UPDATE: Zenimax official statment of gap closers being an exploit in here

rfennell_ESO · July 2016

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

MoreDino wrote: »

How does one go about looking up and pressing your gap closer hotkey accidentally? Usually I'm aware enough to know what keybinds are my range attacks/defensive abilities.

On my Templar, I have Healing Ward in slot 3 and then Toppling Charge in the same spot on my other bar. There have been a number of times where swap has failed and I've charged someone instead of casting ward. With lag, this can happen.

So you find yourself looking up from the postern house steps and pressing healing ward a lot?

zyk · July 2016

MoreDino wrote: »

How does one go about looking up and pressing your gap closer hotkey accidentally? Usually I'm aware enough to know what keybinds are my range attacks/defensive abilities.

What a ridiculous question. Mistakes happen. Playing this game optimally requires a lot of keystrokes and button presses [executed at a fast rate].

And yes, if there are opponents on a wall our outpost deck while I'm fighting below it, I am probably looking at them to make sure they're not shooting at me or trying to pour flaming oil on my head.

It should go without saying that no one should be banned for isolated incidents.

KisoValley · July 2016

Funny how all the guys arguing for people to be banned for gap closing up a wall completely ignore when other people post that ZOS knew about the bug DAY 1 on the PTS.

Guess they forget how to read when a post that proves ZOS are to blame pops up.

MoreDino · July 2016

zyk wrote: »

What a ridiculous question. Mistakes happen. Playing this game optimally requires a lot of keystrokes and button presses.

And yes, if there are opponents on a wall our outpost deck while I'm fighting below it, I am probably looking at them to make sure they're not shooting at me or trying to pour flaming oil on my head.

It should go without saying that no one should be banned for isolated incidents.

I'm typically down on ground level whether on offense or defense. Yes, I look up to see what's going on because I'm smart enough to be aware of my surroundings. I also (even in extreme lag) am aware of which bar I'm using when I'm pressing buttons.

For what it's worth, I'm not trying to say accidents can't or won't happen because they do and will. But using said accidents is a weak excuse at best. If it really is an issue for you, perhaps rearrange your hotbars so you don't make that sort of a mistake.

As for the last bit, I agree completely.

NovaShadow · July 2016

Nifty2g wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone,

We are working on making some tweaks to certain gap closers that players are using to bypass core keep capture mechanics. It is not intended that gap closers be used to enter keeps without downing doors and/or walls, or enter areas you otherwise would not be able to without exploiting (below Dolmens, under water, etc.) While we are aware that players are using certain gap closers to do exactly these things, we do considered this behavior an exploit.

If you see another player exploiting in this manner, you can send us videos or other evidence by submitting a customer support ticket, by sending them to anyone on the Community or Moderation team here on the forums, or emailing us at community@elderscrollsonline.com.

Thank you!

But what happens if a new player not familiar with eso or a player who doesn't use forums walks into cyrodill all happy like and then happens to get onto a jeep but gets mass reported

Said player probably won't be happy about that, cause he or she might think it's just an added mechanic. I'm sure this happens quite a lot or is going to happen from now on

This is the worst case scenario, but a new player having used a gap closer in PvE and not flown around the world would use it in PvP and be like hmm thats strange.

Then ask, hey is this legit?

Then people say, nah, its bugged, don't do it.

Then they don't do it.

They don't get emperor and then troll kill hundreds of people inside a keep.

These are not the same

Judging from all the posts in here and what was even said "cheating is cheating"
I'd say yes they are the same

This is why personal with this sort of bug I don't think zos should start banning for it, because some people are doing it unintentionally

Also no one uses gap closers in pve, and when you think about it logically dragon leaping into a keep sounds like a mechanic and so does teleport strike onto a keep sounds like a mechanic.

I'm all for sorting exploits out but with one like this there's going to be a lot of innocents banned

Does this include yourself?

Because I just saw you on Roe outer wall on TF, a red keep that was NOT under attack with an AD that was seen by several EP exploiting his way to the inner wall.

So, if what you just said is how you feel then you're one of these 'innocents' right? You 'accidentally' found yourself on the outer wall and shouldn't be banned for that.

The double standards are strong.

