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Lets Balance Radiant Destruction
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Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Majority of Templars, the "experienced" ones agree that it's too much...
I've probably put about 20 days game time into PvP or a bit more, that really has nothing to do with the discussion. I can clearly see when something is so unbalanced
I main a Templar in PvE, I can assure you, this change wont hurt it but would balance out PvP a lot betternordsavage wrote: »More pvp whining that ends up hurting pve. Radiant Destruction is the least of what breaks pvp I can assure you.
But you don't really pvp.
20 days?! And you really think you can see clearly? I beg to differ. Play pvp a bit more and get a bigger picture of what goes on. And till then, go back and read comments of experienced pvp Templars. There are differences of opinions, but the general consensus is that given our lack of mobility, the fact that a channel not only snares us, but leaves us open to interrupts, and that it is the only skill that hard counters shuffle/dodge spammers...it is working as intended. Heck, even the Devs have said that it is working as intended.
So yeah, your lack of experience as a pvp player has everything to do with this discussion. So why don't you go back and read what other Templars have said before you start a new thread.
Actually ontop of that, majority of "experienced" players agree it's too much.#MOREORBS5 -
maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Majority of Templars, the "experienced" ones agree that it's too much...
I've probably put about 20 days game time into PvP or a bit more, that really has nothing to do with the discussion. I can clearly see when something is so unbalanced
I main a Templar in PvE, I can assure you, this change wont hurt it but would balance out PvP a lot betternordsavage wrote: »More pvp whining that ends up hurting pve. Radiant Destruction is the least of what breaks pvp I can assure you.
But you don't really pvp.
20 days?! And you really think you can see clearly? I beg to differ. Play pvp a bit more and get a bigger picture of what goes on. And till then, go back and read comments of experienced pvp Templars. There are differences of opinions, but the general consensus is that given our lack of mobility, the fact that a channel not only snares us, but leaves us open to interrupts, and that it is the only skill that hard counters shuffle/dodge spammers...it is working as intended. Heck, even the Devs have said that it is working as intended.
So yeah, your lack of experience as a pvp player has everything to do with this discussion. So why don't you go back and read what other Templars have said before you start a new thread.
Actually ontop of that, majority of "experienced" players agree it's too much.
Naw. You're incorrect. Go back and read previous threads.4 -
juhasman✭✭✭✭I start to put this vid in every discussion about Radiant.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em46ajNfuTU
Starting doing increased dmg at 50% ,,up to" some value it's not how range EXECUTES should work. Not mentioning it's doing higher dmg then other executes even at 100% hp. Lower the range and give it 330% more dmg at 25% of enemie hp not ,,up to" 330%.Edited by juhasman on July 8, 2016 2:39PM3 -
sluice✭✭✭✭
I've probably put about 20 days game time into PvP or a bit more, that really has nothing to do with the discussion. I can clearly see when something is so unbalanced
I main a Templar in PvE, I can assure you, this change wont hurt it but would balance out PvP a lot betternordsavage wrote: »More pvp whining that ends up hurting pve. Radiant Destruction is the least of what breaks pvp I can assure you.
But you don't really pvp.
I've probably put about 20 days forum time into reading threads about nerfing Radiant Destruction, that really has nothing to do with the discussion. I can clearly see when somebody needs to L2P.Edited by sluice on July 8, 2016 2:58PMPSN: sluiceqc (NA-PS4) CP: 551+
I strictly play on Daggerfall Covenant for when it comes to PvPDaggerfall Covenant
sluice - Orc Sorcerer (50)
Anýa - Bosmer Nightblade (0..50)
Aldmeri Dominion (PvE only)
Arýä - Altmer Sorcerer (50)
Marksar - Breton Templar (50)
Maksar - Bosmer Nightblade (50)
sluice - Imperial Dragonknight (0..50) R.I.P.
Ebonheart Pact
Can't-Heal-Stupid - Argonian Templar (0..50)
#VMATOKENSYSTEM #TRAITCHANGE
(vMA) drop table and probability2 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
incoming comments about how blab uses structured entropy making this inaccurate even though it really doesn't matterI start to put this vid in every discussion about Radiant.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em46ajNfuTU#MOREORBS2 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I have
Majority of Templars, the "experienced" ones agree that it's too much...
I've probably put about 20 days game time into PvP or a bit more, that really has nothing to do with the discussion. I can clearly see when something is so unbalanced
I main a Templar in PvE, I can assure you, this change wont hurt it but would balance out PvP a lot betternordsavage wrote: »More pvp whining that ends up hurting pve. Radiant Destruction is the least of what breaks pvp I can assure you.
But you don't really pvp.
20 days?! And you really think you can see clearly? I beg to differ. Play pvp a bit more and get a bigger picture of what goes on. And till then, go back and read comments of experienced pvp Templars. There are differences of opinions, but the general consensus is that given our lack of mobility, the fact that a channel not only snares us, but leaves us open to interrupts, and that it is the only skill that hard counters shuffle/dodge spammers...it is working as intended. Heck, even the Devs have said that it is working as intended.
So yeah, your lack of experience as a pvp player has everything to do with this discussion. So why don't you go back and read what other Templars have said before you start a new thread.
Actually ontop of that, majority of "experienced" players agree it's too much.
Naw. You're incorrect. Go back and read previous threads.
