Dungeons are laughably easy now.. Example video in OP

MaxwellC · July 2016

Just finished a run of Vet city of ash and man was that a joke now. Prior to doing that I did ICP and that was a whole lot easier and way less challenging; I'm not sure if the nerf also was to change enemy health but things were getting burned way fast. On VCOA we burned the massive daedroth right as he summoned ads he dropped... titan didn't even have a chance to rain hell fire and was consistently going into his animation where he summons his air atros... and finally skoria got worked so badly before he could finish breaking the second ring he died.

ICP first boss was a joke still but we had to take our time so we didn't get so many adds, second boss was pushed to his phase pretty quickly while flesh atros were dropping with little to no problem, 3rd boss was always easy but now he's pretty much a glorified mob with a large AoE knock back, 4th boss wasn't difficult but always takes a bit of time but nevertheless it was easy as.. well you know. Lastly warden was like butter, I cut through him as if i were putting butter on my bread ready to toast on my pan.

Addition: We had 1 tank (400 CP) 1 healer(200CP)| (both not doing DPS aside from heavy attacks) A sorc (501 CP using litch 5 piece set) using force pulse/frags and A stam DK using maelstrom axes (DW) I'm the stam DK and this was done in random group finder first it was ICP then VCOA.

Tl;DR Dungeons need to stop getting easier and start getting harder to make it feel more rewarding to complete. The rate this game is going with making content easier you might as well give me a group finder for a trial or a hub for players who want to do a trial run because that's the only place I feel a challenge especially on veteran mode.

xboxdvr.com/gamer/Maxwell/video/19422287
xboxdvr.com/gamer/Maxwell/video/19424382

I should also mention the reason why I used that quick chat option was because they were thanking me for helping them out and were calling me "Awesome" lol.

Totalitarian · July 2016

IMO hardest dungeon boss is Hard Mode Molag Kena, simply because when she gets to her burn phase, she can wipe your team in a matter of seconds.

Yesterday I solo'd Dusk from 20%. Thankfully he's more of a solo-friendly boss, but still...

I remember when I used to be unable to get through the content from a lack of experience. Now I'm generally held back by group members, and even then, only with ICP and WGT.

Lysette · July 2016

That is absolutely normal what you feel - the game is made to please the majority - if you are an exception then it will all be too easy for you, regardless what. Same goes in real life, if you are excellent, nothing does really challenge you in normal life and maybe not even in university. Maybe a bit more in your job, but as well not really. That is just the burden you have to carry, when you go for being exceptional.

Jaronking · July 2016

Lysette wrote: »

That is absolutely normal what you feel - the game is made to please the majority - if you are an exception then it will all be too easy for you, regardless what. Same goes in real life, if you are excellent, nothing does really challenge you in normal life and maybe not even in university. Maybe a bit more in your job, but as well not really. That is just the burden you have to carry, when you go for being exceptional.

Come.on man you can Nerf yourself and the game is still two easy.The game should force you to use your head not just mashed your face over your controller/keyboard and solo the entire game.It rewarded stupidity and lack of thinking.

Lysette · July 2016

Jaronking wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

That is absolutely normal what you feel - the game is made to please the majority - if you are an exception then it will all be too easy for you, regardless what. Same goes in real life, if you are excellent, nothing does really challenge you in normal life and maybe not even in university. Maybe a bit more in your job, but as well not really. That is just the burden you have to carry, when you go for being exceptional.

Come.on man you can Nerf yourself and the game is still two easy.The game should force you to use your head not just mashed your face over your controller/keyboard and solo the entire game.It rewarded stupidity and lack of thinking.

What I wanted to say with it is - you are out of luck - you belong to those 5%, who experience that - if they are 5% at all - and you cannot expect, that effort is put into something, what 95% of the players will never experience - that would be waste of resources and has no economical benefit for ZOS.

MaxwellC · July 2016

@Lysette
Well there's a difference between 5% who will stay and the 95% who will drop the game for a couple months. Let's say you own a restaurant and 95% of your customers are coming to your restaurant because it's conveniently closer to the subway and they like the menu of items you serve; now let's say another store opens up a bit closer (400 meters) to the subway. 95% of those customers choose to try out that restaurant for a couple months while the 5% stay loyal to that restaurant they kept going to.

My question to you is which would you try to appease more the 5% that stays or the 95% that eventually leaves?

Lysette · July 2016

I would, if those 5% are willing to pay 20-times the price - because that is what it would cost them, if they want something extra special - just like it is with cars - common Joe drives a normal car, but if you want an exceptional car, you will have to pay 20-times more to drive this. That is because the costs for it's development have to be carried by a lot less people.