AJ_1988 · July 2016

Ya know what's BS being leaped onto from more than 50 metres away. I know this as I couldn't hit him with a range of 48 metres. Pvp has just become pathetic because of all the exploits.

Turelus · July 2016

KisoValley wrote: »

Funny how all the guys arguing for people to be banned for gap closing up a wall completely ignore when other people post that ZOS knew about the bug DAY 1 on the PTS.

Guess they forget how to read when a post that proves ZOS are to blame pops up.

Check the Cheats/Exploits thread and any post I have made.

Many are aware of ZOS letting this into the game and agree it was bad game design. However that's no excuse for players to go free for abusing it. Accidentally jumping on a wall could happen, but then you can hop off again and play fair.

Robbmrp · July 2016

Lyar09 wrote: »

You all have voiced your opinions but really need a reality check and need to chill. Anything in this game that is deemed to "not working as intended" is an exploit. I'm sure every last one of you at this point has used something that wasn't working as intended. Malubeth, nirn back in 1.6, the axe bleed....the list goes on and on. I don't really blame the players for this issue. It's 100% zos and it's sad that it takes them 3-6 months to "fix" said exploits.

@Lyar09 while I agree with you that at some point everyone has used an exploit, I disagree with you that it's ALL Zenimax's issue. Yes, Zenimax made the skill and has to fix it but It's a personal choice to use a skill that a player knows full well shouldn't be doing what it does. Just because it's in the game not working correctly doesn't mean that we should use it. That's a choice that we have to make.

Any player making the choice to use the exploits is taking that chance that they could possibly get action taken against then. Possibly even banned. They know that full well going into their choices and still choose do use the exploit. I don't feel sorry for them. I pity them really. That they had to make that decision when they could have easily chosen not to. A bunch of us in the game don't use these broken mechanics for that specific reason. It's our choice.

Fixing these kinds of things take time unfortunately. The problem is we live in a day and age where we expect things to be done NOW, NOW, NOW. Waiting for something is just unheard of and a burden to us. I am with you on the game fixes and wish they could be done sooner than later but the fact remains, it will get fixed when it's ready and been tested.

rfennell_ESO · July 2016

Robbmrp wrote: »

Lyar09 wrote: »

You all have voiced your opinions but really need a reality check and need to chill. Anything in this game that is deemed to "not working as intended" is an exploit. I'm sure every last one of you at this point has used something that wasn't working as intended. Malubeth, nirn back in 1.6, the axe bleed....the list goes on and on. I don't really blame the players for this issue. It's 100% zos and it's sad that it takes them 3-6 months to "fix" said exploits.

@Lyar09 while I agree with you that at some point everyone has used an exploit, I disagree with you that it's ALL Zenimax's issue. Yes, Zenimax made the skill and has to fix it but It's a personal choice to use a skill that a player knows full well shouldn't be doing what it does. Just because it's in the game not working correctly doesn't mean that we should use it. That's a choice that we have to make.

Any player making the choice to use the exploits is taking that chance that they could possibly get action taken against then. Possibly even banned. They know that full well going into their choices and still choose do use the exploit. I don't feel sorry for them. I pity them really. That they had to make that decision when they could have easily chosen not to. A bunch of us in the game don't use these broken mechanics for that specific reason. It's our choice.

Fixing these kinds of things take time unfortunately. The problem is we live in a day and age where we expect things to be done NOW, NOW, NOW. Waiting for something is just unheard of and a burden to us. I am with you on the game fixes and wish they could be done sooner than later but the fact remains, it will get fixed when it's ready and been tested.

Yah the main issue is the players that have the goal of using exploits or anything for an advantage.

Only point about your post past that is direction. In this case direction toward one of them, if you know what I mean. They (he) don't care, they will keep doing it and doing it.

The reason why they all fall back on it's 100% ZOS' fault (or in their case ZOS's fault because they don't understand grammar at all, even in their own names).. well the reason simply is that if it's 100% ZOS' fault is 0% their fault. Blame shifted, innocence established.

Fact is that those that exploit as policy need to go. They need to be banned and they need be banned permanently. They are well aware of what they are doing, made evident by their endless attempting to shift blame from themselves to anything else.