#MOREORBS0 -
caeliusstarbreaker✭✭✭✭✭
✭Reduce range
Make execute dmg scale up at 20-30% remaining health
Leave the rest of the skill alone and it will be fine.
The whole "we are snared and channeling" argument doesn't work, it's an undodgeable, instant dmg tick, 41m execute from 50% health. You're outside of gap closing and interrupt distance when half of you initiate your beam anyways.
The whole "it gives us a hard counter to shuffle/dodge roll builds" your puncturing sweeps are not dodge-roll-able as well.
For an execute that has an instant dmg tick that you can't avoid... Just bring the range down to under gap closing distance. You'll still have your counter, other builds will have their counter to you... And if everyone defending radiant are as good a player as they think they are, it will literally change nothing for you other than you spamming it at full health from max range.
Edited by caeliusstarbreaker on July 8, 2016 2:42PMRhage Lionpride DC Stamina Templar
K-Hole6 -
KenaPKK✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Range nerf, get rid of the scaling on current magicka level. It makes no sense that the skill should scale on max spell damage + magicka, enemy's missing health, AND your current magicka level. That is also promoting the "sit back and beam spam" play style.
Also, dramatically reduce the damage scaling with the enemy's missing health between 25-50%. The curve is too steep. A ranged execute shouldn't be so dangerous at 30-40% health. Otherwise what's the point of half of your health pool?
The instant tick may also need to be looked at. RD currently operates just like Impale -- ranged instant execute burst -- except it also can't be dodged and has follow up ticks to continue finishing the target off. Shouldn't a channel ramp up in damage? That may be a bit much of a change.
I'd argue that thematically, NB should have the best execute in the game. I don't want them to become op or for templar to be underpowered, though, so meh... But as it stands, Impale feels super balanced as an 18m ranged burst 25% health execute, but it is completely outclassed by RD, which does everything it does but better.Sallington wrote: »Just start by making it dodgeable, and take it from there.
Or give it Dark Flare's cast time, and make Dark Flare instant cast (or have a proc like Frags)
Nightblade is instant and fast.Since your talking about an execute, why not have them all with similar mechanics. Zenimax could update all Execute Skills so that they are an instant cast as well as only give the execute bonus at 20% or below. If the skill is used on a player above 20% health then it should do damage but nothing close to an execute level. This way any execute skill that's used, works the same way. It will eliminate complaints about this skill being too OP or that skill needs work.
They are an execute after all, using it on someone with a lot of health should do minimal damage. They all need to be dodgeable as well.
Sorcerer is burst, it explodes at low health, it's like a time bomb in a way.
Templar is a beam that deals ticks that get stronger.
DK is...mmm.
Edited by KenaPKK on July 8, 2016 2:52PM2 -
DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Majority of Templars, the "experienced" ones agree that it's too much...
I've probably put about 20 days game time into PvP or a bit more, that really has nothing to do with the discussion. I can clearly see when something is so unbalanced
I main a Templar in PvE, I can assure you, this change wont hurt it but would balance out PvP a lot betternordsavage wrote: »More pvp whining that ends up hurting pve. Radiant Destruction is the least of what breaks pvp I can assure you.
But you don't really pvp.
20 days?! And you really think you can see clearly? I beg to differ. Play pvp a bit more and get a bigger picture of what goes on. And till then, go back and read comments of experienced pvp Templars. There are differences of opinions, but the general consensus is that given our lack of mobility, the fact that a channel not only snares us, but leaves us open to interrupts, and that it is the only skill that hard counters shuffle/dodge spammers...it is working as intended. Heck, even the Devs have said that it is working as intended.
So yeah, your lack of experience as a pvp player has everything to do with this discussion. So why don't you go back and read what other Templars have said before you start a new thread.
Actually ontop of that, majority of "experienced" players agree it's too much.
I am experienced, that is why I don't die to it
Seriously, it isnt an overpowered skill. Range is easily fixed by the fact that venom arrow and crushing shock both have identicle ranges to it, 28 meters. If you pick more damage over interupt, that is a conscious choice to hope you can burn them before you get burned.
If it is the high amount of damage, it barely hits worth anything above 50%, and still isn't anything special until 30ish percent. Not to mention wards stop any crit, and bone shield/annulment are great for giving you a couple seconds to heal up and make it worthless again. And you can block the damage (still trying to figure out the whys as to that)
If it is the fact that they can stand back and use it from safety, ANY move (especially the two counters to RD I mentioned) is as annoying. Imagine a sniper NB, or a crushing shock spamming Sorc at 28 meters shooting you while you're fighting others. That'll still kill you, and faster since they hit harder the first 70ish percent of your health so the stam dk in front of you can just leap or executioner you. Not only that, but you can use LOS to break it and make smaller engagements. Win against the aforementioned DK while the templar is repositioning and exit from behind the tree/rock with and evil grin.
If it is that 5 RD beas on you gives you no chance, then the same logic should be applied to ALL moves that deal good damage if 5 people spam them. Hint, that is a majority of moves in the game.
The only thing I could see irritation about is that it is undodgeable. But if you stack ALL your defensive capabilities into one type of defense (dodge chance and dodge roll), then there has to be a counter or that is OP as all hell.
Not trying to be rude man, just saying there are valid, easy ways to deal with a beamplars that don't involve nerfing the class itself.
Edit for usual phone derpinessEdited by DocFrost72 on July 8, 2016 2:44PM8 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Since you decided to make this personal for whatever reasonDocFrost72 wrote: »
Majority of Templars, the "experienced" ones agree that it's too much...
