who are not super-special and pay for the show. Those 5% could never do that.

You sounds like a troll. I don't engage in discussion with trolls. See you around.

This is becoming more true by the day. I have said before this person is losing the credibility they once had.

I look at it from an economical perspective - and ZOS is a business with investors, which would not be happy, if the game is not profitable. They put up quite some amount of money and they expect really good profit for their risk taking. I doubt that they would be happy when time and efforts are wasted on something what is creating less revenue, when the efforts could be put into something what creates much more revenue. In the end it is a business - if you want it or not - and has to make decisions on an economically reasonable basis. You might not like this fact, but fact it fact, it does not change just because you don't like it.

Joy_Division · July 2016

dem0n1k wrote: »

Just gonna throw this out there... but don't you think if you repeat the same content over & over that it will start to seem a lot easier at some point?

No.

The content is too easy because all the dungeons were designed to present a challenge to VR 14 characters with zero champion points at a time when everyone just wore Martial Knowledge gear. The power creep has made this content easy.

Lysette · July 2016

Destruent wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

.

The Uninvited wrote: »

Molag_Crow wrote: »

And what a lot of you seem to be forgetting is that the new difficult dungeons are on their way in the next small DLC.

I'm really hoping that they will provide a challenge. However, they will be nerfed very fast otherwise people won't buy the DLC.

This, they even mentioned it in one of the live shows, that it will be downgraded a bit from what it currently is on the PTS. And this because they see people doing one of the dungeons in 2.5 hours, whereas it is planned for about 45 minutes. Even for a first run this is quite a difference to what is expected.

Lol...speedrunachievements are for 30/45 mins iirc. They cannot expect everyone to get speedrun with first completion while trying to understand mechanics and such. sry, but that's just crap.

no they said it is meant to be done in about 45 minutes - regularily - that is their goal with it - and if people need far longer than this - and 2.5 hours is more than 3 times from what they expect - then they will have to downgrade it.

Those dungeons can be done in 45 minutes....just not first-try. What's that hard to understand with it? Do you/they expect people to beat vMoL in 60 minutes first try (without knowing any mechanics) bc it is 1.5times of speedrun achievement? That's f**** nonsense!

Well it is not me who said they will have to adjust it and make it easier - but ZOS said this. So do not blame me. I am absolutely neutral to this, as this is content I will never do anyway - I am just stating what ZOS has said about this. Basically the sales of this DLC will tell, if it is accepted by the majority or not - if sales would not be good, I doubt that there will be again such content coming in a DLC.