Lyar09 · July 2016

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Robbmrp wrote: »

Lyar09 wrote: »

You all have voiced your opinions but really need a reality check and need to chill. Anything in this game that is deemed to "not working as intended" is an exploit. I'm sure every last one of you at this point has used something that wasn't working as intended. Malubeth, nirn back in 1.6, the axe bleed....the list goes on and on. I don't really blame the players for this issue. It's 100% zos and it's sad that it takes them 3-6 months to "fix" said exploits.

@Lyar09 while I agree with you that at some point everyone has used an exploit, I disagree with you that it's ALL Zenimax's issue. Yes, Zenimax made the skill and has to fix it but It's a personal choice to use a skill that a player knows full well shouldn't be doing what it does. Just because it's in the game not working correctly doesn't mean that we should use it. That's a choice that we have to make.

Any player making the choice to use the exploits is taking that chance that they could possibly get action taken against then. Possibly even banned. They know that full well going into their choices and still choose do use the exploit. I don't feel sorry for them. I pity them really. That they had to make that decision when they could have easily chosen not to. A bunch of us in the game don't use these broken mechanics for that specific reason. It's our choice.

Fixing these kinds of things take time unfortunately. The problem is we live in a day and age where we expect things to be done NOW, NOW, NOW. Waiting for something is just unheard of and a burden to us. I am with you on the game fixes and wish they could be done sooner than later but the fact remains, it will get fixed when it's ready and been tested.

Yah the main issue is the players that have the goal of using exploits or anything for an advantage.

Only point about your post past that is direction. In this case direction toward one of them, if you know what I mean. They (he) don't care, they will keep doing it and doing it.

The reason why they all fall back on it's 100% ZOS' fault (or in their case ZOS's fault because they don't understand grammar at all, even in their own names).. well the reason simply is that if it's 100% ZOS' fault is 0% their fault. Blame shifted, innocence established.

Fact is that those that exploit as policy need to go. They need to be banned and they need be banned permanently. They are well aware of what they are doing, made evident by their endless attempting to shift blame from themselves to anything else.

You are constantly insinuating that I am a cheater. Get over yourself. I haven't once used this exploit or any for that matter, yet you continue to call me out. Still waiting on the so called shuffle exploit video by the way. Haven't heard much about shuffle these days and there were no changes in any patch notes about it. What's your claim now? This guilt by association mentality you have is immature and asinine.

What's your deal? Did I 1vX you or something?

rfennell_ESO · July 2016

If the guilty are innocent, obviously the innocent have to be guilty...

Rubixy · July 2016

yodased wrote: »

All day today, all day yesterday. Literally right now.

Blue emp clearly exploiting gap into both levels of keep.

Has pocket healer with him, obviously has yellow friend helping him.

I had a conversation with this person and they said, it has been in the game so long that it may as well be intended. Also they said, it's not like this helps me take keeps.

He then proceeded to exploit into BloodMayne and take it with his healer, so I have a question @ZOS_BrianWheeler, why is this ok?

What do you plan on doing about the fact that the emperor of a campaign is clearly cheating this blatantly?

Yes, reported and I begged everyone else to report as well but, what the actual heck?

@zos_JessicaFolsom please don't bury this, i mean come on

Edited for profanity

If i leap into a keep and kill people and get banned from it so be it, take flight is litteraly made to that, if u dont want me in there, dont act like idiots on the ledge. With how overpowered siege is at the moment strategic infultration into keeps is fine by me.

Now dont get me wrong when someone else lets you in thats an exploit and thats why in game admins need to be a thing, dont just throw out ban hammers and threats, at least pretend to give a damn about this game's future

I know logic is usualy toppled by the many that just want to make this game easier but for once zennimax think about what your next step is.

-bixy

Sandman929 · July 2016

Take Flight made me do it...that's just awesome.

Cinnamon_Spider · July 2016

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

MoreDino wrote: »

How does one go about looking up and pressing your gap closer hotkey accidentally? Usually I'm aware enough to know what keybinds are my range attacks/defensive abilities.

On my Templar, I have Healing Ward in slot 3 and then Toppling Charge in the same spot on my other bar. There have been a number of times where swap has failed and I've charged someone instead of casting ward. With lag, this can happen.