I've probably put about 20 days game time into PvP or a bit more, that really has nothing to do with the discussion. I can clearly see when something is so unbalanced
I main a Templar in PvE, I can assure you, this change wont hurt it but would balance out PvP a lot betternordsavage wrote: »More pvp whining that ends up hurting pve. Radiant Destruction is the least of what breaks pvp I can assure you.
But you don't really pvp.
20 days?! And you really think you can see clearly? I beg to differ. Play pvp a bit more and get a bigger picture of what goes on. And till then, go back and read comments of experienced pvp Templars. There are differences of opinions, but the general consensus is that given our lack of mobility, the fact that a channel not only snares us, but leaves us open to interrupts, and that it is the only skill that hard counters shuffle/dodge spammers...it is working as intended. Heck, even the Devs have said that it is working as intended.
So yeah, your lack of experience as a pvp player has everything to do with this discussion. So why don't you go back and read what other Templars have said before you start a new thread.
Actually ontop of that, majority of "experienced" players agree it's too much.
I am experienced, that is why I don't die to it
Seriously, it isnt an overpowered skill. Range is easily fixed by the fact that venom arrow and crushing shock both have identicle ranges to it, 28 meters. If you pick more damage over interupt, that is a conscious choice to hope you can burn them before you get burned.
If it is the high amount of damage, it barely hits worth anything above 50%, and still isn't anything special until 30ish percent. Not to mention wards stop any crit, and bone shield/annulment are great for giving you a couple seconds to heal up and make it worthless again. And you can block the damage (still trying to figure out the whys as to that)
If it is the fact that they can stand back and use it from safety, ANY move (especially the two counters to RD I mentioned) is as annoying. Imagine a sniper NB, or a crushing shock spamming Sorc at 28 meters shooting you while you're fighting others. That'll still kill you, and faster since they hit harder the first 70ish percent of your health so the stam dk in front of you can just leap or executioner you. Not only that, but you can use LOS to break it and make smaller engagements. Win against the aforementioned DK while the templar is repositioning and exit from behind the tree/rock with and evil grin.
If it is that 5 RD beas on you gives you no chance, then the same logic should be applied to ALL moves that deal good damage if 5 people spam them. Hint, that is a majority of moves in the game.
The only thing I could see irritation about is that it is undodgeable. But if you stack ALL your defensive capabilities into one type of defense (dodge chance and dodge roll), then there has to be a counter or that is OP as all hell.
Not trying to be rude man, just saying there are valid, easy ways to deal with a beam play that font involve nerf in the class itself.
Dealing with 1 or 2 beams is fine, nothing that bad about it really.
But having someone beam you in the back while you're trying to take on 1 or 2 people and having that person just spam beam on you is just absolutely pathetic. That is the main point of this thread, and I've done this to see what it's like, I know it's pathetic. And just shouldn't even be a thing.
Having 4 on you at once you will not survive in light armor for the most part, the damage it deals and increases and with the range. It's just too much.
Every other skill being spammed on me is quite easy to deal with. Beam is just so strong in this regard, if you remember back in the day they put a cap on beam, if 1 person was using it on you only 1 person would get execute damage. This was a nice way of dealing with things too, but it hurt in pve so they removed it. I wish they brought it back only to work in Cyrodill.
You need to reread OP, I'm pointing out the fact the pathetic and toxic gameplay this skill is bringing out in PvP, ruining it. Not that it deals too much damage above execute or anything like that. But beam is just getting a little out of control using it above 40% and waiting for targets to hit lower health#MOREORBS1 -
DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Since you decided to make this personal for whatever reasonDocFrost72 wrote: »
Majority of Templars, the "experienced" ones agree that it's too much...
I've probably put about 20 days game time into PvP or a bit more, that really has nothing to do with the discussion. I can clearly see when something is so unbalanced
I main a Templar in PvE, I can assure you, this change wont hurt it but would balance out PvP a lot betternordsavage wrote: »More pvp whining that ends up hurting pve. Radiant Destruction is the least of what breaks pvp I can assure you.
But you don't really pvp.
20 days?! And you really think you can see clearly? I beg to differ. Play pvp a bit more and get a bigger picture of what goes on. And till then, go back and read comments of experienced pvp Templars. There are differences of opinions, but the general consensus is that given our lack of mobility, the fact that a channel not only snares us, but leaves us open to interrupts, and that it is the only skill that hard counters shuffle/dodge spammers...it is working as intended. Heck, even the Devs have said that it is working as intended.
So yeah, your lack of experience as a pvp player has everything to do with this discussion. So why don't you go back and read what other Templars have said before you start a new thread.
Actually ontop of that, majority of "experienced" players agree it's too much.
I am experienced, that is why I don't die to it
Seriously, it isnt an overpowered skill. Range is easily fixed by the fact that venom arrow and crushing shock both have identicle ranges to it, 28 meters. If you pick more damage over interupt, that is a conscious choice to hope you can burn them before you get burned.