You underestimate TES fans - who want the game to be like the former TES games - RPGs, story-driven, interesting quest, but not too hard to do (as in relatively easy and on the first try) and exploration over challenge. That is what ZOS delivers, because that is what the majority expects. TES VI is far out - several years - so this is the only TES game with new content and they will stay - why would they want to leave - they are TES fans, RPG is for them mainly if not exclusively Elder Scrolls. They do not just leave for the next hype - simply because it isn't Elder Scrolls.

Jaronking · July 2016

Lysette wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

That is absolutely normal what you feel - the game is made to please the majority - if you are an exception then it will all be too easy for you, regardless what. Same goes in real life, if you are excellent, nothing does really challenge you in normal life and maybe not even in university. Maybe a bit more in your job, but as well not really. That is just the burden you have to carry, when you go for being exceptional.

Come.on man you can Nerf yourself and the game is still two easy.The game should force you to use your head not just mashed your face over your controller/keyboard and solo the entire game.It rewarded stupidity and lack of thinking.

What I wanted to say with it is - you are out of luck - you belong to those 5%, who experience that - if they are 5% at all - and you cannot expect, that effort is put into something, what 95% of the players will never experience - that would be waste of resources and has no economical benefit for ZOS.

So you telling me ZOS should make the so easy that you don't want to have to use your brain?That's what the game is at right now.You don't have to think and than it gives players a false since of accomplishments and best player in the game when in reality when they actually do difficult content they can't complete and ask for nerfs and even with the nerfs the leave because their not as good as they thought.You lose money instead of continually milking your playeebase by giving them rewarding content.If you give them mind numbing content they will leave because the carrot on the stick isn't worth it.Making them want to strive to be better is how you milk them because you make them think anything you put up will make them like the 1%.While still releasing cosmetic items for the RPers.You will make more money in the long run.

Lysette · July 2016

Jaronking wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

That is absolutely normal what you feel - the game is made to please the majority - if you are an exception then it will all be too easy for you, regardless what. Same goes in real life, if you are excellent, nothing does really challenge you in normal life and maybe not even in university. Maybe a bit more in your job, but as well not really. That is just the burden you have to carry, when you go for being exceptional.

Come.on man you can Nerf yourself and the game is still two easy.The game should force you to use your head not just mashed your face over your controller/keyboard and solo the entire game.It rewarded stupidity and lack of thinking.

What I wanted to say with it is - you are out of luck - you belong to those 5%, who experience that - if they are 5% at all - and you cannot expect, that effort is put into something, what 95% of the players will never experience - that would be waste of resources and has no economical benefit for ZOS.

So you telling me ZOS should make the so easy that you don't want to have to use your brain?That's what the game is at right now.You don't have to think and than it gives players a false since of accomplishments and best player in the game when in reality when they actually do difficult content they can't complete and ask for nerfs and even with the nerfs the leave because their not as good as they thought.You lose money instead of continually milking your playeebase by giving them rewarding content.If you give them mind numbing content they will leave because the carrot on the stick isn't worth it.Making them want to strive to be better is how you milk them because you make them think anything you put up will make them like the 1%.While still releasing cosmetic items for the RPers.You will make more money in the long run.

The average player is not a player good enough to do content like you want it - they would just not play it at all. They are casual, with a limited time to play, and this time has to be enjoyable, relaxing and fun - and that is not the case if they would be stressed out by content, which is too hard to do for them. They want to escape stress, not have it in a game as well.

Lysette · July 2016

See, ZOS makes content easier by a reason - because they have the numbers and see, that content is not done in the amount like they have expected it - and they make it more attractive for those avoiding it, by giving them a chance to get through the content without to die - Role player do not like dying in a game - they want to get through it without to die or just rarely. They are different from you guys, who want a challenge - you die as often as necessary to master it - but that is not what an RPG player wants - he wants to get through it without to die all the time - and content has to be adjusted to make this possible.

That is why ZOS is doing this.

dem0n1k · July 2016

Just gonna throw this out there... but don't you think if you repeat the same content over & over that it will start to seem a lot easier at some point?

notimetocare · July 2016

Eh, I've done it all before and after nerds and have no problem with the netfd. Less challenge? Sure, but it's only less fun if you only play for the challengr and could always have a group perfectly setup for it. Those 95% will come and go an most often replace themselves with new blood. The top 5% will leave and never come back because they tend to be elistests. I would rather run content with less than stellar people that actually have fun and dont moan and whine the whole run to mistakes.

Darkonflare15 · July 2016

No they did not make the content easier. It just that players are too powerful with gear and champion points.

Milvan · July 2016

I totally agree with op. PVE currently needs a big upgrade.

Lysette · July 2016

Milvan wrote: »

I totally agree with op. PVE currently needs a big upgrade.

Well, it is coming - One Tamriel. But this will as well not please those 5%, who expect to be super-special and be treated super-special - the game is made for the 95%, who are not super-special and pay for the show. Those 5% could never do that.