So you find yourself looking up from the postern house steps and pressing healing ward a lot?

I find myself looking for people to beam and needing to heal their attacks.

ginoboehm · July 2016

I think it is a complete joke and a disgrace that some carebear PvP players actually get zenimax attention and people banned about a bug zose left in the game for month while if you get killed by players jumping the wall you deserve to die. Learn to defend yourself or use a escape with the current performance of siege and the los healing you should have no problem. Zenimax unbanned cheaters and you want people banned about some silly stuff zose doesn't fix for 3 month now

Sandman929 · July 2016

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

MoreDino wrote: »

How does one go about looking up and pressing your gap closer hotkey accidentally? Usually I'm aware enough to know what keybinds are my range attacks/defensive abilities.

On my Templar, I have Healing Ward in slot 3 and then Toppling Charge in the same spot on my other bar. There have been a number of times where swap has failed and I've charged someone instead of casting ward. With lag, this can happen.

So you find yourself looking up from the postern house steps and pressing healing ward a lot?

I find myself looking for people to beam and needing to heal their attacks.

Maybe the solution here is a bit obvious...but wouldn't moving one of those skills have prevented this "accident"?

OdinForge · July 2016

Lyar09 wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Robbmrp wrote: »

Lyar09 wrote: »

You all have voiced your opinions but really need a reality check and need to chill. Anything in this game that is deemed to "not working as intended" is an exploit. I'm sure every last one of you at this point has used something that wasn't working as intended. Malubeth, nirn back in 1.6, the axe bleed....the list goes on and on. I don't really blame the players for this issue. It's 100% zos and it's sad that it takes them 3-6 months to "fix" said exploits.

@Lyar09 while I agree with you that at some point everyone has used an exploit, I disagree with you that it's ALL Zenimax's issue. Yes, Zenimax made the skill and has to fix it but It's a personal choice to use a skill that a player knows full well shouldn't be doing what it does. Just because it's in the game not working correctly doesn't mean that we should use it. That's a choice that we have to make.

Any player making the choice to use the exploits is taking that chance that they could possibly get action taken against then. Possibly even banned. They know that full well going into their choices and still choose do use the exploit. I don't feel sorry for them. I pity them really. That they had to make that decision when they could have easily chosen not to. A bunch of us in the game don't use these broken mechanics for that specific reason. It's our choice.

Fixing these kinds of things take time unfortunately. The problem is we live in a day and age where we expect things to be done NOW, NOW, NOW. Waiting for something is just unheard of and a burden to us. I am with you on the game fixes and wish they could be done sooner than later but the fact remains, it will get fixed when it's ready and been tested.

Yah the main issue is the players that have the goal of using exploits or anything for an advantage.

Only point about your post past that is direction. In this case direction toward one of them, if you know what I mean. They (he) don't care, they will keep doing it and doing it.

The reason why they all fall back on it's 100% ZOS' fault (or in their case ZOS's fault because they don't understand grammar at all, even in their own names).. well the reason simply is that if it's 100% ZOS' fault is 0% their fault. Blame shifted, innocence established.

Fact is that those that exploit as policy need to go. They need to be banned and they need be banned permanently. They are well aware of what they are doing, made evident by their endless attempting to shift blame from themselves to anything else.

You are constantly insinuating that I am a cheater. Get over yourself. I haven't once used this exploit or any for that matter, yet you continue to call me out. Still waiting on the so called shuffle exploit video by the way. Haven't heard much about shuffle these days and there were no changes in any patch notes about it. What's your claim now? This guilt by association mentality you have is immature and asinine.

What's your deal? Did I 1vX you or something?

At this point I'm convinced you never will see evidence of people "shuffle exploiting" because it never existed, it was just an excuse for people like him to cling to to try and explain why they can't kill strong Templars. It was just the most obvious thing people like Rfennell could come up with,"he uses this and I don't" so somehow this is the culprit. Tons of videos about ult hacking etc came out, even from people who've barely used YouTube. But no videos of people shuffle dodging 100% of attacks thrown at them.