If it is the high amount of damage, it barely hits worth anything above 50%, and still isn't anything special until 30ish percent. Not to mention wards stop any crit, and bone shield/annulment are great for giving you a couple seconds to heal up and make it worthless again. And you can block the damage (still trying to figure out the whys as to that)
If it is the fact that they can stand back and use it from safety, ANY move (especially the two counters to RD I mentioned) is as annoying. Imagine a sniper NB, or a crushing shock spamming Sorc at 28 meters shooting you while you're fighting others. That'll still kill you, and faster since they hit harder the first 70ish percent of your health so the stam dk in front of you can just leap or executioner you. Not only that, but you can use LOS to break it and make smaller engagements. Win against the aforementioned DK while the templar is repositioning and exit from behind the tree/rock with and evil grin.
If it is that 5 RD beas on you gives you no chance, then the same logic should be applied to ALL moves that deal good damage if 5 people spam them. Hint, that is a majority of moves in the game.
The only thing I could see irritation about is that it is undodgeable. But if you stack ALL your defensive capabilities into one type of defense (dodge chance and dodge roll), then there has to be a counter or that is OP as all hell.
Not trying to be rude man, just saying there are valid, easy ways to deal with a beam play that font involve nerf in the class itself.
Dealing with 1 or 2 beams is fine, nothing that bad about it really.
But having someone beam you in the back while you're trying to take on 1 or 2 people and having that person just spam beam on you is just absolutely pathetic. That is the main point of this thread, and I've done this to see what it's like, I know it's pathetic. And just shouldn't even be a thing.
Having 4 on you at once you will not survive in light armor for the most part, the damage it deals and increases and with the range. It's just too much.
Every other skill being spammed on me is quite easy to deal with. Beam is just so strong in this regard, if you remember back in the day they put a cap on beam, if 1 person was using it on you only 1 person would get execute damage. This was a nice way of dealing with things too, but it hurt in pve so they removed it. I wish they brought it back only to work in Cyrodill.
You need to reread OP, I'm pointing out the fact the pathetic and toxic gameplay this skill is bringing out in PvP, ruining it. Not that it deals too much damage above execute or anything like that. But beam is just getting a little out of control using it above 40% and waiting for targets to hit lower health
I don't see where I got personal, but sorry you feel that way.
At any rate, I can't take the comment of "its when I'm fighting others and a beam hits me" and even worse (imo) "when 4 or more players use this ability on me" seriously. Balance is balance.
As for toxic, you're fighting a losing battle. Malubeth, CE, keep jumping, emp sharing, AP boosting, gate camping (the previous from my own alliance, which honestly makes it even worse), hate whispers, yelling at each other in zone chat, and the general cheese that changes every patch have taught me there isn't jack **** I can do about plyer toxicity in this game =(
3 -
juhasman✭✭✭✭I love comments where people are arguing they're risking using RD because the're slowed and can take more dmg. Someone is not know about Cyrodills light changes yet...1
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Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@Nifty2g you think RD creates toxic gameplay in this infinite root/snare bombard and negate stacking meta?
I'm curious to know what kind of PvP you do. Do you run solo or in a group?Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT2 -
maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Dealing with 1 or 2 beams is fine, nothing that bad about it really.
But having someone beam you in the back while you're trying to take on 1 or 2 people and having that person just spam beam on you is just absolutely pathetic. That is the main point of this thread, and I've done this to see what it's like, I know it's pathetic
What's pathetic is you even making this out to be a thing. There are plenty of skills that would take you out while you are fighting 1-2 people. That's the point. You die in pvp when you are outnumbered and/or when someone is sniping you from range. What a terrible argument!5 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
May as well fight the good fight in fixing the toxicity in this game instead of leaving it and having people defend it.DocFrost72 wrote: »
Since you decided to make this personal for whatever reasonDocFrost72 wrote: »
Majority of Templars, the "experienced" ones agree that it's too much...
I've probably put about 20 days game time into PvP or a bit more, that really has nothing to do with the discussion. I can clearly see when something is so unbalanced
I main a Templar in PvE, I can assure you, this change wont hurt it but would balance out PvP a lot betternordsavage wrote: »More pvp whining that ends up hurting pve. Radiant Destruction is the least of what breaks pvp I can assure you.
But you don't really pvp.
20 days?! And you really think you can see clearly? I beg to differ. Play pvp a bit more and get a bigger picture of what goes on. And till then, go back and read comments of experienced pvp Templars. There are differences of opinions, but the general consensus is that given our lack of mobility, the fact that a channel not only snares us, but leaves us open to interrupts, and that it is the only skill that hard counters shuffle/dodge spammers...it is working as intended. Heck, even the Devs have said that it is working as intended.
So yeah, your lack of experience as a pvp player has everything to do with this discussion. So why don't you go back and read what other Templars have said before you start a new thread.
Actually ontop of that, majority of "experienced" players agree it's too much.
I am experienced, that is why I don't die to it
Seriously, it isnt an overpowered skill. Range is easily fixed by the fact that venom arrow and crushing shock both have identicle ranges to it, 28 meters. If you pick more damage over interupt, that is a conscious choice to hope you can burn them before you get burned.
If it is the high amount of damage, it barely hits worth anything above 50%, and still isn't anything special until 30ish percent. Not to mention wards stop any crit, and bone shield/annulment are great for giving you a couple seconds to heal up and make it worthless again. And you can block the damage (still trying to figure out the whys as to that)
If it is the fact that they can stand back and use it from safety, ANY move (especially the two counters to RD I mentioned) is as annoying. Imagine a sniper NB, or a crushing shock spamming Sorc at 28 meters shooting you while you're fighting others. That'll still kill you, and faster since they hit harder the first 70ish percent of your health so the stam dk in front of you can just leap or executioner you. Not only that, but you can use LOS to break it and make smaller engagements. Win against the aforementioned DK while the templar is repositioning and exit from behind the tree/rock with and evil grin.