Milvan · July 2016

Lysette wrote: »

Milvan wrote: »

I totally agree with op. PVE currently needs a big upgrade.

Well, it is coming - One Tamriel. But this will as well not please those 5%, who expect to be super-special and be treated super-special - the game is made for the 95%, who are not super-special and pay for the show. Those 5% could never do that.

You sounds like a troll. I don't engage in discussion with trolls. See you around.

Lysette · July 2016

Milvan wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Milvan wrote: »

I totally agree with op. PVE currently needs a big upgrade.

Well, it is coming - One Tamriel. But this will as well not please those 5%, who expect to be super-special and be treated super-special - the game is made for the 95%, who are not super-special and pay for the show. Those 5% could never do that.

You sounds like a troll. I don't engage in discussion with trolls. See you around.

I just try to make you understand, that a game cannot cater to a minority, when it is supposed to make profit. If you see this as trolling, so be it - but you might consider reading the code of conduct, as calling someone a troll is forbidden on the forum.

AtmaDarkwolf · July 2016

sorry but alot of these posts seem like they are from that 'elitist ***' group. Yes its easier than it was, this is fine.

Some of us, who ARE 'decent' but not absolute best geared max cp'ed perfect macro'ed rotation 60k dps types(IE read, normal 20-25k dps or so) find ICP and WGT hard still. Know what? I'm at the upper level of that '95%' being mentioned, and these dungeons are STILL a challenge.

Truth is, if you find it too easy, please, go play something else, as has been stated, its obvious this game DOES NOT HOLD anything more for you. You did it all, you are at the point your little less than a walking god in the game, everything is a breeze, you know exactly when to do each skill/your macro's are finely programed, and you have the best gear possible from the hardest dungeons ever made. Thank you, your are truly 'great' at this game, and this isn't being sarcastic. But sadly, ALL things must end, now its time for you (as the 5%) to move on and find some NEW challenges instead of trying to make the other 95% 'leave -your- game'

On that note, NO I do NOT want to see the game so watered down to the point anyone can manage it. I think 25(ish)% of the player base should have a fair shot of the hardest content (or the higher -end hard content)

I really wish people would look at how they appear before they type up stuff like this. Just look at it from the PoV of someone 'new' and fresh to the game.

ishilb14_ESO · July 2016

We know dungeons are really easy. ZOS clearly has no issue with using cheatengine to get the top score for vMA so we should all use it and every dungeon will be smokin easy

khele23eb17_ESO · July 2016

Get 2 DDs with vMA weapons and the bosses just melt in seconds. Its how strong these things are. They make dungeons laughably easy and let you ignore most boss mechanics. On the other hand an group without them will go at a snail's pace in comparison.

DocFrost72 · July 2016

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

No they did not make the content easier. It just that players are too powerful with gear and champion points.

This guy gets it.

Drop your gold gear, don't spend any CP. Tell me how ICP feels.

mistermutiny89 · July 2016

You haven't been using the group finder....

Get in a group where one dd just spams arrow light attacks, and the healer is a wrecking blow spammer in full heavy armour. I can carry those groups with my sap tank just barely but otherwise that's the true hard mode of dungeons.

Meanwhile if you do get four people with an understanding of their roles the game is easy mode, yes.

khele23eb17_ESO · July 2016

mistermutiny89 wrote: »

You haven't been using the group finder....

Get in a group where one dd just spams arrow light attacks, and the healer is a wrecking blow spammer in full heavy armour. I can carry those groups with my sap tank just barely but otherwise that's the true hard mode of dungeons.

The other night I was grouped with a NB who did nothing but spam ambush and killers blade. When I asked him about it he said it was the most efficient way to play since he didnt run out of stamina XD

Ep1kMalware · July 2016

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

Just finished a run of Vet city of ash and man was that a joke now. Prior to doing that I did ICP and that was a whole lot easier and way less challenging; I'm not sure if the nerf also was to change enemy health but things were getting burned way fast. On VCOA we burned the massive daedroth right as he summoned ads he dropped... titan didn't even have a chance to rain hell fire and was consistently going into his animation where he summons his air atros... and finally skoria got worked so badly before he could finish breaking the second ring he died.

ICP first boss was a joke still but we had to take our time so we didn't get so many adds, second boss was pushed to his phase pretty quickly while flesh atros were dropping with little to no problem, 3rd boss was always easy but now he's pretty much a glorified mob with a large AoE knock back, 4th boss wasn't difficult but always takes a bit of time but nevertheless it was easy as.. well you know. Lastly warden was like butter, I cut through him as if i were putting butter on my bread ready to toast on my pan.