He spent months in the shuffle / animation cancel threads, trying to argue without any evidence or even logic. Blatantly throwing up misinformation and an obvious lack of understanding. Once the CE thing came to light he used it as the opportunity to switch gears slightly, instead of being blatantly wrong about game mechanics he doesn't understand he switched to spewing misinformation about CE, another topic he has zero experience or understanding in and no authority to comment about.

Unfortunately there is no ban for spewing garbage and misinformation on the forums, so he's free to run around and accuse people without supporting evidence.

Satiar · July 2016

I think people are getting so hung up on the details of gap closing up walls and such that they're missing what the actual problem was: griefing. No one is going to get banned for gap closing into a keep, cmon this is Zenimax. But what started this thread is a pretty clear example of griefing with unintended mechanics merely being the cherry on top.

rfennell_ESO · July 2016

Lyar09 wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Robbmrp wrote: »

Lyar09 wrote: »

You all have voiced your opinions but really need a reality check and need to chill. Anything in this game that is deemed to "not working as intended" is an exploit. I'm sure every last one of you at this point has used something that wasn't working as intended. Malubeth, nirn back in 1.6, the axe bleed....the list goes on and on. I don't really blame the players for this issue. It's 100% zos and it's sad that it takes them 3-6 months to "fix" said exploits.

@Lyar09 while I agree with you that at some point everyone has used an exploit, I disagree with you that it's ALL Zenimax's issue. Yes, Zenimax made the skill and has to fix it but It's a personal choice to use a skill that a player knows full well shouldn't be doing what it does. Just because it's in the game not working correctly doesn't mean that we should use it. That's a choice that we have to make.

Any player making the choice to use the exploits is taking that chance that they could possibly get action taken against then. Possibly even banned. They know that full well going into their choices and still choose do use the exploit. I don't feel sorry for them. I pity them really. That they had to make that decision when they could have easily chosen not to. A bunch of us in the game don't use these broken mechanics for that specific reason. It's our choice.

Fixing these kinds of things take time unfortunately. The problem is we live in a day and age where we expect things to be done NOW, NOW, NOW. Waiting for something is just unheard of and a burden to us. I am with you on the game fixes and wish they could be done sooner than later but the fact remains, it will get fixed when it's ready and been tested.

Yah the main issue is the players that have the goal of using exploits or anything for an advantage.

Only point about your post past that is direction. In this case direction toward one of them, if you know what I mean. They (he) don't care, they will keep doing it and doing it.

The reason why they all fall back on it's 100% ZOS' fault (or in their case ZOS's fault because they don't understand grammar at all, even in their own names).. well the reason simply is that if it's 100% ZOS' fault is 0% their fault. Blame shifted, innocence established.

Fact is that those that exploit as policy need to go. They need to be banned and they need be banned permanently. They are well aware of what they are doing, made evident by their endless attempting to shift blame from themselves to anything else.

You are constantly insinuating that I am a cheater. Get over yourself. I haven't once used this exploit or any for that matter, yet you continue to call me out. Still waiting on the so called shuffle exploit video by the way. Haven't heard much about shuffle these days and there were no changes in any patch notes about it. What's your claim now? This guilt by association mentality you have is immature and asinine.

What's your deal? Did I 1vX you or something?

Anyone who has seen him can just pretend there is a still a lol button.

OdinForge wrote: »

Edited by OdinForge

And to the defense, the shadiest of the shady!

Would it surprise anyone that the thread title applies to both in the last week?

I'm betting it won't.

covenant_merchant · July 2016

Okay, so now using an in-game mechanic that ZOS messed up wayyyyyy back on PTS and has been reported (and instantly removed) with video evidence on forums is comparable to using cheat engine.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom I am now curious as to what exactly your stance on cheating/exploiting is? On a scale from Cyrodiil's primetime FPS to the number of meteors you get in your face from cheat engine users, how severe would you rate the "crit rushing into keeps" abuse?

I mean, you were aware of its existence for ages, hell you even banned the thread which illustrated it over a month and a half ago, and now every player cleverly using broken in-game mechanics to their advantage could be banned retroactively for this?