If it is that 5 RD beas on you gives you no chance, then the same logic should be applied to ALL moves that deal good damage if 5 people spam them. Hint, that is a majority of moves in the game.
The only thing I could see irritation about is that it is undodgeable. But if you stack ALL your defensive capabilities into one type of defense (dodge chance and dodge roll), then there has to be a counter or that is OP as all hell.
Not trying to be rude man, just saying there are valid, easy ways to deal with a beam play that font involve nerf in the class itself.
Dealing with 1 or 2 beams is fine, nothing that bad about it really.
But having someone beam you in the back while you're trying to take on 1 or 2 people and having that person just spam beam on you is just absolutely pathetic. That is the main point of this thread, and I've done this to see what it's like, I know it's pathetic. And just shouldn't even be a thing.
Having 4 on you at once you will not survive in light armor for the most part, the damage it deals and increases and with the range. It's just too much.
Every other skill being spammed on me is quite easy to deal with. Beam is just so strong in this regard, if you remember back in the day they put a cap on beam, if 1 person was using it on you only 1 person would get execute damage. This was a nice way of dealing with things too, but it hurt in pve so they removed it. I wish they brought it back only to work in Cyrodill.
You need to reread OP, I'm pointing out the fact the pathetic and toxic gameplay this skill is bringing out in PvP, ruining it. Not that it deals too much damage above execute or anything like that. But beam is just getting a little out of control using it above 40% and waiting for targets to hit lower health
I don't see where I got personal, but sorry you feel that way.
At any rate, I can't take the comment of "its when I'm fighting others and a beam hits me" and even worse (imo) "when 4 or more players use this ability on me" seriously. Balance is balance.
As for toxic, you're fighting a losing battle. Malubeth, CE, keep jumping, emp sharing, AP boosting, gate camping (the previous from my own alliance, which honestly makes it even worse), hate whispers, yelling at each other in zone chat, and the general cheese that changes every patch have taught me there isn't jack **** I can do about plyer toxicity in this game =(
I don't want beam changes because I main a templar, but in terms of balance, I want the game to have some nice balance in it.
Beam really never used to be this bad#MOREORBS1 -
juhasman✭✭✭✭
Dealing with 1 or 2 beams is fine, nothing that bad about it really.
But having someone beam you in the back while you're trying to take on 1 or 2 people and having that person just spam beam on you is just absolutely pathetic. That is the main point of this thread, and I've done this to see what it's like, I know it's pathetic
What's pathetic is you even making this out to be a thing. There are plenty of skills that would take you out while you are fighting 1-2 people. That's the point. You die in pvp when you are outnumbered and/or when someone is sniping you from range. What a terrible argument!
@maxjapank But are those skills also executes? Because that's the main problem of Radiant. It's execute ability and kills people more effective then other spammable non execute ones.Edited by juhasman on July 8, 2016 3:06PM4 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
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Can't stand the snare meta Wrobel has been giving this game, I stay away from large groups@Nifty2g you think RD creates toxic gameplay in this infinite root/snare bombard and negate stacking meta?
I'm curious to know what kind of PvP you do. Do you run solo or in a group?
I like duo or small grouping
No, THIS is a pathetic argument, just because you are outnumbered does not mean you are going to die. What kind of crap is that? Stop forcing the game into Zerg v Zerg metas
Dealing with 1 or 2 beams is fine, nothing that bad about it really.
But having someone beam you in the back while you're trying to take on 1 or 2 people and having that person just spam beam on you is just absolutely pathetic. That is the main point of this thread, and I've done this to see what it's like, I know it's pathetic
What's pathetic is you even making this out to be a thing. There are plenty of skills that would take you out while you are fighting 1-2 people. That's the point. You die in pvp when you are outnumbered and/or when someone is sniping you from range. What a terrible argument!#MOREORBS6 -
Cryhavoc✭✭✭For what it's worth, I completely agree on a "re-balancing" of Radiant.
I use it in PvP. I have to use it or be at a disadvantage. It is my only range attack, as everything else I have has a cast time or is dodgeable. I need to proc my Dawn's Wrath passives. Besides, it is the most effective range attack I have as a Magicka Templar (even at full health).
Here are a few reasons why I use it at full health:
1. Marking targets: What is better than a massive laser to mark targets?
2. Keep defense: hit them and they back up, or die
3. Fear and doubt: sometimes I start with a RD and lead into a Toppling charge, it works like an emotional CC
Do I like this?
No
I would rather use Dark Flare, but... Cast time/Dodge/Reflects
Or Javelin, but....see above
I would rather have Blinding flashes!2 -
WillhelmBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I've stopped playing my main (magicka Templar) this patch, it's just way too easy to play. I steered clear of Malubeth, tried it once, died twice in 6hrs of PvP, slightly OP, but allowed me to get extremely drunk and kill hundreds of people with little effort. If you take away that set and Transmutation, Magicka Templar is actually pretty balanced except Radiant Destruction and the healing is still a bit over tuned.
So for reasons above I'm playing other classes right now so people think I'm not some Fotmplar. It's just kinda hard when 3-4 Templars with magelight are chasing you round fields spamming J Beam up your arse or you find one on their own but they just stand there laughing at you blocking and healing til someone else comes along, CC's you and then the Templar J Beams you in the face.