Tl;DR Dungeons need to stop getting easier and start getting harder to make it feel more rewarding to complete. The rate this game is going with making content easier you might as well give me a group finder for a trial or a hub for players who want to do a trial run because that's the only place I feel a challenge especially on veteran mode.

dude, that's exacrly how tou get *** nerfed. provide easy access to it.

Lord_Eomer · July 2016

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

Just finished a run of Vet city of ash and man was that a joke now. Prior to doing that I did ICP and that was a whole lot easier and way less challenging; I'm not sure if the nerf also was to change enemy health but things were getting burned way fast. On VCOA we burned the massive daedroth right as he summoned ads he dropped... titan didn't even have a chance to rain hell fire and was consistently going into his animation where he summons his air atros... and finally skoria got worked so badly before he could finish breaking the second ring he died.

ICP first boss was a joke still but we had to take our time so we didn't get so many adds, second boss was pushed to his phase pretty quickly while flesh atros were dropping with little to no problem, 3rd boss was always easy but now he's pretty much a glorified mob with a large AoE knock back, 4th boss wasn't difficult but always takes a bit of time but nevertheless it was easy as.. well you know. Lastly warden was like butter, I cut through him as if i were putting butter on my bread ready to toast on my pan.

Tl;DR Dungeons need to stop getting easier and start getting harder to make it feel more rewarding to complete. The rate this game is going with making content easier you might as well give me a group finder for a trial or a hub for players who want to do a trial run because that's the only place I feel a challenge especially on veteran mode.

Regarding City Of Ash, it was always easier except final boss which requires good group to defeat without dying..

phaneub17_ESO · July 2016

Now do them all with random group members from now on and kick NO ONE EVER.

The Uninvited · July 2016

Lysette wrote: »

See, ZOS makes content easier by a reason - because they have the numbers and see, that content is not done in the amount like they have expected it - and they make it more attractive for those avoiding it, by giving them a chance to get through the content without to die

This is not a really good argument, because it's based on the assumption that content is not done because people can't complete it.

Aetherian Archive and Hel Ra Citadel are not being run at the moment because they are still at CP 140 and most find them too easy. That's why they are upping them to CP 160 and make them fun, hard content again.

So the argument "because they have the numbers and see, that content is not done in the amount like they have expected it" works both ways and can therefore not be seen as the sole reason for making those dungeons easier.

Lysette · July 2016

The Uninvited wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

See, ZOS makes content easier by a reason - because they have the numbers and see, that content is not done in the amount like they have expected it - and they make it more attractive for those avoiding it, by giving them a chance to get through the content without to die

This is not a really good argument, because it's based on the assumption that content is not done because people can't complete it.

Aetherian Archive and Hel Ra Citadel are not being run at the moment because they are still at CP 140 and most find them too easy. That's why they are upping them to CP 160 and make them fun, hard content again.

So the argument "because they have the numbers and see, that content is not done in the amount like they have expected it" works both ways and can therefore not be seen as the sole reason for making those dungeons easier.

But that was the reasoning Matt Firor and Rich Lambert gave in an interview a few months ago. So regardless if that is a valid method or not, they are doing it like that.

acw37162 · July 2016

This was not a PUG group, I can certify.

Apocalypse1981 · July 2016

I am pretty sure you ran vcoa with me, im massive hobo DK.
Please tell me if im right or wrong

Ep1kMalware · July 2016

Lysette wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

See, ZOS makes content easier by a reason - because they have the numbers and see, that content is not done in the amount like they have expected it - and they make it more attractive for those avoiding it, by giving them a chance to get through the content without to die

This is not a really good argument, because it's based on the assumption that content is not done because people can't complete it.

Aetherian Archive and Hel Ra Citadel are not being run at the moment because they are still at CP 140 and most find them too easy. That's why they are upping them to CP 160 and make them fun, hard content again.

So the argument "because they have the numbers and see, that content is not done in the amount like they have expected it" works both ways and can therefore not be seen as the sole reason for making those dungeons easier.

But that was the reasoning Matt Firor and Rich Lambert gave in an interview a few months ago. So regardless if that is a valid method or not, they are doing it like that.

that was all about dungeons, which they seem to want to stixk with. so now evreryone with w]a wet noodle is facerolling dungeons. adding gf to trials makes people feel entitled to beat vet trials, even tho they jave puggable normal versions with same drops. Then we get trials nerfs.

if we get gf tool foe trials there will be absolutely zero mildly vha==challenging content within 6 months. zero. I'd bet the playerbase would drop in half, too. I seldom see anyone on ps4 not cp501 already, I'd be willing to bet more than a handful of players would boredom quit. I've seen more people quite over boredom and rng than anytho]ing else, and I've seen more people return over trials/2 new dungeom dlc over anything else.

sofar the 'everybody has content) approach they're taking seems to work fine.

people who feel entitled to be on a trial leaderboard just need to grow up, and earn it. I fimd people typically hold themselves back.