"published 28th May 2016". Great job on taking action so swiftly \o/

zyk · July 2016

Rubixy wrote: »

If i leap into a keep and kill people and get banned from it so be it, take flight is litteraly made to that, if u dont want me in there, dont act like idiots on the ledge. With how overpowered siege is at the moment strategic infultration into keeps is fine by me.

Translation: "WHATEVA. I DO WHAT I WANT!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLPM-P7mNQw

Sandman929 · July 2016

kasa-obake wrote: »

Okay, so now using an in-game mechanic that ZOS messed up wayyyyyy back on PTS and has been reported (and instantly removed) with video evidence on forums is comparable to using cheat engine.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom I am now curious as to what exactly your stance on cheating/exploiting is? On a scale from Cyrodiil's primetime FPS to the number of meteors you get in your face from cheat engine users, how severe would you rate the "crit rushing into keeps" abuse?

I mean, you were aware of its existence for ages, hell you even banned the thread which illustrated it over a month and a half ago, and now every player cleverly using broken in-game mechanics to their advantage could be banned retroactively for this?

"published 28th May 2016". Great job on taking action so swiftly \o/

Oh....it's was "clever" exploitation. Well, that's different.

Sallington · July 2016

I don't know how this could be considered an exploit. You literally just target an enemy and press your gap closer button.

If ZOS doesn't want it to work like that, then, I don't know.... fix it maybe?

yodased · July 2016

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/278031/cyrodiil-cheating-exploiting-you

sirrmattus · July 2016

Does dragon leap count? I mean, it is wings and you do fly a far ass distance, i need to know, cause if your gona get banned for leaping up to someone on the edge of a keep, then just get rid of the skill!

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Heike · July 2016

sirrmattus wrote: »

Does dragon leap count? I mean, it is wings and you do fly a far ass distance, i need to know, cause if your gona get banned for leaping up to someone on the edge of a keep, then just get rid of the skill!

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Yes. Per ZOS, DragonLeap was never intended to be used to fly up a keep wall, nor from the outer wall to the inner wall.

Father_Of_Vape · July 2016

I have talked with the person perma banned for this. He was given no warning that this was officially labeled an exploit by ZOS, since he does not read the forums very much and it was literally communicated like 0 times to anyone who does NOT read the forums a lot. He was given no warning before he was banned. Just instant

Just some common misconceptions about this person to clear his name a tiny bit since I have talked to him

Not banned for griefing
No he did not use a friend to gap close in

There you have it folks ZOS takes exploits very seriously thats why they let it go live
Just another day at Zenimax Studios

yodased · July 2016

You mean you ARE the person? I mean when you have a guild called Vape Nation you may not want to create a forum account called Father_of_Vape, but thats none of my business

Cinnamon_Spider · July 2016

Sandman929 wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

MoreDino wrote: »

How does one go about looking up and pressing your gap closer hotkey accidentally? Usually I'm aware enough to know what keybinds are my range attacks/defensive abilities.

On my Templar, I have Healing Ward in slot 3 and then Toppling Charge in the same spot on my other bar. There have been a number of times where swap has failed and I've charged someone instead of casting ward. With lag, this can happen.

So you find yourself looking up from the postern house steps and pressing healing ward a lot?

I find myself looking for people to beam and needing to heal their attacks.

Maybe the solution here is a bit obvious...but wouldn't moving one of those skills have prevented this "accident"?

Why should I move skills around that I've had in place for years in the off chance a bar swap fails?

Sandman929 · July 2016

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

MoreDino wrote: »

How does one go about looking up and pressing your gap closer hotkey accidentally? Usually I'm aware enough to know what keybinds are my range attacks/defensive abilities.

On my Templar, I have Healing Ward in slot 3 and then Toppling Charge in the same spot on my other bar. There have been a number of times where swap has failed and I've charged someone instead of casting ward. With lag, this can happen.

So you find yourself looking up from the postern house steps and pressing healing ward a lot?

I find myself looking for people to beam and needing to heal their attacks.

Maybe the solution here is a bit obvious...but wouldn't moving one of those skills have prevented this "accident"?

Why should I move skills around that I've had in place for years in the off chance a bar swap fails?

So you don't accidentally exploit a game mechanic that is broken. Because it was accidental, right?