Just wanted to add, adding spell power to heavy armour was one of @Wrobel 's worst decisions.Edited by WillhelmBlack on July 8, 2016 3:03PMPC EU1 -
DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
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May as well fight the good fight in fixing the toxicity in this game instead of leaving it and having people defend it.DocFrost72 wrote: »
Since you decided to make this personal for whatever reasonDocFrost72 wrote: »
Majority of Templars, the "experienced" ones agree that it's too much...
I've probably put about 20 days game time into PvP or a bit more, that really has nothing to do with the discussion. I can clearly see when something is so unbalanced
I main a Templar in PvE, I can assure you, this change wont hurt it but would balance out PvP a lot betternordsavage wrote: »More pvp whining that ends up hurting pve. Radiant Destruction is the least of what breaks pvp I can assure you.
But you don't really pvp.
20 days?! And you really think you can see clearly? I beg to differ. Play pvp a bit more and get a bigger picture of what goes on. And till then, go back and read comments of experienced pvp Templars. There are differences of opinions, but the general consensus is that given our lack of mobility, the fact that a channel not only snares us, but leaves us open to interrupts, and that it is the only skill that hard counters shuffle/dodge spammers...it is working as intended. Heck, even the Devs have said that it is working as intended.
So yeah, your lack of experience as a pvp player has everything to do with this discussion. So why don't you go back and read what other Templars have said before you start a new thread.
Actually ontop of that, majority of "experienced" players agree it's too much.
I am experienced, that is why I don't die to it
Seriously, it isnt an overpowered skill. Range is easily fixed by the fact that venom arrow and crushing shock both have identicle ranges to it, 28 meters. If you pick more damage over interupt, that is a conscious choice to hope you can burn them before you get burned.
If it is the high amount of damage, it barely hits worth anything above 50%, and still isn't anything special until 30ish percent. Not to mention wards stop any crit, and bone shield/annulment are great for giving you a couple seconds to heal up and make it worthless again. And you can block the damage (still trying to figure out the whys as to that)
If it is the fact that they can stand back and use it from safety, ANY move (especially the two counters to RD I mentioned) is as annoying. Imagine a sniper NB, or a crushing shock spamming Sorc at 28 meters shooting you while you're fighting others. That'll still kill you, and faster since they hit harder the first 70ish percent of your health so the stam dk in front of you can just leap or executioner you. Not only that, but you can use LOS to break it and make smaller engagements. Win against the aforementioned DK while the templar is repositioning and exit from behind the tree/rock with and evil grin.
If it is that 5 RD beas on you gives you no chance, then the same logic should be applied to ALL moves that deal good damage if 5 people spam them. Hint, that is a majority of moves in the game.
The only thing I could see irritation about is that it is undodgeable. But if you stack ALL your defensive capabilities into one type of defense (dodge chance and dodge roll), then there has to be a counter or that is OP as all hell.
Not trying to be rude man, just saying there are valid, easy ways to deal with a beam play that font involve nerf in the class itself.
Dealing with 1 or 2 beams is fine, nothing that bad about it really.
But having someone beam you in the back while you're trying to take on 1 or 2 people and having that person just spam beam on you is just absolutely pathetic. That is the main point of this thread, and I've done this to see what it's like, I know it's pathetic. And just shouldn't even be a thing.
Having 4 on you at once you will not survive in light armor for the most part, the damage it deals and increases and with the range. It's just too much.
Every other skill being spammed on me is quite easy to deal with. Beam is just so strong in this regard, if you remember back in the day they put a cap on beam, if 1 person was using it on you only 1 person would get execute damage. This was a nice way of dealing with things too, but it hurt in pve so they removed it. I wish they brought it back only to work in Cyrodill.
You need to reread OP, I'm pointing out the fact the pathetic and toxic gameplay this skill is bringing out in PvP, ruining it. Not that it deals too much damage above execute or anything like that. But beam is just getting a little out of control using it above 40% and waiting for targets to hit lower health
I don't see where I got personal, but sorry you feel that way.
At any rate, I can't take the comment of "its when I'm fighting others and a beam hits me" and even worse (imo) "when 4 or more players use this ability on me" seriously. Balance is balance.
As for toxic, you're fighting a losing battle. Malubeth, CE, keep jumping, emp sharing, AP boosting, gate camping (the previous from my own alliance, which honestly makes it even worse), hate whispers, yelling at each other in zone chat, and the general cheese that changes every patch have taught me there isn't jack **** I can do about plyer toxicity in this game =(
I don't want beam changes because I main a templar, but in terms of balance, I want the game to have some nice balance in it.
Beam really never used to be this bad
My issue perhaps is that I am getting too hung up on the 1vX element of this. And for the record I would be fine with a universal execute syst where it deals a flat amount at 25% or less, because in PvE it is typically a DPS loss to activate any execute before then.
But range is mitigated by options already available, and I'd actually like to see more undodgeable skills, not less. Fear goes through block, RD goes through roll. Fear is universally accessible, RD is available through one class and only magicka.1 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
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Dealing with 1 or 2 beams is fine, nothing that bad about it really.
But having someone beam you in the back while you're trying to take on 1 or 2 people and having that person just spam beam on you is just absolutely pathetic. That is the main point of this thread, and I've done this to see what it's like, I know it's pathetic
What's pathetic is you even making this out to be a thing. There are plenty of skills that would take you out while you are fighting 1-2 people. That's the point. You die in pvp when you are outnumbered and/or when someone is sniping you from range. What a terrible argument!
But are those skills also executes? Because that's the main problem of Radiant. It's execute ability and kills people more effective then other spammable non execute ones.
I'd like to see some of the other Templar killing blows sheet.#MOREORBS1 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
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I'm curious to know what kind of PvP you do.
From what I can tell his style of PvP is trying and failing to 1vX 5 players at once.V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)4 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
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Can't stand the snare meta Wrobel has been giving this game, I stay away from large groups@Nifty2g you think RD creates toxic gameplay in this infinite root/snare bombard and negate stacking meta?
I'm curious to know what kind of PvP you do. Do you run solo or in a group?
I like duo or small grouping
No, THIS is a pathetic argument, just because you are outnumbered does not mean you are going to die. What kind of crap is that? Stop forcing the game into Zerg v Zerg metas
Dealing with 1 or 2 beams is fine, nothing that bad about it really.
But having someone beam you in the back while you're trying to take on 1 or 2 people and having that person just spam beam on you is just absolutely pathetic. That is the main point of this thread, and I've done this to see what it's like, I know it's pathetic
What's pathetic is you even making this out to be a thing. There are plenty of skills that would take you out while you are fighting 1-2 people. That's the point. You die in pvp when you are outnumbered and/or when someone is sniping you from range. What a terrible argument!
TBH RD shouldn't be giving you issues in small groups. Especially if those groups are 6 or less as you guys will actually have group-wide access to the Purge (which is STILL egregiously broken). The only time RD is ever a problem for me is if I'm running solo and I have a couple of people RDing me while a couple more are bombarding me. I want to point out, however, that in that scenario although it is RD that may have actually killed me, I would blame the death on Bombard for preventing my ability to LoS.
If you are dying to RD spam in small groups then you guys need to focus on more purges and more rapids so you can LoS around things better. If you want you can come play with us sometime--I think you'll find that RD spam is responsible for less deaths than Bombard/Negate/Focused Aim spam.
Edited by Kilandros on July 8, 2016 3:09PMInvictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT4 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
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Again, I think you are missing the point of the main post. And for what it's worth, beams are not hurting me at the moment. I'm mainly posting about the terrible gameplay it brings, and in general, its pretty much an inevitable death and is the cause for most deaths when dealing with multiple targets and a beamer.
Can't stand the snare meta Wrobel has been giving this game, I stay away from large groups@Nifty2g you think RD creates toxic gameplay in this infinite root/snare bombard and negate stacking meta?
I'm curious to know what kind of PvP you do. Do you run solo or in a group?
I like duo or small grouping
No, THIS is a pathetic argument, just because you are outnumbered does not mean you are going to die. What kind of crap is that? Stop forcing the game into Zerg v Zerg metas
Dealing with 1 or 2 beams is fine, nothing that bad about it really.
But having someone beam you in the back while you're trying to take on 1 or 2 people and having that person just spam beam on you is just absolutely pathetic. That is the main point of this thread, and I've done this to see what it's like, I know it's pathetic
What's pathetic is you even making this out to be a thing. There are plenty of skills that would take you out while you are fighting 1-2 people. That's the point. You die in pvp when you are outnumbered and/or when someone is sniping you from range. What a terrible argument!
TBH RD shouldn't be giving you issues in small groups. Especially if those groups are 6 or less as you guys will actually have group-wide access to the Purge (which is STILL egregiously broken). The only time RD is ever a problem for me is if I'm running solo and I have a couple of people RDing me while a couple more are bombarding me.
If you are dying to RD spam in small groups then you guys need to focus on more purges and more rapids so you can LoS around things better. If you want you can come play with us sometime--I think you'll find that RD spam is responsible for less deaths than Bombard/Negate/Focused Aim spam.Edited by Nifty2g on July 8, 2016 3:12PM#MOREORBS1 -
Munavar✭✭✭@Nifty2g,
You are a very good and knowledgeable player as evident by your achievements and previous discourse; but in this case you critique are based on a flawed premise. Four or five executes should kill you in quick fashion.“…1 or 2 are fine to handle but more often than not you are faced with about 4 or 5 beams at once,
there is no counter to that, it desyncs your health and as soon as you hit 40% health you are dead. …”
I suspect that your number of deaths in a PvP session is not going up; it is just that they are more ‘flashy’.
For what is worth, most of my deaths come from Ambush spam. Most of the execute abilities get ‘abused’. The recent correction to Wrecking Blow reduced its frequency (though Dizzying Swings crops up now {but not nearly as often}).
Dae - TM1 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
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I have high doubts that 4 or 5 executes at once will kill me as fast as 4 or 5 beams at one will.@Nifty2g,
You are a very good and knowledgeable player as evident by your achievements and previous discourse; but in this case you critique are based on a flawed premise. Four or five executes should kill you in quick fashion.“…1 or 2 are fine to handle but more often than not you are faced with about 4 or 5 beams at once,
there is no counter to that, it desyncs your health and as soon as you hit 40% health you are dead. …”
I suspect that your number of deaths in a PvP session is not going up; it is just that they are more ‘flashy’.
For what is worth, most of my deaths come from Ambush spam. Most of the execute abilities get ‘abused’. The recent correction to Wrecking Blow reduced its frequency (though Dizzying Swings crops up now {but not nearly as often}).#MOREORBS0 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
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Again, I think you are missing the point of the main post. And for what it's worth, beams are not hurting me at the moment. I'm mainly posting about the terrible gameplay it brings, and in general, its pretty much an inevitable death and is the cause for most deaths when dealing with multiple targets and a beamer.
Can't stand the snare meta Wrobel has been giving this game, I stay away from large groups@Nifty2g you think RD creates toxic gameplay in this infinite root/snare bombard and negate stacking meta?
I'm curious to know what kind of PvP you do. Do you run solo or in a group?
I like duo or small grouping
No, THIS is a pathetic argument, just because you are outnumbered does not mean you are going to die. What kind of crap is that? Stop forcing the game into Zerg v Zerg metas
Dealing with 1 or 2 beams is fine, nothing that bad about it really.
But having someone beam you in the back while you're trying to take on 1 or 2 people and having that person just spam beam on you is just absolutely pathetic. That is the main point of this thread, and I've done this to see what it's like, I know it's pathetic
What's pathetic is you even making this out to be a thing. There are plenty of skills that would take you out while you are fighting 1-2 people. That's the point. You die in pvp when you are outnumbered and/or when someone is sniping you from range. What a terrible argument!
TBH RD shouldn't be giving you issues in small groups. Especially if those groups are 6 or less as you guys will actually have group-wide access to the Purge (which is STILL egregiously broken). The only time RD is ever a problem for me is if I'm running solo and I have a couple of people RDing me while a couple more are bombarding me.
If you are dying to RD spam in small groups then you guys need to focus on more purges and more rapids so you can LoS around things better. If you want you can come play with us sometime--I think you'll find that RD spam is responsible for less deaths than Bombard/Negate/Focused Aim spam.
I didn't miss the point. You're saying it creates toxic gameplay. My counter point is that RD is actually quite easy to counter in most situations. Unlike, for example, Negate to which often the only counter is another Negate.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT2 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
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Sure it's easy to counter, but I'm not talking about the person being attacked. I'm talking about the user. And there are lot of players around who roam around and just beam targets at full health until they die. That is the toxic game play I am addressing.
Again, I think you are missing the point of the main post. And for what it's worth, beams are not hurting me at the moment. I'm mainly posting about the terrible gameplay it brings, and in general, its pretty much an inevitable death and is the cause for most deaths when dealing with multiple targets and a beamer.
Can't stand the snare meta Wrobel has been giving this game, I stay away from large groups@Nifty2g you think RD creates toxic gameplay in this infinite root/snare bombard and negate stacking meta?
I'm curious to know what kind of PvP you do. Do you run solo or in a group?
I like duo or small grouping
No, THIS is a pathetic argument, just because you are outnumbered does not mean you are going to die. What kind of crap is that? Stop forcing the game into Zerg v Zerg metas
Dealing with 1 or 2 beams is fine, nothing that bad about it really.
But having someone beam you in the back while you're trying to take on 1 or 2 people and having that person just spam beam on you is just absolutely pathetic. That is the main point of this thread, and I've done this to see what it's like, I know it's pathetic
What's pathetic is you even making this out to be a thing. There are plenty of skills that would take you out while you are fighting 1-2 people. That's the point. You die in pvp when you are outnumbered and/or when someone is sniping you from range. What a terrible argument!
TBH RD shouldn't be giving you issues in small groups. Especially if those groups are 6 or less as you guys will actually have group-wide access to the Purge (which is STILL egregiously broken). The only time RD is ever a problem for me is if I'm running solo and I have a couple of people RDing me while a couple more are bombarding me.
If you are dying to RD spam in small groups then you guys need to focus on more purges and more rapids so you can LoS around things better. If you want you can come play with us sometime--I think you'll find that RD spam is responsible for less deaths than Bombard/Negate/Focused Aim spam.
I didn't miss the point. You're saying it creates toxic gameplay. My counter point is that RD is actually quite easy to counter in most situations. Unlike, for example, Negate to which often the only counter is another Negate.#MOREORBS0 -
juhasman✭✭✭✭
I have high doubts that 4 or 5 executes at once will kill me as fast as 4 or 5 beams at one will.@Nifty2g,
You are a very good and knowledgeable player as evident by your achievements and previous discourse; but in this case you critique are based on a flawed premise. Four or five executes should kill you in quick fashion.“…1 or 2 are fine to handle but more often than not you are faced with about 4 or 5 beams at once,
there is no counter to that, it desyncs your health and as soon as you hit 40% health you are dead. …”
I suspect that your number of deaths in a PvP session is not going up; it is just that they are more ‘flashy’.
For what is worth, most of my deaths come from Ambush spam. Most of the execute abilities get ‘abused’. The recent correction to Wrecking Blow reduced its frequency (though Dizzying Swings crops up now {but not nearly as often}).
Yeah all other executes doing about 2-2,5k crit dmg above 25% RD doing up to 4k when it's above 50% so I also have doubts Edited by juhasman on July 8, 2016 3:25PM0 -
Rec✭✭Sallington wrote: »Just start by making it dodgeable, and take it from there.
Or give it Dark Flare's cast time, and make Dark Flare instant cast (or have a proc like Frags)
Agreed and make it like other executes so you pop it on your target when they are at or below 25 percent hp not 50.Edited by Rec on July 8, 2016 3:30PM0